Prettiness Guilt

[Jeshin OR]

Having played with Path I can confirm she is always pretty but she balances it out with playing excellent breeds... I think they were breeds... Crazy people?

[ShaLeah]

The only PC I was ashamed of prettiness wise was a Borsail sex slave that wasn't only pretty but gag-me-with-a-silver-spoon erotic too. I threw up a little in my mouth every time I read that desc.

[TheWanderer]

if being pretty is a crime, you're guilty

STOP RIGHT THERE, CRIMINAL SCUM! YOU'VE STOLEN MY HEART!


there's my suave aod sarge app, cavat. get back to me soon.

[Jingo]

Can confirm: Ugly chicks get hit on just as much.

[Synthesis]

Can confirm: Ugly chicks get hit on just as much.

Who can tell, when she never takes her helmet off?

*rimshot*

[Tetra]

Also keep in mind that while there are traits which are universally considered attractive(such as symmetry and healthy-looking features like hair/teeth), beauty can and has always been a largely subjective thing.

I have had more than one ugly-pretty character; it's up to the observer to decide which end of the spectrum my PC leans towards, based on what their character finds attractive.

[Bast]

Who cares? I flip flop some pcs look prettier by my standards than others..and I roll d4 for my bust size....I think its just a sexist when players say your being a fme for having a pc with boobs and hips. Possibly because I'm busted Irl and makes want to kick them in the teeth.

[manonfire]

It's probably because most PCs that are written to accentuate tits and ass and god look at those cuuuuurves omg aayyy u wanna visit poundtown bb bring basically nothing to the game other than mind-numbingly dull pre-mudsex tavern chatter or gigglefit cuddlepuddle roleplay, which is the opposite of how things should be done in this game.

But hey, that's just my opinion. If you wanna roll up a supermodel in a harsh desert environment, you go right on ahead.

[Delirium]

It's probably because most PCs that are written to accentuate tits and ass and god look at those cuuuuurves omg aayyy u wanna visit poundtown bb bring basically nothing to the game other than mind-numbingly dull pre-mudsex tavern chatter or gigglefit cuddlepuddle roleplay, which is the opposite of how things should be done in this game.

But hey, that's just my opinion. If you wanna roll up a supermodel in a harsh desert environment, you go right on ahead.

^ And then the sexy human supermodels go around hugging elves, because why not?

I wish I was joking. Stop that you crazy people. Or at least hide your shame behind closed doors and don't act surprised at the ridicule.

[whitt]

^ And then the sexy human supermodels go around hugging elves, because why not?

I wish I was joking. Stop that you crazy people. Or at least hide your shame behind closed doors and don't act surprised at the ridicule.

Yep.  I think the ridicule and ostracizing is more lacking then the PK'ing.  But it could be worse, there have been some pretty impressive looking mutants lately they could be cuddling up against.

[John]

I'd rather be known as a mutant fucker then an elf fucker. At least a mutant has a chance of having three boobs or something.

[Delirium]

^ And then the sexy human supermodels go around hugging elves, because why not?

I wish I was joking. Stop that you crazy people. Or at least hide your shame behind closed doors and don't act surprised at the ridicule.

Yep.  I think the ridicule and ostracizing is more lacking then the PK'ing.  But it could be worse, there have been some pretty impressive looking mutants lately they could be cuddling up against.

The worst is when you get white-knighted or social backlash for speaking out AGAINST the elf-huggers, the Total Drama cuddlepuddles, or the blatant chauvinism... I've been on the verge of player complaints so many times. On the one hand, I don't want to be a whiny tattletale, but on the other hand, they're not going to be taught better if they keep getting away with it.

[Synthesis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JjVPiDLdH4

[nauta]

The worst is when you get white-knighted or social backlash for speaking out AGAINST the elf-huggers, the Total Drama cuddlepuddles, or the blatant chauvinism... I've been on the verge of player complaints so many times. On the one hand, I don't want to be a whiny tattletale, but on the other hand, they're not going to be taught better if they keep getting away with it.

I recognize this feeling, but I don't know if it is quite as bad as you make it out to be.  What consoles me is:

a) that the IG powers that be -do- represent the docs and -won't- hire these sorts of people, so at worst the miscreants are stuck at the Gaj, Gajjing it up with the Gajians, Gaj-style - their capacity to do anything about it is is quite limited, and it can all be written off as the depravity of Gaj life.

b) that eventually people just catch on - I mean who hasn't been OOC'd by that giant with the polite message that their penis is actually way too large for what you plan on doing with it?  It might take a while, but it's part of the newbie experience to come to think "Eww elf."  

[Delirium]

That's what I keep trying to tell myself. Still, the more egregious stuff is hard to ignore.

[Delirium]

One thing that bugs me is that the Gaj is supposed to be the "commoner's commoner" bar. A real-world equivalent is a republican sports bar.

It's the Gladiator and Gaj - full of T'zai Byn and commoners, I'm not sure when the shift happened but it seems like the playerbase has turned it into "the place where the undesirables hang out". Rather than "the place where the everyday common man goes to get the news and drink some swill." Elves and gemmed and mutants might show up, sure, but it shouldn't be the expectation or the norm that all sorts of undesirable depravity and cuddling happens and is simply glossed over or excused... it's still a 'Nakki commoner bar.

[BadSkeelz]

I think the reason you see undesirables in the Gaj, Delirium, is that the Gaj is the bottom of the barrel for the city at large. Mutants, Gemmed, and (non-rinthi) Elves don't want to go to the really seedy taverns in the Rinth because the rinth's dangerous.

That doesn't mean they aren't supposed to be in the Gaj. The room echos describe Gemmed, breeds, elfs and criminals being there, doing their thing. Undesirables have a place in the Gaj. I just wish there was a code for them to get randomly kicked into unconsciousness by suddenly-animated crowds of shitcloaks.

[Delirium]

I think the reason you see undesirables in the Gaj, Delirium, is that the Gaj is the bottom of the barrel for the city at large. Mutants, Gemmed, and (non-rinthi) Elves don't want to go to the really seedy taverns in the Rinth because the rinth's dangerous.

That doesn't mean they aren't supposed to be in the Gaj. The room echos describe Gemmed, breeds, elfs and criminals being there, doing their thing. Undesirables have a place in the Gaj. I just wish there was a code for them to get randomly kicked into unconsciousness by suddenly-animated crowds of shitcloaks.

In the last few years it's turned into that, yeah.

I get it, kind of. I'm not saying they shouldn't be there. Elves aren't an issue, generally, except if they're being snuggled by supermodels.

I'm saying there shouldn't be universal acceptance of cozy nonsense going on.

I'm saying that the outcasts of society should feel only marginally comfortable going to even a shithole like the Gaj, and that there is a difference between representing the degenerate nature of society's dregs versus acting like it's cuddlepuddle land where all the losers get along like a made-for-tv movie.

I'm saying that being a gemmed and showing up in the Gaj should be like showing up at a confederate bar as a black person in the 1960s.

I recognize that part of the problem is related to that other thread about antagonism; people don't seem to get how to play it interestingly and without escalating it to ridiculous proportions. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't try. It is hard to be the one who starts it when people white-knight all over you.

[BadSkeelz]

I'm saying that being a gemmed and showing up in the Gaj should be like showing up at a confederate bar as a black person in the 1960s.

I recognize that part of the problem is related to that other thread about antagonism; people don't seem to get how to play it interestingly and without escalating it to ridiculous proportions. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't try. It is hard to be the one who starts it when people white-knight all over you.

Unfortunately that model's not really supported by the room echoes or common sense. There's an echo of a Gemmed sitting the bar, which causes everyone else at the bar to relocate to a table. Gemmed are avoided, not antagonized. People aren't going to take a swing at a Gemmed because A) magick can destroy you and B) damaging one of the Templarate's most powerful tools is probably not going to go over well with any Templar who comes to investigate. Gemmed are inherently valuable. Commoners are not.

What we can do is follow the lead of the game world and disassociate our commoner PCs from Gemmed PCs. Take the lead in reminding the playerbase that Gemmed are supposed to be trusted and despised. Hopefully more PCs will be reminded and help reinforce the docs. Especially powerful PCs.

[RogueGunslinger]

I feel like my entire existence as a payer is to enforce these sort of racism and hate docs, because nobody else ever does. I never get to be an exception because I have to make up for so many other people doing it.

I see more people on the GDB shitting on the undesirable than I ever see in game. The problem is partly because the undesirables aren't really doing anything to make themselves a target. So I guess people feel like it's okay to be all "Yeah, elves suck but Sleeky isn't like most of them, he's funny and I'll be careful he don't steal from me, but I'm still going to treat him like a casual friend because hes useful."

[Barzalene]

I feel like my entire existence as a payer is to enforce these sort of racism and hate docs, because nobody else ever does. I never get to be an exception because I have to make up for so many other people doing it.

I see more people on the GDB shitting on the undesirable than I ever see in game. The problem is partly because the undesirables aren't really doing anything to make themselves a target. So I guess people feel like it's okay to be all "Yeah, elves suck but Sleeky isn't like most of them, he's funny and I'll be careful he don't steal from me, but I'm still going to treat him like a casual friend because hes useful."

Good you're here to pick up our slack

[Delirium]

I wasn't suggesting that you start brawling with Gemmed. Antagonism doesn't have to equal fist-fights. I would like to see the gemmed off in their own little corner interacting with each other instead of - you know what I'm reminded why I shoulda just stopped posting on the GDB nevermind.

Just nevermind. I'm going to turn into a broken record and start beating my head on the wall again.

[BadSkeelz]

Yeah, I don't really know what you want either. We can't kick the Gemmed out to some other bar - there isn't one. The only thing commoner PCs can do is shun and avoid them.

If you want something more, app a Templar and reinforce some social mores I guess.

[Taijan]

Upon careful review of the Karma help file (http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Karma), i think it's worth pointing out that well played racism and magicker hate can get you karma.

Just sayin'.  

[Delirium]

I'm frustrated because you keep picking bits of my posts to nitpick and/or make assumptions which either miss or ignore the overall point.

I never suggested we kick them out, I suggested that they should feel less comfortable than they often appear. This has been an ongoing trend for the last few years, save for an exception in which there was a movement by some gemmed a couple years ago to sit only at the tables, not the bar.

Sometimes it's worse, sometimes it's better, and I think we can always use a reminder that it's possible to discriminate without

a) completely ignoring them OOCly
b) starting a fight (physical or verbal)
c) some other type of overtly hostile escalated interaction

Emote that you're ignoring or moving away from them. Hemote or emote your lip twitching in disgust. Whisper disparaging things to your buddy. Refuse to do business with them if they're flagrantly breaking social mores. Gossip about their poor judgement to all of your friends.

I'm just pushing back against this whole phase of "gee, if I get along with people, that's better for my character" that many players go through. You really have to lead by example, and I guess it gets frustrating sometimes that leading by example occasionally brings about unrealistic consequences (when set against the backdrop of the documentation and the virtual world, not against the prevalent behavior of the playerbase).