Prettiness Guilt

[WarriorPoet]

I love to see ugly characters. I want to feel like your face is harassing me.

[Eyeball]

There are two sides to this coin. I've seen female leaders consistently treat male subordinates with more disrespect than their female subordinates.

How did your Sergeant deal with male characters who were actually able to kick her ass? There must have been one or two.

I'm not really sure what I'm being accused of here

I'm confused as to why the topic turned to the coded kicking of ass when what we are talking about is IC authority.

Because it sounds like your Sergeant exerted her authority in the most primitive way, namely threatening (or enacting) punishment for anything she didn't like based on her dominance in the ring. So how did she handle characters she couldn't use that on?

[MeTekillot]

If I were a leader and I was dealing with a guy who seemed insubordinate and could codedly take me 1-on-1, I'd just run a mini-RPT to have the whole clan stomp him to death.

[Is Friday]

There are two sides to this coin. I've seen female leaders consistently treat male subordinates with more disrespect than their female subordinates.

How did your Sergeant deal with male characters who were actually able to kick her ass? There must have been one or two.

I'm not really sure what I'm being accused of here

I'm confused as to why the topic turned to the coded kicking of ass when what we are talking about is IC authority.

Because it sounds like your Sergeant exerted her authority in the most primitive way, namely threatening (or enacting) punishment for anything she didn't like based on her dominance in the ring. So how did she handle characters she couldn't use that on?

Are you under the impression that military leaders shouldn't be authoritative and/or physical with their subordinates if something is awry?

Should illiterate professional soldiers reason with junior soldiers or give them a "I'm really disappointed" speech all the time?

[Eyeball]

There are two sides to this coin. I've seen female leaders consistently treat male subordinates with more disrespect than their female subordinates.

How did your Sergeant deal with male characters who were actually able to kick her ass? There must have been one or two.

I'm not really sure what I'm being accused of here

I'm confused as to why the topic turned to the coded kicking of ass when what we are talking about is IC authority.

Because it sounds like your Sergeant exerted her authority in the most primitive way, namely threatening (or enacting) punishment for anything she didn't like based on her dominance in the ring. So how did she handle characters she couldn't use that on?

Are you under the impression that military leaders shouldn't be authoritative and/or physical with their subordinates if something is awry?

Ideally, they lead by earning respect rather than by imposing fear. Those who impose fear or humiliate their subordinates shouldn't be surprised to find themselves resented or even rebelled against, is all.

[Is Friday]

Whose ideal is that, precisely?

As a leader of men who has educated, literate modern Americans I can tell you that some people just don't listen to reason. I've had to do some things, let's say.

edit because you editted:

Okay. Leaders don't have to be good leaders to be good characters. Leaders don't have to be well liked to be respected or effective, either. And I'm fairly sure the humiliation/degradation level for many Zalanthans will have a much higher threshold than a modern community who dislikes being frowned at.

[Tuannon]

Gimf's Sergeant was a great character.

IF's recent Sergeant was a great character, they were very similar in my opinion, but I didn't get the insider trading angle on one of them that I did for the other.

I remember that long lived Gimfy Sergeant being very loyal and very no-nonsense..

A well realized example of a militaristic character that people have aped or taken parts from since.

If people are imitating your role years after your role ended, that's a good sign of a good character.

ON TOPIC:

I like to get a rough idea of what a role looks like and what they should look like and then go for that. Although I didn't always do that and I have had had some woefully lore-breaking descriptions, at least in my opinion. If I'm playing Private Boots of the Winrothol Cavaliers, I'm usually gonna be some bandy legged dude with branch scars on his face.. or whatever.

[Is Friday]

Gimf's Sergeant was a great character.

IF's recent Sergeant Agent was a great character, they were very similar in my opinion, but I didn't get the insider trading angle on one of them that I did for the other.

I remember that long lived Gimfy Sergeant being very loyal and very no-nonsense..

A well realized example of a militaristic character that people have aped or taken parts from since.

If people are imitating your role years after your role ended, that's a good sign of a good character.

ON TOPIC:

I like to get a rough idea of what a role looks like and what they should look like and then go for that. Although I didn't always do that and I have had had some woefully lore-breaking descriptions, at least in my opinion. If I'm playing Private Boots of the Winrothol Cavaliers, I'm usually gonna be some bandy legged dude with branch scars on his face.. or whatever.

She was promoted, never forget.

[TheWanderer]

I don't mean to detract from a good character, but I'm pretty sure those characteristics are generally sought in -all- sergeants. I mean, I'm pretty sure there have always been loyal, no-nonsense leaders. It's a good way to get promoted.

[Tuannon]

I put my thoughts a bit in IFs leadership thread to save messing up this one.

[Gimfalisette]

Because it sounds like your Sergeant exerted her authority in the most primitive way, namely threatening (or enacting) punishment for anything she didn't like based on her dominance in the ring. So how did she handle characters she couldn't use that on?

You seem to be projecting something. This idea that my character had to threaten or punish for "anything she didn't like based on her dominance in the ring"? Why would you think that was the sum total of the way my character operated? Do you want data? You do, right?

Point 1: My recruit retention rate was in the range of 40% over the time that I played this character. Meaning, 40% of the recruits that I brought into the clan ultimately made it to full soldier. Anyone who has ever played a military leader in Armageddon knows that is a superlative number. (Typical is more like 15 to 25%.) It was this high because I am great at recruiting the right people, making a clan fun (on a daily basis via normal interaction, running RPTs, and in starting plots and projects), training and shaping minions, helping to develop other people's characters, and because I play great characters. Some of those who I recruited were with me for many IC years.

Point 2: Under my leadership, the AoD grew so big that we eventually split into two full units, each having their own Sergeant, the other Sergeant being someone I had brought in as a recruit and trained up. Yes, we had 2 Sergeants, 4 Corporals, and in the range of 10 full soldiers. Plus recruits.

Point 3: Other players (both minions and enemies) sent me a bunch of kudos for my roleplay with them, often referring to my leadership or hardass-ness or mastery of the art of the insult or evilness, but just as frequently talking about depth of character and fun and taking care of clannies and OOC helpfulness on the clan forums. Once in a later leadership role (Allanaki noble), I had to PK a minion, and the dude sent me kudos for it.



Playing a military leader in Armageddon also requires occasionally beating up minions (codedly and/or RPed), and sometimes killing them. Because Armageddon. But the assumption that because I mentioned once PKing a minion who was sexually harassing my character, I must have been continually being so harsh that my minions "rebelled" (lol)...nope.

[HavokBlue]

gimf data slam

[Eyeball]

You seem to be projecting something. This idea that my character had to threaten or punish for "anything she didn't like based on her dominance in the ring"? Why would you think that was the sum total of the way my character operated? Do you want data? You do, right?

EDIT: I wrote a reply to this, but decided to delete the content. You're proud of Sergeant Layla and there's no doubt it was an active and interesting time in the game, so I'll leave it at that.

[FantasyWriter]

Okay. Leaders don't have to be good leaders to be good characters. Leaders don't have to be well liked to be respected or effective, either. And I'm fairly sure the humiliation/degradation level for many Zalanthans will have a much higher threshold than a modern community who dislikes being frowned at.

Agreed. My favorite leader PC to play was absolutely horrible at his job.

[Clearsighted]

Because it sounds like your Sergeant exerted her authority in the most primitive way, namely threatening (or enacting) punishment for anything she didn't like based on her dominance in the ring. So how did she handle characters she couldn't use that on?

You seem to be projecting something. This idea that my character had to threaten or punish for "anything she didn't like based on her dominance in the ring"? Why would you think that was the sum total of the way my character operated? Do you want data? You do, right?

Point 1: My recruit retention rate was in the range of 40% over the time that I played this character. Meaning, 40% of the recruits that I brought into the clan ultimately made it to full soldier. Anyone who has ever played a military leader in Armageddon knows that is a superlative number. (Typical is more like 15 to 25%.) It was this high because I am great at recruiting the right people, making a clan fun (on a daily basis via normal interaction, running RPTs, and in starting plots and projects), training and shaping minions, helping to develop other people's characters, and because I play great characters. Some of those who I recruited were with me for many IC years.

Point 2: Under my leadership, the AoD grew so big that we eventually split into two full units, each having their own Sergeant, the other Sergeant being someone I had brought in as a recruit and trained up. Yes, we had 2 Sergeants, 4 Corporals, and in the range of 10 full soldiers. Plus recruits.

Point 3: Other players (both minions and enemies) sent me a bunch of kudos for my roleplay with them, often referring to my leadership or hardass-ness or mastery of the art of the insult or evilness, but just as frequently talking about depth of character and fun and taking care of clannies and OOC helpfulness on the clan forums. Once in a later leadership role (Allanaki noble), I had to PK a minion, and the dude sent me kudos for it.



Playing a military leader in Armageddon also requires occasionally beating up minions (codedly and/or RPed), and sometimes killing them. Because Armageddon. But the assumption that because I mentioned once PKing a minion who was sexually harassing my character, I must have been continually being so harsh that my minions "rebelled" (lol)...nope.

The great weakness of Armageddon, is that there is not enough of Gimf-caliber military leaders to go around. And I'm sure Gimf can also assert that it was an exhausting role. Honestly, the middle management of Armageddon society, as in real life (Hello Feds/US Army), is where the biggest impact is made by individuals, and where there's the biggest talent shortage.

Those that are great middle managers tend to either get promoted to upper management quickly, or get out.

It's also very sad to spend like 15 RL days PLAYTIME training someone up, mentoring and teaching them, and making them into a badass, then watching them get bored one night when you're not around, and die to something stupid. Which is another reason people eventually get burned out, and their retention rates start dropping from 40% to 25 or even 20%.

It takes something like 300% more effort, to raise your success rate from 25% to 40%. And many people just can't keep that up indefinitely.

[Case]

Leading 30+ PC RPTs as my female military leader was some of the most fun I had

You do have to invest a lot of time though.

[Riev]

Okay. Leaders don't have to be good leaders to be good characters. Leaders don't have to be well liked to be respected or effective, either. And I'm fairly sure the humiliation/degradation level for many Zalanthans will have a much higher threshold than a modern community who dislikes being frowned at.

Agreed. My favorite leader PC to play was absolutely horrible at his job.

So horrible, that people still loved him!

[Malifaxis]

I have so much to say on this thread, I don't even know where to start.

Gotta put order in my brain first, because it needs to be coherent.

(Obligatory fuck given here, so you all know it is actually me, and not an imposter.)

[Rhyden]

I love to see ugly characters. I want to feel like your face is harassing me.

I feel accomplished when people see my ugly char in game and cringe visibly/look away quickly/throw up on the nearest breed.

I do it for you, WP.

[ABoredLion]

Wait, I thought this was about Prettiness guilt? Anyhow. I think you gotta play for you at the end of the day. You can make your character attractive. Give them flaws though, within reason for whatever background you've written up. Don't have your super petite person with a background of boulder hauling, for example. If your character has any serious curvature, I might suggest a background where food or water wasn't a major concern. Characters with lean/sleek/toned/muscular/etc are going to be the average for the most part in my mind. Fat would be pretty attractive for most people. So you're not special for looking like a twig. You're special for looking like...a bit more curvy Monroe.

[Jihelu]

Remember kids, people in Zalanthas are stronk and made for this shit.

Everyone better have six packs.

[Bast]

Okay. Leaders don't have to be good leaders to be good characters. Leaders don't have to be well liked to be respected or effective, either. And I'm fairly sure the humiliation/degradation level for many Zalanthans will have a much higher threshold than a modern community who dislikes being frowned at.

Agreed. My favorite leader PC to play was absolutely horrible at his job.

I make a person and go from there. Obviously that person has to fit their job but no one is perfect they need to stumble sometimes.

[ibusoe]

I make a person and go from there. Obviously that person has to fit their job but no one is perfect they need to stumble sometimes.

Spoken like a boss. 

I had some misgivings about my last post on this topic, because there was something important that I wanted to say but had forgotten to, so I'm glad that someone revived this topic.

The thing about Armageddon is that at this point in the game's lifecycle, having more of pretty much any type of player is a boon for the game.  Different people play for different reasons and the GDB kids who like to represent their preferred playing style as the only correct style are something of a pill.  Diversity contributes as a (game) recruitment incentive because the truth is that any of us who feel that we're good at the game should be able to play a variety of roles.

Attempts by people to pick on the Fuck-Me women (or fuck-me boys or fuck-me trannys) is partially an extension of slut shaming.  I think that slut shaming is at times appropriate, but certainly not in a fantasy role-playing environment designed for adults where we should all feel free to let our hair down anyway.

Pretty characters absolutely contribute to the game, and I say that as someone who has pretty much only played ugly characters for the last decade. 

[bcw81]

Moderated a post. Please keep your discussion civil.

[path]

Why would I escape to a fantasy world to sink uncounted hours into pretending to be an ugly chick?

Isn't the premise and general storyline of Zalanthas depressing enough?

Fine. I'll struggle toward unattainable goals while watching all my friends and lovers eventually perish or simply disappear, but must I ALSO simultaneously pretend to be ugly?

No. I have rules in this house.