Prettiness Guilt

[In Dreams]

My only problem with this post it the way you're lumping undesirables together. they should hate eachother just as much as normal people hate them. The gemmed shouldn't be backed up by breeds or elves in social situations, and vice-versa.

I don't think I intended to write anything about their relationship with one another. Sorry if I was unclear in some way, but I don't see that from reading it over again.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

The Red's Retreat isn't really all that nice.

Yeh, it's not the Traders. But it's not too bad either. I -do- wish they'd enforce the idea that some people shouldn't go in with a bouncer, though.

[Armaddict]

The Red's Retreat isn't really all that nice.

Yeh, it's not the Traders. But it's not too bad either. I -do- wish they'd enforce the idea that some people shouldn't go in with a bouncer, though.

Another recent thread.  Pretty much agree with the post from that thread that says anyone -can- go into Red's.  They just need to be ready for the idea that a noble or templar could come in at any time and have them tossed out.  Anyone beyond a noble or templar, though, and I think you're pretty safe.

The idea of aides having people thrown out of Red's is pretty weird to me.  Again.  Smackdab in the middle of the commoner's quarter.  Smells like a slaughterhouse.  Not that nice.  Undesirable npc's already set up in it.  Gambling and games upstairs.  It's not a high class place, and shouldn't be policed as such.

That place is created in the form of the Arboretum and the Tor Academy.  You will be in trouble for being the wrong person in there.

[RogueGunslinger]

My only problem with this post it the way you're lumping undesirables together. they should hate eachother just as much as normal people hate them. The gemmed shouldn't be backed up by breeds or elves in social situations, and vice-versa.

I don't think I intended to write anything about their relationship with one another. Sorry if I was unclear in some way, but I don't see that from reading it over again.

Very likely me interpreting and extrapolating incorrectly, my bad.

[valeria]

The Red's Retreat isn't really all that nice.

Yeh, it's not the Traders. But it's not too bad either. I -do- wish they'd enforce the idea that some people shouldn't go in with a bouncer, though.

Like with the silk thing, who is allowed in there seems to vary based on the pc population's desires and enforcement.  And I'm fine with that.

[Delirium]

People should hang out in the Gaj because they want to be an actual lower-class Joe blow commoner not because they want to rub elbows with the worst the city has to offer (that's what the bars in the 'rinth are for). They want to be dirty mercenaries and conniving southside elves and bloody hunters and dusty grebbers. Or that gemmed in the corner table looking scary.

Getting pushed out of the Gaj into the Red, well, the current problem is that if you spend too much time in the Red's and sooner or later a bored noble is going to pay attention to you, and probably try to yank you out of the wonderfully lower-class existence you've crafted for your character. The Red's is supposed to be a lower-class bar with a middle-class attitude - that's the place where Merchant House Family, aides, relatively well to do commoners and merchants hang out. Not bored nobles looking for interaction (though I sympathize with them).

We really need to expand the Arboretum so that nobles are more inclined to hang out there. A quit room (totally OOC, doesn't have to be a dorm) so that nobles don't have to walk across the city wnen it's time to log out, and an expanded menu - those two things would go a long way toward making it an actual central hangout for nobles.

Signed, on behalf of the
Git Yer Nobles Outta My Low-Class Bar Coalition

[Talia]

The Allanak tavern situation is fine. We are not going to change it. It's OK for nobles to slum at Red's. They don't do it a lot, but it's OK if they do. They have lots of other places to hang out in Allanak as well, both public and semi-public. We are not going to move toward an environment where there are zero places that nobles and regular commoners might interact; we are already very clear with noble players that they shouldn't be in the Gaj, so if you want a safe zone, that's where it is.

[Barzalene]

People should hang out in the Gaj because they want to be an actual lower-class Joe blow commoner not because they want to rub elbows with the worst the city has to offer (that's what the bars in the 'rinth are for). They want to be dirty mercenaries and conniving southside elves and bloody hunters and dusty grebbers. Or that gemmed in the corner table looking scary.

Getting pushed out of the Gaj into the Red, well, the current problem is that if you spend too much time in the Red's and sooner or later a bored noble is going to pay attention to you, and probably try to yank you out of the wonderfully lower-class existence you've crafted for your character. The Red's is supposed to be a lower-class bar with a middle-class attitude - that's the place where Merchant House Family, aides, relatively well to do commoners and merchants hang out. Not bored nobles looking for interaction (though I sympathize with them).

We really need to expand the Arboretum so that nobles are more inclined to hang out there. A quit room (totally OOC, doesn't have to be a dorm) so that nobles don't have to walk across the city wnen it's time to log out, and an expanded menu - those two things would go a long way toward making it an actual central hangout for nobles.

Signed, on behalf of the
Git Yer Nobles Outta My Low-Class Bar Coalition

Nobles have no damn business hanging in the Gaj. None. If you need something at the Gaj., send a commoner to fetch it.

[LauraMars]

A quit room (totally OOC, doesn't have to be a dorm) so that nobles don't have to walk across the city wnen it's time to log out, and an expanded menu - those two things would go a long way toward making it an actual central hangout for nobles.

Agree the Arboretum needs a quit room at the very least and more stuff on the menu.

[Delirium]

Well we used to have a bar where commoners and nobles could hang out. It was called the Trader's Inn.

It wasn't right smack dab in the center of the Commoner's Quarter either.

It also kept out those disgusting low-life commoners that shouldn't be interacting publicly with nobles. Which IIRC was elves and anyone with dirty clothes.

[valeria]

A quit room (totally OOC, doesn't have to be a dorm) so that nobles don't have to walk across the city wnen it's time to log out, and an expanded menu - those two things would go a long way toward making it an actual central hangout for nobles.

A quit room and a guard loading room would make a difference in how much time I'd spend there as a noble.  Or just having the existing ones flagged really.

Agree the Arboretum needs a quit room at the very least and more stuff on the menu.

[Barzalene]

Reds is a better balance. It sucked sitting alone at Traders. It's not perfect. But its better.

[Delirium]

People sat alone at the Trader's because the playerbase wasn't consolidated enough.

Allanak is absolutely packed these days.

I'm not suggesting rebuilding the Traders' (though that'd be great) I'm saying that a public place for nobles to noble that isn't in the commoner's quarter would make WAY more sense.

edit:
I guess I miss the days when there were just three taverns in Allanak proper. The Gaj, the Barrel, the Trader's. It made sense, the social strata and expectations were clear.

It was good game design. The only flaw was that we didn't have enough players in Allanak to do it justice.

[LauraMars]

People sat alone at the Trader's because the playerbase wasn't consolidated enough.

Allanak is absolutely packed these days.

I'm not suggesting rebuilding the Traders' (though that'd be great) I'm saying that a public place for nobles to noble that isn't in the commoner's quarter would make WAY more sense.

edit:
I guess I miss the days when there were just three taverns in Allanak proper. The Gaj, the Barrel, the Trader's. It made sense, the social strata and expectations were clear.

It was good game design. The only flaw was that we didn't have enough players in Allanak to do it justice.

Completely agree.

[BadSkeelz]

It tickles me that the Azure Dragon, which does seem legitimately swank and exclusive, is completely absent from this conversation. Granted, it does suffer the same "problem" as the Red's by being in the Commoner's Quarter (along with 2 Oash compounds, the Tor Academy, and a Borsail barracks).

[Synthesis]

It tickles me that the Azure Dragon, which does seem legitimately swank and exclusive, is completely absent from this conversation. Granted, it does suffer the same "problem" as the Red's by being in the Commoner's Quarter (along with 2 Oash compounds, the Tor Academy, and a Borsail barracks).

Just because you're employed by a Noble House doesn't mean you're not still a filthy peasant.  I.e. that's where those compounds belong.

[Talia]

It tickles me that the Azure Dragon, which does seem legitimately swank and exclusive, is completely absent from this conversation. Granted, it does suffer the same "problem" as the Red's by being in the Commoner's Quarter (along with 2 Oash compounds, the Tor Academy, and a Borsail barracks).

The Azure Dragon isn't a tavern. It used to be a wine shop, then it was built into a tavern (through PC effort), then it was burned down (during an HRPT), then it was re-built into a wine shop (through PC effort). So it's now not a tavern and isn't going to be a tavern.

[BadSkeelz]

It sells booze and has a place to sit and you can theoretically socialize there. That's close enough to a tavern for me.

Unless staff are going to animate the mercenaries and have them subdue-drag people off the bar and throw them out.

[Delirium]

It's a tasting bar, not a tavern. I guess that could get a bit confusing but it's a totally different vibe.

You go there to try before you buy and schmooze a bit with the owners, but you don't go there to party and get krunk.

[BadSkeelz]

I guess I'm viewing it through the lens of a place in my town that bills itself as a wine tasting bar, but always has an animated (if relatively subdued) crowd and smells disconcertingly of sex.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I think that just making the balcony of the Arboretum a quit room would do just fine. No need for any building to be done. I don't remember the menu there, but if it could be expanded, I'm betting that there's at least one Allanak clan with players that could make that happen, if not two or three.

Player plots,  baby. They can be big or small.

[Delirium]

^ What that guy said.

[LauraMars]

I'd love it if that guard would let noble house employees through too, its always such a pain to have to get up and let people in when you're playing a noble and tell your servant to bring you and your noble friends some ACTUAL FOOD to eat.

[Tetra]

The Red's Retreat isn't really all that nice.

Exactly.  It would probably be considered quaint or decidedly mediocre on a noble's standard.

Kind of like going into Boston Pizza.  Comfortable enough but rather low brow.

[Kismetic]

I'd love it if that guard would let noble house employees through too, its always such a pain to have to get up and let people in when you're playing a noble and tell your servant to bring you and your noble friends some ACTUAL FOOD to eat.

Because of that one time an aide let's an undesirable through the door, and the place has to be doused in cleaning fluid.