Noble Power

[Molten Heart]

Opinion: Political intrigue is interesting in Allanak.

Statement: I can't talk on Allanak, really, as I've never played anyone in that position in that city.

Opinion: I love Tuluk intrigue.

Really? 'cause I woulda figured mudsexing aides was right up your alley bruh....         

Is this what passes for political intrigue in Allanak?

No, murdering them afterwards does however.

Interesting.

[bardlyone]

I do think nobles -still- make too little. They should be making 10k a week minimum, or something like that. Money shouldn't really ever be something a noble is -wanting- for.

If this isn't already the case, the documents I've been reading are really... confusing. To say that you're supposed to be obsessively keeping up with fashions which are easily 2k per thing (pricing in the 1 store that sells stuff that looks like nobles would wear), as well as offering coins to people for things and whatever else they might want... that does indeed seem to be comparatively very little.

[Barzalene]

If it were up to me, this is how things would work with pc guards.
There would be a guard rank or clan.  Nobles would promote their minion to guard while they were out and about. When the foray was over they would demote them. The crim code would apply in a more limited or not apply while that rank was held. (There would be something like a rebel command, so if you got separated and couldn't be demoted you could demote yourself.)

If you abused this power your karma would be docked and you would be unable to play a guard again. Other penalties might apply.
If you were a noble you would be responsible for your guards (short of deliberately bad or malicious play on their part, maybe even then if you could foresee the problem coming up.)

I'd love to see more interhouse tensions erupting in the streets. But the crimcode being what it is, maybe the alleys would be better.

I keep thinking of Romeo and Juliet.

Code Select Expand

Verona. A Public Place. Enter Sampson and Gregory, armed with swords and bucklers

sampson. Gregory, o' my word, we 'll not carry coals.

gregory. No, for then we should be colliers.

sampson. I mean, an we be in choler, we 'll draw.

gregory. Ay, while you live, draw your neck out o' the collar.

sampson. I strike quickly, being moved.

gregory. But thou art not quickly moved to strike.

sampson. A dog of the house of Montague moves me.

gregory. To move is to stir, and to be valiant is to stand; therefore, if thou art moved, thou runnest away.

sampson. A dog of that house shall move me to stand: I will take the wall of any man or maid of Montague's.

gregory. That shows thee a weak slave; for the weakest goes to the wall.

sampson. 'Tis true; and therefore women, being the weaker vessels, are ever thrust to the wall: therefore I will push Montague's men from the wall, and thrust his maids to the wall.

gregory. The quarrel is between our masters and us their men.

sampson. 'Tis all one, I will show myself a tyrant: when I have fought with the men, I will be cruel with the maids; I will cut off their heads.

gregory. The heads of the maids?

sampson. Ay, the heads of the maids, or their maiden-heads; take it in what sense thou wilt.

gregory. They must take it in sense that feel it.

sampson. Me they shall feel while I am able to stand; and 'tis known I am a pretty piece of flesh.

gregory. 'Tis well thou art not fish; if thou hadst, thou hadst been poor John. Draw thy tool; here comes two of the house of the Montagues.

Enter Abraham and Balthasar

sampson. My naked weapon is out; quarrel, I will back thee.

gregory. How! turn thy back and run?

sampson. Fear me not.

gregory. No, marry; I fear thee!

sampson. Let us take the law of our sides; let them begin.

gregory. I will frown as I pass by, and let them take it as they list.

sampson. Nay, as they dare. I will bite my thumb at them; which is a disgrace to them, if they bear it.

abraham. Do you bite your thumb at us, sir?

sampson. I do bite my thumb, sir.

abraham. Do you bite your thumb at us, sir?

sampson. (Aside to Gregory) Is the law of our side if I say ay?

gregory. (Aside to Sampson) No.

sampson. No, sir, I do not bite my thumb at you, sir; but I bite my thumb, sir.

gregory. Do you quarrel, sir?

abraham. Quarrel, sir! no, sir.

sampson. If you do, sir, I am for you: I serve as good a man as you.

abraham. No better.

sampson. Well, sir.

gregory. (Aside to Sampson) Say "better"; here comes one of my master's kinsmen.

sampson. Yes, better, sir.

abraham. You lie.

sampson. Draw, if you be men. Gregory, remember thy swashing blow. They fight


[bcw81]

I do think nobles -still- make too little. They should be making 10k a week minimum, or something like that. Money shouldn't really ever be something a noble is -wanting- for.

If this isn't already the case, the documents I've been reading are really... confusing. To say that you're supposed to be obsessively keeping up with fashions which are easily 2k per thing (pricing in the 1 store that sells stuff that looks like nobles would wear), as well as offering coins to people for things and whatever else they might want... that does indeed seem to be comparatively very little.

From what I know, that is not currently the case. And yes, it's for that reason exactly that I think their income should increase. There should be absolutely no way a commoner could keep up with a noble in terms of income - even spam-salting.

But, that's only my two cents.

[Delusion]

I do think nobles -still- make too little. They should be making 10k a week minimum, or something like that. Money shouldn't really ever be something a noble is -wanting- for.

If this isn't already the case, the documents I've been reading are really... confusing. To say that you're supposed to be obsessively keeping up with fashions which are easily 2k per thing (pricing in the 1 store that sells stuff that looks like nobles would wear), as well as offering coins to people for things and whatever else they might want... that does indeed seem to be comparatively very little.

From what I know, that is not currently the case. And yes, it's for that reason exactly that I think their income should increase. There should be absolutely no way a commoner could keep up with a noble in terms of income - even spam-salting.

But, that's only my two cents.

I brought this up a http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,49005.0.html and was told, in essence, and unless I've badly misunderstood what message people were trying to convey, that nobles should be relying on commoners to supplement their paltry stipends. I'm still not sure what's in it for a commoner though.

[bcw81]

I do think nobles -still- make too little. They should be making 10k a week minimum, or something like that. Money shouldn't really ever be something a noble is -wanting- for.

If this isn't already the case, the documents I've been reading are really... confusing. To say that you're supposed to be obsessively keeping up with fashions which are easily 2k per thing (pricing in the 1 store that sells stuff that looks like nobles would wear), as well as offering coins to people for things and whatever else they might want... that does indeed seem to be comparatively very little.

From what I know, that is not currently the case. And yes, it's for that reason exactly that I think their income should increase. There should be absolutely no way a commoner could keep up with a noble in terms of income - even spam-salting.

But, that's only my two cents.

I brought this up a http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,49005.0.html and was told, in essence, and unless I've badly misunderstood what message people were trying to convey, that nobles should be relying on commoners to supplement their paltry stipends.

And that's true as well - but you really can't go around fining every commoner you come in contact with, and those you do fine shouldn't be fined for more than 100 - 200 coins unless they severely fucked up for both OOC and IC reasons. All that said and done, you should 100% suppliment your income with commoner peons. But that generally amounts to about 500 extra coins on a good month - which is basically nothing.

[Lizzie]

There's nothing in that thread about fining commoners. Nobles don't fine commoners. Templars fine commoners. Nobles can scam commoners, hire them, fire them, kill them, manipulate them. Nobles can sponsor commoner profit-making endeavors for a cut of the profit. Nobles /could/ try fining a commoner, but if the Templarate finds out that a noble is pretending to be the Law, things could get ugly. A noble could, however, charge a "visitation fee" if he really wanted to (like, 100 sids for the privilege of being in my noble presence at this tavern), but good luck getting that fee paid. You're also likely to end up at the tavern completely alone, once the rest of the commoner PCs find out that you charge a fee for the privilege.

[Riev]

Much as the idea pissed me off IRL, I had a Tuluki noble ask me to head into the nearest tavern to buy him some papers and spice. He gave me 200 coins, but the spice he asked for was 210 from the outset (numbers may be off). Luckily, I haggled down the merchant and used some of my own coin to buy him his stuff.

The noble then asked another PC noble "How much do you think spice and papers costs these days?" and they said about a small. So, suddenly, I was in debt to a noble for a small. Who am I to argue? I tell him no, and I'm disobeying the pure blooded highborn of the city. I say yes, and I don't have it, he owns me.

He didn't fine me, but he outright shook me down whether he knew it or not. However, going around "assuming" people owe you coins is likely to get people not interacting with you. Its a tough line.

[Is Friday]

Oh man. I don't know where to start with how many things are wrong with that.

[HavokBlue]

"being ICly antagonistic and mean will make people not want to play with you"

[MeTekillot]

Have the dozens of GDB posts over the years nipping at the heels of asshole "noobles" who give people a hard time about stuff not clued you in on that front?

[Is Friday]

Have the dozens of GDB posts over the years nipping at the heels of asshole "noobles" who give people a hard time about stuff not clued you in on that front?

There's a fine line.

I'm one of those "kill em all" players, but in actuality -- I seldom kill IG. I do play antagonists frequently, but killing everybody would get boring quickly.

Other players are "coddle them aides" players and prefer their porridge that way.

Another group of players is all "there's never a good reason to kill a PC!" which is a whole lot of nonsense but whatever.

Everybody wants to believe in their fantasyland perfect clan vision.

[HavokBlue]

murder corruption betrayal

except when you are mean to my pc then i dont want to play with you

[Jihelu]

murder corruption betrayal

except when you are mean to my pc then i dont want to play with you

New favorite quote, pls don't suerino me.

But on a related note, I feel like some people react to hostility a bit too..hostile? This is a shitty world to live in from what I know. When someones a dick, you just go "Eh" and walk off.

[racurtne]

Some people really enjoy playing around violent antagonistic people.

Some people think the person behind the PC is just some nerd on a power trip and refuse to cooperate.  

Personally, I think the world is often a little too nice. I wouldn't mind at all if nobles were more scary to deal with. That's not to say they should all be power-crazed lunatics, but just that they should have some teeth behind them.

[Saellyn]

I have never once lost the assumption that being rude to a noble will end in death. That part of the game world, at least, I tend to stick to very adamantly.

[racurtne]

I have never once lost the assumption that being rude to a noble will end in death. That part of the game world, at least, I tend to stick to very adamantly.

Luckily, this is still often the case, it just might not be immediate retribution.

[Centurion]

I think Kankwhisper is on the money from another thread. Make nobles more useful... I'd like to see them hunted as GMH are for their goods. How to do that? Here's some quick ideas, keep in mind some of this may already be implemented, and prices are just examples. Also, while we have the system for trying to branch independent clans, maybe looking at a similar system for developing from plots of empty land could be possible, and very desirable for Tenneshi and Kassigarh. Tenneshi in building, and Kassigarh in taxes and insurance.

Dasari
- Dasari to me seems to be one of the houses that has a lot of coded support already, but it's never really done well in my eyes until recently. Maybe they need a poison that only they can
make and have the cure for? That can be rather scary though to think about. There's many crafts for healing cures and bandages and the like, maybe Dasari just need some better ones unique to them? As the GMH generally have better stuff than the common merchant, Dasari should have the best to offer when it comes to healing. Unfortunalely most of that expertise they are known for can only be provided through RP, and not coded support?
-Licensing for certain herbs and plants. You need to see a Dasari to gather a certain plant or herb, or even type of wood, otherwise expect a visit from a Templar if caught.

Tenneshi
- Standard pricing guidelines for projects.
*Small Building (1-2 Rooms) - 20000
*Medium Building (3-4 Rooms) - 40000
*Large Building (5-6 Rooms) 80000
Repairs/Refurb for above list is 1/2 of cost? I wish we had item morphing, it could be easy to create a no-take item that is something like "This home is well maintained", and after a tick of
a month, it would reduce to "This home is average in it's condition", then "This home is rundown." So on and so forth. I can see a potential increase in ass kissing for templars from independents who want to get trading companies going, but a similar system set up for Tenneshi could see them get some loving from PC's. This could also involve Kassigarh, as someone needs to settle the deed of ownership? There could be set prices for such as well.
-Tenneshi water is goood. While there are NPC tenneshi vendors selling water, would it be silly for the Tenneshi PC's to have a craft that allows them to produce water somehow that they can sell that is cleaner or at a discount compared to the NPC's?

Winrothol
- Hunting Licenses. Much like the Dasari idea for herbs/plants. It wouldn't be every animal, and the costs could change with the months and depending on demand from hunters if they are over hunting or not.
-Beast Crafts. How would you do it? This applies to Borsail as well. This system could use the ride skill, or a Tame /Taming.
You could use item tokens from a NPC House Quartermaster, or some of the food items could be made from certain foraged or bought foods by the actual PC's in the clan.
*a cheap supply of animal food - 400 +0 Ride/Tame Skill
*a moderate supply of animal food - 800 +10 Ride/Tame Skill
*a rich supply of animal food - 1500 +20 Ride/Tam Skill
Using the food, and the item baby silver inix, if you pass you get a item that is
A large silver inix (A winrothol specific mount, with slightly better stats than the inix you can buy from the stables). Since this new inix would be still an object, there'd be two options
now. Request for admin to load, which requests generally happen weekly, so would help to limit the time of these being mass produced if you have the coin to do it, or you could utilise the chip system/script, that is if you can create an object from a craft that has the sdesc of an inix, but is tagged as a chit, and then you just redeem to another NPC. That also begs the
question can the chit system script produce a mob and is it only for items. While it might take some work to set up, it does away with staff work later on.

-Other ideas instead of buying from NPC clan vendors for the animals/beasts is using the mining system. Have random mobs of inix, which you can only harvest from if you have specific
Borsail/Winrothol clan equipment wielded?
-Slaves. Hm. Since there's been no PC slaves, the business has sorta vanished, and it relies a lot upon the staff to build NPC's, otherwise it doesn't happen. Maybe a timed rolecall for a slave PC could be utilised every RL month or something similar? Maybe they do escape after help or heaps of planning? Then you've got the opportunity to capture escaped slaves.

Kassigarh
- This is a tough one as it seems most of the time getting money can be rather easy. Should Kassigarh be giving out trading licenses and not the Templarate? Kassigarh have the money. I
don't know exactly how much Templars get paid, but should it be practically nothing? They are Surif, but they've been forced to sacrifice that life.. If they still desire nice stuff, use the nobility then, or better yet, utilise Kassigarh? Apart from insurance and having formats for documents the nobility might like to utilise ready on hand, how often do they really get to provide seed money for ventures? There's only two possible ventures that can be actual clans in each city atm. Anyone have further ideas for Kassigarh?

The noble houses have had work done and it's been great for actual jobs to do and being useful, but I think it can be expanded on, and needs some more focuse. While the views on the GDB doesn't include everyone, it does seem like the noble houses are suffering with employees? Should PC's be fighting to get into these positions? Why should they fight to get into these positions? Is unique, special gear enough? Does that even matter? I think it does in a way, but people want to be able to act when they want, so being independant has it's perks because you don't have anyone to answer too. Does that mean the templars and nobles should be more mean to these independants so to show what it's like to be in a position in society when you are nothing? That has a downside as you might not get anyone interested in your clan then, cause your seen as a dick.

Nobles do get power from wealth, but it's virtual, and they need to spend a lot of it and put in the effort. Minions are power. I like and hate the partisan system. I'd prefer to have a full
clan of like 6 PC's, than have temps. 2 aides, and about 4-5 pc muscle, that way you can attempt to do stuff in force and it's much safer, and if you loose 1 PC, it's not clan ending for months on end. Have noble clans gone down hill since the guard/special units have been removed? To me, they seemed more popular when these clans were in game, but the Legion has had an increase in numbers since they were closed, as has the Byn. Most of the time I don't want to be the partisan to Tenneshi as a craftsman or aide, I want to be the Sweeper! I want to be the Cavalier! I want to be whatever Kassigarh had I especially wanted to be a Wyvern too, and I'd love to be the Scorpion. There's so many roles I would have liked to have played, but never will get the chance.

Something along the lines of special rewards for life sworn in Surif houses might be the way to go. Something you can't get in GMH or anywhere else. Apart from RP, what do people love?

Tattoos. Unique gear/weapons/clothing/trophies. Skills (Hard to judge if suitable as one can serve 10 years and be life sworn but still be not skilled, just clever or strong, etc.) Housing? (Though GMH family need to wait years before they can even have a private room). Mounts. If you can draw in the employees for the nobles, they will have their power.

I'm rambled long enough. Sorry!

[Barzalene]

Sorry to latch onto one idea out of Centurion's entire post, but for only certain clans to be able to harvest certain mounts has a real appeal to me.  Though currently noble combat crews are closed, if this were in effect this might be relaxed and the Borsail acquiring crews could roam the known being particularly badass and taking mounts.


Tangentially, the first year I played I'd heard a story about a guy. He was clanned Borsail or Oash, I can't recall which now. He was messing around with a breed. His clannies brought them back to the compound and made him kill her for being a breed. That's why those noble clans were awesome. Sitting around with no direction (when there were were no breeds to kill) less awesome and the current make up is better. But if they had a tangible purpose they could be out hunting mounts when they weren't home making their stupid clannies kill their breed lovers.

And that's where we come back to the great thing about nobles with power, it infuses all the levels down with a flavor of the houses and makes not just noble play richer, but commoner play richer too.

[bcw81]

I fully agree with Centurion on all the points.

[Rokal]

I fully agree with Centurion on all the points.

Same, Great ideas!

[CodeMaster]

I'm less for making nobility useful in a mercantile sense (that's what the merchant houses are for, innit?) and more for making them useful in a political sense.

It would be cool if nobles could distribute get out of jail free tokens.  If you have one on your person, you're let out of jail immediately with no questions and no consequences (with or without a templar PC's intervention).  I guess this is possible in-game already, but it would be cool if it were standardized and maybe even reinforced with a bit of code.

Or if nobles could give out tokens which meant it was okay for you to walk around with your weapons out in public.

Or if nobles could give you a token that kept the gate guards from searching you when you entered the city.  No more worrying about having spice planted on you.

Or if nobles could give you a token that let you rent apartments in a specific, high-security area without necessarily being clanned.

Those are way bigger incentives than even 1000 coins, and it would be cool if having a noble 'vouch' for you led to these really clear benefits.

[Red Ranger]

When the Qynar system existed in Tuluk, I thought it would be fun and interesting if the Governor of a given Qynar or Striasiri was the legal arbiter of disputes among commoners that take place within the Governor's geographic/economic area. If done right, it could lead to all sorts of opportunities for interaction as well as corruption not just when it comes to hearing and arbitrating the disputes, but also when it comes to making and breaking the Governors. In my head, I pictured the various scenes from aSoIaF where commoners come to their leige lord or Hand or King or Queen to plead for X, Y, or Z.

[Semper]

When the Qynar system existed in Tuluk, I thought it would be fun and interesting if the Governor of a given Qynar or Striasiri was the legal arbiter of disputes among commoners that take place within the Governor's geographic/economic area. If done right, it could lead to all sorts of opportunities for interaction as well as corruption not just when it comes to hearing and arbitrating the disputes, but also when it comes to making and breaking the Governors. In my head, I pictured the various scenes from aSoIaF where commoners come to their leige lord or Hand or King or Queen to plead for X, Y, or Z.

Except that the Templars are the Judge/Jury/Executioner. The best a Noble could be is an Attorney, or more likely the political figure influencing the Judge.

[Red Ranger]

Except that the Templars are the Judge/Jury/Executioner. The best a Noble could be is an Attorney, or more likely the political figure influencing the Judge.

What I'm explicitly proposing is that Templars stop being the only Judge/Jury, by definition. It's certainly possible to argue that allowing such "judicial" influence to go to Chosen Governors is a bad idea IC'ly or OOC'ly, though. Of course, my suggestion is moot anyway because the Qynar system was abolished.