Discussion for new character restrictions to the city-states

[Nyr]

This thread is for discussion for this announcement.

[RogueGunslinger]

Yeah baby!

I'd like to think my constant harping on this a few months back had something to do with this.

[ShaLeah]

Now the races!

[QuillDipper]

Does this affect their origin choices as well or do they have free reign there?

[Cutthroat]

Seems like a good way to encourage newbies to get a better foothold in the game.

[Nyr]

Now the races!

That one is more complicated.  It certainly can be done, but even negative interaction in a city-state (someone beating down a newbie elf/breed/dwarf verbally or physically) is interaction.  Right now this is a first step to monitor.

Does this affect their origin choices as well or do they have free reign there?

You can be from anywhere, you just have to start in Allanak or Tuluk for the first PC.

[Brytta Léofa]

Nyr, do you have stats on what people HAVE been picking for their first character?  Race, guild, start location?

[Nyr]

Nyr, do you have stats on what people HAVE been picking for their first character?  Race, guild, start location?

Not on hand.  I've submitted a request for more data in our current tools to Morgenes, so whenever that gets done, we can start monitoring that more easily.  In the past we've had to run it manually against logs.

[Brytta Léofa]

Righto.

(I'm curious how many people play "hard" races/guilds for their first character, and whether it works for them.)

[PriestlySiren]

I like this. I see way too many people pick something random on their (painfully obviously) first character and do badly with it.

[seidhr]

Speaking anecdotally, you see a lot of ill-advised first characters.  City elf merchants from Red Storm, that sort of thing.

Hopefully, this will help cut down on that.

[Jeax]

Agreed.

A first character doesn't need the additional pressure of trying to know what it's like in one of the sub-culture locations (like the Labyrinth). It usually ends up not being done well...a second PC would do much better at it.

This is a +1.

[Rahnevyn]

Every time I see a new player submit a really well written application.... for a city-elf... in Red Storm.... I get sad.

[Wish]

This is great.

[Lizzie]

Excellent decision, thanks!

[X-D]

Good idea.

But cutting down on races or guilds, even if only for first PC would drive people away...already does somewhat with the low selection they have with 0 karma.

[Nyr]

But cutting down on races or guilds, even if only for first PC would drive people away...already does somewhat with the low selection they have with 0 karma.

You mean people that otherwise would play the game don't because they can't play whatever they want right away?

[RogueGunslinger]

But cutting down on races or guilds, even if only for first PC would drive people away...already does somewhat with the low selection they have with 0 karma.

You mean people that otherwise would play the game don't because they can't play whatever they want right away?

Yes. One of the things that turned me away from Arm the first time was a lack of options. Don't ask me why, but seeing that I could play 21 different races in some other MUD was appealing...

God I was a dumbass. But I came back because those other muds were vapid, shallow pieces of shit.

[Dalmeth]

I tend to see less of a drive to help new players and more of an admission that most of the game sucks.

And it's never going to be fixed.

[RogueGunslinger]

I tend to see less of a drive to help new players and more of an admission that most of the game sucks.

And it's never going to be fixed.

This is an incredibly narrow-minded view. Just because certain places aren't for everyone doesn't mean they should be changed or deleted. Just because a certain race/guild isn't popular doesn't mean it doesn't have its place.

[Nyr]

I tend to see less of a drive to help new players and more of an admission that most of the game sucks.

And it's never going to be fixed.

What makes you think that?

[RogueGunslinger]

I think he's in the same mindset of people who think a large portion of the game should be destroyed/wiped out, and the player-base should be more consolidated. Which I disagree with just because I think consolidation can happen without outright removal of large swaths of the game.

[Cutthroat]

I tend to see less of a drive to help new players and more of an admission that most of the game sucks.

And it's never going to be fixed.

Players have known for years that other areas besides Allanak/Tuluk are touch-and-go with regards to activity. New players don't have the advantage of knowing that and assume an even distribution of activity in every starting area. Some of them may end up rolling their first PC in the Labyrinth, Red Storm, or Luir's and end up not finding any interaction and/or dying quickly. A bad first experience for a new game, to be sure.

A lot of new players go to helpers asking where to start, but a lot more probably jump into the game with both feet. There's nothing wrong with that, but they could do with a bit of guidance so that they get the most interaction possible for their first time in-game. Interaction leads to help with the game, and getting hooked on it.

[spicemustflow]

Not liking it. While both Nak and Tuluk have plenty of attractions, the first area that sold me on armageddon was the 'rinth. I may be peculiar in that regard, but there you go.

Just like with races. Playing a human is motherfucking strongly recommended, but it shouldn't be enforced. It's better to die playing what you want then live playing some shit like human.

[X-D]

You mean people that otherwise would play the game don't because they can't play whatever they want right away?

Not so much that, more like what RGS said.

When you log into a mud for the first time or even check the docs and you see that 1 race is available and 2 classes...Well, you move on. Just having the choices is a draw. That is why all muds that advertise make sure to put in that ad, how many races, how many classes, and often how many skills/spells. Now I know that Arm is not like most of those other muds, but to most people, tiny selection equates to nothing to do in game either.

I know that races other then human tend to be too hard for new players...But if you see how many people do make first PCs a race other then human to start then you see the number of people who would likely move on without ever trying the game if they were restricted to human to start.

[Thunkkin]

I know that races other then human tend to be too hard for new players...But if you see how many people do make first PCs a race other then human to start then you see the number of people who would likely move on without ever trying the game if they were restricted to human to start.

Back in the day (95? 96?) when I first started to check out muds, my basic procedure was to log into a mud and create either the largest or the smallest character that I could. So, my first Arm character was a half giant who wandered around trying doors and then got chased around Allanak by a templar and finally arrested. Granted, these were my sensibilities as a 16 year old, who just wanted to play a monster that killed things or stole things. And at bottom, wanted to be something other than myself. If the me of 1996 was logging into Arm for the first time today, he'd definitely play a c-elf assassin in the rinth as first choice Sigh. But then, I was instantly hooked on permadeath games and was never able to get into non-permadeath muds after Arm and Harshlands.

Edit: I still think it's a good idea to keep first time PCs away from Luirs/Red Storm.

[Nyr]

Not liking it. While both Nak and Tuluk have plenty of attractions, the first area that sold me on armageddon was the 'rinth. I may be peculiar in that regard, but there you go.

First area that sold you, sure, but was your first character from there?  We're just looking at the first PC here.

Just like with races. Playing a human is motherfucking strongly recommended, but it shouldn't be enforced. It's better to die playing what you want then live playing some shit like human.

In this case we're looking at gaining and retaining new players that point to poor starting locations for new players.  We've done individual case studies on stuff from time to time.  Here are the previous things we've looked at related to that.

#nope #noway #hellno #limitingpeopleisnotgoingtohelp #iknowpeoplewhodon'twanttoplayhmans

Essentially, here is my argument:

-I- started here, playing as an elf. I enjoyed my experience immensely. I started in Luirs. I enjoyed my experience immensely.

Your experience was not the norm.  You picked a non-recommended race and started in a place that would be difficult for that race to get by, even for a veteran player.  (Elves are despised, city-elves can't navigate the desert nearly as well as a desert elf, elves can't ride, elves have a tribal mentality, etc).  The fact that it worked for you isn't statistically relevant, though it is very cool. We're aiming to improve retention for new players, and we can't count on outliers to make that magic moment happen.

So how often do people point to Luir's and Red Storm anyway? 
The runlog from about September 15 for pointing to Luir's Outpost successfully shows that only 16 PCs have done so.  Of those, only two PCs were first characters for newbies.  Neither of them rolled nonhumans. Neither of these two newbies are still playing actively (though one is still logging in sporadically).

The runlog from about September 16 for pointing to Red Storm Village successfully shows that 39 PCs have done so.  Of these, eleven PCs were first characters for newbies, with seven of them being nonhumans.  One of these eleven newbies is still playing actively (though one other is still logging in sporadically).  There are two others that have started fairly recently so their results are not significant.

Conversely, in the same period, you have close to 150 points to Allanak and close to 130 for Tuluk.  The sheer playerbase numbers are higher there, with greater chances for interaction from PCs.  We'd probably want to focus new players to those locations to try and get them hooked more securely.

Right, mine wasn't the norm, but I don't think you should hard-code limit newbies to picking one specific thing. If they "want" to try that, sure, but give them big warnings in chargen.

Like, big ones. Or, initially if it's their first PC, make it hardcoded so they Point Newbie first, and then that can give them a little backdrop like what are recommended things to do. That would be a way to handle it.

"We highly recommend players choose Allanak or Tuluk, and starting as a human in either of these cities, due to the fact that non-human races have strong prejudices against them and will find play more difficult."

I laid out numbers that pretty much shoot holes in your desires on this matter, at least numbers from the last month or so.  I'll continue to review this periodically in the future, but here's what those numbers say in terms of percentages:

Amount of retained new players that pointed to Luir's as their first role:  0 out of 2.  That's 0%.
Amount of retained new players that pointed to Red Storm as their first role:  1 out of 11.  That's about 9.1%.  

Okay, so that's a pretty abysmal rate of retention.  Why is the rate so low?  It is probably a few things.

1.  Fewer players start in those two spots.  (Evidence?  The runlogs.)
2.  With fewer players starting there, there is a lessened chance of interaction.
3.  Both locations have lowered clan support structures.  (Allanak and Tuluk both have several clans each that support more players overall.)

Numbers aren't up yet for October, but at this time there are about 14 or 15 players that are new as of this month that have put in more than 20 hours of play AND have played as recently as this week.  Of these players, every single one of them pointed to Allanak or Tuluk for their first PC, except one that pointed to Luir's.  This one is (as mentioned above) sporadically playing, and that's great.  (Guess what?  They aren't in Luir's anymore!)

I am not saying Luir's and Red Storm (and even the 'rinth) are hellholes that no player should ever play.
I am saying that if we are looking to retain players, we need to look at the metrics that got our retained players here in the first place.  The big key seems to be player interaction and a rewarding experience.  It is more likely that there will be player interaction in the city-states.  We should do what we can to guide players towards that interaction.

Making this change is aiming at low-hanging fruit.  It's an easy change, it should net some results, and the impact is fairly low to new players.  If it nets us even two or three new retained players per month, that's a significant increase.  (Even one would be a good increase.)  We're also adding some verbiage to the introductory documentation that mentions peak times and the GDB, two other big indicators for getting new players plugged in.

If we lose a few potential players that absolutely want to start (note:  start, not play--they can go there if they really want to with that first PC) in Luir's or Red Storm or the 'rinth...we're not really getting them now anyway.  They started there and quit playing the vast majority of the time. 

[BleakOne]

I like it.

Lets people see that the game isn't dead or inactive, which is what people may think when they log into Luirs' or Red Storm during the regular times with no other PCs about. Since it's only for the first character, it's not really for a long time either.

As for races or guilds being restricted, that may have more of a negative effect as X-D mentioned. People like having choices to create who they want.

As for the 'most of the game sucks' comment... well... 

[Kryos]

From a game design perspective, its pretty commonly acknowledged you've got about ten minutes to catch a new player with something interesting, then you've got an hour to hook them.  Most modern games are built in this concept, by and large.

Remember Skyrim, the first quest?  How amazingly alive did the world feel during it?  Did any other quest really live up to the gripping chaos and amazing that was the destruction by the dragon? Skyrim didn't front load a good deal of resources on the first quest on a whim, they were trying to hook you.

Even in vanilla, WoW's chargen starting quests were far more involved and interesting then "kill 10 wigglywuts".  They tried to ship you off the more beautiful, and script heavy places of the world.  You got to be the hand of the king.  So on and so forth.

Point is, the more likely you are to give a new player a dose of the game as it should be, the more likely you are to have drawn their interest.  I think its a good decision to put players towards starting in a major population center.  Its not the option to slip right into a major clan, but, its still playing on the understanding.

[Dalmeth]

What makes you think that?

Because your announcement is a reduction in service.  Why cut off new players from content if the content is not pernicious?

You may not say it outright, but you are reducing the consciousness of these areas as playable.

In addition, this is only a new element in a pattern of reduced area of effect, but while this is a common trend in any administrative body, it is never really very effective.

Focusing on the cities will do nothing for player retention, because if you look at the numbers for September 2013...

Nyr stated that the  number of points to Red Storm were 39.
Nyr stated that the number of those PCs still playing were 1.

Nyr stated that the number of points to Allanak were close to 150.
Nyr stated that the number of points to Tuluk were close to 130.

Actual number of players retained for September 2013 as stated in the October 2013 Report sit at 7.

So, let's split that up, with Tuluk and Allanak taking up the remainder evenly (3 each) :

Red Storm has a retention rate of 2.26% for the month of September 2013.
Allanak has a retention rate of close to 2.00% for the month of September 2013.
Tuluk has a retention rate of close to 2.3o% for the month of September 2013.

See?  I can massage the numbers to support my argument, too!

They also seem to say that your efforts will do almost nothing to increase player retention.  I find the effect here is nearly equal to retaining player options (almost negligible), which I am in favor of.

[Cutthroat]

The admission from staff is not that non-major city areas suck, but that player density is extremely low in Red Storm, Luir's and the Labyrinth compared to Allanak and Tuluk, which is a well-known fact to regular players but not to newbies.

Newbies have a better chance of being hooked to a roleplaying game if they get player interaction, not just during September 2013 (although that's the only month I could find numbers for points to certain areas), but generally speaking. In any case, the numbers and argument you provided are a bit flawed because it doesn't take into account that some of those 38 people who pointed to Red Storm and didn't stick around, might have stuck around if they pointed to Allanak or Tuluk. You're just looking at people who did stay in the game when we really want to figure out more information about those who didn't stay (and how to improve their experience to be more in line with the people who did stay, so that they might have stayed too).

Our game is a niche within a niche within a niche. We are dealing with big numbers compared to other RPIs, but really small ones compared to other MUDs, and other RPGs. We're dealing with recruiting regular players in the single digits every month because an RPI is a very specific type of game. Even if very few players have pointed to a low-density area and then quit the game forever because they couldn't find anyone to play with, would it not be worth it to prevent that from happening in the future?

[BleakOne]

Also, it's not like they're making the other starting locations Karma based or anything - it's just the first character. Most first characters barely last more than a RL week, it that, and those that do last longer have plenty of chance for travel if they really like the look of another area.

I highly doubt anyone would decide not to play based on the fact they couldn't spawn in one of the locations in a game. I can see, however, someone logging in on a bad day in Red Storm, seeing nobody for RL hours, and deciding the game's dead and quitting.

[manonfire]

I don't the restrictions. Armageddon always had a very libertarian streak to it, which is what hooked me all those years ago. If a new player likes the idea of Red Storm or Luirs, they should be able to start there and have that be their first experience.

Restriction isn't the answer. Information is. Big, bold, capital letters next to Allanak and Tuluk stating STRONGLY RECOMMENDED FOR NEW PLAYERS.

This seems very nanny state to me.

[Cutthroat]

Restriction isn't the answer. Information is. Big, bold, capital letters next to Allanak and Tuluk stating STRONGLY RECOMMENDED FOR NEW PLAYERS.

Normally I'd be inclined to agree with this, but the thing is that the information's been out there for a while. It's in the newbie guide and it's in what helpers say in the helper chat. It's on the GDB from time to time. The only place it isn't spelled out yet is in the actual game, in the Hall of Kings, so that info gets missed by the sort of new player that wants to jump in first and read the docs later. Arguably it would be good to have it there though; even if this change sticks it's a good reference for players creating their second+ characters.

[Delirium]

Spell it out in the Hall of Kings then.

[manonfire]

Restriction isn't the answer. Information is. Big, bold, capital letters next to Allanak and Tuluk stating STRONGLY RECOMMENDED FOR NEW PLAYERS.

Normally I'd be inclined to agree with this, but the thing is that the information's been out there for a while. It's in the newbie guide and it's in what helpers say in the helper chat. It's on the GDB from time to time. The only place it isn't spelled out yet is in the actual game, in the Hall of Kings, so that info gets missed by the sort of new player that wants to jump in first and read the docs later. Arguably it would be good to have it there though; even if this change sticks it's a good reference for players creating their second+ characters.

Problem is, not everybody reads the helpfiles, not everybody talks to the helpers, and not everybody reads the GDB. Everybody goes through the Hall of Kings.

[Cutthroat]

No argument there. I'm just wondering why that was never tried first.

[spicemustflow]

Not liking it. While both Nak and Tuluk have plenty of attractions, the first area that sold me on armageddon was the 'rinth. I may be peculiar in that regard, but there you go.

First area that sold you, sure, but was your first character from there?  We're just looking at the first PC here.

No, my third character was rinthi. My two Nakkis didn't live long and didn't have a really good time despite the area being recommended for new players.

I get what you're trying to say, a new player may underestimate the hardships that await when they roll up a Red Storm elven pickpocket/woodcutter, then they think the mud is shit and move on. But that problem would better be solved by WARNINGS that the area in question is not for newbies.

As an example, the only reason I gave Shadows of Isuldur a chance was that I was allowed to play an orc from Mordor as my first character. If I had to be a human hunter from wherever else, I wouldn't have bothered to create even that one character. Not everyone who checks out Arm is a complete newb to muds.

[whitt]

As an example, the only reason I gave Shadows of Isuldur a chance was that I was allowed to play an orc from Mordor as my first character.

Just curious, being very familiar with the average number of blackblood players around at any given time, how long did you stick around with your snaga?

[Rahnevyn]

If a new player likes the idea of Red Storm or Luirs, they should be able to start there and have that be their first experience.

The idea of those locations doesn't always match the reality, which is that you may not meet another PC at all in those areas, especially if you play off peak. We want to present new players with the best, most interactive experience we can, which right now is in one of the cities. If they hate it, well, Red Storm is a scrab away.

[Lizzie]

If a new player likes the idea of Red Storm or Luirs, they should be able to start there and have that be their first experience.

The idea of those locations doesn't always match the reality, which is that you may not meet another PC at all in those areas, especially if you play off peak. We want to present new players with the best, most interactive experience we can, which right now is in one of the cities. If they hate it, well, Red Storm is a scrab away.

Not only that. But if they pick Allanak, and they don't like Allanak, they could just *walk* to Red Storm. Yes it's risky, but compared to starting out in Red Storm during a "tremendous sandstorm" with low (or no) direction sense skill, no (or low) ride skill, no (or low) forage skill, and enough sids for armor OR a mount, but not both...

I'd say they'd be better off starting in Allanak and walking. The risk of not having fun playing a Red Stormer as your very first character, is greater than the risk of dying when you decide Allanak isn't for you and walking to Red Storm.

[Nyr]

What makes you think that?

Because your announcement is a reduction in service.  Why cut off new players from content if the content is not pernicious?

Because these players (if receiving some service) aren't sticking to the game and this is a broad stroke to attempt to retain some of them.

You may not say it outright, but you are reducing the consciousness of these areas as playable.

In addition, this is only a new element in a pattern of reduced area of effect, but while this is a common trend in any administrative body, it is never really very effective.

I'm willing to look and see why you think this is the case.

Focusing on the cities will do nothing for player retention, because if you look at the numbers for September 2013...

Nyr stated that the  number of points to Red Storm were 39.
Nyr stated that the number of those PCs still playing were 1.

Nyr stated that the number of points to Allanak were close to 150.
Nyr stated that the number of points to Tuluk were close to 130.

Well, you're grabbing at numbers but not grabbing the right ones or grabbing them in the right context.  On October 26, I said the runlog from September 16 to October 26 was such that 39 people pointed to Red Storm.  This wasn't for September 2013.  This was for nearly a 40 day time period, outside of the usual scope of review for monthly metrics.  The only thing you got right here is that 39 people pointed to Red Storm during that time.

Of those 39, 11 were newbies.
So the other 28 were not the first PCs on the account and can be discounted as they do not apply.

Of those 11, only 1 was playing actively at that time.

The retention rate is not what you think it is.

Actual number of players retained for September 2013 as stated in the October 2013 Report sit at 7.

Yes, for September as a whole.

So, let's split that up, with Tuluk and Allanak taking up the remainder evenly (3 each) :

Split up October's numbers for September?  That'd be a mistake...the only thing we tracked in the following month was "how many folks from the month before stuck" that year.  We aren't tracking that now in that way.  But go on...

Red Storm has a retention rate of 2.26% for the month of September 2013.
Allanak has a retention rate of close to 2.00% for the month of September 2013.
Tuluk has a retention rate of close to 2.3o% for the month of September 2013.

Actually, if we look at the data for September and October together for the retained (at the time) accounts, we would find a 0% retention rate for RS, Luir's, or Labyrinth.

So here you're looking at the retention rate of all new accounts for September 2013.  I estimated that using a different method last year, but let's see the actual data for September and not October.  You may have looked there but I want to be sure you're looking at the right numbers.
Source:  September Update 2013

So we had 434 brand new accounts created that year.

Of those, 78 actually made it into the game. This is not a retention rate, it's the pass-fail rate or whatever you want to call it.  Those people made enough effort to a) create an app and b) get approved and c) log into the game and actually do anything, even if it's quitting out immediately.  That's almost 18%.

Of those 78, there were only 8 players that were still logging in as recently as 5 days prior to the report.  That's about 10% retention of players that actually log in.  If you compare it to the amount of new accounts, it's less than 2%.  That'd be a disingenuous argument of statistics since the other 356 players either didn't log in, didn't get approved, etc.  They didn't meet the bar, even if the bar is "logging into the game."

Now, that data is from September 2013, but I can (at the bare minimum) see where those 78 players' characters are from for that month.

The top 8?  All pointed to Allanak or Tuluk.  Period.  So we had no retention for September for anyone pointing to Red Storm, Luir's, or the 'rinth.
The next 10?  Allanak or Tuluk.  Only one pointed to Luir's.
The next 20?  Allanak or Tuluk.  Only one pointed to the Labyrinth.

At this point we're getting below the 2 hour range of play.  That is to say, these players below did not even put in two hours of time into the game before stopping.

The rest?  We start seeing more people from other areas.  14 for Luir's or RSV, 1 for the rinth.

Anyway, back to retention rates.  Here is how we estimated the monthly retention rate:

player started in month X and is still playing in month Y

So there are actually more players than before that started in September, played a lot, and played into October, but let's go with the original 7 (not the 8 that were top accounts for September, but the 7 that were top accounts for September and also retained through October).

Red Storm retention rate:  0 players.  So that's 0% of the 7 (the top players retained month over month), 0% of the 78 (the players that actually created accounts and logged in even once that month), and 0% of the 434 (the players that failed to be approved, log in, or do anything more than create an account and finish the where survey).
Luir's retention rate:  0 players.  See above.
Rinth retention rate:  0 players.  See above.
Tuluk retention rate:  4 players.  So that's 57% of the 7, 5% of the 78, and not even 1% of the 434.
Allanak retention rate:  3 players.  So that's 43% of the 7, almost 4% of the 78, and not even 1% of the 434.

Essentially we are making the argument that the players that stick aren't actually picking these places the majority of the time, anyway, and the players that do not stick ARE picking these places on a regular basis.

See?  I can massage the numbers to support my argument, too!

I understand that you disagree with the idea that this will improve anything.  It's a valid point.  However, I suppose we'll see if it works or not, and we can always revert if it is detrimental.  We won't know unless we try.

[manonfire]

If a new player likes the idea of Red Storm or Luirs, they should be able to start there and have that be their first experience.

The idea of those locations doesn't always match the reality, which is that you may not meet another PC at all in those areas, especially if you play off peak. We want to present new players with the best, most interactive experience we can, which right now is in one of the cities. If they hate it, well, Red Storm is a scrab away.

Your argument works both ways. If they decide they hate Red Storm, Allanak is just a scrab away.

What about Luirs? Luirs is nothing like Red Storm, but they're being restricted for the same reasons. I don't know what the current PC population of Luirs is, but everytime I roll through there, I -always- bump into somebody. Would you recommend to a new player that wanted to start in Luirs and join Kurac to start in Tuluk and walk instead?

This whole idea strikes me as completely unnecessary. Like I said before, restriction is not the answer, information is. If you want to impress upon new players that they should probably start in Allanak or Tuluk to ensure the best experience, make it glaringly obvious in the Hall of Kings.

If your aim is player retention, there are more efficient ways to go about it, but that's another thread entirely.

[Barzalene]

This isn't a matter I've thought on at length. I don't know if it's good or bad. One possible positive is logging in with that second PC and its like you get presents in the form of three new places to try.

[Nyr]

And again, the best news about any change like this is that we can measure results and see what it nets us at all, and if it warrants reverting back or making further changes, we can do that.

[Rahnevyn]

Your argument works both ways. If they decide they hate Red Storm, Allanak is just a scrab away.

Unfortunately, new players who log in to unpopulated areas, find nothing to do and no one to RP with, and leave, aren't always deciding "man, Red Storm is boring" -- the fear here is they decide "man, this game is boring". Walking to a new location is gonna be hard for someone who can't even navigate a city. And while I said another location was "just a scrab away", there's also the fact that many new players coming from other MUDs aren't used to a restrictive approval process. They put a lot of effort into their first application, and a common complaint I've seen is "wait, so when I die I have to make a whole new character and go through all that again?" In other words, dying to try something new isn't an option that occurs to every newbie, and that's fine. The goal here is to do our best to hook them on their first PC.

What about Luirs? Luirs is nothing like Red Storm, but they're being restricted for the same reasons. I don't know what the current PC population of Luirs is, but everytime I roll through there, I -always- bump into somebody. Would you recommend to a new player that wanted to start in Luirs and join Kurac to start in Tuluk and walk instead?

We do know what the current PC population of Luir's is, and while it's not always low at peak times, it's not a sure thing. Also, at least from what I've seen, very few players start in Luir's with the express intent of joining Kurac and wouldn't even give the game a try otherwise. If someone really was that set on joining Kurac, I'd suggest starting in Tuluk and hanging out at the Tooth - it's pretty easy to find Kuraci PCs up there. And if they hire you, they'll cart you back down with them, so you don't have to risk the walk on your own.

If your aim is player retention, there are more efficient ways to go about it, but that's another thread entirely.

Feel free to start one, I guess, if you really feel there are more efficient ways to help hook newbies. But keep in mind, there's a lot of ways to judge efficiency, and definitely one way we need to judge an idea is in terms of its cost in staff resources (both in implementation and support.) We feel two of five starting locations are more effective at supporting new players than the other three. We can cheaply funnel new players towards what we feel is the best experience for them, or we can expensively invest lots of time trying to figure out why new players in the other three don't seem to stick as well and address that.

So to the argument that some people fear this will actually lower new player retention if newbies can't start where they want to start, I guess the answer is: we'll see! If it does, we can re-evaluate. My bet is we'll see more newbies sticking around as a result of this change. Only time will tell. As to the argument that restricting player choice is awful and we're being a nanny state or something, well, I guess I just have to point out that Armageddon has had a fairly rigid and codified set of restrictions on who (race/role) and what (guild) players can play for over a decade. This change very very narrowly extends those restrictions to where (origin), as well, for the very first character only. However, I think new players coming here looking to express their freedoms and play absolutely whatever they want probably stopped when they saw their background had to be approved before they could play and never looked back.

[manonfire]

If we're restricting starting areas based on low player count, why aren't we restricting Tuluk as well? 

Aaaaanyway, I guess we'll see how it goes. I'm interested to see the how the numbers shake out in the months to come.

[ShaLeah]

I'm curious, does the chargen remove what you're not permitted like it does for races and guilds? Ojos qué no ven, corazón qué no siente.

[Nyr]

I'm curious, does the chargen remove what you're not permitted like it does for races and guilds? Ojos qué no ven, corazón qué no siente.

I'm not clear on what you are asking...

[ShaLeah]

I'm curious, does the chargen remove what you're not permitted like it does for races and guilds? Ojos qué no ven, corazón qué no siente.

I'm not clear on what you are asking...

You know how if you don't have that karma won't see delf or hg or Viv etc? When get into the HoK with your first char, does the map only show Nak or Tuluk?

[Nyr]

I'm curious, does the chargen remove what you're not permitted like it does for races and guilds? Ojos qué no ven, corazón qué no siente.

I'm not clear on what you are asking...

You know how if you don't have that karma won't see delf or hg or Viv etc? When get into the HoK with your first char, does the map only show Nak or Tuluk?

I see what you mean.  Yes, we have some fine coding folks that have made that the case.

[ShaLeah]

I'm curious, does the chargen remove what you're not permitted like it does for races and guilds? Ojos qué no ven, corazón qué no siente.

I'm not clear on what you are asking...

You know how if you don't have that karma won't see delf or hg or Viv etc? When get into the HoK with your first char, does the map only show Nak or Tuluk?

I see what you mean.  Yes, we have some fine coding folks that have made that the case.

So they won't really KNOW there's others places. That rocks. You guys rock.

[Desertman]

I'm assuming the "Rinth" isn't being considered as "Allanak" for a starting location?

Just making sure since the Rinth is technically in Allanak, but is in fact its own starting location.

[Rahnevyn]

So they won't really KNOW there's others places. That rocks. You guys rock.

Well, we're not exactly hiding the documentation, and in fact you can still pick your hometown as Red Storm, Luir's, or the Labyrinth. You just can't start there. So they might know. Then again they might not.

I'm assuming the "Rinth" isn't being considered as "Allanak" for a starting location?

Right, the Labyrinth is not pickable as an origin. You can start in Allanak (aka the Gaj) or Tuluk (aka the Firestorm).

[JustAnotherGuy]

Right, the Labyrinth is not pickable as an origin. You can start in Allanak (aka the Gaj) or Tuluk (aka the Firestorm).

Wasn't there some looking into making the Sanctuary back into the starting point for Tuluk?  Thought I remember Nyr bringing this up.

[BleakOne]

Right, the Labyrinth is not pickable as an origin. You can start in Allanak (aka the Gaj) or Tuluk (aka the Firestorm).

Wasn't there some looking into making the Sanctuary back into the starting point for Tuluk?  Thought I remember Nyr bringing this up.

It would be really awkward to start in the Sanctuary if you spawn in Tuluk, but are not a Tuluki citizen.

Really awkward as in, potentially lethal.

[Asche]

But cutting down on races or guilds, even if only for first PC would drive people away...already does somewhat with the low selection they have with 0 karma.

You mean people that otherwise would play the game don't because they can't play whatever they want right away?

I've been playing for about a year and a half, and regularly for about a year of that time. While this change doesn't upset me too much, I'm going to put myself into the 'not in favor' camp. I accepted the recommendation and started my first character in 'Nak, but it wasn't long before I tried a spice sifter in Storm. When I read the docs for this game's lore, there were tons of concepts I wanted to try that wouldn't fit in either 'Nak or Tuluk, and frankly, this comes across as more of an attempt to concentrate RP into these two areas than to facilitate ease of play for newcomers. As to your quote, I personally don't appreciate how dismissive it is. "Oh, you mean those players who can't be a little patient to play the roles they want to play?" I don't think its unreasonable to read about a concept being offered on one of thousands of muds, getting interested in it, then being told "Whoah there, kid. You aren't ready for Luir's.  Try a Bynner in 'Nak! Just don't explore too far north.", and being a bit irritated. Frankly, I think for player retention, its a bad move. The arbitrary restrictions on playability are over restrictive as is. I've invested a ton of effort into this game, and only recently got my first point of karma, and the longevity one at that (the 'participant' ribbon given to the fat kid on field day). I'd hate for players even newer than me to have to jump through more hoops just to play what they want to play. This game requires a LOT more effort to get acquainted with than say, New Worlds. That doesn't make it a worse game, it just means we need to watch how steep we make that learning curve.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Having a new player start in Nak or Luk is really not making the curve steeper. It's really making it a lot more gentle.

[Jakhal]

Sitting comfortably on the fence between both camps, I just wanted to throw in my two 'sid that I agree with Staff's overall assurance.

If they show data suggesting that these changes are losing first time ever players, they can always re-open the options back up and go back to the drawing board.

There will always be new traffic and even a remote shot at keeping more of that new traffing and infusing more new blood into this game is worth it, especially since
it's not a 'Point of No Return' move.

[Bogre]

Add the 'rinth!

[QuillDipper]

I think adding the 'Rinth wouldn't be too bad. Its essentially part of 'Nak, so it isn't too hard to bail if you decide against it, but its one of the grittiest experiences in the game  and has the potential to attract people looking for that.

Maybe having some kind of highly recommended sign/warning with Nak and Tuluk, and a huge warning with the Labyrinth. Red Storm is -not- for new players, and Luir's is a bit too out of the way for a first PC. The 'Rinth, might make the cut though.

[RogueGunslinger]

I think adding the 'Rinth wouldn't be too bad.

You can easily make you background Rinthi and just start in allanak, walk few room it takes to get into the 'rinth.

And then you get those sweet 'nakki starter shops.

[FreeRangeVestric]

I think adding the 'Rinth wouldn't be too bad.

You can easily make you background Rinthi and just start in allanak, walk few room it takes to get into the 'rinth.

And then you get those sweet 'nakki starter shops.

A first-time PC wouldn't know it's so easy to do. And 'hey guyz, which way to the rinth?' probably wouldn't go over so well.

[solera]

I think adding the 'Rinth wouldn't be too bad.

You can easily make you background Rinthi and just start in allanak, walk few room it takes to get into the 'rinth.

And then you get those sweet 'nakki starter shops.

I always thought you had to be dressed right for the alleys. No?

I tend to be in favour of keeping the 'Rinth.
Bad things that can happen to newbs
1. Start killing the local  street life and get slaughtered. Not much different than taking the same approach to the wildlife out the gates.
2. Get bored, find your way into Southside, and hopefully learn what being a 'Rinther means. Probably end up dead/locked up/Bynned.

[RogueGunslinger]

I think adding the 'Rinth wouldn't be too bad.

You can easily make you background Rinthi and just start in allanak, walk few room it takes to get into the 'rinth.

And then you get those sweet 'nakki starter shops.

I always thought you had to be dressed right for the alleys. No?

Yep. This is possible in the 'nakki starter shops. There's a whole shop for the downtrodden.

[Saellyn]

I think this is a good move, after some thought. If I had started in Red Storm I might have quit the game.

Actually, I wouldn't have, because I had a friend who played and he was well into it for a little while before dropping out, but I stayed strong. Quite happy with it too.

[Rahnevyn]

Having a new player start in Nak or Luk is really not making the curve steeper. It's really making it a lot more gentle.

Well said.

[Delirium]

I kneejerk disliked this change, but honestly, I think it matters less where you start and more whether you get interaction - I know that part of the reason I play today is because I was almost immediately roped into Durg's crew while standing lost and confused on the North Road in Tuluk. So if this leads to more newbies getting interaction - great. The rabblerousing liberal in me would still prefer that players be given the choice and a notice put up in the HoK.

[Asche]

Having a new player start in Nak or Luk is really not making the curve steeper. It's really making it a lot more gentle.

I don't really see why anyone would think that. The lore behind, say, Luir's or Red Storm is FAR simpler than the caste system of Tuluk, or how the Gemmed should be interacted with as a 'Nak native, especially for a new player. In terms of easy comprehension, 'Nak and Tuluk are by far the most complex starting location. The only advantage to starting there is the prevalence of the playerbase to explain things to you. The curve for understanding 'its basically owned by a merchant House called Kurac' is a lot less of a bump than either of the two. I dunno, I just think that a lot of major staff decisions since I've joined the game have limited roleplay, or made the world smaller in some way, to fit more with someone's idea of how the game should be played.

[Thunkkin]

Edit: I can understand people's concerns, but I really don't see this as something that will deter - or even be noticed - by the vast majority of new players.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

The learning curve is reduced because of the sheer number of persons available and willing and even eager to help the newbie.

[MeTekillot]

Roving bands of newbie warriors, all starting in Allanak. you're pithy 55% defense on your 25 day warrior stands naught chance against their dizzying defense debuffs wrought by being attacked by six enemies. what have you done

[IAmJacksOpinion]

Not a fan of the change. I feel like there's too much "lets make the game better by removing content" going around the last couple of years under the general banner of "player consolidation." Flooding under Tuluk. Inhabiting RSE. Closing taverns which, really, nobody used anyways so they could've just as easily been left in. Closing desert elf tribes which, frankly, I can't remember the last time I've seen a desert elf. Retconning the eastside, then letting the clans fall to the roadside... Eliminating possibilities for people to play something they enjoy will never result in a better game, IMO.  I'm not trying to sound like too much of a pessimist here; I love the Rinth updates, the bury command, the new Pickpocket stuff sounds rad, and I can get behind downsizing Tuluk some.

In this case though, I feel a simple, "Warning to first time players - this area typically sees lower amounts of player activity. You might have an easier /funner time learning the game in one of the City States" would have sufficed.


On a fond side-note, my very first Arm character was a Stormer assassin. Met a guy in the bar there. "What do you do?" "I'm an assassin. What do you do? Need anybody killed?" Fifteen minutes later I was on my way to Allanak to assassinate Lord Templar OhWhoCanRemember, equipped with vague directions, no desert nav skill (ranger-only back then), and a dull flint knife he'd generously sold me at the discounted price of 300 sid. I made it to Allanak with only one sleep break along the way, and wound up in the Folley. More awesomeness ensued.

[Vettrock]

On a fond side-note, my very first Arm character was a Stormer assassin. Met a guy in the bar there. "What do you do?" "I'm an assassin. What do you do? Need anybody killed?" Fifteen minutes later I was on my way to Allanak to assassinate Lord Templar OhWhoCanRemember, equipped with vague directions, no desert nav skill (ranger-only back then), and a dull flint knife he'd generously sold me at the discounted price of 300 sid. I made it to Allanak with only one sleep break along the way, and wound up in the Folley. More awesomeness ensued.

Nice...lol

[Azerick]

Excuse me while I necro this thread.

As a new player to Armageddon myself, yet an experienced mudder, I think the limited starting areas is actually a plus, it means I chose to start in a highly populated area, where I was instantly able to start RPing with people. Now, arguably I could have started in the labyrinth or red sands and possibly been ok, though it took me a while to get used to communication and emotes here, however a less experienced mudder, or even a brand new one, who have no clue what they are doing, if they had rocked up in the middle of the criminal underground and found few people, and likely even fewer who want to get involved with a seemingly dumb newb (as the character, rather than the player) due to the majority of the labyrinth being criminals. So this newb, completely new to mudding or at least quite new without 5 years behind them, is flailing around in the dark without a clue, they are just going to get completely lost and not enjoy it and quit and go to an 'easy' mud. Whereas if you send them to Tuluk, they run into lots of people which means the probability of them hitting a character with compassion or at least a desire to help them is going to be much higher, this means they will feel like they are making progress and make them want to stay. Just thoughts I had when I read through this page.

[icewindsong]

I haven't even applied for my 1st character yet, and thought I'd comment on this as well.  Players don't like restrictions   even when its for their own good, many people want to be free to make their own mistakes and learn from them.  Some may like being put right into the pool to start with so they can dive in to the rp.  Others might want to sit on the side and paddle their feet a while first to get used to it, which could mean starting in a low population area where they don't feel pressured and can learn at their own rate.

For myself, I was considering either a ranger or merchant to start.  I've chosen the latter to pursue the idea of playing a chef, though I'm still a little vague on wether I should look for a noble sponsor right away or put in some learning time with a merchant house and learn the crunchy skill parts before moving on to that goal.  But I digress.  If I had chosen the ranger I wanted to be a nomad, and probably not start in one of the big cities, but with that particular clan or tribe.  It would have been very disappointing to set that up, apply for it, and then only have the big cities as a choice to enter the game.  Especially if it was by surprise.  As it stands, the only reason I know about is already is because I registered with the gdb and have been reading and posting, and someone commented in an answer to me that I'd have to pick one of the two cities.  That made me look around more, to find this thread.

What others have been saying that I do agree with is - tell people about these things and make it obvious and up-front, not hidden somewhere.  I have been working out my application though I haven't finished yet, and I've read what I would expect most new players to read: the Quickstart page, and various other info pages accessible from the main web page.  I can tell you that Liurs and Red Storm are made to look like interesting choices from their write-ups, and that there's no mention of them being a bad place to start for a newbie in either city pages or the Quickstart document.  There IS the quick tip: "You're more likely to encounter other players in the city-states (Allanak and Tuluk)" but that doesn't have the impact you seem to be looking for.  I would suggest leaving the options open, but putting in all locations (Quickstart, city info, character application form i.e. before sending app, and this hall of kings place) a statement like:

'rinth:  Beware!  This location is dangerous and intended for experienced players.  Those new to the world are likely to have swift, messy deaths! (You have been warned)

Red Storm and Luirs:  Warning!  Not recommended for new players - low player-population in these areas makes RP hard to come by at most times, and help nearly impossible.  New players are STRONGLY RECOMMENDED to start in Allanak or Tuluk.

If it had those, in those places, then new players are going to see the info before they even start working out their characters.  Then they're informed, and if they choose to start in one of those places for whatever reason then they're not going to blame the game if they die of thist, alone and penniless in a hole, and will likely keep playing and make their 2nd character in the recommended area.  Or if they survive in the area and launch from obscurity into the world, then they have a greater sense of accomplishment to spur them on.  They'll probably move on to a big city soon enough, but this way they weren't ever forced.

I know this restriction is only for someone's first character, which according to other posts I've read has a life-expectancy of about 3 hours.  I hope to live longer than that myself.  I think most new players are likely to think "what, I cant be what I want, or choose the city I want? screw that"

Personally I think 'sink or swim' is the best way to learn, and in games I almost always choose the hardest option to play first, knowing it will take longer to get used-to, but when I do everything else will be easy to understand or do by comparison.  In this case, that is choosing the role that will require a lot more roleplay to get anywhere.  I don't know if I'm up to a heavy roleplay role, but I'm going to try. 

[MeTekillot]

You sure do mention not having played yet an awful lot.

[Marauder Moe]

Be nice.



That said, I strongly suspect we lost more new players from them being bored by not finding people to play with in obscure areas (and/or being killed quickly in the 'rinth), than we will from the disappointment of having to play one character in Allanak/Tuluk first.

Also, I should note that you can't apply for any of human tribal clans without explicit approval first, and given the intricate and unique cultures of them it is unlikely a newer player would be granted such permission.

HOWEVER, you can still select a tribal background during character creation, noting that they're from a small virtual tribe you yourself made up.  You can then also start said character in Allanak or Tuluk.

Welcome!  And good luck.

[Rahnevyn]

As Moe mentioned, there's nothing that prevents a new character from starting as a ranger/nomad. You don't even have to be from Allanak or Tuluk as a hometown, you need only start there in-game. There are a lot of benefits to a new player who may start in those locations versus, say, the Labyrinth or Red Storm, and in general they're going to offer a new player a better experience. If the first thing a character would like to do is hop on a mount and ride to Luir's, we don't stop them. But by starting in areas we can reasonably expect to be populated by other players both on- and off-peak, there's a greater likelihood newbies will stumble across another character and get caught up in some roleplay, which is really the best way to get people hooked on the game.

[CodeMaster]

As Moe mentioned, there's nothing that prevents a new character from starting as a ranger/nomad. You don't even have to be from Allanak or Tuluk as a hometown, you need only start there in-game. There are a lot of benefits to a new player who may start in those locations versus, say, the Labyrinth or Red Storm, and in general they're going to offer a new player a better experience. If the first thing a character would like to do is hop on a mount and ride to Luir's, we don't stop them. But by starting in areas we can reasonably expect to be populated by other players both on- and off-peak, there's a greater likelihood newbies will stumble across another character and get caught up in some roleplay, which is really the best way to get people hooked on the game.

Just to pipe up...  I would recommend being 'from' Allanak or Tuluk to a new player.  Otherwise they don't get access to the 'directions' command for the location they start the game in, unfortunately.

(directions command is awesome).

[icewindsong]

You sure do mention not having played yet an awful lot.

I'm trying to say it in my first post in any given thread, as a reference for people reading, because I'm often making assumptions or guesses about how things work that may be wrong in one or more ways.  I'm certainly not new to playing in general.  I started with several rpgs in high school, and then played in text-based games online before there were graphical MMO's, and I've played or at least tried most of the major MMO's that have been around.  I still do tabletop gaming, and am a venture-lieutenant for pathfinder society.  What I have not done is play a very heavy roleplay role (in any setting) nor a perma-death game of this sort, which is a quality that makes me a little nervous, I admit.  It just seems like it would be a real shame if someone puts months of good rp into a role, only to die by accidently fleeing into a DT or walk off a cliff when their cat jumps on the keyboard.  Anyway, I make the comment as an explanation, to avoid a reaction of "... how could you not know that? lol, noob!" if I'm particularly off-base in one of my guesses.  I can probably stop though.  As that reaction exemplifies, I think its mostly the same set of people actively responding in the different threads, so my noobishness is well established already.

[Gimfalisette]

It just seems like it would be a real shame if someone puts months of good rp into a role, only to die by accidently fleeing into a DT or walk off a cliff when their cat jumps on the keyboard.  Anyway, I make the comment as an explanation, to avoid a reaction of "... how could you not know that? lol, noob!" if I'm particularly off-base in one of my guesses.

Few things:

1. We were all noobs once and did really dumb stuff. So I think players in general are pretty empathetic on this point. That is to say, just because you're a noob and do dumb stuff doesn't mean we think you are dumb. ('cause that'd be the pot calling the kettle black, amirite.)

2. Veteran players do dumb stuff, too. Sometimes that's code-related, sometimes it's related to playing drunk or high, sometimes it's the aforementioned cat, sometimes it's just not noticing things, sometimes it's your character making bad IC decisions. Doing dumb stuff is part of the game, and accidents happen. It may make players want to smash their keyboards in frustration, but eh, them's the breaks. Many a long-lived PC has died to exactly the kind of dumb thing you cite.

3. You can't be prepared for everything in the game, at all times, in perpetuity. And if you were, wouldn't that make it kind of boring? I know plenty of stuff about the game but the players continue to surprise and delight, which is the point of an RPI.

[Marauder Moe]

It just seems like it would be a real shame if someone puts months of good rp into a role, only to die by accidently fleeing into a DT or walk off a cliff when their cat jumps on the keyboard.

Quick thought adjustment: you don't put roleplaying into a role, you get roleplaying out of it.  RP isn't an investment, it's the reward.


It does suck when a character dies, but mostly for the lost potential, not for "wasted" time with them.  I've been way more upset from losing 2 week old characters with their whole lives ahead of them than losing a 2+ year characters who'd done and seen so many things.

[FantasyWriter]

It just seems like it would be a real shame if someone puts months of good rp into a role, only to die by accidently fleeing into a DT or walk off a cliff when their cat jumps on the keyboard.

Quick thought adjustment: you don't put roleplaying into a role, you get roleplaying out of it.  RP isn't an investment, it's the reward.


It does suck when a character dies, but mostly for the lost potential, not for "wasted" time with them.  I've been way more upset from losing 2 week old characters with their whole lives ahead of them than losing a 2+ year characters who'd done and seen so many things.

I'm with Moe.
I'm much more satisfied loosing a character who has been around for a while that I have enjoyed spending time with than loosing one a day or three out of character generation.

[Harmless]

I also agree with the character starting point restrictions. You may not like it on face value, but the rule came from LOTS of feedback from the playerbase over years that new players start in zones where they don't get to meet people and then they end up being lost to that. Whereas if they had started in Allanak or Tuluk they would be much more likely to find interaction and get a feel for the game, right away.

It's only for the first character, and as has been said, this doesn't mean the background of the character has to be that of a city-dweller. It's just where you start. If you want to explore the world, nothing is stopping you from leaving the gates. Your chances of finding a travelling partner is also much greater if you leave from the main two cities.

[icewindsong]

It just seems like it would be a real shame if someone puts months of good rp into a role, only to die by accidently fleeing into a DT or walk off a cliff when their cat jumps on the keyboard.

Quick thought adjustment: you don't put roleplaying into a role, you get roleplaying out of it.  RP isn't an investment, it's the reward.


It does suck when a character dies, but mostly for the lost potential, not for "wasted" time with them.  I've been way more upset from losing 2 week old characters with their whole lives ahead of them than losing a 2+ year characters who'd done and seen so many things.

I suppose I do see it slightly differently.  I agree that the roleplaying is the reward of playing, in my comment the investment was the time.  This is where I differ in view: that I don't think a few months would be enough.  I see roleplaying a character as akin to writing a story.  The protagonist usually starts out weak or ignorant in stories, and is shaped by events and an epic journey into a hero or accomplishing noteworthy deeds.  I would see a long-lived character to be like progressing into sequels where, after the original adventure, the author is tacking on "... and they did a few more things, and it was fun" in however many installations of 'more' there might be.  But a character dying too soon... 2 weeks would be like reading just the first few pages.  Significant emotional investment comes later, when one has had time to really figure out who the character is through play.  At least my pnp gaming characters have always been this way.. I write up their personality and background and make plans, but they take on a life of their own through play and it doesn't come right away.  In a couple of months hopefully I would have met a variety of people and be starting to explore the potential relationships with them (business, personal, antithetical, and so on).  In terms of a story, dying then would be like ending the Hobbit in chapter 3.  I'm going to enjoy my rp regardless, but I would definitely find it worse to lose a character after a few months than a few days because of that emotional investment in the character, and plans for rp with others that won't have a chance to happen.

That's my view anyway, but it is based on experience with other games.  Maybe I'll find its different in Armageddon.

[Reiloth]

In Armageddon, you are not the omniscient narrator. The story that unfolds for you is in many ways out of your control. You are the passenger on the roller coaster. The story you write is akin to novels where each chapter is frm one characters perspective, except as the "reader" we cannot read the other chapters in the book that are from other characters point of view.

Ginka is the author, and Staff are the editors. The tale you make will always have an end. Such is life. A PC might live a year IG, five, even twenty, but they will eventually succumb to death.

[Gimfalisette]

But a character dying too soon... 2 weeks would be like reading just the first few pages....In a couple of months hopefully I would have met a variety of people and be starting to explore the potential relationships with them

The average lifespan of a PC in Armageddon is about 2 weeks. (I did the math once.) If your PC lives a couple of months, most of the other PCs they will have met will be dead or stored or inactive. A handful will still be around. Your RP plans will be messed up by this factor more than any other. E.g., if you plan to have another PC killed, they will often just disappear into the desert instead, presumably getting eaten by a scrab.

If your PC makes it to a year, you'll find yourself regularly complaining IC that "everyone I knew is dead."

Generally speaking, relationships of any kind between PCs don't take a couple of months to get moving (My own personal goal is always to have someone wanting to kill my PC within an RL week.)

[Nyr]

icewindsong:  for what it's worth, the quickstart does say:

For your first character, you will only be able to start in Allanak or Tuluk. These are the two most populous places in the game and you are much more likely to run into another player in these locations. Additionally, we highly recommend that you choose to play a character from Tuluk in Tuluk, or a character from Allanak in Allanak--as mentioned above, there may be in-character consequences for being from one city and starting in another!

I think the intention is that if one were going to use the quickstart guide while making/prior to creating a PC, they'd use it and go through the "intro" pages in order.  Origin area tells you what that's about, and lets you know that your first PC is limited to starting in one of two areas.  Just below that you have the background (which is next in character generation).  In that document it links you to What You Know, detailing the other areas of the game and what you'd know about them if you were playing a PC from there.

If this notification needs to be more visible farther up the line, that can be changed, I think.  As it is, the What You Know page linked in the background entry does not appear to link to the individual What You Know pages that give more information, and that probably needs to be fixed.

[ShaLeah]

I'd like to see if the numbers that have stayed have changed since implementation in a considerable way. Any way to do that?

[X-D]

I just want to comment on the mentioning of "DT".
This is something that for the most part does not exist in arm.
There are a few areas...but at least one of them is well documented...and gives plenty of warning of HEY...IF YOU KEEP GOING YOU WILL DIE....
not like other muds where you only know it is dt after it gets you.   

[williamson]

I just want to comment on the mentioning of "DT".

When I see "DT", I'm thinking defensive tackle. What are you using that to mean?

[Nyr]

I just want to comment on the mentioning of "DT".

When I see "DT", I'm thinking defensive tackle. What are you using that to mean?

deathtrap, I think, with context?

[RogueGunslinger]

Dark Templar.

[Bushranger]

Deep-fried Tarantula.

Mmmmm...

[CodeMaster]

Resurrecting this thread to suggest: maybe new characters should also have their starting city as their hometown? (Or have it set as their 'hometown' even if they are from another area?).

I'm basing this suggestion on this recent thread from a new player (and some small number of newbies I've seen being from out-of-town and not knowing what ot do), as well as the fact that the directions command does not work anywhere but your hometown.