Elf racial running

[IAmJacksOpinion]

I think we can all agree that Akai was a terrible mistake and maybe just move on.

When I first heard about the new "loved by Tuluki's" elf clan, I thought someone on staff must have been smoking crack. And then I got in game, wound up in Tuluk as a Southern Bynner, and first met an Akai. He was being a fuckin' elf, so like any self respecting nakki, I told him to fuck off or I'd cut the points off his ears... and then my Northern superior chastised me and threatened to kill me for the remark. Made to an elf. I nearly rebelled and spam-rode back to the sane hemisphere of the game.

[Fujikoma]

I think we can all agree that Akai was a terrible mistake and maybe just move on.

When I first heard about the new "loved by Tuluki's" elf clan, I thought someone on staff must have been smoking crack. And then I got in game, wound up in Tuluk as a Southern Bynner, and first met an Akai. He was being a fuckin' elf, so like any self respecting nakki, I told him to fuck off or I'd cut the points off his ears... and then my Northern superior chastised me and threatened to kill me for the remark. Made to an elf. I nearly rebelled and spam-rode back to the sane hemisphere of the game.

Maybe you shouldn't be acting on Nakki impulses in Tuluk, just a thought. Racism exists, it's just not as blatant. Like many other things, this is one way in which Tuluk is different. I love seeing racism overdone in a place like Red Storm Village. It's like, awright, gonna be some newb boots for sale in the clothing tent soon, maybe a stormcloak if I'm lucky. Yes, people are racist in Red Storm, but like other places, the culture is different in how it's expressed. There's elven soldiers in the streets, the water seller is an elf! Think about that, these are people who will buy the most precious resource, one that could easily be sabotaged, from an elf! And why is that? Well, find out IC.

EDIT: If you want a good example, there's a place in the market where two co-workers of differing races interact. Go sit and listen and watch a while.

[Malken]

Polite and cordial racism or GTFO of my city.

[Fujikoma]

Let's put it this way, if you just stepped out of chargen, and walked up to the only PC elf you could see, bypassing NPC elves and vNPC elves, simply to spit on them and issue death threats and racial slurs with no provocation in a place that isn't Allanak, then you have only yourself to blame for overlooking many things and being meta-gamey. If you just walked in from outside of Tuluk and did the same, then you're even more mistaken. The Akai elf needn't even be Akai, all he needs are inks and he has a leg up on the social spectrum that you don't, he's a fucking citizen, for all anyone else knows, you're a Nakki loyalist and a spy. This is the basis. Further, consider this PC has survived, restricted to a small area that they can only escape with great difficulty if things get too hot. They're bound to have connections, to have greased palms.

You do this in say, Storm, or Luir's, and you haven't bothered to actually sit back and investigate exactly who you're fucking with, there's a good fucking chance you just kicked a wezer nest. This kind of behavior makes one question exactly how your PC got to their current age without being snuffed. You start with the assumption, given your interpretation of the docs, and your experiences in Allanak, that an elf can have no value to anyone else, that they don't provide any services whatsoever that someone else may find necessary, that they have no one who enjoys their company. These are all assumptions, and if the elf has survived longer than several days played, they're likely dead wrong. Nothing is working improperly here when you get fucked over and murdered for fucking with the elf in question. It is working improperly if they let you live out of pity for your lack of wisdom. There's no real reason to allow such threats to continue to persist when you're utterly convinced that one day they're going to try and make good on them.

Your straight out of chargen/straight out of Nak plot simply isn't as important as the current plots in the location you find yourself in. If you can't adapt, then, stay in the Byn compound, or simply, keep your mouth shut until you're more aware of what's going on. You certainly wouldn't do it in Blackwing, because, you already know. Please, don't make too many assumptions.

[Thunkkin]

Self-deleted a snarky post.

Insert photo of kittens and bunnies here.



Edit by Bcw81: Inserted

[Harmless]

Just anecdotal, but over a six month period playing in the rinth, I noticed a lot of c-elves come and go -fairly quickly- (they were probably all Patuk and Fuji having mad mudsex twinkfests with twitchy spicers).

Nope! I played a c-elf for a few short months while you were there I think.

I also played a c-elf in the akai when Patuk was there.

But nobody remembers me because.. I don't ever last too long. Anyway, I already put all my relevant opinions in here, I just wanted to give myself a shout out.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

Polite and cordial racism or GTFO of my city.

Malken wins.

Let's put it this way, if you just stepped out of chargen, and walked up to the only PC elf you could see, bypassing NPC elves and vNPC elves, simply to spit on them and issue death threats and racial slurs with no provocation in a place that isn't Allanak, then you have only yourself to blame for overlooking many things and being meta-gamey.

It wasn't unprovoked. As I said, he was being elfy. I think he was being a snarky after half of our unit had been cut to shreds by Kryl, while the bodies and paralyzed chars were still being dragged back to the city gates. I was a little emotional.

... he's a fucking citizen, for all anyone else knows, you're a Nakki loyalist and a spy.

This wasn't a concern that weighed heavy on anyone's mind at that point in time. An unaffiliated nakki could ride to Tuluk and sit in the bar and be relatively undisturbed (pending the whims of Legionaires / templar of course). I think it was post-"Tuluk and Allanak alliance" and pre-"k, lets warz again". I like things better the way they are now, but that just wasn't a very big deal.

When the docs say "fuck elves, except these elves in particular that sprung up from the ground overnight, and crawled back into it shortly there-after" I'm going to raise my eyebrow at it. Plain and simple. Sorry/not sorry.

[Fujikoma]

It wasn't unprovoked. As I said, he was being elfy. I think he was being a snarky after half of our unit had been cut to shreds by Kryl, while the bodies and paralyzed chars were still being dragged back to the city gates. I was a little emotional.

Ah, I see, I'm the one making assumptions here. Yeah, don't blame you in that case. But otherwise, no, not the ones who "sprung up overnight", but the ones who have persisted and continue to persist should be handled with caution. You have to consider that it gets pretty aggravating to the player to continually prove their PC's worth time and time again, and every asshole hotshot that comes out of chargen that didn't just start playing the game has absolutely no knowledge of this and operates on assumptions and starts shit with you and threatens to murder you or your friends for, wait, why? Fuck all elves? Really? This shit again? It's honestly a lot easier to have you dealt with than earn your grudging respect against all odds.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

I can get that, but as Armaddict said early (before being, IMO unfairly, shut down) "that's the role." Not everyone will or should know about your character and their deeds. If people around you do, then they might stick up for you, as the Northerner in this case did.

A lot of times the only time that will become a case is within a certain clan. Like, Kurac has had a few noted elven BA's. The Byn has even had elven sargeant PCs (though not for a long time). And if a character came into that clan and said "Hah, who promoted the sharp-ear?" they may get promptly corrected by some of the people that sharp-ear had saved in previous battles. But to people passing you by on the street for the first time, yeah you're just an elf. They don't know you, and they have no reason to.

[Fujikoma]

I can get that, but as Armaddict said early (before being, IMO unfairly, shut down) "that's the role." Not everyone will or should know about your character and their deeds. If people around you do, then they might stick up for you, as the Northerner in this case did.

A lot of times the only time that will become a case is within a certain clan. Like, Kurac has had a few noted elven BA's. The Byn has even had elven sargeant PCs (though not for a long time). And if a character came into that clan and said "Hah, who promoted the sharp-ear?" they may get promptly corrected by some of the people that sharp-ear had saved in previous battles. But to people passing you by on the street for the first time, yeah you're just an elf. They don't know you, and they have no reason to.

Yeah, that's the thing, they -don't- know me. Ok, say you walk into a bar and there's some bikers there, they're grungy and have beards, maybe they're spread out. Now, you have an irrational hatred of beards because your creepy uncle Steve had a beard, or something... so, you find the smallest looking one you can, and you walk over and try to yank out a tuft of his beard.

Wait, you don't know this guy. That's a Hell's Angel or something. The predictable happens. Really, fucking with people you -don't- know is a much worse thing than fucking with the ones you do know.

[Flying Erdlu]

I've honestly always questioned why the two elf flavors are coded and treated so differently to begin with. Are they really 2 separate races? I highly doubt it. So it doesn't make sense then that city elves' legs would be THAT MUCH weaker than those of desert elves. Looking at the docs, we can tell that Allanak is about 1300 years old and Tuluk 1200, so before that all elves would be considered D-elves. I'm not expert, but I'm fairly certain 1300 years isn't enough time to devolve your 2nd heart, or enlarged achillies tendon, or whatever other fan-favorite theory lies behind the secret to D-elf running. Granted there would be environmental differences in the two, but that wouldn't make or break the trait so drastically.

Consider the Kenyan and Ethiopian dominance in long distance running as a comparison. They are humans, just like Americans. Yet as a culture, we on an average produce much shorter and heavier people than they do. Physiologically, they are slimmer, taller, and have a culture that encourages long distance running.

[Thunkkin]

Yeah, that's the thing, they -don't- know me. Ok, say you walk into a bar and there's some bikers there, they're grungy and have beards, maybe they're spread out. Now, you have an irrational hatred of beards because your creepy uncle Steve had a beard, or something... so, you find the smallest looking one you can, and you walk over and try to yank out a tuft of his beard.

Wait, you don't know this guy. That's a Hell's Angel or something. The predictable happens. Really, fucking with people you -don't- know is a much worse thing than fucking with the ones you do know.

I think your analogy only works if it's an elven bar in an elven slum area. Consider the casual, persistent, and sometimes very confrontational racism faced by blacks in the American south (and elsewhere) before (and hell, after) the civil rights movement. Most racist whites could be pretty confident that they could insult a non-white in a public space like a bar, restaurant, or bus and that all the systems of power would have their back. Sometimes such insults were surely unwise and carried repercussions, but usually not.

But we're not talking about just "racism" here, we talking about species-ism. Damn right the humans don't know "who you are", because as an elf, you are nobody.

[Patuk]

Blacks are about 20% of the US population. Elves are 40% of so of the free population in either city. It would make a difference.

Added to this example is that a southern bynner entering a northern tavern with elves in it is a little like a Soviet entering your American example's bar. Yeah.

[Fujikoma]

Yes, and that would make sense, in Allanak. In Red Storm, the guards are muls, humans, elves, dwarves, the culture pulls together to do what they need to do to survive the harsh conditions, they might not like it, but they're not a bunch of inbred, hillbilly, monster-truck enthusiast types about it. In Tuluk, subtlety is valued, somewhat, further, they are rabidly xenophobic, and especially dislike Allanak, enough so that the documents mention it as a major point, which implies that no, even if they hate that elf, they're not going to appreciate your Nakki ass coming in and trying to start shit with their citizens. Even in the rinth, where sometimes war breaks out between east and west side, it is documented that they WILL pull together to counter the threat of outsiders, that their hatred of eachother is not as strong as their hatred of meddlesome Nakki loyalists.

In Luir's, there are plenty of elven regulars around, Kurac hires elves. Elves can, theoretically anyway, achieve rank in Kurac, as can half-elves. You wouldn't just see "elf" in someone's sdesc and start talking shit, because they could, theoretically, be wearing a cloak of some kind or some rank, or the could be desert elves who will wait outside and turn you into some kind of arrow pin-cushion upon leaving. No, you would look first, and anyone who thought about it for more than a minute before simply responding to the word "elf" on their screen would begin to wonder, what exactly, am I fucking with? But, be surprised how many don't.

But, I guess it flies in Allanak, and it obviously makes it damn near unplayable, especially long-term, in that particular city. Further, when they roll up a character elsewhere, it's obvious sometimes that the player is still in "that" mode of thinking and simply carries everything over, as if things are the same everywhere. I see this view a lot on the GDB and I think it's harmful to immersion as well as playability.

[CodeMaster]

Yeah, that's the thing, they -don't- know me. Ok, say you walk into a bar and there's some bikers there, they're grungy and have beards, maybe they're spread out. Now, you have an irrational hatred of beards because your creepy uncle Steve had a beard, or something... so, you find the smallest looking one you can, and you walk over and try to yank out a tuft of his beard.

Wait, you don't know this guy. That's a Hell's Angel or something. The predictable happens. Really, fucking with people you -don't- know is a much worse thing than fucking with the ones you do know.

I think your analogy only works if it's an elven bar in an elven slum area. Consider the casual, persistent, and sometimes very confrontational racism faced by blacks in the American south (and elsewhere) before (and hell, after) the civil rights movement. Most racist whites could be pretty confident that they could insult a non-white in a public space like a bar, restaurant, or bus and that all the systems of power would have their back. Sometimes such insults were surely unwise and carried repercussions, but usually not.

But we're not talking about just "racism" here, we talking about species-ism. Damn right the humans don't know "who you are", because as an elf, you are nobody.

Actually they'd probably be considered the same species since half-elves exist.  -pedantic.

But otherwise I agree wholeheartedly with you here - city elves should be a reviled underclass.  That's their flavor, imo.

In the virtual world, city elves are probably mostly hanging out among their own kind, pursuing fully elven plots, drinking in the right places, and generally keeping a low profile with respect to the human world.  They aren't getting accosted and harrassed at every turn because they're in their impoverished safe zones, going home to their elven families, talking allundean all the time, etc.

PC city elves on the other hand live in the PC world.  The PC world is human-centric in terms of coded authority figures, mercenary outfits, mercantile efforts, political intrigue, etc.  So there's this understandable temptation for the PC city elf to take a departure and start interacting with the PC humans and their power structures, sitting in the human taverns, trying to establish a good rep among humans, etc.  I bet most city elf PCs spend 95% of their time talking in sirihish -- one might say it's a wonder allundean has even survived in the cities.

I think dwarves are in a similar position (99.9% of their time talking in sirihish), but dwarf threads like these don't pop up because -- despite the focus thing -- dwarves have fewer restrictions on the activities they can get engaged with in game.

It's really encouraging to read a post like Rathuustra wrote, and to see that Nyr does consider it an issue.  Given the relatively small number of city elf players though, I think it's understandable that it's on the backburner for now.

[Delirium]

Elves = Pikeys from Snatch.

You may not trust them, but you'll cut deals with them, and if you kill one of their own they'll band up and try to murder you in turn. They could be considered to have a bit of scrappy glamour about them, due to their ability to survive and thrive against all odds, but despite being tight-knit, mischief-loving folks they're still a bunch of assholes and con-men.

And somehow you ended up buying a caravan with no wheels. Fancy that.

That sort of approach gives you a lot of leeway in dealing with elves. You can even befriend one! Just don't forget what they are.

"Yeah, Amos ain't bad - for an elf."

[Thunkkin]

I agree that Luirs/Red Storm are a different social situation - and sure - aggressive Nakkis aren't going to be appreciated up north. But it felt like your comments, Fujikoma, weren't just about north/south issues, but about how elves in general are treated. And in both cities, even if elves are a big portion of the population, the structures of society exclude them in a huge and pervasive way that has ripple effects through every facet of human/elf interaction. Most elves are not going to have any friends in high places and are not going to have anyone with real power interested in protecting them or backing them up. And everyone knows it. At least, that's always been my sense of the issue.

[Fujikoma]

I agree that Luirs/Red Storm are a different social situation - and sure - aggressive Nakkis aren't going to be appreciated up north. But it felt like your comments, Fujikoma, weren't just about north/south issues, but about how elves in general are treated. And in both cities, even if elves are a big portion of the population, the structures of society exclude them in a huge and pervasive way that has ripple effects through every facet of human/elf interaction. Most elves are not going to have any friends in high places and are not going to have anyone with real power interested in protecting them or backing them up. And everyone knows it. At least, that's always been my sense of the issue.

Ok, see, there's the source of our disagreement. I'm perfectly fine with the level of racism that exists in other places. It does make things difficult, yes, but that's the role, and it's documented. My contention is that the Allanak treatment is overdone to the point of absurdity, and though elves exist in Allanak, existing as a PC is near impossible simply for the sheer amount of grief you will receive for a simple wrong word or slip-up, everyone thinks, oh, an elf, time to show off my Nakki roleplay skills, but it's actually detrimental, in the long term, to go whole hog on it, because, even though from your perspective, you're doing what you're supposed to be doing and what makes sense for your character, you may not be putting yourself in the player of the elf's shoes, and thinking about the documentation that they are expected to follow. While I agree, this isn't a game you're supposed to play nicely, it's also not supposed to be a non-stop grief fest where you can never, ever hope to get a foothold with anything, no matter how much effort you put into it.

From your perspective, the interaction ends when you walk away from it, but you must remember that most other human players in Allanak are just like you, and oh, hey, what's that? Is that an, elf? Repeat until thoroughly demoralized. Why is this elf being targeted so much? Because they're visible, interacting, and obviously a player character. As I was pointing out previously, I don't see many folks focus on vNPCs and NPCs, though I have seen a few bully them, and I must commend them for keeping a steady character that interacts with their environment, instead of zeroing in on the lone elf PC all the time, who has done absolutely nothing at all and immediately making them the focus of an unrealistic amount of hatred that, when it comes to NPCs and vNPCs, seems to cease to exist.

It's no wonder there's no elves to torment or bully. People don't even bother to investigate the connections an elf may have. It may be a relatively safe assumption that they don't have powerful allies, but there's no way you can know that for certain. That elf could be secretly serving the purposes of a Templar or a soldier, and their services could be highly valued, this could easily blow up in your face. That elf could be friends with a number of highly deadly and secretive east side elves, they may even have some Guild connections that would value them over you, despite being an elf. They could, mysteriously, have connections with mindbenders and rogue mages, which could really ruin your entire life, your virtual family's life, the lives of your friends, as the opportunities present themselves. Simply, you don't know this, and the player of an elf PC who has endured enough torment is, naturally, going to seek refuge with other outsiders and make allies with those outside the norm, simply because they have no other choice if they want interaction or any reasonable degree of protection.

You don't know what palms are being greased, what info is going where, who simply likes this dirty thief for odd reasons, you don't know this guy, could be some random skinny at the bar, who knows, maybe his vNPC tribe is a highly lethal tribe of assassins, maybe he's a master assassin, but as long as we start with the perspective, because we know elven tribes are virtual and the amount of effort it takes to test, trust and build alliances and the amount of coin it would take to grease palms to the point to where their social value would be higher than Amos the grebber or mercenary, that the elf is completely powerless, then it becomes rational to have our characters behave self-destructively when dealing with elven characters. You see, to survive in Allanak, the PC elf WILL have to do these things, simply because of the absurd amount of attention they receive from everyone and their mother, despite the huge amount of elves walking the streets of the city.

Hence, the only elf in the city treatment, and why so few people play elves, particularly in Allanak, and why it's so jarring to see the Nakki mindset pop up elsewhere, as the player of an elf, as if it simply carries over. Yes, no matter where you go you will be strongly disliked, even hated, but at least in other places you can almost force your foot in the door and begin dealing with folks on a rational basis. In Allanak, you're going to have to work really fucking hard for it, and then, because no one will listen when you inform them they really don't want to fuck with you, you're going to have to demonstrate why, and no matter how many times you do it, Amos the hotshot straigh out of chargen #10876 is going to do the same tired old thing, because of the OOC knowledge that "What's that elf gonna do? He can't do shit!", sigh.

So yeah, another long rant, and seriously, it's just about Allanak. Yes, there is racism elsewhere. I wasn't aware this was the deep south simulator, I don't consider it a good model for dealing with the second most populace race in the known, and I think we can all do a little better when it comes to spreading the hate out, and having a healthy respect for how swiftly death can be at your doorstep in this harsh world. I've seen more c-elves in Red Storm and Tuluk than I have anywhere else, and yes, they do get eyed suspiciously and other find out IC stuff, but it's playable, and at the end of the day, that's what matters, playability. Extra hard mode is one thing, unplayable is another.

[Delirium]

Eh, if players hesitated to start shit with other PCs out of fear of connections they may have, and just wanted to win at the imaginary social game, everyone's characters would just run around smiling at people and inviting each other over for mudsex.

Oh, wait.....

So yeah, fuck playing it safe all the time. If your character is a low-brow asshole, let 'em be a low-brow asshole.

My argument against randomly picking on elves is that, virtually, they'd have an entire pack of equally untrustworthy, knife-holding sharpears at their back.

Not that they might have connections.

[wizturbo]

I think part of the issue with city elves not being able to travel outside the gates is they don't have many options for combat skill training.  They can't join clans to spar, they don't necessarily trust anyone enough to spar with them in an apartment, and there's no "hunting" options for them in the cities.   I know this is a role playing game, but I think we call can relate to getting in the mood once in a while to train up our PC's, especially when most guilds have combat elements to their skill sets.

I don't know what the best solution is for this, but I think addressing it in some way could improve some of the pain points for city elf roles, as well as any city roles for that matter.

Hypothetical examples:

• Non-clan affiliated fighting pits
• Some kind of encroachment of local wild life on the city streets/underground/very nearby
• Some combat versions of jobs, akin to salting/clay/dung shovelling

I recognize all of these suggestions of potential issues with them...  but like I said, don't know what the best solution would be, more interested in identifying a lack of city combat roles as an underlying pain point.

[Patuk]

It's a bit like messing with Italians, really, if we're going to keep on using Thunkkin's America metaphor.

Suppose there is a 2% chance a random Italian is a mobster. Or 5. 10. At what point do you stop being a total, overt dick to every Italian becsuse the retaliation isn't worth it? Dislike them all you want, yes, but realise that being too brash will cost you.

How many celves will be in a tribe and have a dozen meathead cousins to come beat up that douche who broke their jaw? 2? 5? 20? Whatever the percentage, it seems reasonable to assume that enough celves have 'mob connections' that it may be wiser for people to at least consider how they treat elves.

Now turn whatever percentage of elves has mob connections into zero because reasons, and you have an understanding of PC elf land.

[Harmless]

Eh, if players hesitated to start shit with other PCs out of fear of connections they may have, and just wanted to win at the imaginary social game, everyone's characters would just run around smiling at people and inviting each other over for mudsex.

Oh, wait.....

So yeah, fuck playing it safe all the time. If your character is a low-brow asshole, let 'em be a low-brow asshole.

My argument against randomly picking on elves is that, virtually, they'd have an entire pack of equally untrustworthy, knife-holding sharpears at their back.

Not that they might have connections.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being a low-brow asshole, and what DOES tick me off is when elves take being a low-brow asshole too seriously, and take any little insult like it's worthy of retaliation. I think being rude and crude is great, but yeah, physical violence crosses a line, taking property crosses all the lines, and attempted murder should basically equal a full-blown murderfest in retaliation.

But calling elves shitbags and saying you don't talk to elves and telling every elf you see to fuck off is pretty much fine in my book, esp. because that is the common opinion. It's when it gets more than that that I wonder if people actually understand how elves are SUPPOSED to work.

Anyway, people roleplay a hatred of magickers "too far" as well, to the tune of they know that it is actually very difficult for magickers to exact revenge on them, so the HATE of magickers supercedes the FEAR of magickers that they should have. People should technically be worried about elves and their tribes, but they know that it is actually very difficult for elves to exact revenge so they take it too far.

Anyway, I don't care if I get killed by c elves... I have been PKed by c elves in the rinth before and it was a great experience, totally worth it for everyone involved.. and the sad thing is it only happened to me once, but I have definitely fucked with c elves more than once.

[Fujikoma]

Eh, if players hesitated to start shit with other PCs out of fear of connections they may have, and just wanted to win at the imaginary social game, everyone's characters would just run around smiling at people and inviting each other over for mudsex.

Oh, wait.....

So yeah, fuck playing it safe all the time. If your character is a low-brow asshole, let 'em be a low-brow asshole.

My argument against randomly picking on elves is that, virtually, they'd have an entire pack of equally untrustworthy, knife-holding sharpears at their back.

Not that they might have connections.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being a low-brow asshole, and what DOES tick me off is when elves take being a low-brow asshole too seriously, and take any little insult like it's worthy of retaliation. I think being rude and crude is great, but yeah, physical violence crosses a line, taking property crosses all the lines, and attempted murder should basically equal a full-blown murderfest in retaliation.

But calling elves shitbags and saying you don't talk to elves and telling every elf you see to fuck off is pretty much fine in my book, esp. because that is the common opinion. It's when it gets more than that that I wonder if people actually understand how elves are SUPPOSED to work.

Anyway, people roleplay a hatred of magickers "too far" as well, to the tune of they know that it is actually very difficult for magickers to exact revenge on them, so the HATE of magickers supercedes the FEAR of magickers that they should have. People should technically be worried about elves and their tribes, but they know that it is actually very difficult for elves to exact revenge so they take it too far.

Anyway, I don't care if I get killed by c elves... I have been PKed by c elves in the rinth before and it was a great experience, totally worth it for everyone involved.. and the sad thing is it only happened to me once, but I have definitely fucked with c elves more than once.

Rude and crude IS great, I can handle this, tooooo a certain extent. Once you hit violence and death threats, instead of an unfriendly exchange of banter, it turns into a whole other game, in which mindless escalation is inevitable, and guess what, due to past experiences, which, if the elf survived them, they're just going to crank it all the way up right at the start because there's too much to lose. Machiavelli once said something like, if you must injure a man, you must injure him to such an extent that he will never be capable of pursuing revenge, or not do it at all. Seems to be true. Just put the bastards in the dirt, problem solved, little mess.

[BadSkeelz]

"Mindless escalation" of violence is not inevitable, and is a fault of the City Elf player as much as the other. Threats and intimidation are thrown at Celves because they are an oppressed species that is barely tolerated by the establishment. They would rightfully feel hurt and stung by this oppression, but if Virtual City Elves responded like some player City Elves did with escalated retaliation, the Elven population would have been exterminated within the major cities by now.

Swallow the pride and run the fuck away. In Allanak, there's a whole quarter where City Elves cannot easily be touched.

[Fujikoma]

"Mindless escalation" of violence is not inevitable, and is a fault of the City Elf player as much as the other. Threats and intimidation are thrown at Celves because they are an oppressed species that is barely tolerated by the establishment. They would rightfully feel hurt and stung by this oppression, but if Virtual City Elves responded like some player City Elves did with escalated retaliation, the Elven population would have been exterminated within the major cities by now.

Swallow the pride and run the fuck away. In Allanak, there's a whole quarter where City Elves cannot easily be touched.

That's the thing, try running away, and they pursue, even to their own inevitable demise.