Prettiness Guilt

[Clearsighted]

IRL wise I've heard and seen women degrade them selves more than I've seen men. I also get shit on for having a pink phone case all the time. The fuck is wrong with me having something pretty?

In game wise I don't think I've ever seen this happen.

I know where you're coming from, but just be wary. The whole 'women are worse to women' thing, is a trope that's been historically abused to justify taking their concerns less than seriously. I wouldn't even comment on this, but I mentioned it playfully in passing to a cousin many years ago, and had my head torn off.

[Jihelu]

I don't use it to make their concerns less serious I think. I just know some very self sexist women I guess would be the way to say it?

Female friend of mine: "Women shouldn't be president because ...-insert x reason here about being emotional?"
Like..what? Why? Why would someone say that? Thats like saying men shouldn't be president because they will beat the shit out of someone or something.
I don't know.

I should probably be more on topic.

[BadSkeelz]

Yeah aren't we supposed to be discussing sexism in game, or something? I dunno.

I know sometimes I feel I'm treating certain characters different than I rationally should because my hindbrain's telling me "That character's attractive, you should pay more attention to them." It helps me to be aware of that voice so I can try and tell it to shut up and ask "Would my character think that, too?" and "SHOULD he think that?" I try not to judge leaders, or merchants, or minions effectiveness based on how they stack up against what's expected of their sex (since all those expectations are from the real world, and don't belong in Zalanthas): I try to judge them based on their effectiveness relative to everyone else in the game world, regardless of plumbing.

I try not to think of things in terms of masculine or feminine, since I'm not convinced those concepts actually exist in Zalanthas. I prefer to draw on the racial stereotypes we have in game. A person's not bitchy, they're breedy. Is that wrong too? Sometimes I think it is, but that's because I don't quite know how well the breed mindset is widely known and stereotyped in the game world.

But since I'm a reasonably heterosexual male, I still find it easier to remember female character's names, just like I do in real life. That I chalk up to subconscious prioritizing.

[BadSkeelz]

Also, a plainly-described but well-played, engaging character is going be a thousand times as more attractive just to be around than any 40-line jawdropper.

[valeria]

[Narf]

So is there like straight up no ic difference between men and women in Zalananthatatas?
Because in real life, you know, women (Usually) hit less hard than men.
That sweet testosterone.
Helps me be manly.

Or maybe I'm just stupid.

I also know there isn't an ooc difference.

It's really better to not think about it too much. Of course IRL, the average man is to the average woman, what a mul is to a human in Zalanthas. (If you don't believe me, ask any woman who has ever trained in combat sports). There are many biological reasons for this, some of which relate to the capacity for childbirth.

But Zalanthas is a fantasy society, with fantasy tropes, and as such, it's best interpreted in that light. Think of it as Joss Whedon logic (Joss is famous for tiny heroines who are super agile and powerful hand to hand combatants). Nothing wrong with it.

Just a quick little note; Zalanthan men and women are the same size. Players might not follow this, but in the broader world you're just as likely to see a hulking female brute as a hulking male brute (and they'll be the same height and weight).

[bardlyone]

I play what I want to. Sometimes people try to put the pc into ridiculous OOC stereotypical projections based on how they look/how old they are/race/gender/etc. Expect that if it looks like the pc is playing too into it, there's probably an angle. There are a lot of players who subscribe to the theory 'fool the player, fool the character'. All it takes is underestimating someone 1 time.

[Jihelu]

The pictures on the sight actually do a good job of showing both genders.
Though I think in the pictures the females are slightly smaller.

[Clearsighted]

So is there like straight up no ic difference between men and women in Zalananthatatas?
Because in real life, you know, women (Usually) hit less hard than men.
That sweet testosterone.
Helps me be manly.

Or maybe I'm just stupid.

I also know there isn't an ooc difference.

It's really better to not think about it too much. Of course IRL, the average man is to the average woman, what a mul is to a human in Zalanthas. (If you don't believe me, ask any woman who has ever trained in combat sports). There are many biological reasons for this, some of which relate to the capacity for childbirth.

But Zalanthas is a fantasy society, with fantasy tropes, and as such, it's best interpreted in that light. Think of it as Joss Whedon logic (Joss is famous for tiny heroines who are super agile and powerful hand to hand combatants). Nothing wrong with it.

Just a quick little note; Zalanthan men and women are the same size. Players might not follow this, but in the broader world you're just as likely to see a hulking female brute as a hulking male brute (and they'll be the same height and weight).

Yep. I've heard this said. And I'm all for erasing the gender gap in Zalanthas society. But I will continue being unable to process this or incorporate it into my roleplay. I know too much about biology in order to take it seriously. And actually, it disturbs me just thinking about it. And also? Maybe 1% of the playerbase plays like this.

I'll just continue treating the society, and the gender's relative physical prowess, as an accumulation of many factors, including twitch speed, reaction time and agility, with a healthy dose of D&Disms (no gender-segregated stats there) and most works of fiction, whether fantasy or science fiction, and its many depictions of badass females. It's perfectly plausible to believe in a world where survival conditions are so harsh, that evolution has selected for women who make the most of their less bulky physiques.

However, I am unable to mentally assimilate a society in my mind where everyone is homogenized to some ridiculous extent, and honestly, I think you're wrong. And I think whoever claimed the above was perhaps well-intentioned, but misguided. We don't need to go to ridiculous extremes to accomplish what common sense an a heads up can take care of.

In any case, it's stupid unless the world is changed to where men can give birth, because such obvious biological differences as there are between the sexes, revolve around reproductive functions. You can't have it all. (INB4 'it's magick!')

Meanwhile, I'm fine with stuff like 'strength' being agglomerated into a whole range of physical fitness gauges, and female chars being just as ass-kicking as they are in any other fantasy medium, without going completely derp about it. I do not think Narf is echoing a staff/official position on the matter. If he is, staff has certainly never done anything to propagate or draw attention to it. Certainly, 95% of every NPC I've ever seen, or staff plot character, has lined up with conventional expectations, and if it subverted them, was directly remarked upon as 'unusually so'.

(EDIT: And it's a bit sad that some people can't fathom a society that is equal between the genders, without basically turning women into hulking men. There are plenty of RL societies on the fringes of survival and hardship that have managed something close to it, like Scythian horse warriors).

[Hicksville Hoochie]

The way I've always viewed it is more so that anf biological differences in sex simply don't matter.

Something such as, "You hit like a girl." Holds about as much weight as an insult in Zalanthas as telling someone they have blue eyes. Such a line in the game world should likely be responded to with, "So what?" Because it's not an insult, hasn't ever been one, and never will be on in the future of the world. Zalanthan society has simply never put that kind of weight on gender differences.

Men in Zalanthas don't make a dollar an hour more. Women in Zalanthas don't get catcalled on a walk down the street any more than men do. People are simply worth what they are as an individual, and not as a gender, and the average majority on either side likely could give a damn less, because they were never, ever raised with such imprinting on their thoughts.

It's a very hard concept for most to take hold of, because of the way we were raised, and the severity in which most of us do, or don't view such thoughts and concepts. Gender inequality just simply doesn't exist, because everyone makes their path, or fails, based on who they are, not what they are.

As for seeing it in game, I've ran across the occasional instance of it, such as, "A woman doing this? Hah!" or, "That's MY woman." And at least one of those was from an established player. I didn't report it, (I perhaps should have? It just didn't strike me as too dire.) just rolled my eyes and had my character call them a weirdo.

[Asmoth]

So is there like straight up no ic difference between men and women in Zalananthatatas?
Because in real life, you know, women (Usually) hit less hard than men.
That sweet testosterone.
Helps me be manly.

Or maybe I'm just stupid.

I also know there isn't an ooc difference.

It's really better to not think about it too much. Of course IRL, the average man is to the average woman, what a mul is to a human in Zalanthas. (If you don't believe me, ask any woman who has ever trained in combat sports). There are many biological reasons for this, some of which relate to the capacity for childbirth.

But Zalanthas is a fantasy society, with fantasy tropes, and as such, it's best interpreted in that light. Think of it as Joss Whedon logic (Joss is famous for tiny heroines who are super agile and powerful hand to hand combatants). Nothing wrong with it.

Just a quick little note; Zalanthan men and women are the same size. Players might not follow this, but in the broader world you're just as likely to see a hulking female brute as a hulking male brute (and they'll be the same height and weight).

Yep. I've heard this said. And I'm all for erasing the gender gap in Zalanthas society. But I will continue being unable to process this or incorporate it into my roleplay. I know too much about biology in order to take it seriously. And actually, it disturbs me just thinking about it. And also? Maybe 1% of the playerbase plays like this.

I'll just continue treating the society, and the gender's relative physical prowess, as an accumulation of many factors, including twitch speed, reaction time and agility, with a healthy dose of D&Disms (no gender-segregated stats there) and most works of fiction, whether fantasy or science fiction, and its many depictions of badass females. It's perfectly plausible to believe in a world where survival conditions are so harsh, that evolution has selected for women who make the most of their less bulky physiques.

However, I am unable to mentally assimilate a society in my mind where everyone is homogenized to some ridiculous extent, and honestly, I think you're wrong. And I think whoever claimed the above was perhaps well-intentioned, but misguided. We don't need to go to ridiculous extremes to accomplish what common sense an a heads up can take care of.

In any case, it's stupid unless the world is changed to where men can give birth, because such obvious biological differences as there are between the sexes, revolve around reproductive functions. You can't have it all. (INB4 'it's magick!')

Meanwhile, I'm fine with stuff like 'strength' being agglomerated into a whole range of physical fitness gauges, and female chars being just as ass-kicking as they are in any other fantasy medium, without going completely derp about it. I do not think Narf is echoing a staff/official position on the matter. If he is, staff has certainly never done anything to propagate or draw attention to it. Certainly, 95% of every NPC I've ever seen, or staff plot character, has lined up with conventional expectations, and if it subverted them, was directly remarked upon as 'unusually so'.

(EDIT: And it's a bit sad that some people can't fathom a society that is equal between the genders, without basically turning women into hulking men. There are plenty of RL societies on the fringes of survival and hardship that have managed something close to it, like Scythian horse warriors).

On my phone so I can't edit out all the quotes that don't matter. But in reference to rl societies like horse warriors and whatever else tribe in the Amazon you're quoting...

That is sorta irrelevant because we have players from all over the world, but I highly doubt that any abborigines or Zulu tribesmen are playing arm.

So it is realistic to think that civilized, science believing men and women can have difficulty where a rural nobody tribesman wouldn't.

[Case]

On my phone so I can't edit out all the quotes that don't matter. But in reference to rl societies like horse warriors and whatever else tribe in the Amazon you're quoting...

That is sorta irrelevant because we have players from all over the world, but I highly doubt that any abborigines or Zulu tribesmen are playing arm.

So it is realistic to think that civilized, science believing men and women can have difficulty where a rural nobody tribesman wouldn't.

Quality discourse, well said.

[Narf]

Yep. I've heard this said. And I'm all for erasing the gender gap in Zalanthas society. But I will continue being unable to process this or incorporate it into my roleplay. I know too much about biology in order to take it seriously. And actually, it disturbs me just thinking about it. And also? Maybe 1% of the playerbase plays like this.

I'm not really sure what you mean about knowing too much about biology to think males and females would be the same size. If you were starting a species from scratch, predicting it's evolving pattern of sexual dimorphism would be incredibly difficult. Even other primates, our closest evolutionary cousins, have a pretty drastic range of sexual dimorphism.

What's more, due to facing a near extinction event in our evolutionary history, and generally low worldwide populations during our evolution, a tremendous amount of our characteristics are actually a result of genetic drift as opposed to natural selection. Given the broad variety of sexual dimorphism in other primate species, it's not at all outside the realm of possibility that our own is due to chance events.

However, I am unable to mentally assimilate a society in my mind where everyone is homogenized to some ridiculous extent, and honestly, I think you're wrong. And I think whoever claimed the above was perhaps well-intentioned, but misguided. We don't need to go to ridiculous extremes to accomplish what common sense an a heads up can take care of.

Lack of sexual dimorphism is not the same as homogenized. They're barely related in fact.

Meanwhile, I'm fine with stuff like 'strength' being agglomerated into a whole range of physical fitness gauges, and female chars being just as ass-kicking as they are in any other fantasy medium, without going completely derp about it. I do not think Narf is echoing a staff/official position on the matter. If he is, staff has certainly never done anything to propagate or draw attention to it. Certainly, 95% of every NPC I've ever seen, or staff plot character, has lined up with conventional expectations, and if it subverted them, was directly remarked upon as 'unusually so'.

I believe Sanvean used to talk about this a fair bit. You're right though, I haven't seen mention of it in a while. Note though that the helpfiles only give one size range for each race.

(EDIT: And it's a bit sad that some people can't fathom a society that is equal between the genders, without basically turning women into hulking men. There are plenty of RL societies on the fringes of survival and hardship that have managed something close to it, like Scythian horse warriors).

The hulking women was one example. Another that would bring the size ranges into line would be small and slight men (by Earth standards). Is this equally hard to conceptualize?

[Pale Horse]

I was enjoying this thread until it degenerated off-topic  

I am Pale Horse and I've played pretty characters, ugly characters, average characters, f-me characters, etc.

I feel no guilt.  I'm playing in a world that, let's be honest, has blatant ties with Dark Sun, a D&D setting that's made no bones about how the harshness of the environment and the poisoning of the ecosystem by magic has forced a biological change (yes, a wizard did it) on men and women off all races to where there isn't a biological difference in strength, stamina, etc.

Armageddon follows this same trope and underlines the rule that there is no sexism.  There's no IG reasoning given, it is an OOC rule.  Don't like it, too bad.  It's the rule.  Can't fully wrap your head around it/accept it?  That's fine, so long as your leave your preconceived notions out of the game.  I do not recall seeing a "no sexism - except for this" exception to this rule.

[Clearsighted]

On my phone so I can't edit out all the quotes that don't matter. But in reference to rl societies like horse warriors and whatever else tribe in the Amazon you're quoting...

That is sorta irrelevant because we have players from all over the world, but I highly doubt that any abborigines or Zulu tribesmen are playing arm.

So it is realistic to think that civilized, science believing men and women can have difficulty where a rural nobody tribesman wouldn't.

Quality discourse, well said.

I'm not really sure what he's getting at or disagreeing with. Civilization and science has nothing to do with some people being unable to grasp a gender-equal society without men and women being hulking clones of each other.

It's perfectly valid to posit that RL shows us that there is a historical basis for equality in violence/warfare-driven societies, even without taking into account fantasy considerations.

Anyhow, unless it's decided human reproduction happens via magick, then the whole issue is a non-starter. Men and women look the way they do because they are mammals, and Armageddon has mammals as a defined species, just like it has reptilians and insectoids, and mammal reproduction makes certain demands on the body.

Armageddon follows this same trope and underlines the rule that there is no sexism.  There's no IG reasoning given, it is an OOC rule.  Don't like it, too bad.  It's the rule.  Can't fully wrap your head around it/accept it?  That's fine, so long as your leave your preconceived notions out of the game.  I do not recall seeing a "no sexism - except for this" exception to this rule.

Equality in strength, agility, endurance, social standing, or by any coded metric or RP opportunity you would like to truck out is fine. Claiming that all men and women of Zalanthas are equal in size and shape, and that there is just as many hulking female bruisers as there are men - when every single facet of the game world denies such a remarkable biological homogeneity, whether in descriptions, NPCs, or even in the characters both players and staff to choose to portray, then we have a serious problem.

If you think that's 'making an exception to sexism', then whatever. By that definition, the game is sexist because men can't ICly get pregnant and give birth too.

I've seen maybe one female bruiser NPC in game, and about 200+ described as lithe, pretty, ravishing, slim, supple, slender. And I've seen far more male NPCs described in brawny terms than as slim and supple. Same goes for PCs. Same goes for every plot character ever introduced.

If you think it should be otherwise, then create a character that reinforces such a reality in game instead of the opposite. Be the hulking, bearded woman. Petition staff to create more thematically appropriate NPCs. In other words, be the change. But I suspect that the vast majority of people do not want to do that, and so it will continue remaining a weird GDB talking point and vehicle for casual accusations of sexism.

[Asmoth]

On my phone so I can't edit out all the quotes that don't matter. But in reference to rl societies like horse warriors and whatever else tribe in the Amazon you're quoting...

That is sorta irrelevant because we have players from all over the world, but I highly doubt that any abborigines or Zulu tribesmen are playing arm.

So it is realistic to think that civilized, science believing men and women can have difficulty where a rural nobody tribesman wouldn't.

Quality discourse, well said.

I'm not really sure what he's getting at or disagreeing with. Civilization and science has nothing to do with some people being unable to grasp a gender-equal society without men and women being hulking clones of each other.

It's perfectly valid to posit that RL shows us that there is a historical basis for equality in violence/warfare-driven societies, even without taking into account fantasy considerations.

Anyhow, unless it's decided human reproduction happens via magick, then the whole issue is a non-starter. Men and women look the way they do because they are mammals, and Armageddon has mammals as a defined species, just like it has reptilians and insectoids, and mammal reproduction makes certain demands on the body.

Armageddon follows this same trope and underlines the rule that there is no sexism.  There's no IG reasoning given, it is an OOC rule.  Don't like it, too bad.  It's the rule.  Can't fully wrap your head around it/accept it?  That's fine, so long as your leave your preconceived notions out of the game.  I do not recall seeing a "no sexism - except for this" exception to this rule.

Equality in strength, agility, endurance, social standing, or by any coded metric or RP opportunity you would like to truck out is fine. Claiming that all men and women of Zalanthas are equal in size and shape, and that there is just as many hulking female bruisers as there are men - when every single facet of the game world denies such a remarkable biological homogeneity, whether in descriptions, NPCs, or even in the characters both players and staff to choose to portray, then we have a serious problem.

If you think that's 'making an exception to sexism', then whatever. By that definition, the game is sexist because men can't ICly get pregnant and give birth too.

I've seen maybe one female bruiser NPC in game, and about 200+ described as lithe, pretty, ravishing, slim, supple, slender. And I've seen far more male NPCs described in brawny terms than as slim and supple. Same goes for PCs. Same goes for every plot character ever introduced.

To break this down to be as simple as I think is possible.

It's designed that way because they want it to be, it's not about being equal in anything more than skill stat means.  A commoner can advance to whatever level of social or economical power based on their skill, some luck and other factors.

A woman being the only one able to play pregnant characters has about as much to do with their oocly devised equality as a six foot tall man being able to reach the brim of a basket ball hoop where my 5 9 frame can't.  It just is what it is.

No amount of arguing, no amount of rationalizing and no amount of bitching will change this, ever.

So while I'm all for the philosophical conversation about why it's unrealistic and why men and women are different.  As Pale horse says, it's just the way it is. Don't like it, tough titties.

[Tetra]

People don't complain about you being pretty when you're kanking them.

[MeTekillot]

I think the only time there would be different treatment of men and women were if said group were compromised of such a low population that women were more carefully protected as child-bearers. Even then, I think they would be treated better and deferred to, as the future of the tribe.

[Asmoth]

People don't complain about you being pretty when you're kanking them.

This is something that bothers me more than any sexism... Mudsex, I get extremely grossed out when it's presented to me in game.  There are some things I don't want to role play. Just call me the fade to black man in game and save the sex for if any of you meet me in real life! (Call me if you're ever in Cleveland!) boom chicka wah wah. (Kidding, but not really if you're hot...)

[Clearsighted]

To break this down to be as simple as I think is possible.

It's designed that way because they want it to be, it's not about being equal in anything more than skill stat means.  A commoner can advance to whatever level of social or economical power based on their skill, some luck and other factors.

A woman being the only one able to play pregnant characters has about as much to do with their oocly devised equality as a six foot tall man being able to reach the brim of a basket ball hoop where my 5 9 frame can't.  It just is what it is.

No amount of arguing, no amount of rationalizing and no amount of bitching will change this, ever.

So while I'm all for the philosophical conversation about why it's unrealistic and why men and women are different.  As Pale horse says, it's just the way it is. Don't like it, tough titties.

That's not the way it is though. It's never been propagated, or treated that way in game. I've never seen staff take a stance on this issue. It's only been tossed lightly around on the GDB, usually appearing on the 7th-8th page of a discussion much like this.

I don't know where you were going here with your other diversions. I'm referring explicitly to Narf's assertion that male and female humans in Zalanthas were physically homogeneous, appearance-wise, with as many hulking men as there are hulking women. I've never seen staff do anything to spread this notion. Maybe a post by Sanvean circa 2005 or some such hinted at it.

I have seen them go to great lengths to assert that men and women are socially equal, and considered physically on par, but that's a fundamental in just about all D&D inspired fantasy settings. But never that they were aesthetically similar.

My concern is that people who take this line are perpetuating the GDB equivalent of an urban myth, which the game world does not substantiate, whether PC or NPC wise, or in any character ever introduced in any bit of Armageddon-related fiction, (staff written or otherwise) without special attention called to it, such as 'unusually tall for a woman'.

[Asmoth]

To break this down to be as simple as I think is possible.

It's designed that way because they want it to be, it's not about being equal in anything more than skill stat means.  A commoner can advance to whatever level of social or economical power based on their skill, some luck and other factors.

A woman being the only one able to play pregnant characters has about as much to do with their oocly devised equality as a six foot tall man being able to reach the brim of a basket ball hoop where my 5 9 frame can't.  It just is what it is.

No amount of arguing, no amount of rationalizing and no amount of bitching will change this, ever.

So while I'm all for the philosophical conversation about why it's unrealistic and why men and women are different.  As Pale horse says, it's just the way it is. Don't like it, tough titties.

That's not the way it is though. It's never been propagated, or treated that way in game. I've never seen staff take a stance on this issue. It's only been tossed lightly around on the GDB, usually appearing on the 7th-8th page of a discussion much like this.

I don't know where you were going here with your other diversions. I'm referring explicitly to Narf's assertion that male and female humans in Zalanthas were physically homogeneous, appearance-wise, with as many hulking men as there are hulking women. I've never seen staff do anything to propagate this notion.

I have seen them go to great lengths to assert that men and women are socially equal, and considered physically on par, but that's a fundamental in just about all D&D inspired fantasy settings. But never that they were aesthetically similar.

My concern is that people who take this line are perpetuating the GDB equivalent of an urban myth, which the game world does not substantiate, whether PC or NPC wise, or in any character ever introduced in any bit of Armageddon-related fiction, (staff written or otherwise) without special attention called to it, such as an 'unusually tall for a woman'.

So you're arguing semantics and policy versus real life game interactions because you've never personally witnessed a staff member support the fact men and women (have the potential) to be the exact same?

Want staff to weigh in on this? File a request under question.

Now I want my helper pay for doing all this hard work... I'm so tired.

Edit: If you ever have seen a humongous female body builder, I would be willing to bet there are guys who are into that and that those women are bigger than quite a few men.

If you want someone to aquiess that you're technically right in how most of the female characters are and that most of them are f me looking or average, sure we can do that, but it doesn't change a thing of how it's viewed or designed on an arm level.

[Clearsighted]

So you're arguing semantics and policy versus real life game interactions because you've never personally witnessed a staff member support the fact men and women (have the potential) to be the exact same?

Want staff to weigh in on this? File a request under question.

Now I want my helper pay for doing all this hard work... I'm so tired.

You're condescending to me as if you were supporting some official position, and not an odd-ball fringe theory that gets tossed around on the GDB forums once every couple years. You have no idea what policy is, and if I were to seek clarification on policy, I wouldn't seek it from you.

Nor am I arguing that men and women don't have the potential to be the same. There are mutations in Zalanthas, anything can happen.

What I am saying is that claiming males and females are physically the same size and shape, with an equal number of hulking, bruiser men as there are hulking women, and as many slim and dainty men as there are slim and dainty women, is a falsehood. That it is in fact, a misrepresentation of Armageddon's gender policy.

Armageddon's staff have always been crystal clear that men and women had the same potential - as they do stat wise in every D&D setting, and most movies or fantasy books. And there are no 'throws like a girl' stereotypes. But I don't know how that got transformed into the comedic notion of extreme aesthetic homogeneity.

If you think it's otherwise, then you should request about it. The game world already represents how I think it is.

[Asmoth]

So you're arguing semantics and policy versus real life game interactions because you've never personally witnessed a staff member support the fact men and women (have the potential) to be the exact same?

Want staff to weigh in on this? File a request under question.

Now I want my helper pay for doing all this hard work... I'm so tired.

You're condescending to me as if you were supporting some official position, and not an odd-ball fringe theory that gets tossed around on the GDB forums once every couple years. You have no idea what policy is, and if I were to seek clarification on policy, I wouldn't seek it from you.

Nor am I arguing that men and women don't have the potential to be the same. There are mutations in Zalanthas, anything can happen.

What I am saying is that claiming males and females are physically the same size and shape, with an equal number of hulking, bruiser men as there are hulking women, and as many slim and dainty men as there are slim and dainty women, is a falsehood. That it is in fact, a misrepresentation of Armageddon's gender policy.

Armageddon's staff have always been crystal clear that men and women had the same potential - as they do stat wise in every D&D setting, and most movies or fantasy books. And there are no 'throws like a girl' stereotypes. But I don't know how that got transformed into the comedic notion of extreme aesthetic homogeneity.

If you think it's otherwise, then you should request about it. The game world already represents how I think it is.

You're getting a little heated over this and I'll leave it at this, the players are an infentecimal fraction of the world, the npcs a bigger fraction and the vnpcs the grand majority.

I mean no condescension at all, I was merely trying to put across with metephors and anecdotes that this is one of those things that ultimately doesn't matter beyond the word of the rules/policy whatever you wanna call it say they are the same.

You don't see it in game? I do I see it in all the vnpcs of the salt flats grebbing with me, all the hardened lumberjacks toiling with me, even when I don't have an exceptional and well thought out player like yourself next to me, I still have them, those women as big as men...

[Clearsighted]

So you're arguing semantics and policy versus real life game interactions because you've never personally witnessed a staff member support the fact men and women (have the potential) to be the exact same?

Want staff to weigh in on this? File a request under question.

Now I want my helper pay for doing all this hard work... I'm so tired.

You're condescending to me as if you were supporting some official position, and not an odd-ball fringe theory that gets tossed around on the GDB forums once every couple years. You have no idea what policy is, and if I were to seek clarification on policy, I wouldn't seek it from you.

Nor am I arguing that men and women don't have the potential to be the same. There are mutations in Zalanthas, anything can happen.

What I am saying is that claiming males and females are physically the same size and shape, with an equal number of hulking, bruiser men as there are hulking women, and as many slim and dainty men as there are slim and dainty women, is a falsehood. That it is in fact, a misrepresentation of Armageddon's gender policy.

Armageddon's staff have always been crystal clear that men and women had the same potential - as they do stat wise in every D&D setting, and most movies or fantasy books. And there are no 'throws like a girl' stereotypes. But I don't know how that got transformed into the comedic notion of extreme aesthetic homogeneity.

If you think it's otherwise, then you should request about it. The game world already represents how I think it is.

You're getting a little heated over this and I'll leave it at this, the players are an infentecimal fraction of the world, the npcs a bigger fraction and the vnpcs the grand majority.

I mean no condescension at all, I was merely trying to put across with metephors and anecdotes that this is one of those things that ultimately doesn't matter beyond the word of the rules/policy whatever you wanna call it say they are the same.

You don't see it in game? I do I see it in all the vnpcs of the salt flats grebbing with me, all the hardened lumberjacks toiling with me, even when I don't have an exceptional and well thought out player like yourself next to me, I still have them, those women as big as men...

Disagreeing with how you are representing Armageddon policy does not make me 'heated'. But I agree the discussion has run its course for now.

[AdamBlue]

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