Since we feel like talking about Tuluk again.

[Dakota]

I think when some Boss of a Clan (not a Sarge.. but a leader), gets involved in some petty commoner thing between two PCs (one obviously affiliated with the clan).. It completely quells roleplay on the small, gritty, street level scale...

We need more Lannister's hands being cut off, as opposed to Daddy coming to save the day over petty, prideful, ego affairs..

IMO.

[Kismetic]

Shitcocking with your brothers in battle.  Very Spartan!

I do like surviving big RPTs with my homies.  As a whole, we can do better than another stale war.  Something more to scale with what we can affect in the game world.

[Desertman]

I think when some Boss of a Clan (not a Sarge.. but a leader), gets involved in some petty commoner thing between two PCs (one obviously affiliated with the clan).. It completely quells roleplay on the small, gritty, street level scale...

We need more Lannister's hands being cut off, as opposed to Daddy coming to save the day over petty, prideful, ego affairs..

IMO.

I think this goes back to a previous point I made in another post recently.

It probably has to do with people enjoying playing "heroes", even on a political level. "You insulted my minion, I shalt stand up for him/her and champion their cause!"

Also, people just like to be involved in the mix, from top to bottom.

[X-D]

I'm not saying Allanak sent those red-tabards running in the Copper War, but I am saying, get back to your land of rainbows and bunnies before you get your neatly manicured hand slapped again for trying to reach into Poppa-Tek's cookie jar.

Now that one is funny...specially when you consider who is showing off the copper.

Poppa-tek got an empty cookie jar and is welcome to it.

[Desertman]

I'm not saying Allanak sent those red-tabards running in the Copper War, but I am saying, get back to your land of rainbows and bunnies before you get your neatly manicured hand slapped again for trying to reach into Poppa-Tek's cookie jar.

Now that one is funny...specially when you consider who is showing off the copper.

Poppa-tek got an empty cookie jar and is welcome to it.

What does Tektrollness care about some metal? He is the Lord of Everything. The bringer of the dragon's flame to temper the pathetic and the weak in the heat of his omnipotent scorn. The one true King shits copper bells every morning, 8:30AM sharp.

Now step off, before Poppa-Tek has to start shitcocking you.

(Yes, I used that as a verb, I don't know what it means, but I have no regrets.)

[Iiyola]

The fact that so many have a (different) opinion of Tuluk and feel it necessary to reply to this thread, contrary to Nak where everything seems to be working fine, speaks for itself.

[Fredd]

I like wars because some of the best relationships I have ever forged with other characters in game came from fighting along side them and surviving amazing odds with them.

I've seen it several times in game. You take two people who don't like each other. Let them survive some event where maybe a few people die but they make it out alive together.

Instant lifelong friendships.

I love that.

Oh, I also like being able to shout "Shitcock!" in the middle of battle, because I'm from Allanak, and that's what I do. Deal with it.

I do love me some war. For about the same reason. Except the "shitcock" thing. I make better curses.

[RogueGunslinger]

The fact that so many have a (different) opinion of Tuluk and feel it necessary to reply to this thread, contrary to Nak where everything seems to be working fine, speaks for itself.

I suspect this stems more for bad luck, than anything. Sometimes when you play in an area and there aren't amazing roleplayers around you to bring a place to life, it can feel stale, and very surface-valued. So people don't get that in an area of the game, and decide to not risk playing there, and instead go somewhere more familiar where they've run into good roleplayers before.

I certainly know I've never played in Tuluk enough to get a proper feel for what it's -really- like. That basically just keeps me from playing there altogether. I know how to have fun in 'nak. I'm used to it, and I'm more willing to push through the stale times and wait for some better roleplayers to show up around me.

[Kismetic]

I durno, there, fella, last time I played in Allanak, people in the Gaj were too stuck up to talk, some dude forced a reaction on my character about his amazing sparkly eyes, and people were open about kanking gemmers.  Maybe it's changed in the last year, teehee

[Barzalene]

I think one could argue that we are arguing about Tuluk not Nak because nothing is wrong, but I think that is a very surface assessment.

Nak wasn't taken over.

Nak wasn't completely rebuilt.

Nak didn't have new docs written from scratchm ten or so years in, completely revamping the way game play takes place.

I think there may be problems with interpretation or with vision, but the alternative is to give up on it completely and have no discernible differences, or make changes that only some of the people will like and try to retcon them in.

Or we can work with what we've got and in time we'll do better with it or things will naturally evolve.

I don't think Tuluk is broken. I think it's harder to do right. I also think it's almost impossible to get everyone in a straight line all facing the same way at the same time in this sort of environment.

Finally, I think if there are things that don't work in Tuluk that they should be considered as individual points rather than grouping everything together and saying Tuluk doesn't work. Because you can go down a list and fix things one at a time far more easily than trying to fix an entire city.

[Delirium]

Barzalene is wise.

[Red Ranger]

I think when some Boss of a Clan (not a Sarge.. but a leader), gets involved in some petty commoner thing between two PCs (one obviously affiliated with the clan).. It completely quells roleplay on the small, gritty, street level scale...

We need more Lannister's hands being cut off, as opposed to Daddy coming to save the day over petty, prideful, ego affairs..

IMO.

Hey, I want more "Lannister's hands being cut off" too!  I've already posted in this very thread how I like the "RP" found in the Song of Ice and Fire series.  But... Have you read the books or been watching the show, though?  Cuz if you're upset about "Boss" PCs getting overly involved in minor incidents then you actually don't want more "Lannister's hands being cut off."  That's a scenario where the literal "Daddy" is heavily concerned and "Daddy" happens to be kinda important.  Like more important to the world of ASoIaF than 99.99% of all PCs are in Zalanthas.  In the most recent television episode he even explicitly makes the point of how actively concerned he is.  Daddy doesn't fail to "save the day" because it's beneath him, but cuz he's unable to.  Also (spoiler alert!): Daddy's minions don't treat the hand cutter super nicely in the books.

So yep, we agree that the "Lannister's hands being cut off" scenario is a succinct illustration of how it should work in Tuluk.  Piss off the wrong people, and Daddy gets involved.  Especially if Daddy is petty, prideful, and egotistic... which describes the vast majority of important characters in ASoIaF as well as most noble and templar PCs in both Tuluk and Allanak.  If you want to survive as a "rough and tumble" hand cutter in Tuluk then you gotta be a little more careful about... well, I've already posted some of the considerations that I think are important.

[Zoan]

I like it when you say Daddy.

[RogueGunslinger]

I like it when you say Daddy.

LOL <3

[Riev]

After six pages of this, I'm calling for a bit of a change.


Can we talk about what we feel is wrong/difficult/not working in OUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCES, to either get people to assist with our perceptions, or help figure out just what isn't working?

I'm getting -real- annoyed at the few people who 'get' Tuluk, telling the rest of us to "get over it". I don't want to get over my issues with Tuluk. I want to understand it, or explain what is difficult for me to understand, so that we can have a real discussion. Without certain people feeling like they need to get defensive.

Please?

[Barzalene]

I prefer discussion to debate.
It's a good idea.

[Desertman]

The fact that so many have a (different) opinion of Tuluk and feel it necessary to reply to this thread, contrary to Nak where everything seems to be working fine, speaks for itself.

I never have thought of this.

That is very interesting actually.

[Riya OniSenshi]

Or it's because this is a thread about Tuluk - not Allanak.

It's all part of the plan:
Topic - Stay on it.

[musashi]

I think when some Boss of a Clan (not a Sarge.. but a leader), gets involved in some petty commoner thing between two PCs (one obviously affiliated with the clan).. It completely quells roleplay on the small, gritty, street level scale...

We need more Lannister's hands being cut off, as opposed to Daddy coming to save the day over petty, prideful, ego affairs..

IMO.

Hey, I want more "Lannister's hands being cut off" too!  I've already posted in this very thread how I like the "RP" found in the Song of Ice and Fire series.  But... Have you read the books or been watching the show, though?  Cuz if you're upset about "Boss" PCs getting overly involved in minor incidents then you actually don't want more "Lannister's hands being cut off."  That's a scenario where the literal "Daddy" is heavily concerned and "Daddy" happens to be kinda important.  Like more important to the world of ASoIaF than 99.99% of all PCs are in Zalanthas.  In the most recent television episode he even explicitly makes the point of how actively concerned he is.  Daddy doesn't fail to "save the day" because it's beneath him, but cuz he's unable to.  Also (spoiler alert!): Daddy's minions don't treat the hand cutter super nicely in the books.

So yep, we agree that the "Lannister's hands being cut off" scenario is a succinct illustration of how it should work in Tuluk.  Piss off the wrong people, and Daddy gets involved.  Especially if Daddy is petty, prideful, and egotistic... which describes the vast majority of important characters in ASoIaF as well as most noble and templar PCs in both Tuluk and Allanak.  If you want to survive as a "rough and tumble" hand cutter in Tuluk then you gotta be a little more careful about... well, I've already posted some of the considerations that I think are important.

For the record, this is a very inappropriate analogy. Jamie Lynaster is the son of the HEAD of a noble house hold.

Yeah. Cut the hand off the child of a noble house's head hancho NPC and the full weight of that clan will bear down on you like a vengeance. No one disagrees. We just havent ever been talking about anything remotely resembling such a hypothetical. Jamie is by no stretch of the imagination a low ranking anybody.

[Malken]

Can we talk about what we feel is wrong/difficult/not working in OUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCES, to either get people to assist with our perceptions, or help figure out just what isn't working?

I'm getting -real- annoyed at the few people who 'get' Tuluk, telling the rest of us to "get over it". I don't want to get over my issues with Tuluk. I want to understand it, or explain what is difficult for me to understand, so that we can have a real discussion. Without certain people feeling like they need to get defensive.

Please?

I really wish I could find the thread where the new changes for Tuluk were introduced.. It has to be somewhere on the old board, someone please find it..

We are playing in a system that is nothing like what it should have been, I feel like Tuluk was an experimentation that failed and we are still using that same failed system years later.

There's just not enough players playing in Tuluk to make the vision of what it was supposed to be like compared to what it is today.

Allanak is part of the old system and hasn't changed much over the years, the system works, it's simple and efficient.

Tuluk requires a way of thinking that is alien to most players and requires too many roles being played in it to make it work, but since I wrote about it just a couple of days ago and it was completely ignored by the usual Tuluki cheerleading, I wont' waste my breath again.

[greasygemo]

I don't know. I've always seen Allanak as really straightforward, and Tuluk as like, twisty and confusing.

Let me explain as best I can via a sample scenario.

"Random Local Elf gives merchant of Surif House the finger."

Nak

Merchant complains to Aide or directly to Noble family member if they are favored enough and/or kanking the Noble. Noble has the elf thrown in a pit or otherwise murder him in some public fashion because, fuck elves. And because, hey, that Noble House hasn't executed a dirty necker for insubordination in weeks. Plus Blue robe over there owed them a favour anyway.

Tuluk

Merchant complains to Patron Chosen or GMH Leader player. Chosen or Leader player goes to Faithful, gets permission to detain him or asks for him to be detained. Chosen or Leader player might investigate the elf first to see if he has any connections to people they don't want to piss off before axing him.

Couple RL days later, Elf is detained by Legionaires, or the Faithful, or the Surif/GM House or some combination of the above

Elf disappears a while, no one is sure what happened to him, but people don't talk about it openly much, though if you know the right people you might hear that he got in shit for irritating Merchant Amos of Awesomehouse

Suddenly, Elf comes back, he's more quiet lately, don't see him as much around. You wonder if he didn't give buddy the finger after all or if he bribed his way out of dying.

You overhear someone murmuring about how he pleaded for his life or something, and a Templar told a story about some time in the past where such a situation was met with a second chance so they gave him one, because, insert some reason you will never know and the story you will never hear.

RL weeks later, Elf fucks up again later, pisses some Surif House hunter off this time, but that hunter doesn't have the clout to actually do anything about it like that other merchant, their Chosen Lord or Lady or Leader Player isn't really all that partial to them, so this hunter take matters into his own hands and goes to murder that elf themselves out in the woods. He botches it, the elf flees and goes into hiding again. He plays off peak mostly now.

But, as a result of that, someone who knows that elf in passing talks about how he almost got ganked by Amos the Hunter in a bar one day, and someone who reports to the Lirathan order gets wind of it, tells a Faithful Lady who gets PISSED that this hunter dude attempted to commit an unlicensed murder so she asks him to come have a chat and the hunter is never seen again but no one ever talks about it because it's just not something you talk about.

Then the mate of the dead hunter who only half knows, but assumes she knows, what happened after her hunter guy never came home from his meeting with Faithful Lady Doomsbane, starts saving up her sids and buys a contract on the elf from that same Faithful Lady who murdered her man, and probably gives her a donation to show how she trusts the judgement of the Faithful and is sorry for her mates actions and doesn't want them to reflect on her.

Some Templarate assassin ganks the Elf a month later when he least expects it and no one knows it. He just stops showing up at his normal times and everything goes on as usual.

[Lizzie]

In my observance it's sort of more like what greasygemo says, but not quite. Here's my interpretation of what *I* observe:

Elf pisses you off. You tell your clan leader. Within a few RL days, you both conclude that it's okay to watch Elf and see if he is pissing other people off too. Meanwhile, you hire a bard to make fun of the elf.

A few weeks later, you see the elf is still pissing people off, but now he's a few weeks more powerful in terms of coded skill. Whatever he can do - he can now do much more efficiently.

At this point, you go back to your clan leader, who tells you a few RL days after that, that it's okay if the elf disappears as long as your clan's name is kept out of it.

So you try to find a middle-man - some kind of agent who can speak with the templars on your behalf, without getting you or your clan's name invovled. This takes around 2 RL months. Meanwhile, elf is fully maxed on his basic skills, has branched all of his secondary skills, has mastered some of them, and has branched a few of his tertiary skills. You're dealing with a mighty powerful elf now.

FINALLY - you find that middle-man, who now has to communicate with a templar. This takes another RL month. Meanwhile, Mister Elf (who now gets to be called Mister because he is so powerful, and rich, and scary, and annoying) is pissing a whole lot of people off, and no one has done anything about it, because everyone has spent the last four months TALKING about doing something about it.

The middle man FINALLY gets in touch with a templar - and you find yourself on the other side of the mantis head the next time you log in - because Mister Elf was powerful and rich enough to hire an assassin to kill you first.

[musashi]

Silly Lizzie. You didn't know you can pay extra to keep your name off contracts you take out on people? Should have read the docs and saved yourself 3 RL months 

[RogueGunslinger]

In my observance it's sort of more like what greasygemo says, but not quite. Here's my interpretation of what *I* observe:

Elf pisses you off. You tell your clan leader. Within a few RL days, you both conclude that it's okay to watch Elf and see if he is pissing other people off too. Meanwhile, you hire a bard to make fun of the elf.

A few weeks later, you see the elf is still pissing people off, but now he's a few weeks more powerful in terms of coded skill. Whatever he can do - he can now do much more efficiently.

At this point, you go back to your clan leader, who tells you a few RL days after that, that it's okay if the elf disappears as long as your clan's name is kept out of it.

So you try to find a middle-man - some kind of agent who can speak with the templars on your behalf, without getting you or your clan's name invovled. This takes around 2 RL months. Meanwhile, elf is fully maxed on his basic skills, has branched all of his secondary skills, has mastered some of them, and has branched a few of his tertiary skills. You're dealing with a mighty powerful elf now.

FINALLY - you find that middle-man, who now has to communicate with a templar. This takes another RL month. Meanwhile, Mister Elf (who now gets to be called Mister because he is so powerful, and rich, and scary, and annoying) is pissing a whole lot of people off, and no one has done anything about it, because everyone has spent the last four months TALKING about doing something about it.

The middle man FINALLY gets in touch with a templar - and you find yourself on the other side of the mantis head the next time you log in - because Mister Elf was powerful and rich enough to hire an assassin to kill you first.

That OR, the elf just dies to some wilderness npc's and is never heard from again.

[Harmless]

I wouldn't mind seeing a poll with these questions (if someone agrees with this idea then feel free to make the poll or +1 this post and I could do it later):

Please select which of the following best describes your PCs with regards to having the six-pronged star and blue and purple inked band:

1. The majority of my PCs do not have Tuluki tattoos, but I also enjoy Tuluki-inked PCs
2. The majority of my PCs do not have Tuluki inks, and I do not enjoy playing PCs with them and do not plan to soon

3. The majority of my PCs have been Tuluki-inked, but I also enjoy non-inked PCs
4. The majority of my PCs have been Tuluki-inked, and I do not enjoy playing PCs without them and do not plan to soon

5. I can't say which I play more, but I enjoy having Tuluki inks
6. I can't say which I play more, but I do not enjoy having Tuluki inks


My hypothesis is that there will be a lot of 2's, very few 1's (allanaki players will tend to disdain playing as Inked), whereas the 3's and 4's would be more evenly split (Tuluki players don't have as strong a preference).

Between five and six, I think there will be more sixes.