Skill Pool for Lifesworn

[Nyr]

Yes, this is feasible already in the Legions.  I don't know that it has been implemented in other clans, but it's fair to say that long-lived, lifesworn roles in clans could have opportunities for specialization or advancement.

[Fujikoma]

Oooooooo! Ok, now THAT'S interesting and exciting.

[KankWhisperer]

Yes, this is feasible already in the Legions.  I don't know that it has been implemented in other clans, but it's fair to say that long-lived, lifesworn roles in clans could have opportunities for specialization or advancement.

This does not appear to be the case in all clans.

Everyone present their ideas for what skills should go into which skill pool?

Arm of the Dragon: SCAN, HUNT, SUBDUE, DISARM, BASH, KICK, PARRY, GUARD, FOUR WEAPONS + SHIELD USE.

My reasoning is they should be able to at least learn to counter sneaky types and eventually become proficient at close quarter combat. It should be written like a subguild description, heh.

Long serving members of the Arm of  the Dragon may eventually learn to counter the criminal element in Allanak and engage them in brutal close quarters combat.

[nauta]

Long serving members of the Arm of  the Dragon may eventually learn to counter the criminal element in Allanak and engage them in brutal close quarters combat.

Bring it on!

More seriously, hunting clans, like Kadius and Salarr, should get SKINNING and HUNT.

[Fujikoma]

I think the problem with the Arm of the Dragon is there's not enough guild ranger, guild burglar etc.at times, and too many guild warriors.

[KankWhisperer]

Most people wouldn't see more than one skill gain/boost anyway due to death.

[Rokal]

Yes, this is feasible already in the Legions.  I don't know that it has been implemented in other clans, but it's fair to say that long-lived, lifesworn roles in clans could have opportunities for specialization or advancement.

Oooooooo! Ok, now THAT'S interesting and exciting.

^^^ This.

[Refugee]

Noble aides without listen should definitely eventually develop it after years of service, from the amount of RL hours they stand around doing nothing else while their nobles at tables/couches mumble along.   

Maybe scan too, because all you're doing is just standing there looking around and being quiet a lot of the time.   But definitely listen.

Sergeants/templars in military clans really need a good direction sense.  I know that it cuts out the usefulness of rangers but if you don't have one at the moment, it impacts the whole clan's playability.

Letting combat clan members of long standing learn things like kick and bash makes sense, because they will have spent as much time practicing it as anyone else, having it done to them if nothing else.

Rewards for sticking with PCs, and sticking with clans, all wrapped up in one thing!  Good idea.

[aeglaeca]

I think it would just be nice to see whatever system the Legion has implemented across the board as a proper request system. My impression is regardless of whatever skills would be nice for x to have, it still has to be set by an imm manually. If it's case by case then just knowing the standards would be good.

[wizturbo]

I don't see this as something that should be only for lifesworm members of specific clans.  This should be for any role where you gut it out and stick with it.  If you're guild-merchant and you join the Byn, survive for 5 IC years, I don't see why you couldn't get some basic weapon skills even if you're not permanently part of the clan.  (good luck surviving 5 IC years as guild-merchant in the Byn btw)....

[Fujikoma]

I don't see this as something that should be only for lifesworm members of specific clans.  This should be for any role where you gut it out and stick with it.  If you're guild-merchant and you join the Byn, survive for 5 IC years, I don't see why you couldn't get some basic weapon skills even if you're not permanently part of the clan.  (good luck surviving 5 IC years as guild-merchant in the Byn btw)....

Sawbones, maker of neat shit. People won't want to lose you, especially if your PC has a good deal of insight on the goings on in other parts of the world. It can be done, it's not easy, but I'm fairly certain that with enough effort, maybe staff could bump that parry skill. I'd hazard to guess that if you wanted to survive in a combat clan with no combat skills, you'd be best off proving your worth first by making connections all over the known, as guild merchant -should- be doing. Connections, secrets are your sword and shield.

[Majikal]

I once had a long lived ranger who's best friends were two very, very powerful, badass malarn dwarves. after a rl year of them kicking it I sent in a request asking if I would have picked anything for my time spending every waking moment with these warriors (I regularly used warriors skills during our training sessions). Staff added disarm, kick, and bash to my ranger. So staff isn't completely against the idea of getting skills added with a lot of time and work. Getting them just for being alive, meh. Getting them for putting in the work, informing staff through character reports what your end goal is. Yesh.

[Rathustra]

I'd want any system like this to be based on merit, not simply survival. That is to say, not for simply being 'long lived' - but doing stuff with that longevity.

To be 100% honest this isn't a system I was aware was in use in the Legions and so I was not appraising the Legion PCs with regards to putting them on this track. At the moment I am not changing that. I think a system like this needs a universal roll-out to be entirely fair.

So to put it plain: While the Legions apparently have the potential to have 'clanned development' no PC has been evaluated or modified since the documentation for the clan was changed and I personally have no plans to change that at this time.

[Dresan]

I'd want any system like this to be based on merit, not simply survival. That is to say, not for simply being 'long lived' - but doing stuff with that longevity.

I'm starting to have second thoughts. The idea of real or even perceived favoritism is dangerous to any game and leads to bitter people. Unless its a system everyone can partake in equally without needing any serious judgement calls from staff, I say we avoid it.

For example, if you make sergeant of a clan and have lived at least a year, then you can expect to be offered -one- extra skill added or skill boosts depending on choice of the player. They should be minor things but still something to make the character a bit more special to the person playing it. Again very standardized, and something that everyone would know about, basically becoming commanding officer would mean training from your clan regardless, because you got the promotion. It would be something everyone can work to achieve, even if that means killing your sergeant and taking his place.

There are other muds (a certain pk mud in particular) where staff gives players massive rewards in the form of skills, stat boosts, weapons, and everything in between based on their opinion of the character. If they think  character is cool, they reward it, if they don't perhaps because they can't watch ever cool thing one character does, they simply ignore that character. It doesn't work and for all the additional work the staff put in into watching and trying to be fair, it will still lead to a lot of disgruntled players.

[Rathustra]

I'd want any system like this to be based on merit, not simply survival. That is to say, not for simply being 'long lived' - but doing stuff with that longevity.

I'm starting to have second thoughts. The idea of real or even perceived favoritism is dangerous to any game and leads to bitter people. Unless its a system everyone can partake in equally without needing any serious judgement calls from staff, I say we avoid it.

This is my feeling as well. I am not interested in giving people bumps for simply existing - but quantifying fairly what passes for 'achievement' would just compound concerns players have over playing favorites (whether or not those are valid concerns is another debate). With karma we have an established, universal framework for assessing players for granting more karma or removing it. This framework is also applied by staff working and debating together. It would be a bigger step to come up with frameworks for every clan (as achievement varies from clan to clan) and then have the final say fall to just that clan's staff.

For example, if you make sergeant of a clan and have lived at least a year, then you can expect to be offered -one- extra skill added or skill boosts depending on choice of the player. They should be minor things but still something to make the character a bit more special to the person playing it. Again very standardized, and something that everyone would know about, basically becoming commanding officer would mean training from your clan regardless, because you got the promotion. It would be something everyone can work to achieve, even if that means killing your sergeant and taking his place.

Sergeants and actual leadership PCs are, you'd assume, achieving things by default - their OOC function in the game is to facilitate plots and generate entertainment for their underlings and those peripheral to those plots. I'd hope that leaders have suitable carrots over their heads to keep them in those roles already. Giving them more incentives could go either way, in my mind.

There are other muds (a certain pk mud in particular) where staff gives players massive rewards in the form of skills, stat boosts, weapons, and everything in between based on their opinion of the character. If they think  character is cool, they reward it, if they don't perhaps because they can't watch ever cool thing one character does, they simply ignore that character. It doesn't work and for all the additional work the staff put in into watching and trying to be fair, it will still lead to a lot of disgruntled players.

While 'cool' characters will naturally get more attention - it's more interesting to monitor and discuss a character that's 'doing things' or is well played/portrayed vs. watching Yolo the dwarf - it's the case that we try to have our systems of rewards (IC promotion, OOC karma) be based more on results and reliability (respectively). In both cases there is debate and consensus before we grant anything. I think it is just the case that cool, interesting characters are more prone to achieve things because they're just better played.

[Dresan]

There are other muds (a certain pk mud in particular) where staff gives players massive rewards in the form of skills, stat boosts, weapons, and everything in between based on their opinion of the character. If they think  character is cool, they reward it, if they don't perhaps because they can't watch ever cool thing one character does, they simply ignore that character. It doesn't work and for all the additional work the staff put in into watching and trying to be fair, it will still lead to a lot of disgruntled players.

While 'cool' characters will naturally get more attention - it's more interesting to monitor and discuss a character that's 'doing things' or is well played/portrayed vs. watching Yolo the dwarf - it's the case that we try to have our systems of rewards (IC promotion, OOC karma) be based more on results and reliability (respectively). In both cases there is debate and consensus before we grant anything. I think it is just the case that cool, interesting characters are more prone to achieve things because they're just better played.

I guess you will just need to take my word for it that how things are done here are far less subjective than other places. Image you looking at a player's assassin you like it so you award him additional weapon skills. While at the same time, yousee another character and deciding that because they are less interesting, you aren't even going to bother reading the reports they send and just to piss them off more you make sure you let them know that oocly as they are playing their character.

I think as the years have gone by this game has taken strides to make things  at least seem less subjective, karma for example has guide lines and you can have your character notes reviewed based on those guide-lines. Frankly i think most people after a couple months of time of reasonable roleplaying get 2 karma anyways. In addition to the special app system, karma has become nice to have but not something totally necessary in order to play something cool or get some bonuses. The IC world already rewards long-lived character fairly well already if you ask me and since I can't get my own character to live past 4 months before dying or storing, that is a good thing. I don't think I've ever met a long-lived character who isn't interesting in one way or another, even if the only thing they can do is talk about past things they've experienced, people they have met and events they have lived through.

I suppose if the player  wants to build a tower, become sorcerer king and destroy the cities, they would definitely need much more love and support from the staff. Depending on the scope of a plot, a person may or may not accomplish it. However every day things like clan promotions still pretty standardized at this point or already in the hands of other players who are playing supported roles such as templars.  

[Rokal]

I'd want any system like this to be based on merit, not simply survival. That is to say, not for simply being 'long lived' - but doing stuff with that longevity.

To be 100% honest this isn't a system I was aware was in use in the Legions and so I was not appraising the Legion PCs with regards to putting them on this track. At the moment I am not changing that. I think a system like this needs a universal roll-out to be entirely fair.

So to put it plain: While the Legions apparently have the potential to have 'clanned development' no PC has been evaluated or modified since the documentation for the clan was changed and I personally have no plans to change that at this time.

i actually understand these sentiments exactly.  The mentioned system the legions has is interesting - but i agree that other places should have it too before anything is -done- with it.


The bolded part especially, As someone whos -ran- Rps before. and doing things with the longevity  is -important- to me with any plots or RPs i Run, most importantly I strive to make sure to help everyone involved understand character development and growth.
Going a bit off topic here, but.

When I Rp, the most fun I get isn't out of what my characters can do themselves or achieve themselves - its about how they can effect and influence other PCs, and their stories, and leave a lasting mark on them to allow them to develop further, and as one Pc effects another, the other pc effects another, and then a web of reactions, effects, happenings and growth spread like wild fire, and thats how -plot- happens.

[Tetra]

My problem with this idea is that you incentivize clanned play over independent.  There are some very interesting and potentially fun groups to run in that are indie, and you basically tell your playerbase that it's not worth their time to explore these options by implementing a large advantage like this.  As someone already said, clans have huge benefits already. 

Sure, it is only for lifesworn, but what does that even mean anymore?   You could say you are lifesworn to an oranization but not actually do anything to reflect that in your IC actions.  Do you still get bonus skills then?  That's a large margin for interpretation.

[Malken]

My problem with this idea is that you incentivize clanned play over independent.

GOOD.

[Tetra]

My problem with this idea is that you incentivize clanned play over independent.

GOOD.

I just think it would be a shame if, creatively, people chose not to pursue indie organizations because logistically clans made more sense.  Indies have their place in the whole macrocosm of the roleplay environment.  So like Rathustra said, it would have to be implemented in such a way that measured merits over simply being in a clan for a long period.

[Erythil]

I'd like to see sirihish literacy granted to very high-ranking lifesworn house aides/advisors.  Slaves have it, after all...

[Malken]

My problem with this idea is that you incentivize clanned play over independent.

GOOD.

I just think it would be a shame if, creatively, people chose not to pursue indie organizations because logistically clans made more sense.  Indies have their place in the whole macrocosm of the roleplay environment.  So like Rathustra said, it would have to be implemented in such a way that measured merits over simply being in a clan for a long period.

Logistically, like you say, joining a clan makes a lot more sense ICly but it's really not well represented in game when a Corporal makes like 150 'sids a month and Bob the indie salter makes 150 'sids a day.

Everyone knows that indie has a HUGE bunch of advantages over clanned people so it's fine with me if we start finding ways to put people into clans. Indies really don't need anything else to make them attractive.

I on the other hand kinda feels like it's a shame that Rathustra has abandoned the Legion project for now because in my personal opinion, the Legion already has a very hard time to get new recruits to join AND to keep them.

[Tetra]

My problem with this idea is that you incentivize clanned play over independent.

GOOD.

I just think it would be a shame if, creatively, people chose not to pursue indie organizations because logistically clans made more sense.  Indies have their place in the whole macrocosm of the roleplay environment.  So like Rathustra said, it would have to be implemented in such a way that measured merits over simply being in a clan for a long period.

Logistically, like you say, joining a clan makes a lot more sense ICly but it's really not well represented in game when a Corporal makes like 150 'sids a month and Bob the indie salter makes 150 'sids a day.

Everyone knows that indie has a HUGE bunch of advantages over clanned people so it's fine with me if we start finding ways to put people into clans. Indies really don't need anything else to make them attractive.

I on the other hand kinda feels like it's a shame that Rathustra has abandoned the Legion project for now because in my personal opinion, the Legion already has a very hard time to get new recruits to join AND to keep them.

But because we're talking about skills, the sid is an afterthought.  A PC with buffed up skills is inherently better off because they can survive.  What good is your 20,000 sid in Nenyuk if you're dead?  If we use Legions as an example, they're obviously out on the front lines(but the bulk of that is training for conflict that hasn't happened yet).

[aeglaeca]

Is indie vs clanned actually something "everyone knows"? It seems to me clans have an advantage in getting plots while indies have an advantage in being able to do whatever the hell they want without having to answer to someone about their schedule. Not to speak too much about IC stuff, but it doesn't exactly seem like the Legion is undermanned right now. Compelling leadership/plots are probably the biggest driver for clan recruitment.

That said it would be really nice to see PCs who actively contribute to the game for a long period of time get skill boosts that help them with OOCly stirring stuff up. Listen for aides, direction sense/climb for militia types, etc etc.

[Quell]

My problem with this idea is that you incentivize clanned play over independent.

GOOD.

I just think it would be a shame if, creatively, people chose not to pursue indie organizations because logistically clans made more sense.  Indies have their place in the whole macrocosm of the roleplay environment.  So like Rathustra said, it would have to be implemented in such a way that measured merits over simply being in a clan for a long period.

Logistically, like you say, joining a clan makes a lot more sense ICly but it's really not well represented in game when a Corporal makes like 150 'sids a month and Bob the indie salter makes 150 'sids a day.

Everyone knows that indie has a HUGE bunch of advantages over clanned people so it's fine with me if we start finding ways to put people into clans. Indies really don't need anything else to make them attractive.

I on the other hand kinda feels like it's a shame that Rathustra has abandoned the Legion project for now because in my personal opinion, the Legion already has a very hard time to get new recruits to join AND to keep them.

But because we're talking about skills, the sid is an afterthought.  A PC with buffed up skills is inherently better off because they can survive.  What good is your 20,000 sid in Nenyuk if you're dead?  If we use Legions as an example, they're obviously out on the front lines(but the bulk of that is training for conflict that hasn't happened yet).

If you want to talk about skills, indies still have the advantage.