While reading a bit about Sorcerer change...

[wizturbo]

I tend to believe Delirium that the current policy is just "No", but I hope that can be revisited.

[Beethoven]

I tend to believe Delirium that the current policy is just "No", but I hope that can be revisited.

Likewise. It removes some wonder from the game to know this isn't possible under any circumstances, which is why I prefer to believe in that spark of hope: that if you do just well enough, the staff just might consider it. Denial? Probably. But it's just depressing for me to think that it can never happen again, period. It's such a crucial point of flavor in the game that sorcery, the most powerful magick in Zalanthas, is learned, and that certain power hungry individuals will seek out that power despite the consequences. I like the idea that you can kind of imitate this with the sorcerer subguilds, but I really do want to think that this thing can happen at a crossroads in a character's life rather than it having to be planned from the very start.

[Riev]

Basically, what I'm getting from the current discussion now is "I sure wish the game world worked the way I assume it would work."

Much as I hate to believe what Delerium says on point alone, she's right. This isn't the 40person game that lets a few people work on cool stories or be awesome at PvP. Gone are the days of bribing virtual camps of humans, taking them as slaves, or carrying around trunks full to the brim with obsidian coins. We're kind of at the point now where everyone either fights in the arena, dies to NPC mobs, or gets butthurt because someone tried to/succeeded in killing them. Want an RPT? Better not have anyone die. Should just have singing and drinking, because anything beyond that is going to rile up the (now) much larger playerbase into chasing "that one plot".

Sorcerors were this exact plot. The WHISPER of a full sorceror anywhere caused half the game to start into hunting mode, because anyone playing as a guild_sorceror was either a staffer, or an ex-staffer, with the occasional special application. Now, these staffer/ex-staffer avatars are a little less powerful as a whole, but you might never know who they are. Cue sudden mon un disintegrate life when you're mudsexing.

[Beethoven]

Basically, what I'm getting from the current discussion now is "I sure wish the game world worked the way I assume it would work."

Yeah, kind of, and I admit as much.

[HavokBlue]

I tend to believe Delirium that the current policy is just "No", but I hope that can be revisited.

Likewise. It removes some wonder from the game to know this isn't possible under any circumstances, which is why I prefer to believe in that spark of hope: that if you do just well enough, the staff just might consider it. Denial? Probably. But it's just depressing for me to think that it can never happen again, period. It's such a crucial point of flavor in the game that sorcery, the most powerful magick in Zalanthas, is learned, and that certain power hungry individuals will seek out that power despite the consequences. I like the idea that you can kind of imitate this with the sorcerer subguilds, but I really do want to think that this thing can happen at a crossroads in a character's life rather than it having to be planned from the very start.

This is why I am saying if you choose to have a PC pursue this goal, you should do so with the OOC assumption that it will probably not result in your PC getting magick. And if it does? You can be pleasantly surprised and happy. And if it doesn't, you aren't let down.

[Beethoven]

Oh yeah, I'd definitely have that OOC assumption, as I've said before, but I'm not willing to give up my faint, childish spark of hope.

[Riev]

Basically, what I'm getting from the current discussion now is "I sure wish the game world worked the way I assume it would work."

Yeah, kind of, and I admit as much.

And I don't blame you a bit. Telling people that "sorcery isn't something you're born with, its something you acquire" in a roleplaying game... you can't fault a player for assuming it CAN be acquired.

[HavokBlue]

You can also acquire the ability to shoot a bow or climb a pile of rubble 

[Jihelu]

Wait a minute.

You can't even get certain non magick skills in game if you ask nicely/try to do it ic.

Oh god muh glass ceiling or something.

[valeria]

Sorcerors were this exact plot. The WHISPER of a full sorceror anywhere caused half the game to start into hunting mode, because anyone playing as a guild_sorceror was either a staffer, or an ex-staffer, with the occasional special application the game lore says that everyone hates and hunts sorcerers.

Fixed to add more benefit of the doubt! 

[Riev]

Sorcerors were this exact plot. The WHISPER of a full sorceror anywhere caused half the game to start into hunting mode, because anyone playing as a guild_sorceror was either a staffer, or an ex-staffer, with the occasional special application the game lore says that everyone hates and hunts sorcerers.

Fixed to add more benefit of the doubt! 

Nyaaahhhh!


Also, I have no specific qualms about the glass ceiling, its just hard to blame players (veteran or newbie) for believing that "it can be done". Though it reminds me of an old Malifaxis quote that is around somewhere... something about wanting to be the Mario of Plumbing, but really you're just Joe the Plumber. (Might have been about subguilds though)

[Talia]

Kind of a side note, but it IS related to the discussion of sorcerers: We do have a number of 8-karma players who are not on staff and have never been on staff. High-karma characters are not exclusively or even mostly played by staff or ex-staff in this era.

[Eurynomos]

And, playing on Staff isn't a guarantee of 8K, especially after leaving Staff. When I went to Legend most recently, my player account had not been magically bumped to 8K for me. It remained at its former level (25 karma, duh).

[Clearsighted]

Kind of a side note, but it IS related to the discussion of sorcerers: We do have a number of 8-karma players who are not on staff and have never been on staff. High-karma characters are not exclusively or even mostly played by staff or ex-staff in this era.

Armageddon is in a good place, lately. Although, I don't think enough people appreciate the fact that the sorcerer changes actually made them more powerful, and more playable, and more likely for a greater number of people to stick with it. It's no longer a 'Plainsman or Bust' model.

You have a legitimate chance of playing out a whole other life, that is invulnerable to guild sniffing, more or less.

[Delirium]

Subguild sniffing, the new guild sniffing.

[HavokBlue]

I like to pretend I have skills I don't have

"yeah you bet your fuckin ass I put an arrow in that motherfucker. oh, you uh, want me to take out that cilops? sorry man all out of arrows"

[Clearsighted]

I like to pretend I have skills I don't have

"yeah you bet your fuckin ass I put an arrow in that motherfucker. oh, you uh, want me to take out that cilops? sorry man all out of arrows"

It's funny because there really are PCs who have made entire careers out of this without ever having to back it up. Much like IRL, I suppose.

[Shoka Windrunner]

I always wished, for people who already had the karma, that they would have the option to opt in that their character MIGHT develop Elementalist powers. Probably some smaller subset of whatever element. (Like 2-4 spells down one branch or something)

Then have it random every character bday or activated by a watching staff during an appropriate piece of RP.

Just thought, it would be interesting to suddenly discover Sergeant Hardbutt is a Vivaduan and didnt know it until most of their unit is lying bleeding and dying on the floor.

Way more than becoming a sorcerer really. 

Edit: I kind of always saw this as how it manifested anywho.

[Barzalene]

Like a lottery of bad things!

[wizturbo]

Like a lottery of bad things!

Seriously. If you develop them, it's probably because something horrible happened.

[Barzalene]

I love the idea that you could opt in and maybe someday you'll find yourself with these abilities and liabilities you didn't ask for or expect. It might never happen. It might happen on a pc you really didn't want it to happen to. Or it might happen with a pc who bored you and suddenly there's a new aspect of play.
Like a bad things lottery.

[Rokal]

I always wished, for people who already had the karma, that they would have the option to opt in that their character MIGHT develop Elementalist powers. Probably some smaller subset of whatever element. (Like 2-4 spells down one branch or something)

Then have it random every character bday or activated by a watching staff during an appropriate piece of RP.

Just thought, it would be interesting to suddenly discover Sergeant Hardbutt is a Vivaduan and didnt know it until most of their unit is lying bleeding and dying on the floor.

Way more than becoming a sorcerer really. 

Edit: I kind of always saw this as how it manifested anywho.

This would be cool. THough i think its been mentioned before and people werent to keen on the idea.

[Beethoven]

I'm keen on it.

[Case]

Without trying to get myself moderated, there is at least one means of learning how to become a sorcerer I am aware of. It would require extreme luck. I know because I got that lucky once. It wasn't staff supported either.

The odds aren't great and you'd probably need a break. I think for people interested, it'd be something to premediate but they may need the karma to meet the current sorc subguilds anyway.

The rest of what is suggested regarding elementalists and partial manifestation is difficult for code reasons. It'd be a project to implement. There's a lot of entrenched cruft in the way guilds and skills work. Maybe if the partial elementalists had to gather mana too? That'd be one step to making it easier to code, if they were sorcs with an elemental bent.

[Clearsighted]

Without trying to get myself moderated, there is at least one means of learning how to become a sorcerer I am aware of. It would require extreme luck. I know because I got that lucky once. It wasn't staff supported either.

The odds aren't great and you'd probably need a break. I think for people interested, it'd be something to premediate but they may need the karma to meet the current sorc subguilds anyway.

The rest of what is suggested regarding elementalists and partial manifestation is difficult for code reasons. It'd be a project to implement. There's a lot of entrenched cruft in the way guilds and skills work. Maybe if the partial elementalists had to gather mana too? That'd be one step to making it easier to code, if they were sorcs with an elemental bent.

I'm 99.99% certain this isn't in the game anymore, if it's what I think it is. I'm pretty sure all current methods require staff support.