Skill Pool for Lifesworn

[HavokBlue]

Dig it.  Would give that ex bynner ex salarri hunter soldier something to show for making the journey.

I think the OPs suggestion is for lifesworn members, otherwise you would have people clan hopping to gain skills.

[MeTekillot]

Which. . . would probably be a thing that happens. People join the military IRL then go works as mercenaries once their stint is done.

[Patuk]

If this change goes live I'm playing a kuraci celf so they can get ride and make Zalanthas divide by zero.

[RogueGunslinger]

Truth is, if staff catches that indy hunter twinking too badly, they might just have some rather "unfortunate" rolls, meanwhile, Amos the ruf circle machine can train his skills in relative safety.

Uhh? Not sure what you mean by this, but staff just animate the world realistically around you, they don't enforce twinking policy through IC means(at least, not anymore). That would be stupid. If, say, you're grinding skills on a bunch of elves in an elven area of the 'rinth, they may spawn a bunch of affiliated elves on you to hunt your ass down, but that is different. They won't just spawn a Mekillot on you because you're abusing the salting code, or suddenly reduce your forage skill.

That would lead to players complaining, and then staff having to deal with player complaining... a bunch of work they don't want to deal with.

[Down Under]

It'd be cool if it also affected Indy Clans of a certain size/potential.

Then I would say rock on.

[Fujikoma]

Clans are untouchable and too powerful -- as opposed to? Almost every clan in-game is a hundreds (and sometimes thousand+) year old organization, with all the experience, power, and support that garners.

Exactly. With that kind of backing, and the training structure in place, who really needs more coded skills? While I like the idea of being able to expand your skill list with enough dedication, I just don't see how this fixes the "too many indies" problem that I believe to be an illusion. If we expect clans to have PC numbers to reflect their vNPC lifesworn population, then I believe we have more alarming problems with the number of c-elves vs. breeds/dwarves/half-giants. There's a simple solution with some of the stricter clans that involves relaxing the iron grip on your playtime a little even before they hit the lifesworn part (to improve morale so they eventually DO reach that point), not everyone has all day to play just waiting for that one/two/three IG days off where they can get their tavern-sitting on, or other socializer activities, or mudsex, or whatever floats your boat.

This doesn't really involve a change to the code, even, simply a few small tweaks to the docs to give players a little more control over their time. Not everyone wants to spar/patrol/watch a tower all day every day just because it seems reasonable from a certain perspective. Granted, I'm sure a PC leader could have leeway to give extra leave days to certain recruits and above as a reward for performing well at their tasks, although I could be wrong and they could be hamstrung by staff into permanent "Wat are u doing? Get back 2 ruff circle!" mode that I've seen in the past (not singling anyone out here, I realize it's good RP, I also realize that it's infuriating on an OOC level to some of the people receiving the treatment over a long enough time period). I understand discipline is, in some ways, part of the job, it's also, not fun to play ALL THE DAMN TIME, except for a certain type of person.

[Harmless]

Exactly. Playtimes tend to be low for fellow clanners in GMH or other clans. And sparring all the time gets really old. This is a coded benefit to having all that virtual backing and support -- if you're lifesworn, a veteran hunter or merc or whatever will be more likely to want to spend some virtual training time with you, to give you more skills, make you more surviveable, etc. It makes complete sense to me.

[HavokBlue]

If this change goes live I'm playing a kuraci celf so they can get ride and make Zalanthas divide by zero.

Pretty sure an elf with the riding skill is do-able already. You just can't use it. Look at all the desert elf Rangers.

[Patuk]

No clue, my one delf was a warrior because I found it wasteful to grab a class that is partially defined by great ride and then not ride. I just thought it would be funny.

[RogueGunslinger]

No clue, my one delf was a warrior because I found it wasteful to grab a class that is partially defined by great ride and then not ride. I just thought it would be funny.

Ranger is defined by so much more than ride. A warrior delf definitely works though.

[Malken]

It'd be cool if it also affected Indy Clans of a certain size/potential.

Then I would say rock on.

500 purplish salts = 5% of random stat raise.

[Riev]

Like many discussions on the GDB, I think this one is between "If you follow the background of the game, and strictly adhere to the game world, this is something that is likely to happen" and "Why should PCs get more benefits than they do currently?"


In my opinion, its a game. Part of creating and maintaining the game world, is having a game that is worthwhile playing. If 5 people want something, and the other 195 are on the fence... probably won't be a big priority. And unfortunately, the GDB is a smaller-than-perceived percentage of the players.

[RogueGunslinger]

Not sure why you say smaller than perceived when perception is going to be different for everyone. I have no idea the number of players who also use the GDB, do you?

Further more the GDB could only be 20% of the player-base, but still would give useful data in determining how many people like or dislike an idea. Not sure what that all has to do with this idea though, it's not like this thread is a poll.

[Lizzie]

I don't get why anyone thinks they should get more skills just because they're in a clan. Your character comes with the capacity to do a whole lot of stuff by virtue of the main guild - and the capacity to do even more stuff, that might be completely unrelated to the main guild, by virtue of the subguild (or extended subguild as the case may be).

If you want to play the realism game (which I know so many people do), here's realism:

In reality, you can't play a mage at all. And no matter how dextrous and agile and wise you are, you will not become a master crafter unless you have an actual talent for crafting. Not everyone has that creative bent. You might make a damned fine accountant. Or a genius brain surgeon. But stick a pair of knitting needles in your hands with a ball of yarn at your side, and you spend the next hour just staring at them, drool dripping down your chin.

The same goes for Arm, except with the lovely addition of UNrealistic fantasy fun.

I can be a mage, and become a genius drovian who masters the entire element. And maybe I can dabble a bit in sewing silk. But I won't have the creativity needed to design something unique. I'll only be able to make things off a pattern.

Or I could be a ranger - and know the Known World better than anyone else in my city, know the insides and outside of every creature, be able to pass safely through dangerous terrain wearing nothing but a loincloth and a pair of sunslits.. and maybe I could also filch a few sids from the pocket of the guy who passes me on my way to the bar. But I won't ever become a jeweler, because I just never had the knack for it. I'm observant, which means I might be able to tell you what it's worth since I've spent a lot of time selling stuff to people and have gotten a feel for numbers. But I can't MAKE anything pretty, because my talents are more in the line of killing stuff, not making stuff. Out of necessity I've figured out how to make arrows, but I don't have the creativity needed to design a new shaft, or cut a new style of arrowhead. I probably won't ever really be very good at bashing people in the head, because MY talents are in stealth - not in "in your face" conflict. I'm not very good at being physically bold.

That's how I see the skills in Armageddon. They are the *capacity* to learn. You don't have to learn all the skills that are available to you on your skills list. You can, but you don't have to. There's nothing stopping you from choosing to NOT get good at your auxilliary skills, until you are promoted in your clan. And then when you get promoted, you can choose to RP this promotion making it easier for you to learn new things. But those are things you already have the capacity to learn. You don't wake up one day and suddenly have the ability to figure-skate, when your ankles have been weak all your life.

[ABoredLion]

Hard to draw a line like this, when best I can tell, there's a good deal of the population that wants nothing to do with being clanned. In my experience, clans already have very strong benefits, and they have draw backs just the same. Join the Salarr, get amazing things, relative freedom to wander anywhere in the world(assuming you don't catch an arrow to the throat...or knee). Join Kadius, do much the same, minus the +amazing-no-one-else-can-have-this-kill-gear, while getting instead the +looks-amazing-and-has-all-sorts-of-strange-things-stuff. Join the Arm or the Legion(I assume not because you wanna sew) and you've got sparring dummies, which have heavy potential to be used to get really good at what it is you do(which indies do not have), plenty of sparring partners, as well as all the leftover gear of your various spiritual ancestors in those groups whose shoes you are now filling...both literally and figuratively. Obviously, Byn doesn't play a point in this with it being about Lifesworn sorts. Cause there's really never a 'lifesworn' Bynner.

Editted: I take it back, there are lifesworn Bynners, but they're only lifesworn because they joined and then died to that spider nest or bat attack. Now they're just dead.

[nauta]

Hard to draw a line like this, when best I can tell, there's a good deal of the population that wants nothing to do with being clanned.

That's pretty hard to tell - I think a lot of the vociferous people on the GDB lean away from clans, but I'd be curious what the numbers actually are.

[Fujikoma]

Hard to draw a line like this, when best I can tell, there's a good deal of the population that wants nothing to do with being clanned.

That's pretty hard to tell - I think a lot of the vociferous people on the GDB lean away from clans, but I'd be curious what the numbers actually are.

I agree, I'd like to see the numbers. Finding unclanned people, especially that will work together for a common goal, or at least provide goods, services and coin to one another in exchange for services, can be difficult to find, especially if you'e a lowly grebber with a bunch of rocks trying to make connections only to be told "Thanks, but my House provides for all my needs".

On a side note, the problem with salting in general, and the increasingly finite amount of vendor coin, makes  grebbing rocks significantly less profitable and encourages more salting, which means, less player interaction to make your coin. Eventually all you've got is a bunch of bags of rocks you can't pawn off, a bunch of thirst ticks, and hunger you've got to deal with. Some indie merchant wants to buy obsidian shards for their practice making X, while being unable to supply the coins to provide the incentive for amos the grebber to go out and collect the shards, this leads to further stagnation of the game economy, and, coming back to the subject matter of this post, forces more people into clans for their needs, but at what costs? Suddenly, character concepts are a bit more limited and you're not free to explore your character and build up a modest amount of coin so you can go join a clan already decked out in a hilariously hodge-podge collection of rags that just might, might allow you to survive longer in these clanned roles.

So that leaves you with what? Salting. Can make salting harder, but I think, honestly, it's not really the coin, beyond necessities and achieving certain milestones for your character that you'd like to achieve before committing yourself to clan, that matters, but the character interaction. Myself, I've always prefered to sell things to PCs, but that depends on there being coin to provide to reasonably compensate my PC for the work done and resources lost acquiring the materials, toss on that the costs of getting licensed and suddenly it's starting to look like a losing bargain. Alright, enough rambling, I have things I must be doing.

[Riev]

Salting WAS dangerous, when it was in an area that had constant elven raids, and people that wanted to kill you for your gear -and- the salt you spent all day grebbing.

Its gotten a LITTLE more dangerous with some new additions, but I personally think the skill needed to pull "quality" salt from the salting areas should be increased a bit. It won't stop anyone, but it'll require a few more days of combat training, or at least more risk, which might increase socialization.

[KankWhisperer]

Salting WAS dangerous, when it was in an area that had constant elven raids, and people that wanted to kill you for your gear -and- the salt you spent all day grebbing.

Its gotten a LITTLE more dangerous with some new additions, but I personally think the skill needed to pull "quality" salt from the salting areas should be increased a bit. It won't stop anyone, but it'll require a few more days of combat training, or at least more risk, which might increase socialization.

Just cap them to buy one small per day.

[Patuk]

I think salting is just about fine the way it is.

[Fujikoma]

Salting WAS dangerous, when it was in an area that had constant elven raids, and people that wanted to kill you for your gear -and- the salt you spent all day grebbing.

Its gotten a LITTLE more dangerous with some new additions, but I personally think the skill needed to pull "quality" salt from the salting areas should be increased a bit. It won't stop anyone, but it'll require a few more days of combat training, or at least more risk, which might increase socialization.

I agree, the quality salts could use with showing up a leeeeettle less often, not really equipped to guess what the magnitude of adjustment should be, but it would increase the value of cleaning kegs, I think. Salting would still be profitable, but the fact remains that unless your skilled merchants are going out salting they're going to have a lot trouble competing for the seemingly limited vendor coin with their crafted items in order to pay grebbers and hunters the kinds of prices that the grebbers and hunters need to charge to justify the expenses, risks and rarity of their advanced skills (which took time to build up, damnit, and they deserve some kind of reward to keep them coming back). With a merchant, you have to spend a good deal of money just to eventually break even (considering all the hoops you have to jump through to get anywhere with it, if you didn't pick a crafter subguild especially). This can be difficult to adjust, and, all things considered, it would be so much easier to go join a clan, then store out of boredom and roll up what you wish you'd rolled up in the first place, which is some kind of warrior/ranger/thief type and explore the known, rescuing folks in distress, or perhaps just putting them out of their misery because, hey, nice boots... or maybe join another clan and go hunt stuff down and hopefully keep your clan merchants supplied and entertained.

Maybe a few more risks, to encourage salters to band together in groups (hope the flying spiders nab amos first!) and increase interaction during these activites, because solo salting is soooo boring, but as part of a group it can be fun. Salting needs to be there for those slow times when anyone who would play a merchant or such has been burnt out to the extent where they just play something else. The rest can be fixed by simply increasing vendor coin supply. Then the merchanty types can pay their hunters and grebbers more, who will then take that coin, go to your clan, and hand it over for some hideously overpriced trinket, some of which will end up in your pocket to spend on, things you want. The movement of coin would do a lot to encourage people to interact, but only if there were more coin to be moved. Otherwise we may as well combine all clans into two and auto-start all players in them in order to eliminate indies and consolidate the player-base, if these are our goals, but that's extreme to the point of absurdity, so let's simply admit that discouraging market niches for those outside clans further does little to improve the experience on either end.

[Semper]

Is this discussion about having a skill pool, or about benefits you get by being lifesworn? Cause I think these are two separate topics.

[Riev]

I think it'd be interesting if long serving lifesworn PCs were given new skills appropriate to their job.

Say one every 4 months RL played.


Examples.
Ranger Amos is now a private in the arm. He's been private for 4 months RL. He can choose something from the Arm of the Dragon skill pool.

Options: Subdue, Kick, Bash, Scan

Hunting clans:
Hunt, Archery, Scan,  Direction Sense

Calvary clans:
Ride, Direction Sense, Charge, Trample


If you already have a skill, riding for example, it could boost you to riding with knees.

It'd be an interesting benefit to lifesworn and something to work towards.

I think the OP was talking more about benefits to being lifesworn. EMPHASIS ON LIFESWORN. Joining the Byn for a year doesn't get you ALCHOHOL_TOLERANCE(101283192391293) or anything, but as suggested... if you join the Arm, or Legions, Tor Scorpions, or Lifeswear to a Merchant House... maybe there is a pool of skills you can pick from that you can get +(x) skill in. So if you're an assassin with no skinning skill, but you're a First Hunter of Kadius, maybe you have a SOMEWHAT decent ability to skin a jozhal.

Or if you're a Lifesworn Private in the Arm, with eyes on being an officer... maybe you at least have SOME ability to subdue despite having rolled a pickpocket. Thats the suggestion.

[Patuk]

I kind of wonder what this'd do to clans like tribes, the bardic circles, and noble houses like Oash or Kassigarh.

It'd also skew northen crime even further in the Legion's favor, but then Tuluk has about three PC's who get even slightly subversive, anyway.

[Beethoven]

I think this is a wonderful idea. In addition to encouraging people to play clanned without unduly punishing indies, this adds a little more flavor to the different roles. It'd make things feel a little less gamey.