Discussion for new character restrictions to the city-states

[Nyr]

I'm curious, does the chargen remove what you're not permitted like it does for races and guilds? Ojos qué no ven, corazón qué no siente.

I'm not clear on what you are asking...

You know how if you don't have that karma won't see delf or hg or Viv etc? When get into the HoK with your first char, does the map only show Nak or Tuluk?

I see what you mean.  Yes, we have some fine coding folks that have made that the case.

[ShaLeah]

I'm curious, does the chargen remove what you're not permitted like it does for races and guilds? Ojos qué no ven, corazón qué no siente.

I'm not clear on what you are asking...

You know how if you don't have that karma won't see delf or hg or Viv etc? When get into the HoK with your first char, does the map only show Nak or Tuluk?

I see what you mean.  Yes, we have some fine coding folks that have made that the case.

So they won't really KNOW there's others places. That rocks. You guys rock.

[Desertman]

I'm assuming the "Rinth" isn't being considered as "Allanak" for a starting location?

Just making sure since the Rinth is technically in Allanak, but is in fact its own starting location.

[Rahnevyn]

So they won't really KNOW there's others places. That rocks. You guys rock.

Well, we're not exactly hiding the documentation, and in fact you can still pick your hometown as Red Storm, Luir's, or the Labyrinth. You just can't start there. So they might know. Then again they might not.

I'm assuming the "Rinth" isn't being considered as "Allanak" for a starting location?

Right, the Labyrinth is not pickable as an origin. You can start in Allanak (aka the Gaj) or Tuluk (aka the Firestorm).

[JustAnotherGuy]

Right, the Labyrinth is not pickable as an origin. You can start in Allanak (aka the Gaj) or Tuluk (aka the Firestorm).

Wasn't there some looking into making the Sanctuary back into the starting point for Tuluk?  Thought I remember Nyr bringing this up.

[BleakOne]

Right, the Labyrinth is not pickable as an origin. You can start in Allanak (aka the Gaj) or Tuluk (aka the Firestorm).

Wasn't there some looking into making the Sanctuary back into the starting point for Tuluk?  Thought I remember Nyr bringing this up.

It would be really awkward to start in the Sanctuary if you spawn in Tuluk, but are not a Tuluki citizen.

Really awkward as in, potentially lethal.

[Asche]

But cutting down on races or guilds, even if only for first PC would drive people away...already does somewhat with the low selection they have with 0 karma.

You mean people that otherwise would play the game don't because they can't play whatever they want right away?

I've been playing for about a year and a half, and regularly for about a year of that time. While this change doesn't upset me too much, I'm going to put myself into the 'not in favor' camp. I accepted the recommendation and started my first character in 'Nak, but it wasn't long before I tried a spice sifter in Storm. When I read the docs for this game's lore, there were tons of concepts I wanted to try that wouldn't fit in either 'Nak or Tuluk, and frankly, this comes across as more of an attempt to concentrate RP into these two areas than to facilitate ease of play for newcomers. As to your quote, I personally don't appreciate how dismissive it is. "Oh, you mean those players who can't be a little patient to play the roles they want to play?" I don't think its unreasonable to read about a concept being offered on one of thousands of muds, getting interested in it, then being told "Whoah there, kid. You aren't ready for Luir's.  Try a Bynner in 'Nak! Just don't explore too far north.", and being a bit irritated. Frankly, I think for player retention, its a bad move. The arbitrary restrictions on playability are over restrictive as is. I've invested a ton of effort into this game, and only recently got my first point of karma, and the longevity one at that (the 'participant' ribbon given to the fat kid on field day). I'd hate for players even newer than me to have to jump through more hoops just to play what they want to play. This game requires a LOT more effort to get acquainted with than say, New Worlds. That doesn't make it a worse game, it just means we need to watch how steep we make that learning curve.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Having a new player start in Nak or Luk is really not making the curve steeper. It's really making it a lot more gentle.

[Jakhal]

Sitting comfortably on the fence between both camps, I just wanted to throw in my two 'sid that I agree with Staff's overall assurance.

If they show data suggesting that these changes are losing first time ever players, they can always re-open the options back up and go back to the drawing board.

There will always be new traffic and even a remote shot at keeping more of that new traffing and infusing more new blood into this game is worth it, especially since
it's not a 'Point of No Return' move.

[Bogre]

Add the 'rinth!

[QuillDipper]

I think adding the 'Rinth wouldn't be too bad. Its essentially part of 'Nak, so it isn't too hard to bail if you decide against it, but its one of the grittiest experiences in the game  and has the potential to attract people looking for that.

Maybe having some kind of highly recommended sign/warning with Nak and Tuluk, and a huge warning with the Labyrinth. Red Storm is -not- for new players, and Luir's is a bit too out of the way for a first PC. The 'Rinth, might make the cut though.

[RogueGunslinger]

I think adding the 'Rinth wouldn't be too bad.

You can easily make you background Rinthi and just start in allanak, walk few room it takes to get into the 'rinth.

And then you get those sweet 'nakki starter shops.

[FreeRangeVestric]

I think adding the 'Rinth wouldn't be too bad.

You can easily make you background Rinthi and just start in allanak, walk few room it takes to get into the 'rinth.

And then you get those sweet 'nakki starter shops.

A first-time PC wouldn't know it's so easy to do. And 'hey guyz, which way to the rinth?' probably wouldn't go over so well.

[solera]

I think adding the 'Rinth wouldn't be too bad.

You can easily make you background Rinthi and just start in allanak, walk few room it takes to get into the 'rinth.

And then you get those sweet 'nakki starter shops.

I always thought you had to be dressed right for the alleys. No?

I tend to be in favour of keeping the 'Rinth.
Bad things that can happen to newbs
1. Start killing the local  street life and get slaughtered. Not much different than taking the same approach to the wildlife out the gates.
2. Get bored, find your way into Southside, and hopefully learn what being a 'Rinther means. Probably end up dead/locked up/Bynned.

[RogueGunslinger]

I think adding the 'Rinth wouldn't be too bad.

You can easily make you background Rinthi and just start in allanak, walk few room it takes to get into the 'rinth.

And then you get those sweet 'nakki starter shops.

I always thought you had to be dressed right for the alleys. No?

Yep. This is possible in the 'nakki starter shops. There's a whole shop for the downtrodden.

[Saellyn]

I think this is a good move, after some thought. If I had started in Red Storm I might have quit the game.

Actually, I wouldn't have, because I had a friend who played and he was well into it for a little while before dropping out, but I stayed strong. Quite happy with it too.

[Rahnevyn]

Having a new player start in Nak or Luk is really not making the curve steeper. It's really making it a lot more gentle.

Well said.

[Delirium]

I kneejerk disliked this change, but honestly, I think it matters less where you start and more whether you get interaction - I know that part of the reason I play today is because I was almost immediately roped into Durg's crew while standing lost and confused on the North Road in Tuluk. So if this leads to more newbies getting interaction - great. The rabblerousing liberal in me would still prefer that players be given the choice and a notice put up in the HoK.

[Asche]

Having a new player start in Nak or Luk is really not making the curve steeper. It's really making it a lot more gentle.

I don't really see why anyone would think that. The lore behind, say, Luir's or Red Storm is FAR simpler than the caste system of Tuluk, or how the Gemmed should be interacted with as a 'Nak native, especially for a new player. In terms of easy comprehension, 'Nak and Tuluk are by far the most complex starting location. The only advantage to starting there is the prevalence of the playerbase to explain things to you. The curve for understanding 'its basically owned by a merchant House called Kurac' is a lot less of a bump than either of the two. I dunno, I just think that a lot of major staff decisions since I've joined the game have limited roleplay, or made the world smaller in some way, to fit more with someone's idea of how the game should be played.

[Thunkkin]

Edit: I can understand people's concerns, but I really don't see this as something that will deter - or even be noticed - by the vast majority of new players.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

The learning curve is reduced because of the sheer number of persons available and willing and even eager to help the newbie.

[MeTekillot]

Roving bands of newbie warriors, all starting in Allanak. you're pithy 55% defense on your 25 day warrior stands naught chance against their dizzying defense debuffs wrought by being attacked by six enemies. what have you done

[IAmJacksOpinion]

Not a fan of the change. I feel like there's too much "lets make the game better by removing content" going around the last couple of years under the general banner of "player consolidation." Flooding under Tuluk. Inhabiting RSE. Closing taverns which, really, nobody used anyways so they could've just as easily been left in. Closing desert elf tribes which, frankly, I can't remember the last time I've seen a desert elf. Retconning the eastside, then letting the clans fall to the roadside... Eliminating possibilities for people to play something they enjoy will never result in a better game, IMO.  I'm not trying to sound like too much of a pessimist here; I love the Rinth updates, the bury command, the new Pickpocket stuff sounds rad, and I can get behind downsizing Tuluk some.

In this case though, I feel a simple, "Warning to first time players - this area typically sees lower amounts of player activity. You might have an easier /funner time learning the game in one of the City States" would have sufficed.


On a fond side-note, my very first Arm character was a Stormer assassin. Met a guy in the bar there. "What do you do?" "I'm an assassin. What do you do? Need anybody killed?" Fifteen minutes later I was on my way to Allanak to assassinate Lord Templar OhWhoCanRemember, equipped with vague directions, no desert nav skill (ranger-only back then), and a dull flint knife he'd generously sold me at the discounted price of 300 sid. I made it to Allanak with only one sleep break along the way, and wound up in the Folley. More awesomeness ensued.

[Vettrock]

On a fond side-note, my very first Arm character was a Stormer assassin. Met a guy in the bar there. "What do you do?" "I'm an assassin. What do you do? Need anybody killed?" Fifteen minutes later I was on my way to Allanak to assassinate Lord Templar OhWhoCanRemember, equipped with vague directions, no desert nav skill (ranger-only back then), and a dull flint knife he'd generously sold me at the discounted price of 300 sid. I made it to Allanak with only one sleep break along the way, and wound up in the Folley. More awesomeness ensued.

Nice...lol

[Azerick]

Excuse me while I necro this thread.

As a new player to Armageddon myself, yet an experienced mudder, I think the limited starting areas is actually a plus, it means I chose to start in a highly populated area, where I was instantly able to start RPing with people. Now, arguably I could have started in the labyrinth or red sands and possibly been ok, though it took me a while to get used to communication and emotes here, however a less experienced mudder, or even a brand new one, who have no clue what they are doing, if they had rocked up in the middle of the criminal underground and found few people, and likely even fewer who want to get involved with a seemingly dumb newb (as the character, rather than the player) due to the majority of the labyrinth being criminals. So this newb, completely new to mudding or at least quite new without 5 years behind them, is flailing around in the dark without a clue, they are just going to get completely lost and not enjoy it and quit and go to an 'easy' mud. Whereas if you send them to Tuluk, they run into lots of people which means the probability of them hitting a character with compassion or at least a desire to help them is going to be much higher, this means they will feel like they are making progress and make them want to stay. Just thoughts I had when I read through this page.