Prettiness Guilt

[aeglaeca]

Joffrey and Myrcella disagree >:[

That said, okay, I guess that makes sense. I can't help but be a little disappointed, though. Even though science.

[BadSkeelz]

Joffrey and Myrcella disagree >:[

That said, okay, I guess that makes sense. I can't help but be a little disappointed, though. Even though science.

First generation inbreeding usually doesn't have pronounced levels of deformity. (Though they were still lucky, since Tywin and his wife were cousins, so Cersei and Jamie were already rolling the dice).

On the plus side, genetics in Game of Thronesworld also runs a bit on magick. Zalanthas might have something going on too. We always have "A wizard did it" to fall back on, especially when it comes to doing it.

[TheWanderer]

I like to pretend the Highborn are descendants of the Highlord and have magick running through their veins, and they are thusly immune to the sciences that bog down our world.

Incest for everyone.

[Beethoven]

The houses that are more into eugenics seem like they would be able to maintain "pretty" a little more easily than the other houses.

[BadSkeelz]

I do remember it being somewhere on the old website that nobles have a suspiciously high rate of "stillbirth," especially of deformed children.

[Marauder Moe]

I assumed that was due to a higher rate of infanticide of mutant children rather than a higher rate of mutation.

[BadSkeelz]

I interpreted it as both.

[Beethoven]

I think people make pretty nobles because they experience 'prettiness guilt' with common PCs, and they feel that when they are playing a noble, they finally have an excuse to make someone genuinely attractive without being RP-policed for not taking lifestyle and environment into account.

How wrong they are! No one is allowed to be pretty!

[Talia]

look noble.lady (openly checking out her massive, bulging bank account)

feel totes turned on

[Case]

I played a strong woman in the AoD leadership and she got woman hating stuff or creepy sexual threats often enough for me to be bothered by it. Her first criminal even.

And then the next time I'm in a similar situation, playing a gorgeous PC, characters would ask her out/creep on her/pledge their undying love for her...


Yeah this shit happens, especially with newbies.

[LauraMars]

In Zalanthas, inbreeding doesn't mean ugliness unless you want it to. You can play a pretty, inbred noble.

[Eyeball]

it's not misandry to call out misogynists.

Misogyny is a term grossly overapplied these days, to the point of losing its meaning.

[Eyeball]

It's certainly silly, but it's also all examples of idiots speaking up and getting bitchslapped(pun intended) over it. I'd be a lot more worried if this were about templars not promoting women because vagina, or something to that effect.

It's more that it really grinds on my psyche to have to constantly be proving myself harder just because I'm a woman. And it's not just idiots speaking up, it's also shit like...that one minion who constantly told my PC how much he wanted to fuck her, then would tell her how much better he'd be at the Sergeant job than she was, and finally would act out rebelliously against her in particular by disobedience or backtalk (instead of at the male Lieutenant or the male templar). It was fucking exhausting having to tend to his little man-child fee-fees about reporting to a woman.

Obvs I straight-up murdered him.

There are two sides to this coin. I've seen female leaders consistently treat male subordinates with more disrespect than their female subordinates.

How did your Sergeant deal with male characters who were actually able to kick her ass? There must have been one or two.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I play whatever I want to play and deal with whatever issues the world imposes on me. And I have fun doing it. Have fun.

The end.

[Patuk]

It's certainly silly, but it's also all examples of idiots speaking up and getting bitchslapped(pun intended) over it. I'd be a lot more worried if this were about templars not promoting women because vagina, or something to that effect.

It's more that it really grinds on my psyche to have to constantly be proving myself harder just because I'm a woman. And it's not just idiots speaking up, it's also shit like...that one minion who constantly told my PC how much he wanted to fuck her, then would tell her how much better he'd be at the Sergeant job than she was, and finally would act out rebelliously against her in particular by disobedience or backtalk (instead of at the male Lieutenant or the male templar). It was fucking exhausting having to tend to his little man-child fee-fees about reporting to a woman.

Obvs I straight-up murdered him.

There are two sides to this coin. I've seen female leaders consistently treat male subordinates with more disrespect than their female subordinates.

How did your Sergeant deal with male characters who were actually able to kick her ass? There must have been one or two.

There was all of one who could, as Tuluk wasn't the fullest place back then. Things seemed to go well, no disrespect, and then they ended up lovers, apparently, though I never asked sarge herself about that, since that seemed like a bad idea. What do you make of that?

[Clearsighted]

If they aren't taking you seriously it isn't because, "People don't take pretty women seriously...oh the persecution of my gender.", it is because you aren't dangerous enough to demand respect.

Well, yes...but also no. E.g. playing a militia Sergeant who was a hottie AND was also a fucking badass with a vicious streak, with many PCs in the city being pretty legit terrified of her? I still had to deal with assholes in the jail cells saying things like, "I won't take orders from a woman!" (True fucking story!) Also with minions whose attitudes were clearly based on the fact that both the player and the PC were female; my leadership was seen as less authoritative because I'm a woman.

Sexism does happen in game, Dman. You're just gonna have to take my word for it.

Interestingly enough, I was recently reading a article about portrayals of powerful women. They have to be made grotesque in order to be taken seriously, which dates from treatments of Queen Elizabeth (with the lead white face paint and wigs), to contemporary notions about Hillary Clinton and Angela Merkel (Berlusconi famously referred to Merkel after German-Italian debt talks as 'That unfuckable bitch').

It's hard for women to be both sensual and authoritative at the same time. When it does happen in fiction, it usually requires some kind of supernatural edge to make it happen, so as to provide an excuse for why the men should be subservient to her (she's a vampire, she's a sorceress!).

It's evidently hard for the male mind to cope with both the possibility of sexual conquest/desire with its inherent dominance and submission to authority. But there's also a lot of male fantasies that revolve around the subversion of traditional female authority figures (teachers, nuns, nurses, SS guards, mothers), and it all operates on a primordial level.

Anyways. IRL, we rarely find ourselves where say, a thirty year old army vet is expected to take orders from a hot younger woman. But if it did occur, I'm sure there'd be a lot of tension there too, as happens in games where it's more common. Supposedly, all the services have severe sexual harassment issues, even without that being the case.

It's hard for me to say. My one female boss (in the most traditional hierarchy sense), when I was working for the feds, was a gray-haired old technocrat, who everyone was a bit afraid of. But I guess that's the Angela Merkel syndrome. She was my favorite boss ever, though. In fact, there's something about an older female authority figure (with the right personality traits) that I've seen be devastatingly influential in ensuring loyalty. Kind've Thatchersque, I guess. Great male authority figures are more prone to cult of personality scenarios, or getting Petraeus'd.

[Is Friday]

I think part of what makes authority female figures (with the right personality traits) appealing in such a scenario is that she wasn't necessarily interested in challenging what authority or belittling you as a subservient leader. i.e. she was not a threat to you and your realm.

Do you think that's the case or am I off the mark?

[Clearsighted]

I think part of what makes authority female figures (with the right personality traits) appealing in such a scenario is that she wasn't necessarily interested in challenging what authority or belittling you as a subservient leader. i.e. she was not a threat to you and your realm.

Do you think that's the case or am I off the mark?

I'm not sure. I could probably write a book or a much more lengthy post about my specific experiences in regards to leadership in a couple organizations.

In fact, I could pretty thoroughly describe about a half dozen archetypes I've come across repeatedly. But in my experience, the older female boss - in this case, the gray-haired technocrat as it were - is somehow more inclusive. They tend to embody the organization's values, and become something of a touchstone. Whereas for the men, it's always a little bit (sometimes a lot) more about them. DC has all sorts. I've had one or two good male bosses, but let's just say...if a scandal broke out, and we heard the boss was banging the interns, I'd have never been surprised.

It's exaggerated especially in organizations where the guy might have his family (if he's married at all) be in some other part of the country, or his family is in a completely compartmentalized suburban existence and totally detached from his job. There's a much more alpha component.

With my female boss, who had the same rank and authority, it was just much more inclusive and comfortable. No one would cross her of course, but it was more cohesive. And I think that's because a whole host of awkward cultural/sexual subtext which we're extremely sensitive to as human beings but never dare acknowledge or speak about, gets shunted aside, leaving people free to focus on work. Less stressful. I've mentioned this before to other people I've worked with, or near, and they all agreed as to the dynamic.

But I'll take the male alpha boss over the male nitwit any day. God, what a horrible, soul-killing experience that is. (And it's interesting btw, that where I worked, you pretty much had to be 40-50+ to have serious authority, and those women who sought these positions during the 60-80s, are quite different from say, the employment environment now. They had to fight harder for it. Whereas our kids will grow up in a much different workplace culture).

[Is Friday]

It is a pretty complicated subject when you take into account cultural differences between generations, yep.

[wizturbo]

Wow, didn't realize misogyny was so prevalent in-game.  Makes me kinda sad

[Barzalene]

Some people can turn this on it's ear by using sexuality like a tool. (I confess I'm not one of them) When done well, it's an impressive feat. When done badly it's just so comic book, and sad.

[Gimfalisette]

There are two sides to this coin. I've seen female leaders consistently treat male subordinates with more disrespect than their female subordinates.

How did your Sergeant deal with male characters who were actually able to kick her ass? There must have been one or two.

I'm not really sure what I'm being accused of here, but OK, I'll play! She'd say: "Good job in the circle. It looks like you may need to work on <thing>. Or for further work on <other thing>, why don't you try <technique>."

But she didn't get beat often, and never got beaten consistently by any of her minions. I mean...80 day warrior, right? She beat her own Lieutenant and could tank a few recruits at a time.

I'm confused as to why the topic turned to the coded kicking of ass when what we are talking about is IC authority. My Sergeant could have kicked a Blue Robe's ass codedly, but...so what? She didn't get promoted because she was codedly good at stuff; she got promoted for being good at her job, which was building an amazing AoD team.

[Asmoth]

I don't know why people get so bent outta shape about it in game.

If Lady Oash has as big of a bank account as Lord Oash, then huzzah they are equal!

Because at the end of the day there is no documentation that says female can't do what male can.

In a position of social or simply coded power and don't like how someone treats you as a man or woman? Kill them, have them beaten, etc etc but handle it in game.

[Is Friday]

I'm confused as to why the topic turned to the coded kicking of ass when what we are talking about is IC authority. My Sergeant could have kicked a Blue Robe's ass codedly, but...so what? She didn't get promoted because she was codedly good at stuff; she got promoted for being good at her job, which was building an amazing AoD team.

[Desertman]

If they aren't taking you seriously it isn't because, "People don't take pretty women seriously...oh the persecution of my gender.", it is because you aren't dangerous enough to demand respect.

Well, yes...but also no. E.g. playing a militia Sergeant who was a hottie AND was also a fucking badass with a vicious streak, with many PCs in the city being pretty legit terrified of her? I still had to deal with assholes in the jail cells saying things like, "I won't take orders from a woman!" (True fucking story!) Also with minions whose attitudes were clearly based on the fact that both the player and the PC were female; my leadership was seen as less authoritative because I'm a woman.

Sexism does happen in game, Dman. You're just gonna have to take my word for it.

Sexism doesn't happen in Armageddon. I have also seen a few instances of things like that. "You hit like a girl!". I've seen that a few times.

It gets reported every time.

Now, you are saying, "I saw it with my PC so that is why I'm not treated with the respect I deserve!". No, a few people who do not know how to play the game and should be reported until they change their behavior or are banned aren't following the rules.

You know who I don't care about? People who are so new or are so bad at the game that they don't know/do not follow the rules.

Somehow, I don't think these sorts of people are so important to the politics of the game world that them not, "giving your super dangerous PC that everyone was so afraid of" respect, really matters......if these sorts of people DO matter to your PC, your PC isn't as dangerous or important as you think they are.

I've seen these sorts of things said in game, I agree.....but not by anyone where it would ever matter an ounce to the circle my PC's generally run in. They also go reported.

I've also seen a newbie dwarf ask people repeatedly about hunting orcs. He was not reflective or "real Armageddon.".

I've seen a guy talk about wanting to build a "horseless carriage". He was not reflective or "real Armageddon".

I've seen a guy talk about building his own city one day once he learned magick in the middle of the Gaj. He was not reflective of "real Armageddon".

You had a few newbtards say some sexist things about your PC's. They didn't respect you because your PC was a woman. My point is, if it affected your character in any way at all...your character really WASN'T as truly hardcore as you imagine they were.

If your character was really a badass and really did demand and deserve a huge level of respect...these nubs saying these things never affected you or your character at all.