City-elves and stuff.

[Patuk]

Once city elf tribes (what tribes?) become a thing again, they will have metal katanas and secret elf magickers of doom and a coded zipline system to traverse the city in two seconds flat.

It has been a year to implement something which could plausibly be done in a week. It is the only explanation that makes any sense at all.

[Gimfalisette]

It has been a year to implement something which could plausibly be done in a week.

[Nyr]

It has been a year to implement something which could plausibly be done in a week. It is the only explanation that makes any sense at all.

There will always be a disconnect between what players want and what staff wants.  In between the two is what staff is willing to work on, but currently is unable to do (due to existing work, focus on other areas, etc).  Even with player assistance there is a bottleneck of staff work that is not insignificant, despite any claims that it is not all that hard to code up a tribe and give it documentation.  (I know you weren't saying it is a cakewalk, but we do apply a lot more review to tribal documentation these days--you might notice that in any of the revamped tribes out there.)

It has been a year in which other things have definitely been implemented, but not this thing that you are desiring.  That sucks for you and for the things that you want to see, and that is a tough thing to see in any environment, especially a game that you've invested time into and want to see grow in a particular way.  Unfortunately, this is something everyone will need to get used to on a general level.  You won't always get the thing you want in a timely manner (sometimes, not at all, depending on what it is).  If possible, one way to look at it would be to try to understand the reasons why it is either a) not a top priority, b) more difficult to enact than you think it is, or c) just not something staff is willing to look at.  Seeing as how I pulled that quote from a thread about delves, staff isn't blind to the player interest in elven tribes seeing some change/life/etc.  We have discussed this issue before staff-side and there has even been some more recent talk about solutions. 

However, we've also discussed the issue of revealing things before their time, and this is one of those areas where (unfortunately) all you would really get to see from us is an acknowledgement that yeah, this sucks at this time.

[Patuk]

I don't want a debate on these terms again. I think I'd rather stay facetious.

[Bushranger]

It has been a year to implement something which could plausibly be done in a week. It is the only explanation that makes any sense at all.

There will always be a disconnect between what players want and what staff wants.  In between the two is what staff is willing to work on, but currently is unable to do (due to existing work, focus on other areas, etc).  Even with player assistance there is a bottleneck of staff work that is not insignificant, despite any claims that it is not all that hard to code up a tribe and give it documentation.  (I know you weren't saying it is a cakewalk, but we do apply a lot more review to tribal documentation these days--you might notice that in any of the revamped tribes out there.)

It has been a year in which other things have definitely been implemented, but not this thing that you are desiring.  That sucks for you and for the things that you want to see, and that is a tough thing to see in any environment, especially a game that you've invested time into and want to see grow in a particular way.  Unfortunately, this is something everyone will need to get used to on a general level.  You won't always get the thing you want in a timely manner (sometimes, not at all, depending on what it is).  If possible, one way to look at it would be to try to understand the reasons why it is either a) not a top priority, b) more difficult to enact than you think it is, or c) just not something staff is willing to look at.  Seeing as how I pulled that quote from a thread about delves, staff isn't blind to the player interest in elven tribes seeing some change/life/etc.  We have discussed this issue before staff-side and there has even been some more recent talk about solutions. 

However, we've also discussed the issue of revealing things before their time, and this is one of those areas where (unfortunately) all you would really get to see from us is an acknowledgement that yeah, this sucks at this time.

TL;DR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--OA0y9448s

[Gimfalisette]

oh god Bushranger thanks now I'm going to be on a Glee soundtrack spree

[Bushranger]

[Nyr]

Is this a case of too many cooks spoil the soup, or that the kitchen is understaffed?

I was making the case for "neither".  To use your example, the soup desired is not on the menu.  The restaurant took it off of the menu.  They have other soups.  You might not like them, but that's okay, people like what they want to like.  They've also said they want to bring that soup back, but it might have a new recipe that better fits the tastes of the restaurant.

Also, the meal is free, the cooks aren't paid, and you have to bring some of your own cooking supplies if you want a stellar meal.

[Saellyn]

Is this a case of too many cooks spoil the soup, or that the kitchen is understaffed?

I was making the case for "neither".  To use your example, the soup desired is not on the menu.  The restaurant took it off of the menu.  They have other soups.  You might not like them, but that's okay, people like what they want to like.  They've also said they want to bring that soup back, but it might have a new recipe that better fits the tastes of the restaurant.


I'll bring the scrab steaks.

[RogueGunslinger]

Well, maybe if we talk about it enough it'll get put back on the menu, because yeah, city elf clans would be sweet.

[Patuk]

There's that, too.

[Malken]

So city elves = Mcrib?

[Armaddict]

Is this a case of too many cooks spoil the soup, or that the kitchen is understaffed?

I was making the case for "neither".  To use your example, the soup desired is not on the menu.  The restaurant took it off of the menu.  They have other soups.  You might not like them, but that's okay, people like what they want to like.  They've also said they want to bring that soup back, but it might have a new recipe that better fits the tastes of the restaurant.

Also, the meal is free, the cooks aren't paid, and you have to bring some of your own cooking supplies if you want a stellar meal.

This just in:  Doctors without borders volunteers no longer doing medicine because of heavy workload, decide to run pharmacy instead due to easier hours:  Program ceases, because volunteers run it and program is dropped.

[MeTekillot]

To be fair, they do receive funding. Maybe we should start donating to Arm.

[Malken]

To be fair, they do receive funding. Maybe we should start donating to Arm.

You guys fund it with all the insane hours you put in it.

You guys are volunteers too, don't ever think that Staff shouldn't be as grateful to have you as you are to have them.

[Gimfalisette]

This just in:  Doctors without borders volunteers no longer doing medicine because of heavy workload, decide to run pharmacy instead due to easier hours:  Program ceases, because volunteers run it and program is dropped.

I love this game, but you just compared it to something actually important. It's a great hobby, but it's not saving lives.

[Nyr]

As for the time involved, this is what it took just to add some echoes and different text for the weather command.  Good thread to review.

[Saellyn]

I speak from experience in that it's -not- easy to do coding at all. It's a complicated pain in the ass process especially on less forgiving MUD codebases.

Building is just as difficult. You guys make it seem like it's easy to build, but when you build you also have to link those built rooms to the appropriate areas, which takes a lot of time. Designing an item isn't easy either. You have to set its ldesc, sdesc, mdesc, make sure its stats are balanced based on the type of item it is, set the price for the item (accounting for haggle prices), and do the weight properly. Plus you have to make sure it fits the world theme AND there's a need for the item.

If you're a builder, a low level builder, this usually means you're talking with higher level staff before you even implement the item, and in that situation you have to make a case for why you think that item will add more flavor to the game. You have to account for who the item is meant for, what region, what sect of people, if it's a rare item or a common item.

Rooms are the same way. Who is the room meant for? Some joe schmoe who happens to go exploring Region X to find Item Y and happens to stumble across this new Area Z (the name of my next zombie game)?

Or is it meant to flesh out an area that everyone else goes to? Will the room add a significant flavor to the game? Is it just filler? Is the description of the room up to standard? Will it have mobs? Items? Forageables?

Forageables have to be added individually to areas too. What can be foraged in this area, if anything? What hidden areas might there be? Why does this item exist?


Stop being so selfish and take two seconds to go build a MUD. Try building 500 rooms. Try building 30 rooms. It takes a lot of time and effort to do this, and it's draining.

[Inks]

Eh..I have noticed lots of little additions lately. I'm content for now. That being said PC gith.

[Saellyn]

Eh..I have noticed lots of little additions lately. I'm content for now. That being said PC gith.

Another good one.

What do PC gith offer to the pbase that players can't already perform?

[Barsook]

Eh..I have noticed lots of little additions lately. I'm content for now. That being said PC gith.

Same.

[HavokBlue]

Eh..I have noticed lots of little additions lately. I'm content for now. That being said PC gith.

Another good one.

What do PC gith offer to the pbase that players can't already perform?

It's really hard to play a PC raider without coded/staff support

[Inks]

PC gith would bring a lot to the game by adding actual constant danger in the wilds.  Staff supported raiders is better than not as they would have a coded home base and not be a temporary thing like current raiders. Ever present danger.

Also an alien tribal mindset unlike anything else would be fantastic and create conflict for desert elves and human tribals alike.

[MeTekillot]

Idk about PC gith. Staff-sponsored raiders, sure, so they can still go in the cities and maybe hodge-podge once in a while if their gith clannies aren't online.

[Saellyn]

PC gith would bring a lot to the game by adding actual constant danger in the wilds.  Staff supported raiders is better than not as they would have a coded home base and not be a temporary thing like current raiders. Ever present danger.

So constant and ever-present danger, with a coded location that supports their growth. Okay. What karma level, if any, should Gith be? How many should be allowed in game at one time? What kind of concepts are allowed in the Gith, and what kinds of concepts aren't? What kind of documentation would you need to fully flesh out a playable Gith race?