Karma assessment.

[X-D]

Oh, I never said it was hard to do, that is why I actually do them, I am just from before that was needed.

So I still have it in my mind..ya know?

On the bright side...there are at least 60 PCs in the last 2 years that lived longer because of pk reports.

Often goes something like this.

(my thoughts not my PC)
Well, I should kill this person.
But then I will have to file a PK report...
Fuck it, I don't feel like it.
Come up with excuse to leave PC live.

[CodeMaster]

I never knew there was such a thing as a PK report.  'help kill' mentions you should wish up if possible before you PK, but nothing about a PK report.  Maybe the existence of PK reports should also be mentioned in help kill (I'll idea this in game).

[Marauder Moe]

PK reports are only required for templars and soldiers, IIRC.

[Reiloth]

PK reports are only required for templars and soldiers, IIRC.

Not exactly true. I think if you are someone who kills a lot of people, you get asked by Staff to submit PK reports and to wish up (as a courtesy) before killing people. Like a Whiran or a nuts assassin with max'd backstab and an itchy trigger finger. But I think when you accept roles that are high PK (Like the Red Fang, I remember being told to submit PK reports), you're informed at the beginning of the role.

[BadSkeelz]

There are roles that don't involve killing a lot of people? 

[CodeMaster]

Just noticed the final bullet points of 'help reports' describes a good character report as including "if your character kills another PC [or at least thinks s/he did ]".

[CodeMaster]

Some stream-of-consciousness bullshit from a player who doesn't have any karma...

If you look at Hollywood, there are actors who 'make' the movie they're in.  Johnny Depp was cast in Pirates of the Carribbean because the producers knew what they were going to get out of him - an extremely memorable performance that would build a massive audience for the ongoing franchise.  At this point in his career, Depp can pick and choose his roles, and he is, by way of analogy, a "high karma" (i.e., A-list) actor.

Unfortunately, there's no "recipe" for becoming an A-list actor, much to the chagrin of all the hopeful actors living in LA.  You either have it or you don't (of course luck plays a factor, as well, moreso than in our little community).  Creating memorable characters that influence and color the game world for others is one of those things that some people are good at, and others aren't so good at.

And just like in Hollywood, the movie probably wouldn't be as good if we let Norm MacDonald play Jack Sparrow out of a sense of "fairness".

[BadSkeelz]

Fortunately, all us would-be-actors waiting tables are allowed (and often encouraged!) to punch the Johnny Depps of the world in the face. The system works!

[Zoan]

To ruin CodeMaster's analogy, Jim Carrey was their first choice and they couldn't get him.

[Delirium]

To ruin CodeMaster's analogy, Jim Carrey was their first choice and they couldn't get him.

... are you.... are you.... serious...?

[Zoan]

Yep.

[Kismetic]

[Harmless]

Some stream-of-consciousness bullshit from a player who doesn't have any karma...

If you look at Hollywood, there are actors who 'make' the movie they're in.  Johnny Depp was cast in Pirates of the Carribbean because the producers knew what they were going to get out of him - an extremely memorable performance that would build a massive audience for the ongoing franchise.  At this point in his career, Depp can pick and choose his roles, and he is, by way of analogy, a "high karma" (i.e., A-list) actor.

Unfortunately, there's no "recipe" for becoming an A-list actor, much to the chagrin of all the hopeful actors living in LA.  You either have it or you don't (of course luck plays a factor, as well, moreso than in our little community).  Creating memorable characters that influence and color the game world for others is one of those things that some people are good at, and others aren't so good at.

And just like in Hollywood, the movie probably wouldn't be as good if we let Norm MacDonald play Jack Sparrow out of a sense of "fairness".

This analogy is pretty decent. It does little to make me feel better about it.

[RogueGunslinger]

I don't like the analogy becuase Karma is trust, not skill.

You can be the best roleplayer(actor) in the world and still never get any karma if you aren't doing the right things(character reports, longevity, special apping above your limit).

[Reiloth]

Harmless, I don't think anyone is going to make you feel better about karma assessment. That's up to you.

[TheWanderer]

I don't like the analogy becuase Karma is trust, not skill.

I'm certainly hoping it's a little of both, and though trust would be required, I'd hope skill is heavily weighed in for the upper echelon.

I've always expected a certain degree of it to be shown by any role that has a pretty high karma requirement. I suppose you could put it under trust in the same way you could say, "Hey, I trust you to be grammatically correct in your interactions with other players and show a certain level of skill in your attempt to bring the world alive and add flavor."

---

"Hold close to the warm embrace of the tree line for fear of that most pernicious evil: the mage."

"yo', inc mages. stick to trees, biatches."

[Zoan]

FWIW team, I think every single one of you deserve AT LEAST two/three more karma than you presently have, because you're all fantastic.

Failing that, just spec-app every so often and let me kill you/let you kill me.

[Harmless]

I don't like the analogy becuase Karma is trust, not skill.

You can be the best roleplayer(actor) in the world and still never get any karma if you aren't doing the right things(character reports, longevity, special apping above your limit).

In the same way directors trust that when they hire johnny depp to be their main character he'll draw an audience, the imms trust that when they give a certain role to a high karma player, the role will be played correctly.

The analogy is accurate. The only way in which it is different is that actors can't special app. The special app is what saves the system from being exactly like this.

Anyway. I file reports and live for as long as I can, but special apps are new to me. I have been doing extended subguilds aplenty, but it hasn't exactly helped my ability to get noticed by the imms, for the reasons outlined above.

That's why I'm just waiting on my special app at the moment. Special apps are the only thing that make me feel better about karma. For all other intents and purposes, it's like codemaster describes.


That might be the biggest takeaway from this thread. extended subguilds are fun as hell. But it's kind of a self gratifying fun. It doesn't add that much to your character's plot potential. At least, it hasn't in my experience.

Rather than wait on extended subguild apps, for the next few years of my arma gaming career I will special app instead. That would also be my advice for pretty much anyone in my situation, who may feel that despite their best efforts, their characters aren't doing enough to be noticed by staff: special app above your karma limit for restricted mainguilds and races.

Thanks all.

[Lizzie]

Harmless, does it occur to you that maybe you haven't attracted staff notice because you haven't done anything worth noticing? Or maybe you -have- attracted staff notice, but the notes were very specific and pointing out situations involving other characters, and they have to edit out those comments when they present the account notes to you.

I've had account notes twice. My first set was shortly following the death of my character Sgt. Tola of Kurac. I was in regular communication with the staff, I drove plotlines, I "did stuff," got involved in all kinds of insane sick crazy shit (this was just before the copper war, when magicks were sploding all over the place) and was assassinated in a pretty spectacular way. I had the "wants feedback" toggle on.

Here's my notes:
added 1 karma, making 1 total, for Long lived char, consistently played.
Thinks to go along with play. Worth seeing what she can do.
added 1 karma, making 2 total, for Excellent play with Tola in Kurac
set account Lizzie's karma to 3, Long lived play with Tola, getting
involved as a leader, oocly responsible

Comments:

#Landra# shudders and cringes, then brings her hands up to her head and
rubs her temples.
Nice emote. Showing good roleplay and seems to be catching on to the world
nicely.
Pro'ly one of the most impressive noobs I've encountered--both on IG and
on the GDB.
Requested Landra's storage, has notified Salarr staff.
Received kudos from account Loup for Tola.
rec'd nice compliment for play as Tola

Received kudos from account Braxs for play with Tola.

Tola was my second character. Landra was my first. Landra did mostly nothing at all, which was why I stored her after only a month or so. I got karma for playing Landra, and more actual comments about my play of my very boring, very bored first character, than I did with the character that actually got neck-deep into astounding shit.

In my second account notes, which were just in the last year, there were other notes that hadn't appeared in the first set, that dated back to that first set. They'd been edited out at the time. It's very possible that the same applies to you. That you just don't get to see those notes yet, and whatever is in them, might be preventing you from getting the karma. Or, you just might not be interesting enough to get staff notice. I was definitely not interesting with my first character Landra, but apparently someone was watching. Maybe they were more bored than I was at the time

[Harmless]

Harmless, does it occur to you that maybe you haven't attracted staff notice because you haven't done anything worth noticing?

Yeah, because I pretty much said this.

Or maybe you -have- attracted staff notice, but the notes were very specific and pointing out situations involving other characters, and they have to edit out those comments when they present the account notes to you.

Maybe so. I would have no way of knowing, but when my timer ticks down to ask for account notes again I intend to check to see if any such notes exist... moreover, Nyr reassured me they may consider going back and adding a few if they think of them, and at the very least, they will be able to give me feedback on to 20+ reports I've clocked in over the past two years or so.

[Riev]

I wonder if part of the "issue" at hand is that firstly, there are still people that have karma from back when it was (honestly) given willy nilly because someone was in a good mood, and these days its more rigid?

And secondly, despite its supposedly rigid roots, there's still not really a rubric or guidelines for karma because in the end, its the trust of under a dozen people in this 200+ person game, who aren't on all the time? Especially as you get higher up the "pay" scale (with the exception of Nyr, who may well be the Ghost in the Machine).

I mean. I'll probably never get karma, but thats not as much because staff never see me (though, yes, I've been told by clan staff before that they don't observe during my playtimes), as it is because I'm an untrustworthy twink who in almost 10 years has only killed PCs due to an accident.





I should kill more people.

[Fujikoma]

I should kill more people.

That's what I've been doing.

[RogueGunslinger]

I should definitely kill more people as well.

[BadSkeelz]

I won't lie. All these butthurt threads were getting me down until I logged in on a whim and PKed somebody.

[Case]

I have very limited tastes in roles I like to play. And have fewer things I play well. I also communicate poorly, either too emotionally, or not enough or clearly enough. I've done all right with karma but I gave up having the chance to play my dream roles a while ago - both from a feeling I won't ever get there and the belief I won't be able to rp well enough with things I don't enjoy well enough to justify it.

Honestly, I think the karma system is fair and reasonable - staff have been very patient and tolerant of me, if not supportive and very helpful and caring. We just have to come to terms with the idea we can't play whatever we want when we want, or even that we might not be as good as we think. So were I to return, I'd play and enjoy what I have, because at the end of the day, it's just a game and it owes me nothing.