There's a problem with money in the game

[Tetra]

The inner workings of Nenyuk are not really something we can delve into on the GDB but when you consider that the any Great Merchant House has vastly more money than the highborn and Nenyuk manages all that money in both cities, they're not just pushovers who count your coins for you. Their biggest opponents in either city state are going to be Kassigarh and Valika respectively, and even those houses are going to operate as carefully as they can in regards to Nenyuk.

Yes, but this is all extremely vague and virtual. Frankly, the "Nenyuk takes all the commoners' money because they keep it when the commoners die" is a shallow story made to justify the current workings of banking & money within the game. If/when the banking system is altered, there's no reason it could not be retconned or clarified.

Saying Nenyuk keeps all te money in the accounts of dead commoners isn't shallow, or a story.  It's exactly what happens.

That's not the point. The point is it isn't 2008 anymore. There's no reason it couldn't change, suitable IC and document changes alongside, if there were good reason for it to.

Let me ask you a serious question.  Why would it change?  What interest would Nenyuk have in not seizing obsidian where they can?

The simple answer is, they wouldn't.  They are in the business of amassing wealth.  Why this is a point of contention at all is confusing.

[hyzhenhok]

The inner workings of Nenyuk are not really something we can delve into on the GDB but when you consider that the any Great Merchant House has vastly more money than the highborn and Nenyuk manages all that money in both cities, they're not just pushovers who count your coins for you. Their biggest opponents in either city state are going to be Kassigarh and Valika respectively, and even those houses are going to operate as carefully as they can in regards to Nenyuk.

Yes, but this is all extremely vague and virtual. Frankly, the "Nenyuk takes all the commoners' money because they keep it when the commoners die" is a shallow story made to justify the current workings of banking & money within the game. If/when the banking system is altered, there's no reason it could not be retconned or clarified.

Saying Nenyuk keeps all te money in the accounts of dead commoners isn't shallow, or a story.  It's exactly what happens.

That's not the point. The point is it isn't 2008 anymore. There's no reason it couldn't change, suitable IC and document changes alongside, if there were good reason for it to.

Let me ask you a serious question.  Why would it change?  What interest would Nenyuk have in not seizing obsidian where they can?

The simple answer is, they wouldn't.  They are in the business of amassing wealth.  Why this is a point of contention at all is confusing.

It would change because the people in charge of the game decided they thought the game would be better if it changed. I don't see what is so hard to understand about this. If they decided it made sense and would help the game, they could make the T'zai Byn the clan with militia powers and give every rinthi PC templar magick. Compared to other changes we have seen over the last couple years, changing Nenyuk's docs would be a very, very minor thing. Nenyuk does currently not touch most PCs besides being a magickal 100% safe lockbox that also teleports your money between cities. It wouldn't be a big deal.

There's nothing to contend here. Some veteran GDB wranglers are trying to score points with the "You can't change it because that would be changing it." I'm aware of the old IC explanation for what Nenyuk is and what is does. It isn't sacred.

[bardlyone]

Look, cut the value of skinned hides and bone by 50%, same with harvested flower parts.

Much simpler solution, and will concentrate money away from people who shouldn't be wealthy. Same as the changes to salting did.

There's absolutely 0 need to do a ticket system, and not only would it not make sense or be necessary, but half the people complaining are the ones creating the problems they complain about. Full stop.

I'm tired of my rich commoner, I'm tired of my rich commoner.

Alright, so don't go out and manipulate your 15 years of game world knowledge to exploit every loophole to make 10X what 90% of the rest of the playerbase would make in the same scenario.

It's literally that simple.

[HavokBlue]

I'm going to start a chart and make tallies every time someone busts out the 'YOU JUST DON'T WANT CHANGE' line. I think it comes up once a thread now.

Consider for a moment that not only does capping commoner accounts make about zero sense ICly, but that it doesn't accomplish what you want in game.

What happens when you cap bank accounts?

- Nobody creates a Lesser Merchant House.
- People do more stupid shit like carry three extra bags because they rolled high strength.
- People horde money in their apartments.

Wait a minute... People horde money in their apartments... Which means when they die, it remains in circulation... Which means... The overall amount of coin in circulation perpetually increases... decreasing the perceived value of coins?... I thought we were trying to increase the importance of money! Whoops!

I'm with Patuk. Money is a part of power, but not the main part.

Nenyuk's a private contractor of the Allanaki state, handling matters (housing, banking, storage) that the Templarate cannot be arsed to do on their own. It operates at the Templarate's pleasure. It would be economically disruptive to axe Nenyuk and let another house take in, but not impossible.

I view Nenyuk as an analogue to medieval proto-banks like the Jewish communities and the Knights Templar - independent, autonomous, and wealthy (or at least perceived to be), but only so long as the state finds them convenient. On several occasions nobles would cancel all the debts held by Jews and expel them as a means of placating a riotous populace. The Knights Templar were likewise destroyed when, after losing military relevance, the French state desired their holdings.

I'd be skeptical of Nenyuk documents presenting them as "more powerful than any highborne." Nenyuk was last open back in the Halastur and Sanvean days, right? Back then it sounds like any clan that a Staff took a particular interest in had documents prone to wankery. It would give them a grossly outsized position in the game world.

Nenyuk isn't more powerful than any highborne. They are wealthier than any highborn. In the context of the game world (beyond just PCs) wealth translates to a fair amount of power. Look at House Kassigarh in the north. They went from being bottom-rung nobodies to the top of the ladder absolutely rolling in dosh. It's plainly stated that they can make or break other groups with their wealth.

[Clearsighted]

I'm going to start a chart and make tallies every time someone busts out the 'YOU JUST DON'T WANT CHANGE' line. I think it comes up once a thread now.

Consider for a moment that not only does capping commoner accounts make about zero sense ICly, but that it doesn't accomplish what you want in game.

What happens when you cap bank accounts?

- Nobody creates a Lesser Merchant House.
- People do more stupid shit like carry three extra bags because they rolled high strength.
- People horde money in their apartments.

Wait a minute... People horde money in their apartments... Which means when they die, it remains in circulation... Which means... The overall amount of coin in circulation perpetually increases... decreasing the perceived value of coins?... I thought we were trying to increase the importance of money! Whoops!

I'm with Patuk. Money is a part of power, but not the main part.

Nenyuk's a private contractor of the Allanaki state, handling matters (housing, banking, storage) that the Templarate cannot be arsed to do on their own. It operates at the Templarate's pleasure. It would be economically disruptive to axe Nenyuk and let another house take in, but not impossible.

I view Nenyuk as an analogue to medieval proto-banks like the Jewish communities and the Knights Templar - independent, autonomous, and wealthy (or at least perceived to be), but only so long as the state finds them convenient. On several occasions nobles would cancel all the debts held by Jews and expel them as a means of placating a riotous populace. The Knights Templar were likewise destroyed when, after losing military relevance, the French state desired their holdings.

I'd be skeptical of Nenyuk documents presenting them as "more powerful than any highborne." Nenyuk was last open back in the Halastur and Sanvean days, right? Back then it sounds like any clan that a Staff took a particular interest in had documents prone to wankery. It would give them a grossly outsized position in the game world.

Nenyuk isn't more powerful than any highborne. They are wealthier than any highborn. In the context of the game world (beyond just PCs) wealth translates to a fair amount of power. Look at House Kassigarh in the north. They went from being bottom-rung nobodies to the top of the ladder absolutely rolling in dosh. It's plainly stated that they can make or break other groups with their wealth.

Good post overall, but to nitpick one isolated comment: I don't see using one's strength to carry extra bags counting as stupid shit. It's completely IC and logical to take advantage of one's greater strength to make their life easier. High wisdom characters, as far as I know, don't agonize about needing less fails to advance. High endurance characters don't agonize about having more stamina and being able to walk farther.

[RogueGunslinger]

Look, cut the value of skinned hides and bone by 50%, same with harvested flower parts.

Much simpler solution, and will concentrate money away from people who shouldn't be wealthy. Same as the changes to salting did.

There's absolutely 0 need to do a ticket system, and not only would it not make sense or be necessary, but half the people complaining are the ones creating the problems they complain about. Full stop.

I'm tired of my rich commoner, I'm tired of my rich commoner.

Alright, so don't go out and manipulate your 15 years of game world knowledge to exploit every loophole to make 10X what 90% of the rest of the playerbase would make in the same scenario.

It's literally that simple.

Nothing is that simple. First off, if you think people are getting rich off of bones, hides and flowers, I'm going to have to say you're wrong. If anything there's more money to be made in cooking skinned meats. But that's beside your point, which is that people who know the system should stop exploiting it to gain an advantage and the economy will be fine. That will simply never happen. You can't just say "stop doing A" and expect that to be enough incentive to stop people from trying to gain an advantage over others. That's not how people work. Competition is very deeply ingrained in many people. They will use any advantage they can if it's within the games rules(or not). Therefore if you want people to change the way they play the game, you must change the way the game can be played.

And guess what, staff are already doing that. Changes to forage code made it so there's no more bundles of purplish salts for salters to get rich on. It's a good start, but I don't think we'll be seeing any nerfs to skins/bones/herbalist merchants because those fucking merchants accept too little as is.

Know what usually rustles my jimmies? Subguild crafters selling gem-encrusted combs for bank, or woodworkers crafting up chests to sell willynilly, or how about tailors bringing it ridiculous coins... And they all do it "on the side" or keep it a secret from everyone while they mainly roleplay being dirty, gritty Bynners or some shit. Those are the types of things I can't help but roll my eyes at. Salters, and food-cookers, and those people who know exactly what sort of items to buy and sell to make a profit in different places across the known never bothered me as much as those types.

[Clearsighted]

Look, cut the value of skinned hides and bone by 50%, same with harvested flower parts.

Much simpler solution, and will concentrate money away from people who shouldn't be wealthy. Same as the changes to salting did.

There's absolutely 0 need to do a ticket system, and not only would it not make sense or be necessary, but half the people complaining are the ones creating the problems they complain about. Full stop.

I'm tired of my rich commoner, I'm tired of my rich commoner.

Alright, so don't go out and manipulate your 15 years of game world knowledge to exploit every loophole to make 10X what 90% of the rest of the playerbase would make in the same scenario.

It's literally that simple.

Nothing is that simple. First off, if you think people are getting rich off of bones, hides and flowers, I'm going to have to say you're wrong. If anything there's more money to be made in cooking skinned meats. But that's beside your point, which is that people who know the system should stop exploiting it to gain an advantage and the economy will be fine. That will simply never happen.

Oh my. If only there was a way to encourage people to eat all that cooked meat they're racking up huge profits with, rather than selling it!

[Tetra]

The inner workings of Nenyuk are not really something we can delve into on the GDB but when you consider that the any Great Merchant House has vastly more money than the highborn and Nenyuk manages all that money in both cities, they're not just pushovers who count your coins for you. Their biggest opponents in either city state are going to be Kassigarh and Valika respectively, and even those houses are going to operate as carefully as they can in regards to Nenyuk.

Yes, but this is all extremely vague and virtual. Frankly, the "Nenyuk takes all the commoners' money because they keep it when the commoners die" is a shallow story made to justify the current workings of banking & money within the game. If/when the banking system is altered, there's no reason it could not be retconned or clarified.

Saying Nenyuk keeps all te money in the accounts of dead commoners isn't shallow, or a story.  It's exactly what happens.

That's not the point. The point is it isn't 2008 anymore. There's no reason it couldn't change, suitable IC and document changes alongside, if there were good reason for it to.

Let me ask you a serious question.  Why would it change?  What interest would Nenyuk have in not seizing obsidian where they can?

The simple answer is, they wouldn't.  They are in the business of amassing wealth.  Why this is a point of contention at all is confusing.

It would change because the people in charge of the game decided they thought the game would be better if it changed. I don't see what is so hard to understand about this. If they decided it made sense and would help the game, they could make the T'zai Byn the clan with militia powers and give every rinthi PC templar magick. Compared to other changes we have seen over the last couple years, changing Nenyuk's docs would be a very, very minor thing. Nenyuk does currently not touch most PCs besides being a magickal 100% safe lockbox that also teleports your money between cities. It wouldn't be a big deal.

There's nothing to contend here. Some veteran GDB wranglers are trying to score points with the "You can't change it because that would be changing it." I'm aware of the old IC explanation for what Nenyuk is and what is does. It isn't sacred.

It's not hard to understand that elements of the game change.

It's hard to understand why you think it would be advisable or in any way connected to changing the value of money in-game.  Nenyuk holds money, it has little connection to outlets you can spend your money on.

[BadSkeelz]

Well this did add all those new taste and smell echoes...

Re: Havok's point about carrying bags of 'sid, I think he was lampshading how people would start prioritizing strength on their merchant just so they could carry all their coins around in bags (which has a couple of problems with it).

Nenyuk isn't more powerful than any highborne. They are wealthier than any highborn. In the context of the game world (beyond just PCs) wealth translates to a fair amount of power. Look at House Kassigarh in the north. They went from being bottom-rung nobodies to the top of the ladder absolutely rolling in dosh. It's plainly stated that they can make or break other groups with their wealth.

As far as we know everything Kassigarh accomplished was with the permission of the Templarate. Kassigarh's wealth would not let them stand up to the actual state, just like Valika in the south couldn't simply buy their way to victory if they somehow came into conflict with the Templarate. The banking houses have enough 'sid to fuck with players cause all of our characters are pretty inconsequential. This doesn't mean the banking houses are actually that powerful in the grand scheme of things.


Man I should get off the GDB and get back to work and start playing Arm and stop worrying about esoteric features of the game that amount to jackall in actual gameplay terms.

[bardlyone]

Know what usually rustles my jimmies? Subguild crafters selling gem-encrusted combs for bank, or woodworkers crafting up chests to sell willynilly, or how about tailors bringing it ridiculous coins... And they all do it "on the side" or keep it a secret from everyone while they mainly roleplay being dirty, gritty Bynners or some shit. Those are the types of things I can't help but roll my eyes at. Salters, and food-cookers, and those people who know exactly what sort of items to buy and sell to make a profit in different places across the known never bothered me as much as those types.

I don't really mind this so much as people who play pcs whose looks are totally divorced from their lifestyle. (I don't give a damn if you want to play an fme with perfect pale skin and ample breasts and no muscle tone - just don't be a warrior/thug in the byn and get beat on for 6 IC years and not change your desc to reflect it. Same as extremely muscular pcs who are actually merchant and nothing about them reflects or explains it, etc.) That said, with regard to the point you initially made about people and advantages, next time people are advocating making the game harder for new pcs, think about all the newbie posts about surviving long enough to join a clan being a major goal, or not knowing how to do, well, anything, and how you would survive in that situation if you didn't have years and years of meta experience. I dunno. Someone's fond of playing devils advocate. That someone is me.

[In Dreams]

I don't know where people are getting the idea that salt grebbing gets you rich. Maybe if you play 16 hours a day and don't mind spamming forage while trying not to fall asleep from boredom you can do okay.

Remember, not everyone has the availability to even play every day. People with the time and inclination to pour 40 hours a week into acquiring wealth on Arm are naturally going to wind up being rich. I understand those players probably want a more challenging experience when it comes to wealth.

But those of us who don't have that kind of time to pour into the game either take lots of risks to stay afloat or may have spent quite a bit of their time struggling to make the rent. When those players are struggling, guess what they don't get the time to do anymore? RP freely and interact!

Please consider everyone - not just the most hardcore and experienced group of Arm codemasters out there.

[Asmoth]

I don't know where people are getting the idea that salt grebbing gets you rich. Maybe if you play 16 hours a day and don't mind spamming forage while trying not to fall asleep from boredom you can do okay.

Remember, not everyone has the availability to even play every day. People with the time and inclination to pour 40 hours a week into acquiring wealth on Arm are naturally going to wind up being rich. I understand those players probably want a more challenging experience when it comes to wealth.

But those of us who don't have that kind of time to pour into the game either take lots of risks to stay afloat or may have spent quite a bit of their time struggling to make the rent. When those players are struggling, guess what they don't get the time to do anymore? RP freely and interact!

Please consider everyone - not just the most hardcore and experienced group of Arm codemasters out there.

And this is exactly why salting can make you rich, because if it took hardcore playing then it would penalize the part time players and that's not right.

[MeTekillot]

Weren't the noble families in the middle ages exorbitantly rich because they were land owning and tax collecting? I feel like a lot of the problems with the Armageddon economy are because it was established by a teenager who designed the MUD, and only minimally added to by a series of people, few if any of them with economics or historical degrees geared toward economics. I know that Armageddon's history is nothing like real world history, but it seems we draw from the real-world for inspiration so I think it bears looking at how economics worked and continue to work if we want to figure out how we can make Armageddon's economy somewhat realistic while still fun.

[Clearsighted]

magick

[HavokBlue]

To my knowledge, the noble houses receive income two ways. The houses are issued stipends by the city government in exchange for services rendered to the city state. This is likely supplemented by income generated by the unique specialty of each house.

The city can afford to issue stipends because everything is being taxed. Water is being taxed. Every family of clothspinners or band of swords for hire are being taxed. The merchant houses, small and great, are being taxed. I imagine even the noble houses pay taxes and families like Valika and Kassigarh benefit from their involvement in this process on many levels. Borsail, for example, can't beat down a bunch of commoners under the guise of 'tax collection' but Valika might be able to swing it.

One area where it gets tricky is individual wealth. The average Oashi might have more money in his account than the average Salarri, but whereas the total worth of House Oash might be 2,000,000 coins, House Salarr might be worth 20,000,000.

[Jeshin OR]

Having not played Arm seriously in 2 years (ish?) I'll just have to base this off my tangential knowledge through chitchatting about such things and previous play. On a previous character I had something like... I don't know 130,000 sid which I ended up using as bribes and paying off entities in game. I don't mean tiny bribes either, I'm talking like 60,000 bribes to templars. This character was a ranger with no like crafting skills. This was all made via foraging... FORAGING. It was also all made via NPCs.

All that money meant pretty much nothing. I just ICly assumed that any noble/gmh was technically more wealthy than me. Obviously I knew most sponsored roles were paupers compared to me but money is relatively worthless in Armageddon. The documents and manner in which the staff enforce the gap between commoner, GMH, and noble negates the value of coin. Those massive bribes and payoffs probably didn't improve my character's situation. People still probably wanted to kill him. People probably still didn't care if he died. The only thing that money did was make people hope I lived long enough to hand it to them and then tripped on my way out the door and broke my neck.

TLDR - Money is worthless because even if sponsored roles are poor compared to you. The NPCs and VNPCs behind them would gladly off you if you even remotely insult them. Because that's the kind of game Armageddon is. Only place money can buy you power is with PCs and even there it's limited.

[Suhuy]

I believe that if items broke down with greater frequency, if weapons snapped and broke apart (as bone and wood and obsidian rightfully should), if armor degraded quickly, and other items had a very obvious point of expiration, you'd increase the demand for items and also for spending. Playing a leader can be disappointing when you find out the minions you want to reward already have.. everything.

I played a soldier once who bought a super fancy sword from a Salarri merchant. Rode out onto the North Road and the sword immediately broke the instant I hit a gortok. First hit ever and it broke. Now it was probably an extremely random fluke, almost like winning the lottery, but it allowed for some fun RP with Salarr, demanding my money back (there was no code to leave me with a broken sword, but I RPed it as virtual and the PC merchant went along with it). If this were a more regular threat to swordsmen, hunters, etc., suddenly all your Richer than Noble characters are going to need to spend money often enough that 'obscene wealth' isn't that obscene anymore.

Plus it would help match the storyline of Zalanthas, which is items are significantly more faulty in a world without (much) metal.

[aeglaeca]

This character was a ranger with no like crafting skills. This was all made via foraging... FORAGING. It was also all made via NPCs.

You're the reason the markets have no coin for everyone else >:[

[Rokal]

I believe that if items broke down with greater frequency, if weapons snapped and broke apart (as bone and wood and obsidian rightfully should), if armor degraded quickly, and other items had a very obvious point of expiration, you'd increase the demand for items and also for spending. Playing a leader can be disappointing when you find out the minions you want to reward already have.. everything.

I played a soldier once who bought a super fancy sword from a Salarri merchant. Rode out onto the North Road and the sword immediately broke the instant I hit a gortok. First hit ever and it broke. Now it was probably an extremely random fluke, almost like winning the lottery, but it allowed for some fun RP with Salarr, demanding my money back (there was no code to leave me with a broken sword, but I RPed it as virtual and the PC merchant went along with it). If this were a more regular threat to swordsmen, hunters, etc., suddenly all your Richer than Noble characters are going to need to spend money often enough that 'obscene wealth' isn't that obscene anymore.

Plus it would help match the storyline of Zalanthas, which is items are significantly more faulty in a world without (much) metal.

This in of itself is the problem of the economy on a player level - supply and demand.

Since things last so long, there is a supply but no demand, people get something. I believe things should wear out quicker and require maitenence.

Arm's economy could do much better - and while I agree with other posters that Arm ISNT an economic simulator, Economy is also a vital part of society - it can effect every aspect of society in critical and impacting ways, and in that way I feel it could have a bit of a bigger part in armageddon - its mostly virtual and should stay that way, but I feel the merchant houses PCs and plots could effect that - demands for various things going up or down, say Salaar sends people up north to get lots ofwood to supply the market with wooden weapons or gear -- the price would eventually go down some due to supply being high and demand being less. This is just a rough and unlikely example - but its definetly something to think of.

That said, in my experience with RPs - doing such a thing requires a -lot-. .. lot lot of work to set up and keep track - its one thing to do this in a table top setting focused around a group of 6-8 PCs that change the world - way different for something the scale of armageddon. So thats why its probably not a thing - TOO much workload, I know this from experience. x.x;

[CodeMaster]

There is this neat game called Nethack that some of you are probably familiar with.  It is like Arm in the sense that, once you've "mastered" it, it's relatively easy (but it is insanely hard to master, especially without spoilers).  Experienced Nethack players deal with this by imposing challenges on themselves called conducts.

[Patuk]

Weren't the noble families in the middle ages exorbitantly rich because they were land owning and tax collecting? I feel like a lot of the problems with the Armageddon economy are because it was established by a teenager who designed the MUD, and only minimally added to by a series of people, few if any of them with economics or historical degrees geared toward economics. I know that Armageddon's history is nothing like real world history, but it seems we draw from the real-world for inspiration so I think it bears looking at how economics worked and continue to work if we want to figure out how we can make Armageddon's economy somewhat realistic while still fun.

Not really, no.

Medieval nobility wasn't that rich in the material sense of jewels, gold, and so forth. Instead, their wealth came more from labour. Medieval taxes were usually not levied in money as they are today, but in actual agricultural produce. A castle to live in, weapons and armour, and a personal army don't cost money as much as they do labour, which was just about free for someone who could tax produce at their leisure. Merchanting and banking families in Medieval ages may have been richer, but they were also of far lower status, not to mention military power.

It's almost as if.. As if some societies don't operate on money being the main sign of power. Woah, man.

Arm slightly differs in this in the sense of nobles not being fief holders, which means their wealth isn't concentrated in grain to dole out to retainers. Maybe some families own farming villages, and you could argue noble stipends have the same effect, but it is different nonetheless.

[Eyeball]

It's almost as if.. As if some societies don't operate on money being the main sign of power. Woah, man.

Nevertheless, this is irrelevant to what I was trying to say. There's no reason money couldn't be made more useful in the game, by providing things for common characters to aim for, aspire to, and eventually buy. This could be done without challenging the nobility. It could expand what common characters could achieve. It could provide a way to express a very common and powerful emotion, namely greed, in game. (If you believe this motive doesn't exist on Zalanthas, look at how characters are always trying to buy the best from Salarr and show it off). It could make common characters more responsive and motivated when presented with bribes, rewards and prizes.

[Shoka Windrunner]

Possible solutions to help the rich PC problem:

Make food cost a lot more.  Then make it so people might have to go greb in a midden heap to find cockroaches to eat or something so they can survive.  Make a merchant that sells piss to drink.  Give them a reason to buy those cheaper rotting fruits.

Give even less sid for raw materials and basic crafting materials.  But buy more of it.  Why? Cause the merchants dont give a feck if its fair or reasonable and if you dont like it then feck off and starve.

Entry to the city costs sid or materials. You have to buy a pass to get back in. Cheaper if you buy before you leave then to buy on your way in.  Dont have enough? Then you better greb enough shit to barter for it. And we arent paying you shit for it. We got enough useless fecks like you inside and we dont fecking care if you feed the scrabs. At least a scrab can feed someone.

House Nenyuk takes half when you deposit. Yup, half. Cause feck you. Carry your sid on you and some elf will come deposit your sid for you.

Make armor and weapons cheaper...or I should say make available cheaper armor and weapons and make the good stuff more expensive. The cheap affordable stuff is crap and breaks easily and doesnt do much in the way of killing power.

If you are in a militia or clan or gmh, you get no funds. We supply you with basic gear and give you better as you are promoted, feed you, give you a place to sleep and you better be happy you arent eating cockroaches to survive.  Maybe if we feel nice, we will buy you some ale. Maybe if we agree to bribe that templar, we will give you the funds to do so.

Make a couple of templar pcs that do nothing but tax people. Constantly.  Dont have any sid? Fine. Give me your boots. That fancy cloak. That bottle of ale. Give it to me. Or die. Wouldnt bother that guy with nothing but trousers and whose starving, cause feck it, he will be dead soon.


EDIT:  the middle-aged man is being halfway facetious.

[Molten Heart]

One issue I see is that resources are abundant and there's not enough players to use the resources so most of them get sold to NPC merchants. This creates a lot of extra money that's not being spent. What could be done is to make some of the resources less accessible requiring more roleplay to obtain, but keep them obtainable. Also, create more things to spend that money on, both for struggling characters of low skill, for skilled underlings who have all the gear they need, and for leader PCs who want to progress their plots.

[bardlyone]

Possible solutions to help the rich PC problem:

Make food cost a lot more.  Then make it so people might have to go greb in a midden heap to find cockroaches to eat or something so they can survive.  Make a merchant that sells piss to drink.  Give them a reason to buy those cheaper rotting fruits.

Give even less sid for raw materials and basic crafting materials.  But buy more of it.  Why? Cause the merchants dont give a feck if its fair or reasonable and if you dont like it then feck off and starve.

Entry to the city costs sid or materials. You have to buy a pass to get back in. Cheaper if you buy before you leave then to buy on your way in.  Dont have enough? Then you better greb enough shit to barter for it. And we arent paying you shit for it. We got enough useless fecks like you inside and we dont fecking care if you feed the scrabs. At least a scrab can feed someone.

House Nenyuk takes half when you deposit. Yup, half. Cause feck you. Carry your sid on you and some elf will come deposit your sid for you.

Make armor and weapons cheaper...or I should say make available cheaper armor and weapons and make the good stuff more expensive. The cheap affordable stuff is crap and breaks easily and doesnt do much in the way of killing power.

If you are in a militia or clan or gmh, you get no funds. We supply you with basic gear and give you better as you are promoted, feed you, give you a place to sleep and you better be happy you arent eating cockroaches to survive.  Maybe if we feel nice, we will buy you some ale. Maybe if we agree to bribe that templar, we will give you the funds to do so.

Make a couple of templar pcs that do nothing but tax people. Constantly.  Dont have any sid? Fine. Give me your boots. That fancy cloak. That bottle of ale. Give it to me. Or die. Wouldnt bother that guy with nothing but trousers and whose starving, cause feck it, he will be dead soon.

Am I really the only one who thinks that the above sounds both ridiculous and awful as fuck?