Prettiness Guilt

[BadSkeelz]

Ah, I see. Yeah, I don't mean ignore them OOCly. No point in hating something if you don't let them know you hate them.

But, as you know, there's unfortunately  no real downside to being friendly with the Gemmed or other undesirables. Especially the kinds with useful skills. That's where negative reinforcement is needed: to remind the playerbase of the docs.

Now, those supermodels you were complaining about?

^ And then the sexy human supermodels go around hugging elves, because why not?

If someone was to subdue them into an alley and slit some noses and force a description change... Yeah, that might get the message across: "Don't kank elves." Intimidate the too-friendlies and you'll intimidate the undesirables, they knowing that they can be next. The real challenge will be trying to weather the storm of white-knighting that blows back from that sort of thing. That's why I like Templars and Nobles to enforce these sort of docs from the top down. They're powerful enough to bring the true grit and harshness of Zalanthas without overly exposing themselves.

[In Dreams]

Some of the horses being rode on my little thread here got awfully elevated!

On this board I often feel like certain people on those high horses just "see and judge" without really understanding what something like racism actually is, what it means, how it affects people, or most importantly, how it's most often carried out.

Generally it's not going to be obvious and overt if the subjects of the bigotry are wildly dangerous social outcasts.

[Revenant]

Personally, I find the "cuddling with elves" problem to be much less irritating than the "perfect 10" problem. I always try to give my characters flaws, serious, damning flaws, both physical and mental, but people always see beyond that. My characters don't need to be "pretty", it's their insides that are the real draw. It was a relief when the Atrium re-opened, as it siphoned most of the perfect, pretty people off into plotlines where their perfect prettiness belongs, well, mostly, and gave the rest of us some breathing room.

Yes, the Gaj is a bar for undesirables, as Badskillz said, there's even room echos to reinforce what kind of crowd is there, for a while, these were missing, I think it was detrimental to player perspective when the pissing breed went missing, but staff fixed that. Even then, there's still a push by the "pretty" crowd to make the Gaj something it isn't, whatever, I don't enjoy that kind of RP, I can find another location while someone else figures out why it's a good idea to stab these people mercilessly. They could go to Red's or whatever, but it's so much easier to throw your weight around with undesirables that I guess they spend their time in the Gaj ignoring that they likely stepped in breed poo on their way in. It'll fix itself, given time, I keep telling myself.

[RogueGunslinger]

Or maybe their players just want some social interaction and they saw Reds was empty.

[Harmless]

if someone is doing something inappropriate in the Gaj, it helps to have someone with power to back you up when you disagree with it.

If you're just another commoner, even if your hated enemy is a gemmed or a mutant, if you have NO FRIENDS and no status, then you're really not much better than them.

What matters in Allanak is clout, influence, connections. Your physical appearance will help you (or not) to get that; but that's what actually counts.

No newbie fresh out of creation has any actual power over other PCs, but some are better equipped to gain that social power than others. Conversely, if your goal is gain social clout/influence in the underbelly of Nak, and you're a mutant or an elf, you should have some luck making real friends in the rinth or perhaps in other places. But not everybody should be powerful and influential in the Gaj.

[Delirium]

I don't care if you're a newbie or a 100-day old character, vocalizing your disgust at freaks being freaky should not get you ostracized.

Can you do anything but bitch? Maybe not. But if the rest of the virtual tavern crowd was being animated I'm sure they'd agree.

I feel like there's a disconnect between what people understand of the actual, living breathing (virtual) gameworld and their own microcosm of PC culture, where the world is and feels a lot smaller because there's only 100+ people instead of 10,000+ people. I don't care how well-connected your gemmed is, if the vNPC population was being represented properly you still wouldn't want to be holding hands with your lover at the bar - not just for your own sake, but for fear of reprisals against your mate. When I played a gemmed I felt like the population was a lot more circumspect about mingling with the playerbase. We socialized (usually at a table, rarely at the bar) but we sure as hell didn't try to shove our freaky ways in their faces.

[Barzalene]

If everyone who should be at Reds was at Reds they could socialize with each other.

If it were up to me, and its not, I'd take the plaza outside Reds, put in more benches, a statue, a clue of flowers  cactus. An outdoor space seems like a more organic place for interclass interaction.

[Barzalene]

But we'd need to mind the weather.

[Harmless]

I don't care if you're a newbie or a 100-day old character, vocalizing your disgust at freaks being freaky should not get you ostracized.

Can you do anything but bitch? Maybe not. But if the rest of the virtual tavern crowd was being animated I'm sure they'd agree.

I feel like there's a disconnect between what people understand of the actual, living breathing (virtual) gameworld and their own microcosm of PC culture, where the world is and feels a lot smaller because there's only 100+ people instead of 10,000+ people. I don't care how well-connected your gemmed is, if the vNPC population was being represented properly you still wouldn't want to be holding hands with your lover at the bar - not just for your own sake, but for fear of reprisals against your mate. When I played a gemmed I felt like the population was a lot more circumspect about mingling with the playerbase. We socialized (usually at a table, rarely at the bar) but we sure as hell didn't try to shove our freaky ways in their faces.

I agree with this. I hope you're not taking my post to mean the opposite extreme -- I'm just stating the facts here.

[Alesan]

Pretty characters can exist in Zalanthas just like any other world. But it's probably a good idea to represent somehow the work it takes to keep that character pretty.

Now for the derail topic: I disagree that there's always a direct danger of stepping in breed shit on your way from the door to the bar. Or any shit for that matter. There's far more sand being tracked in and out of that bar than anything else. I'm going to guess it's mostly sand and spilled ale, with piss stains here and there. The shit's what gets tracked in from the dorms. Probably a negligible amount.

I don't know. Maybe some of us have fundamentally different ideas of what the Gaj really is. Are some of us really imagining people shitting in the middle of the floor on a daily basis? I get the breed pissing in the corner thing. I really do. I also imagine that breed catching the attention of some local and getting a good healthy beating because he's a breed, and he's pissing on the floor. A shitting breed would probably get a similar response. Are you really going to expose your ass in the Gaj, of all places?

Now I'm wondering just what the response would actually be if a breed took a shit in the middle of the floor. Future character plan...

[Barzalene]

Now for the derail topic: I disagree that there's always a direct danger of stepping in breed shit on your way from the door to the bar. Or any shit for that matter. There's far more sand being tracked in and out of that bar than anything else. I'm going to guess it's mostly sand and spilled ale, with piss stains here and there. The shit's what gets tracked in from the dorms. Probably a negligible amount.

I don't know. Maybe some of us have fundamentally different ideas of what the Gaj really is. Are some of us really imagining people shitting in the middle of the floor on a daily basis? I get the breed pissing in the corner thing. I really do. I also imagine that breed catching the attention of some local and getting a good healthy beating because he's a breed, and he's pissing on the floor. A shitting breed would probably get a similar response. Are you really going to expose your ass in the Gaj, of all places?

Now I'm wondering just what the response would actually be if a breed took a shit in the middle of the floor. Future character plan...

The amount of shit on the floor is not the point. The point is whether it is an appropriate place for various pcs. And it's more that status that determines it. If Lady Fufu likes to get away from the vapid flouncy shits and get a little rough on the side who's to say (except Lady Fufu.) But they need to accept  it as they find it. If they think it should be nicer, they're in the wrong bar.

As far as publicly fraternizing with undersirables, no. Not even with breed shit on the floor. It's anthetical to the game world.

[Alesan]

Now for the derail topic: I disagree that there's always a direct danger of stepping in breed shit on your way from the door to the bar. Or any shit for that matter. There's far more sand being tracked in and out of that bar than anything else. I'm going to guess it's mostly sand and spilled ale, with piss stains here and there. The shit's what gets tracked in from the dorms. Probably a negligible amount.

I don't know. Maybe some of us have fundamentally different ideas of what the Gaj really is. Are some of us really imagining people shitting in the middle of the floor on a daily basis? I get the breed pissing in the corner thing. I really do. I also imagine that breed catching the attention of some local and getting a good healthy beating because he's a breed, and he's pissing on the floor. A shitting breed would probably get a similar response. Are you really going to expose your ass in the Gaj, of all places?

Now I'm wondering just what the response would actually be if a breed took a shit in the middle of the floor. Future character plan...

The amount of shit on the floor is not the point. The point is whether it is an appropriate place for various pcs. And it's more that status that determines it. If Lady Fufu likes to get away from the vapid flouncy shits and get a little rough on the side who's to say (except Lady Fufu.) But they need to accept  it as they find it. If they think it should be nicer, they're in the wrong bar.

As far as publicly fraternizing with undersirables, no. Not even with breed shit on the floor. It's anthetical to the game world.

Well, I agree with the point. Just not with the extreme example given. I may have rambled on a bit in the process.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

If someone has lustrous hair, or nice teeth, I don't care.

Now if that someone has lustrous hair AND nice teeth, I'm going to do a double-take and check out the niceness of their clothing, any visible sigils, etc.

[BadSkeelz]

"Human teeth" are an in-game item.

I'm not saying you could subdue them and pry their pristine teeth out for crafting/reselling.

But theoretically you could.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

Also the amount of clothing and type they are wearing (seeing if they are a whore or an aide or something)

[Case]

Gaj isn't -that- bad in its descriptions

[In Dreams]

I always figured the Gaj was just standard fare for grubby, dusty, low-class etc. The room echoes I kind of assume are on par for most commoner areas, so none of it would be super shocking or disgusting.

It's not like 90% of people even get to bathe ever.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

The breed pissing in the corner would thereafter be beaten and kicked out. The Gaj is scummy, but it's not actually a latrine. It's just that it caters to the worst of the worst.

[BadSkeelz]

Neither the pissing breed nor the woman who projectile vomits bile seem to illicit a reaction from the crowd.

That begging breed girl better gtfo out tho.

[Alesan]

Neither the pissing breed nor the woman who projectile vomits bile seem to illicit a reaction from the crowd.

That begging breed girl better gtfo out tho.

If we all respected the representation the in-game echoes create, no rinthi PCs would be allowed to drink in the Gaj ever. Yet they are. All the time.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'd either adjust expectations of what the Gaj actually allows or ask that staff clarify the crowd the Gaj caters to and then create proper echoes to replace the ones in existance.

Personally, I don't  think the owner of the Gaj gives a shit who is in there. I do think he cares if somebody pisses in the corner. I'd adjust the pissing echo to reflect that fellow getting either the boot, or Ven's cudgel.

[In Dreams]

I don't care if you're a newbie or a 100-day old character, vocalizing your disgust at freaks being freaky should not get you ostracized.

Maybe not, but I think most sane people would think that person was suicidal or stupid if they were openly trying to anger and incite the local flamethrowers, fingerwigglers, thieves and cutthroats if they just happen to be minding their own business at the moment. Granted, plenty of PCs aren't sane, but I imagine most of the general populace is.

I know there's a school of thought that every elf and gemmer should be covered in snot and spittle and hateful language the moment they come into view, but like I pointed out in a previous post, the type of person who openly does that would probably not have a very long lifespan.

In fact, I'm fairly certain there's quite a bit of recent IC history that'll speak volumes regarding this sort of thing.

[Delirium]

There's a world of difference between 'minding your own business at the bar' and 'doing something egregiously out of the ordinary that invites reaction'.

I think if you read through my posts I'm not suggesting the extreme you're referring to.

[RogueGunslinger]

I don't care if you're a newbie or a 100-day old character, vocalizing your disgust at freaks being freaky should not get you ostracized.

Maybe not, but I think most sane people would think that person was suicidal or stupid if they were openly trying to anger and incite the local flamethrowers, fingerwigglers, thieves and cutthroats if they just happen to be minding their own business at the moment. Granted, plenty of PCs aren't sane, but I imagine most of the general populace is.

I know there's a school of thought that every elf and gemmer should be covered in snot and spittle and hateful language the moment they come into view, but like I pointed out in a previous post, the type of person who openly does that would probably not have a very long lifespan.

In fact, I'm fairly certain there's quite a bit of recent IC history that'll speak volumes regarding this sort of thing.

My only problem with this post it the way you're lumping undesirables together. they should hate eachother just as much as normal people hate them. The gemmed shouldn't be backed up by breeds or elves in social situations, and vice-versa.

[LauraMars]

The Red's Retreat isn't really all that nice.