City-elves and stuff.

[Malken]

PC gith would bring a lot to the game by adding actual constant danger in the wilds.  Staff supported raiders is better than not as they would have a coded home base and not be a temporary thing like current raiders. Ever present danger.

Also an alien tribal mindset unlike anything else would be fantastic and create conflict for desert elves and human tribals alike.

3/4 of the playerbase can't come to grasp with the elven mentality, can you imagine the gith one?

Shit, with the playerbase we have we're pretty lucky that some of them actually manage to rp a semi-functional human being hah hah hah.

[Barsook]

Sounds like halflings in the North.

[Patuk]

I'd be a lot more inclined to agree if the PC celf tribal structure wasn't already in place, Saellyn. There are two tribes that functioned, and now do not, for reasons that Nyr has told us will not be disclosed. Couple that with the amount of people offering to help out with the building effort everytime any project is mentioned, and I really don't think the issue here is 'building is hard.'

[Saellyn]

I'd be a lot more inclined to agree if the PC celf tribal structure wasn't already in place, Saellyn. There are two tribes that functioned, and now do not, for reasons that Nyr has told us will not be disclosed. Couple that with the amount of people offering to help out with the building effort everytime any project is mentioned, and I really don't think the issue here is 'building is hard.'

Offering to help and actually building are two very different things. Like I said, I have experience with it. No amount of offered help is going to make the job any easier staff side.

The problem with getting help is now suddenly you have people who have designed the rooms, who aren't on staff, who have a leg up because they know about an area that other people don't. That's not fair.

[Nyr]

I'd be a lot more inclined to agree if the PC celf tribal structure wasn't already in place, Saellyn. There are two tribes that functioned, and now do not, for reasons that Nyr has told us will not be disclosed. Couple that with the amount of people offering to help out with the building effort everytime any project is mentioned, and I really don't think the issue here is 'building is hard.'

You definitely have some strong opinions.  We acknowledge that.  Thank you for offering your opinions that differ from the staff view expressed here or elsewhere.  We appreciate it!

[MeTekillot]

Do you really? :smiley face:

[Saellyn]

I've personally been involved in that C-elf structure way back (I played a Jaxa Pah type) and it really didn't add anything big to the Rinth at all. If you want a C-elf tribe, I'd suggest proposing it to staff with documentation and how they would act, things they would do, how they react to certain situations. The issue with the Jaxa Pah is that they were so niche that nobody -really- wanted to play them, and it was -really- hard to actually get into the Jaxa Pah (which is normal for elves, but I digress).

The Jaxa Pah offered nothing that the Guild didn't already offer.

[MeTekillot]

I think the Jaxa Pah added the Guild for the elves, didn't they? Are elves allowed in the Guild?

[Saellyn]

I think the Jaxa Pah added the Guild for the elves, didn't they? Are elves allowed in the Guild?

I... think they might be now? I'm not sure.

[Nyr]

OK, thread created.  This is the one for discussing city-elves this time around.  You can find the previous discussions in a few places.  I'll link those up shortly.

[Malken]

There's really nothing to discuss. Allowing city elf characters in the game without a coded clan for them to be part of is ridiculous, but we had a giant thread about that in the past where a few said you could make up a virtual clan and many agreed that this was even more ridiculous because you can't virtually represent the backing of an elf clan which is what makes the strength of an elf to begin with, his or her clan.

Either create a damned clan already or tell Patuk to shut it

[Inks]

Gith already have documentation and quite extensive docs from what I understand, to answer your question Saellyn. And three karma would be fine.

[Adhira]

Gith already have documentation and quite extensive docs from what I understand. to answer your question Saellyn. And three karma would be fine.

No they don't.

[Saellyn]

Please don't pick and choose what part of my post to answer. Go for broke or go home. I'm making you do the work that staff would have to do to implement gith as a playable pc race.

Gith already have documentation and quite extensive docs from what I understand. to answer your question Saellyn. And three karma would be fine.

No they don't.

So right back at you. What sort of documentation do Gith need to be a fully fleshed out, playable PC race? This is the same with elves. It has to work, within the defined structure of Gith society. You have to create their mindset, their rituals, their beliefs, their everything. You have to DESIGN this -entire- race.

How many can play it? 3 karma players? Okay. How many 3 karma players or special apps or whatnot are ALLOWED to play the Gith at one time? How many PCs can there be? What kind of gear do they wear? Weapons? How do they use them? I know for a fact the desert elf tribes, and even some elf tribes, had "fighting styles" rpwise that they would use, and a focus on what made their societies thrive.

[Inks]

Ah I always assumed from those Gith logs. I retract the first statement.
Also be less trollish Saline.

On topic: City elf clans go. Having played some before this would be great.

[Saellyn]

Ah I always assumed from those Gith logs. I retract the first statement.
Also be less trollish Saline.

On topic: City elf clans go. Having played some before this would be great.

It is on topic, this is city-elves "and stuff". I'm not trolling.

It's Sailin'. Not Saline.

[Patuk]

I think that clan documentation can be changed just fine. If Tuluk can get noble Houses scrapped in enormous public displays, others getting their structure altered, have templar orders merge, and have an ancient caste of nobility removed, I think the Jaxa Pah can be made more playable without any coded building needing to be done,

Also, no, the Guild does not allow elves. If you're an elf, go join Kurac or the Byn. Then be that guy nobody likes because they hold up everyone since they insist on walking goddammit Jim just get a beetle.

Freaking half-elves have more clan opportunities than elves do. I have seen half-elf legionnaires. Non-Kuraci GMH occasionally hire them as well, which is something I can see happening a little more plausibly.

But the fact of the matter is that a race that is virtually immenselypopulated and widespread is consistently also the race with the fewest amount of citybound players. Tweaking isn't what is needed for them, celves need boosting. The removal of their tribes is just one of many incentives people have not to play elves,

[HavokBlue]

I've personally been involved in that C-elf structure way back (I played a Jaxa Pah type) and it really didn't add anything big to the Rinth at all. If you want a C-elf tribe, I'd suggest proposing it to staff with documentation and how they would act, things they would do, how they react to certain situations. The issue with the Jaxa Pah is that they were so niche that nobody -really- wanted to play them, and it was -really- hard to actually get into the Jaxa Pah (which is normal for elves, but I digress).

The Jaxa Pah offered nothing that the Guild didn't already offer.

I think a lot of people wanted to play in the Jaxa.

It's just the fact that joining after chargen was basically impossible and you couldn't app in, despite that being the logical way. The same thing applies to the Akai Sjir.

[Patuk]

I did app into the Akai Sjir, and some others did as well. I can't comment on the Jaxa Pah.

I can see how the Jaxa Pah would have it hard, though. They'd have all the recruiting issues the Guild has coupled with elven paranoia and testing. Good luck.

[Nyr]

Previous allanaki city elf thread -- http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,46421.375.html

Something asked there that wasn't answered officially by staff was

What happened to the Jaxa Pah?

The answer is that it was closed.  It was closed because it doesn't really fit with the mold of what we want to see out of city-elf tribal roles.  It set itself up as a more dominant power than it was.  It erased several smaller groups and emerged as a powerhouse.  It shouldn't have been one.  After one tackle of the documentation to try and bind this tribe together consisting of multiple tribes and concepts all in one, it was closed and tabled for later discussion.

What happened to the Akai Sjir?

The answer is that it was closed.  It was closed because it also didn't really fit with that mold we wanted to see for city-elf tribes.  In that particular case it had other documentation issues that made it difficult.  In a word, they were too civilized.  To elaborate further, they were too much like a merchant house and not enough like an elven tribe.  The docs were tackled here, too, but there is only so much a documentation overhaul can do without doing IC changes that would merit serious change.  As player interest waned in the clan, we decided to eventually close the clan as well.

Sometimes new things get tried and they don't work.  That happens and it sucks, but when it happens we learn from it.  Sometimes going back to the old way of doing things works, and sometimes it doesn't.  There is currently a definitive project to open/reopen city-elf tribes, taking into account the things we've learned from the above and apply them to any city-elf group that exists in the future. Why hasn't it been done yet?  Sometimes, life and stuff happens, and a clan group might end up with less staffers than usual.  That had been the case for quite a while for that particular group as it was rolling with one admin and one ST.  I know all too well that when a clan group is short staffed, it is tough to focus on new projects in favor of supporting existing clans and existing players.  In this case, that team definitely needed more support before it had more responsibility put upon it for such a task.  It is getting that support now (you may have seen the 6 new/former STs we brought on board, they're tooling around).  This particular project will be picked up.  And it probably won't be done as fast as you want or in the way that you want.

So that's why. 

Also, while staff and players refer to those population stats on the GDB, I'm pretty sure it's not official documentation-worthy stuff.  It really needs a look so that it can be (if need be) put into official documentation.

[Patuk]

Some official numbers would be lovely, yes. it isn't too big of a deal, though,

[Inks]

Just wanted to say I enjoyed reading that response. Cheers.

[valeria]

Here's the thing that frustrates me about the city-elf hiatus: you can't even make up for it on your own.  You can do an elf family role call, but you can't say that your family is part of a virtual tribe.  This makes me go   It seems completely contrary to everything elf.

[MeTekillot]

NO TRIBES

[HavokBlue]