Play in Tuluk

[Kronibas]

wizturbo, some of the extended subguilds seem like they would help with killing mages, too.

[Incognito]

I'm largely with Armaddict on this one.

The reason Tuluk is played in less is because for many people, the 'feel' of Allanak is what is Armageddon is.  Tuluk has a different feel.  Not  a worse one, just a different one.  So they don't switch away from the one that 'feels' more genuinely seated to them.  This discussion has been had so many times, and trying to turn this into a 'Tuluk needs moar power' thing is frankly just weird.

However, I think there might be some other problems for the low population of Tuluk - that it's (allegedly) so easy to survive up there. In Allanak, if you go out on to the desert alone you're taking your life in your hands. I think this encourages people to hang around and interact with each other, to join clans, to work together against the danger of the Environment (and other players). If everyone in Tuluk can just be a successful indie hunter without any need to plug themselves in to a complicated social fabric, they're going to go their own way.

Both really good points! I guess the relative ease with which one can get to (even walking) newbie-level killable creatures on both sides of Tuluk - might really be affecting population inside Tuluk at any given point.

The other thing is - one can understand that magickers aren't accepted in Tuluki society the way they are in Allanak. However, since the whole "automated internal and peripheral magickal defense" system went into place, AND, with no Undertuluk existing, you're basically ruling out an entire portion of rogue mage and kleptomaniac and psychotic killer population from the Tuluk, and the supporting PCs with sometimes go with them.

Additionally, the low playerbase has it's own cascading vortex.

[Zoan]

Allanak is like ancient Rome, Tuluk ancient Phoenecia. Imagine a proud, glorious Tuluki Phalanx coming by to ruin your shit.

[HavokBlue]

Tuluki military should consist largely of heavily armored mounted  soldiers in the vein of cataphrakts with the ability to field many more archers while Allanak would probably rely on turn on a bunch of lightly armored footmen armed with spears and swords, with many more slingers than archers and Gemmed contingents augmenting the main force

#totalwar

[Zoan]

I thought it'd be the opposite, given Tuluk favors shields and heavier armor, and Allanak is the swords-and-sandals type.

[Patuk]

I have given this far too much thought. Do not rouse the nerd-brain, for its thoughts on tactics are many.

[HavokBlue]

I thought it'd be the opposite, given Tuluk favors shields and heavier armor, and Allanak is the swords-and-sandals type.

but that's basically what I said

[Zoan]

Sorry, you're right. I didn't read it right for some reason.

[Narf]

wizturbo, some of the extended subguilds seem like they would help with killing mages, too.

Master chef? That's the one you were thinking of wasn't it?

[genmaicha]

I never got to get more than a brief taste of undertuluk, it seemed like just the thing Tuluk would spit out at the end of the day and I wanted to see more of it.

[aeglaeca]

• Play a bynner who wants to follow the teachings of Sujaal and bring back northern byn respectability

Noob question. What's Sujaal?

[Lizzie]

• Play a bynner who wants to follow the teachings of Sujaal and bring back northern byn respectability

Noob question. What's Sujaal?

Sadly, Sujaal is a legend that has zero results in the main armageddon website search engine, and whose fame is known only to whatever veteran players of northern PCs are available to tell you IC. And even then, only if you know enough to ask IC, and know who to ask IC.

The map of Tuluk does point out the A'Jinn academy/museum though so you could try starting from there. There is no help file for the academy and it isn't referenced in the history pages of the website that I was able to find.

[X-D]

Actually, considering the history of that PC, it would be info available in the south in a certain clan as well.....and likely on a gdb search as well.

[Taven]

• Play a bynner who wants to follow the teachings of Sujaal and bring back northern byn respectability

Noob question. What's Sujaal?

Sadly, Sujaal is a legend that has zero results in the main armageddon website search engine, and whose fame is known only to whatever veteran players of northern PCs are available to tell you IC. And even then, only if you know enough to ask IC, and know who to ask IC.

The map of Tuluk does point out the A'Jinn academy/museum though so you could try starting from there. There is no help file for the academy and it isn't referenced in the history pages of the website that I was able to find.

Actually, considering the history of that PC, it would be info available in the south in a certain clan as well.....and likely on a gdb search as well.

Indeed, there are GDB posts on this particular individual. Here's a couple:

• Sujaal was not a sponsored role, but rose through the ranks
• More in Sujaal, this time with Tuluk
• Sujaal and the A'Jinn Academy

Most of the GDB posts you'll find call him out as one of their favorites and one of Arm's epic legends. I'm too lazy to dig through and find more posts about what he did. You're welcome to search yourself! There's also the "Find Out IC" option.

[Lizzie]

• Play a bynner who wants to follow the teachings of Sujaal and bring back northern byn respectability

Noob question. What's Sujaal?

Sadly, Sujaal is a legend that has zero results in the main armageddon website search engine, and whose fame is known only to whatever veteran players of northern PCs are available to tell you IC. And even then, only if you know enough to ask IC, and know who to ask IC.

The map of Tuluk does point out the A'Jinn academy/museum though so you could try starting from there. There is no help file for the academy and it isn't referenced in the history pages of the website that I was able to find.

Actually, considering the history of that PC, it would be info available in the south in a certain clan as well.....and likely on a gdb search as well.

Indeed, there are GDB posts on this particular individual. Here's a couple:

• Sujaal was not a sponsored role, but rose through the ranks
• More in Sujaal, this time with Tuluk
• Sujaal and the A'Jinn Academy

Most of the GDB posts you'll find call him out as one of their favorites and one of Arm's epic legends. I'm too lazy to dig through and find more posts about what he did. You're welcome to search yourself! There's also the "Find Out IC" option.

That's all well and good, but it doesn't help new players who don't know anything about Sujaal, who do what they're instructed to do FIRST by going to the help files, finding nothing, going to the game history docs, finding nothing, and then the next step would be to acknowledge that "if it's not in the docs then you're not meant to know." New players, a month from now, won't have read your post to know that there are links on the GDB telling them all about Sujaal, whose existence doesn't appear on the main website.

It isn't in the docs. The GDB aren't the docs. It's also a (very minor) peeve of mine that the official clan docs are now only available on the GDB, and not on a password-protected section of the main website as they used to be. If it's official documentation, it should be on the armageddon.org website. The information about Sujaal is not.

Finding out IC doesn't help a new player find out a damned thing if the current characters who it would make sense to ask IC, are played by players who are too new to have known anything about Sujaal. Or if they are asking characters who it would NOT make sense to ask IC, if those players are RPing it "not making sense to ask them" about it. The existence of Sujaal was a couple of kings' ages ago, so no one living now would have ever known him. Even their parents would not have known him, to have told them about it. So basically it'd need to be written in some tomes somewhere, and whoever has read/write of that language, who has access to and interest in reading those tomes, would be the one to ask IC. They might RP that they'd read about it previously and now have that knowledge in their personal memory. But you still have to find out which PC, if any, would have that in their background.

That's a whole lot of IC work for something that SHOULD be in the official game documentation, for everyone to know about.

[Nyr]

That's all well and good, but it doesn't help new players who don't know anything about Sujaal, who do what they're instructed to do FIRST by going to the help files, finding nothing, going to the game history docs, finding nothing, and then the next step would be to acknowledge that "if it's not in the docs then you're not meant to know." New players, a month from now, won't have read your post to know that there are links on the GDB telling them all about Sujaal, whose existence doesn't appear on the main website.

For what it's worth, generally, "people" are not in helpfiles.  Finding out about past characters would not be found in helpfiles.  For the most part, we are not going to add helpfiles for long-dead PCs or the things they did.  There also isn't necessarily a requirement that all clans (dead/inactive/NPC-only/etc) be listed in helpfiles.  That's not to say that this sort of thing couldn't (or shouldn't) be added in this case or others, but if someone mentions Sujaal on the GDB, searching for it on the GDB does make sense.

It isn't in the docs. The GDB aren't the docs. It's also a (very minor) peeve of mine that the official clan docs are now only available on the GDB, and not on a password-protected section of the main website as they used to be. If it's official documentation, it should be on the armageddon.org website. The information about Sujaal is not.

Having a password-protected section of the website does not ensure that the documentation is only available for the clan for which it is written.  Documentation that is only accessible when you are part of the clan is more secure, requires less work for staff (no need to worry about changing passwords to ensure that docs are only available for the intended parties), and allows any staff member to alter documentation on the fly if there are areas that need adjusting. 

Stuff on the GDB can be documentation if staff says it is, and we do in several cases--specifically, in the case of clans--so it is. 

[Lizzie]

I know Nyr, it's just something about the new system that I don't like. It's not a game-breaker, I just preferred the way it was before. As for Sujaal in particular, the creation of the Academy is pretty much part of Tuluk history. As such I feel it should be included in the timeline docs or at least in the Tuluk-specific history docs. And of course, since Sujaal is the one who created it, his name should be part of that blurb about the Academy's existence. If only to note that he was the founder.

[CodeMaster]

Interesting thoughts Lizzie.  Maybe some players should collaborate (in player collaboration) and write a story about Sujaal for the original submissions, perhaps getting ahold of the original player if possible?

[aeglaeca]

Speaking as a new player, I would really really love to see an important PCs type of section on the wiki. It's nice to see when a game's history has been majorly affected by a PC (or a group of PCs) and hearing about the cool stuff other people have done is sometimes a pretty good advertisement for a game. (Edit: It sure was for me!)

Re: GDB searching, it'd be something I'd be more inclined to do once Arm is less fresh for me. I feel like I'm finding everything out in game right now (or through a quick wiki search) and that seems to be working out okay so far.

(Edit 2: I said wiki. I totally meant whatever the main searchable database is.)

[Patuk]

I really, really don't think an important pc's list is going to end well. I have seen these things in other MUDs, and the OOC resentment they breed is ridiculous.

[aeglaeca]

Well, it'd sure help when someone says 'go about reviving Sujaal's teachings!' and the poor noob in the corner (me) has no idea what that means.

[Desertman]

Allanak has always felt more dirty, more rugged, and more dangerous to me.

The people who make characters in Allanak tend to make more believable rugged, dirty, and dangerous characters, which are the characters I prefer to be around.

The criminal elements in Allanak are stronger, and in general, much more prevalent and in my opinion, much more exciting. Making a criminal in Tuluk is just....meh. Criminals in Tuluk don't even feel like criminals to me. They feel like unofficial militia, more or less.

The desert around Allanak has always felt much more dangerous and hardcore to me.

When my characters go to Tuluk, I feel like they are sort of on vacation. Which can be nice at times. I have felt that way for years. Maybe I have a false sense of security, but outside of getting Templared, so long as they avoid bahamets, the danger level is "meh" at best.

I like Tuluk for what it is. I like the surrounding environments for what they are. I like to play there from time to time, but the reasons above are why I generally prefer to spend the bulk of my time in the south.

Personal views and preferences. *shrug*

Edited to Add: With all of that being said, I LOVE the contrast between the two. I like that Tuluk is what it is because it makes the south seem even more rugged, dirty, and hardcore to have that to compare it against and actually experience that major contrast when you travel IG.

[Harmless]

I personally respect that "important PCs" isn't a part of the website. I would like it to remain that way.

As for the new players: Don't worry about knowing who "important PCs" are or were. It doesn't matter to you as a player. It will only rarely matter to your PCs -- and that's what counts, whether or not your PC should or would know about it. (Answer is, no, in 90% of cases, and if the answer is yes, your PC is poised to learn who they are already)

[Fujikoma]

Figuring out things you don't know about IG is just a part of the process. Not to sound like an ass, but it's also part of the fun. Also, those clueless tells you're exhibiting IG should be giving everyone the hint that maybe there's some important code or social elements your character needs to learn, if it's not, I'd be very dissappointed. Keep in mind, when displeasure is expressed with your character, it's not OOC them to you, it's IC, OOC they know you're still figuring things out but the fact remains they have to stay IC or they provide a bad example that could have echoing effects.

[Desertman]

Figuring out things you don't know about IG is just a part of the process. Not to sound like an ass, but it's also part of the fun.

This. So much this.

Some of the best times you are ever going to have in Armageddon is when you are new and you don't know a lot of the secrets and a lot of the limitations of the world and the game. Dream big and go for it.