Noble Power

[HavokBlue]

While I fully support a hypothetical change to the way crimcode affects nobles and their guards, I don't think being able to beat someone down with your pimp hand because they disrespected you fully addresses the problems outlined on the first page, namely that sometimes as a noble it feels like you are redundant and irrelevant before templars.

[MeTekillot]

Before Templars AND indie merchants.

[wizturbo]

Allowing nobles to hire and clan two PCs, be it aide types, spies, merchants or thugs/militants would go a long way in letting them spread their power.  It might be sub optimal for the hirelings not having a full unit to support them, but that should be clear during the hiring.  It can also be temporary, even if the job comes with clan amenities.  Nobles can fire anyone they don't need any longer.

"You'll be one of my bodyguards and enforcers, but won't be mixed with the rest of the house guard."

"You're my personal tailor and fashion advisor.  You'll be making my wardrobe and making me appear better than everyone else, but youre not an aide.  Once you get good enough I might try and plant you in Kadius as a spy."

"You're my "flower arranger"...when you aren't murdering my enemies after seducing them to sleep with you."


Shit like that seems very nobleish, but with limited hiring caps it makes it hard.

[HavokBlue]

...Are nobles actually prevented from hiring combat employees?... Just because the House guard division is not open to PCs doesn't mean you can't hire a Bron to your Tyrion.

[wizturbo]

...Are nobles actually prevented from hiring combat employees?... Just because the House guard division is not open to PCs doesn't mean you can't hire a Bron to your Tyrion.

You can't clan them as far as I know.  Most of what a noble has to offer is the amenities and social status of being clanned, without that there isn't much of an incentive to join up.

[HavokBlue]

I don't think your clan staff are going to tell you to fire your aide when it turns out he's subguild_aggressor instead of subguild_house_servant

[Cavaticus]

Nobles are allowed to hire two employees. Those employees can be any guild. They can't be part of the house's actual guard/soldier structure because those portions of the clans aren't currently open for play, but there's nothing stopping them from being warriors or assassins or whatever else.

[Saellyn]

Hypothetically COULD that hired PCs extra job be to bodyguard while around the noble, in conjunction with his NPC bodyguard?

[bcw81]

Hypothetically COULD that hired PCs extra job be to bodyguard while around the noble, in conjunction with his NPC bodyguard?

Not sure about the south, but in the north it's showing a weakness if you walk around with two guards. It's basically saying that you don't trust that someone isn't going to try and kill you, so instead of just using the one guard you're surrounding yourself with commoner/slave flesh like a coward. I mean, there's more to it than that, and exceptions, but I wouldn't suggest walking around with multiple guards if you want a good political backing.

[Is Friday]

Hypothetically COULD that hired PCs extra job be to bodyguard while around the noble, in conjunction with his NPC bodyguard?

This is acceptable for them to function like bodyguards sometimes but for staff's sanity you're supposed to use them like "aides".

[Cavaticus]

One of the big reasons we allow nobles to have NPC bodyguards (and have code in place to allow noble PCs to 'animate' their own guards) is because bodyguarding is boring. If you want to use your aide in that manner, I don't imagine it would be a problem from our end, but you may have trouble keeping the player interested in the role.

[Riev]

Hypothetically COULD that hired PCs extra job be to bodyguard while around the noble, in conjunction with his NPC bodyguard?

Not sure about the south, but in the north it's showing a weakness if you walk around with two guards. It's basically saying that you don't trust that someone isn't going to try and kill you, so instead of just using the one guard you're surrounding yourself with commoner/slave flesh like a coward. I mean, there's more to it than that, and exceptions, but I wouldn't suggest walking around with multiple guards if you want a good political backing.

This is documented?

[bcw81]

Hypothetically COULD that hired PCs extra job be to bodyguard while around the noble, in conjunction with his NPC bodyguard?

Not sure about the south, but in the north it's showing a weakness if you walk around with two guards. It's basically saying that you don't trust that someone isn't going to try and kill you, so instead of just using the one guard you're surrounding yourself with commoner/slave flesh like a coward. I mean, there's more to it than that, and exceptions, but I wouldn't suggest walking around with multiple guards if you want a good political backing.

This is documented?

It was back in 2013 when I played a Dasari. Not sure if it is now.

[Semper]

Hypothetically COULD that hired PCs extra job be to bodyguard while around the noble, in conjunction with his NPC bodyguard?

Not sure about the south, but in the north it's showing a weakness if you walk around with two guards. It's basically saying that you don't trust that someone isn't going to try and kill you, so instead of just using the one guard you're surrounding yourself with commoner/slave flesh like a coward. I mean, there's more to it than that, and exceptions, but I wouldn't suggest walking around with multiple guards if you want a good political backing.

This is documented?

It was back in 2013 when I played a Dasari. Not sure if it is now.

Which is kind of the complete opposite in Allanak? But that's shown virtually. Just shows how two city-states could be different.

[Asanadas]

Nobles are going to find whatever reason they can to diss each other.

"He's carrying around two bodyguards? What a coward."

"He has no bodyguard at all! His House must be scraping from the bottom of the barrel."

[Saellyn]

Well let's say the noble wants to go somewhere and his Aide PC is there to learn how to politic from the noble, but also doubles as an extra hand in case things go wrong. That's what I'm saying. The PC Aide isn't JUST a bodyguard, but one of his duties would be acting as such while accompanying the Noble to places.

But that's acceptable so cool. Maybe I want to bodyguard a noble forevers. Or bodyguard his special aide.

[Armaddict]

Hypothetically COULD that hired PCs extra job be to bodyguard while around the noble, in conjunction with his NPC bodyguard?

Not sure about the south, but in the north it's showing a weakness if you walk around with two guards. It's basically saying that you don't trust that someone isn't going to try and kill you, so instead of just using the one guard you're surrounding yourself with commoner/slave flesh like a coward. I mean, there's more to it than that, and exceptions, but I wouldn't suggest walking around with multiple guards if you want a good political backing.

...one of the worst things I've read.  People are worried about you being surrounded by commoner flesh while you're out and about...in public?  This is...terrible.

More soldiers good.  One of the first things that comes to mind for me, when I try to come up with something for nobles, is the ability to hire NPC henchmen, where others can't without a lot of red tape.  Byn npc's, hunter npc's, whatever.  Simple scripts.  But the coding is out of hand, so I don't say it.  But the above mentality is the exact opposite of logical for nobility, and yet another example of why the north bugs me.  That is super-duper-obviously-contrived-for-no-reason.

[bcw81]

There is no disagreement with me when it comes to some things in Tuluk being very much contrived for no reason whatsoever.

That said - I -really- love the Tulukie political atmosphere. It's not Allanak that is just in your face tyranny. I equate it more to Orlais from Dragon age. Everything has a nuanced reason for being there. Every single thing you do, don't do, say, or don't say means something if someone looks at it the right way. You can be ostentatious as you want and still hide a thousand different meanings in every tiny action.

So yes, Tuluk is not Allanak with the nobles walking around with a legion of Soldiers following them. Tuluk is a game of political intrigue and mistique where Allanak is a game of beat the commoner. Hiring people is by no means any more or less hard for a Tuluki noble than it is for an Allanaki noble. Hiring is -different-, but not in difficulty, just in the people you hire.

[Is Friday]

Opinion: Political intrigue is interesting in Allanak.

[bcw81]

Opinion: Political intrigue is interesting in Allanak.

Statement: I can't talk on Allanak, really, as I've never played anyone in that position in that city.

Opinion: I love Tuluk intrigue.

[Armaddict]

So...since I don't play northern power figures, BCW, would you say that you're in line with the thoughts of nobility and power that were gone over in this thread and others?

Or do you think things are fine as a whole?

Or do you think those things apply to the south, but that the north is working as intended?

i.e.  Are these perceptions valid on a gamewide scale, or is that more focused on southern politics?  Do you feel northern politics and power are intact and functioning properly?

Edited to add:  Basically what I'm asking...do nobles feel powerful beyond documentation, to you?  Is it something that people just have to roleplay along with (until they don't, when you're helpless), or do you think nobles in the north have all the ability to 'flex' that they would need to maintain real power?

[Is Friday]

Opinion: Political intrigue is interesting in Allanak.

Statement: I can't talk on Allanak, really, as I've never played anyone in that position in that city.

Opinion: I love Tuluk intrigue.

Really? 'cause I woulda figured mudsexing aides was right up your alley bruh....         

[Molten Heart]

Opinion: Political intrigue is interesting in Allanak.

Statement: I can't talk on Allanak, really, as I've never played anyone in that position in that city.

Opinion: I love Tuluk intrigue.

Really? 'cause I woulda figured mudsexing aides was right up your alley bruh....         

Is this what passes for political intrigue in Allanak?

[bcw81]

Yes and no - on a player by player level it works well enough. If a PC noble goes around pissing off every other noble PC in the city, he's going to have a hard time getting anything done and he's generally going to look like a disgrace to the PC noble population. Which is good, and grand, and they're still above commoners and if they ask for a commoner to be killed, it's probably going to happen.

With all that said - I think nobles need more of a needed power in Tuluk. As it stands it seems like Noble A talks to Noble B about some minor thing and then Char Report A is sent in to hear that noble A needs 20,000 coins, then Noble A hears that a week later and send Char Report B in to hear that he's doing such and such with Noble B and... Point being, it's convoluted.

There should be a definite, immediate power to Tulukie nobles. Something that makes them - and not the staff handling their reports - needed. I think that is the -main- problem with what nobility I've seen. Dasari can go and study plants - but they can't say they learned anything until staff tell them what they see. Winrothol can sell slaves and beasts - but not until staff load them in. Kassigarh can give out loans - but they need to be approved by the head of house and written in triplicate first. Tenneshi can build things - but not until it goes through staff. Lyksae can... Uh... Not own warrior slaves?

And yeah, that's just a part of the game - you're always going to need staff approval on things. Especially in such positions of power. But there needs to be something the noble can do in their downtime, when they've already handled all staff responses. Yeah, that's partially up to the player, but I feel it's just harder to do just anything as a noble - at times.

I've only read a select few posts in this thread, really, so I can't go back and comment on everything - but one of the things that caught my attention was the comment of playing 'the antagonist noble' and how people would be buttmad over it. My suggestion there, as with literally any other thing in the game, is don't piss in your own cheerios. If you're a raider living in the south, you're better of raiding the north. If you're a merchant selling clothing in competition with Kadius, better not piss off Salarr and start selling weapons too. If you're a Winrothol Noble and you are going to need a new loan to buy more slaves, you'd better not piss off Kassigarh.

And yes, I do think nobles -still- make too little. They should be making 10k a week minimum, or something like that. Money shouldn't really ever be something a noble is -wanting- for.

[RogueGunslinger]

Opinion: Political intrigue is interesting in Allanak.

Statement: I can't talk on Allanak, really, as I've never played anyone in that position in that city.

Opinion: I love Tuluk intrigue.

Really? 'cause I woulda figured mudsexing aides was right up your alley bruh....         

Is this what passes for political intrigue in Allanak?

No, murdering them afterwards does however.