Armageddon Setting and Roleplay.

[Desertman]

There is no discrimination based on skin color in Zalanthas.

There can be discrimination based on skin health. Sun-damaged skin is indicative of commoners, laborers, etc. Pristine skin is indicative of the upper crust and, especially, the nobility. There are nobles with dark skin and there are commoners with light skin.

Tulukis tend to have lighter skin than Allanakkis, but there are plenty of exceptions in either city so it isn't something that would gain a lot of notice and it wouldn't be evidence that someone was from the wrong area.

When I see ivory skinned people, my characters generally notice. Be it a positive notice or a negative notice.

"Your skin never sees the sun, or it sees the sun and doesn't react like normal skin. You are either some prim prissy fluffy richer, or you are a strange mutant."

"Your skin never sees the sun, or it sees the sun and doesn't react like normal skin. You are wealthy, well kept, and hot. I love you, or you are a strange mutant."

Unless I am required to do this...(Then I guess I will.)

"Your skin never sees the sun, or it sees the sun and doesn't react like normal skin. I will pretend not to notice and completely ignore realism in this specific case, due to OOC rules."

[Wday]

Other then odd colour or lack of sun I never really think of skin on the people, But let it be race or inking or accent then the judging starts icly.

[flurry]

The documentation for various races (but especially human and elf) talk about skin color and how much variation there is with commonly seen skin tones, including those on the pale end of the spectrum. So I don't think any guesswork is needed. It's right there in the docs.

[Desertman]

The documentation for various races (but especially human and elf) talk about skin color and how much variation there is with commonly seen skin tones, including those on the pale end of the spectrum. So I don't think any guesswork is needed. It's right there in the docs.

Hmm. You are correct.

I do not agree with it. But, I will adhere to it. Fair enough.

[Delirium]

Characters are still allowed to have preferences, right? Or to think that very pale or unnatural colors are mutations?

Just like eye or hair color... eh, maybe I'll just have to concede this argument.

[Barzalene]

Hair I don't care

I and maybe I'm wrong, look at green skin and red eyes and think Ewww mutant!

[Marauder Moe]

I don't understand what's so hard about this.

Two things affect skin tone:
Natural skin color
Sun exposure

There is no stigma against people with naturally pale (or any other Earthly shade) skin.

However, when someone has naturally pale skin, it becomes easier to notice if they've endured relatively little sun exposure (they remain pale).  This is a lifestyle indicator just like any other physical lifestyle indicator.

I think it's fair to have opinions about other characters' lifestyles.

It may not be fair to use "pale", "milk-skin", and such as an insult, though.  Plenty of people with similar sun-free lifestyles have naturally darker skin, and thus it's not a very good stereotype.

[Malken]

You can think whatever you want and your PCs can have a wide range of preferences, of course.

But if docs tell you that there's a wide variation in skin tones, then it is assumed that the majority of people would not think as someone with fair or pale skin as a mutant.

Green skin is not part of the "including those on the pale end of the spectrum." variation stated by the docs.

Remember the "commonly seen" part of the doc. So by definition of it, pale skin would be common enough to not be considered a mutation.

So yes, you could probably declare that a pale-skinned woman spends most of her time sheltered from the sun, but it would definitely not be considered a mutation.

[Delirium]

I still think someone on the far end of the pale spectrum, especially in the south or among desert tribes, would be looked at as a mutant. Or at least as unusual.

Unless they were a noble, bc nobles are NEVER mutants, amirite.

[Lizzie]

I'm all for pale-skinned people. However, if they have pale skin, and they are constantly out in the sun (such as hunters, tribal people, farmers, grebbers), and they don't cover themselves head to toe, then I -will- assume there's something "wrong" with them. There is no sunscreen on Zalanthas. Frequently exposed skin in a harsh desert world would not stay pale for very long. It would either tan - or burn.

[Jherlen]

Unless they were a noble, bc nobles are NEVER mutants, amirite.

Or maybe... they're ALL mutants. Inbred mutants.

[Desertman]

I think it is pretty basic.

OOC'ly there is stigma associated with judging anyone for anything to do with the color of their skin. You can't make assumptions about their lifestyle, their genetic constants, or their habits just because they are a certain color.

Because of this OOC stigma, we have a steadfast IC rule against making any assumptions or judgments against anyone in game based on the color of their skin. Purple people are exactly the same as tanned desert people.

I don't agree with this stance, I however do understand why it is what it is, even if I think it should be changed because realistically it makes no sense.

[Marauder Moe]

No one is saying that purple skinned people aren't mutant freaks.

People are saying that pale skinned people are not mutant freaks.

[hyzhenhok]

Players who want to play with a taboo against pale skin have always struck me as letting RL stigma seep into the game. Using "milk-skin" as an insult strikes me as suspiciously similar to when I myself have been called ghastly or vampire-like when I haven't had much sun in a few months. It all strikes me as a very modern-day Earth, Western fashion and "health" sensibility to take pale skin as something ugly or mutated.

Pale is fine, even if the PC spends a lot of time outdoors. Allanaki fashion generally calls for most of the body to be covered up. Zalanthan desert gear tends to cover every inch of skin, including the face. In the rare cases when you have a pale-skinned character who spends all of his time running around out in the desert naked, okay, maybe you might want to hang a lantern on that and use it as an RP point. Otherwise, please no.

[Desertman]

No one is saying that purple skinned people aren't mutant freaks.

There is no discrimination based on skin color in Zalanthas.

[Marauder Moe]

Whether or not mutant skin colors was included in the context of that statement is unclear.

Of course, I believe it was not meant to be.

[Harmless]

I think there are two discussions here. The OP's question, and another interesting one about how different lifestyles should "look" in your mdesc and sdesc.

The OP is asking if there are ethnic appearance and if there is discrimination against them -- to this, Wug said no and that is indeed the policy. But that policy extends beyond skin tones, into shapes of faces, eyes, etc, which we on Earth associate with races.

My opinion on the second point: There is more than color to take into account here. A pale man, with blisters on his skin, or scars, or dirt or oil caking his skin, or any other conceivable quality of "ruggedness" can be safely assumed to be a wastelander given the valid points above on desert gear covering every inch of skin.

Desert gear protects again sun and sand, but not the other hazards one meets travelling -- sweat, body oil, bleeding wounds if applicable, plant matter, muscle strain and the effects it has, muscle bulk, whatever.

I give allowances to people for things that are idiosyncratic. I don't jump to calling them a mutant over one feature of the above.

If someone's PC has numerous features that go against an outdoorsy life: pale, dainty, soft-skinned, unblemished, unscarred, youthful, AND with well-kept hair to boot, then there IS a problem. It is unrealistic, and all of us players are supposed to point this out in our RP. The best thing to do is ask. Look for their answer ICly, don't make assumptions. People often think this shit out in advance.

For those of us who may feel self-conscious that our characters look too frilly for what they do -- don't worry about it. I put a lot of weight into cultural and ecological differences, too. A hunting life in shadier, less windy, less sun-blasted lands should and does look different.

The conventions that I've seen in game have been well done for the most part. I rarely see anyone "breaking" the above realism standards, if you could even call them that. To each their own. People get creative in this game, and if someone wants to be different, it isn't our place to be critical on the GDB.

[Qzzrbl]

No one is saying that purple skinned people aren't mutant freaks.

There is no discrimination based on skin color in Zalanthas.

Today is a victory for mutant rights everywhere.

[Malken]

Let's face it, Armageddon is a low-tan fantasy world.

[Barzalene]

More and more we do a phenomenal job on keeping our ic hate lively and ooc out of the game

Pale and purple included.

[Blur]

Actually I had no question. I suppose I just wanted to rant out a bad experience and wanted to give the game kudos for being designed in a way to avoid such experiences here. Something which Wug in turn re-enforced and confirmed.

As to what others brought up on the thread. Since there are many variations to skin color to me skin condition and health would probably be a better indicator of quality of life than the outright color. You aren't a racist for thinking fair skin tans under the sun or is an indication they might be a night dwelling rogue or perhaps a rich person who can stay out of the sun. Interestingly enough,while their skin tone could mean something, it can still mean something good or bad, to think it is just one or the other would be a stereotype.

Also, it does not make you a racist for finding fair skin more attractive than darker skin or vice versa. There is nothing wrong with having preferences and it is no different then having preferences for anything else on someone's body, after all some people like bigger noses, bigger breasts, bigger crotches while others might just prefer things more modest and others still might not give a damn and just be interested in what the person is like. However, there is a difference between having preferences and thinking a certain physical quality is superior/inferior to another. That having a certain physical quality or not having it makes a person sub-human and not worthy of living and prospering or that gives someone a right to degrade, humiliate, discriminate and even kill that person for having such a quality. All these thing which people sometimes just simplified as just Hate.

Hate exists in Zalanthas for things such as having pointy ears or having round ears, but it doesn't exist in this game for skin color as it does in RL.

Anyways I feel like I stepped on a bit of a landmine here which was not my intention. In all my time here racism based on skin color is not something I have ever experienced here which again made me completely forget for a moment that people brought their OOC prejudices into other games. That is a tribute to the awesomeness of this mud and the people who inhabit it which I think is really kudos worthy.    

[evilcabbage]

Actually I had no question. I suppose I just wanted to rant out a bad experience and wanted to give the game kudos for being designed in a way to avoid such experiences here. Something which Wug in turn re-enforced and confirmed.

As to what others brought up on the thread. Since there are many variations to skin color to me skin condition and health would probably be a better indicator of quality of life than the outright color. You aren't a racist for thinking fair skin tans under the sun or is an indication they might be a night dwelling rogue or perhaps a rich person who can stay out of the sun. Interestingly enough,while their skin tone could mean something, it can still mean something good or bad, to think it is just one or the other would be a stereotype.

Also, it does not make you a racist for finding fair skin more attractive than darker skin or vice versa. There is nothing wrong with having preferences and it is no different then having preferences for anything else on someone's body, after all some people like bigger noses, bigger breasts, bigger crotches while others might just prefer things more modest and others still might not give a damn and just be interested in what the person is like. However, there is a difference between having preferences and thinking a certain physical quality is superior/inferior to another. That having a certain physical quality or not having it makes a person sub-human and not worthy of living and prospering or that gives someone a right to degrade, humiliate, discriminate and even kill that person for having such a quality. All these thing which people sometimes just simplified as just Hate.

Hate exists in Zalanthas for things such as having pointy ears or having round ears, but it doesn't exist in this game for skin color as it does in RL.

Anyways I feel like I stepped on a bit of a landmine here which was not my intention. In all my time here racism based on skin color is not something I have ever experienced here which again made me completely forget for a moment that people brought their OOC prejudices into other games. That is a tribute to the awesomeness of this mud and the people who inhabit it which I think is really kudos worthy.    

In game I suspend my preferences and willingly have sex with any skin color. Out of game, I guess, I just find lighter or tan people more attractive than the ebony shade.

[armacc]

almond shaped eyes used to indicate elven blood, but now I see them everywhere...is this just new people who don't realize what they're doing or crafty old timers who are hinting at a possible breed?

[RogueGunslinger]

almond shaped eyes used to indicate elven blood, but now I see them everywhere...is this just new people who don't realize what they're doing or crafty old timers who are hinting at a possible breed?

Find out IC.

[Riya OniSenshi]

I don't recall reading anything in the documenations that states that almond eyes are a trait only exhibited by elves, and therefore also by half-elves. Sounds more that people are letting their d&d preconceptions bleed in when they shouldn't.