Since we feel like talking about Tuluk again.

[Kismetic]

Someone explain to the noobs how Tuluk works.  

Also, if you're Tuluki born, you should have the inks.  Or a good reason why you don't, and are participating in that particular metagame.  By example, "Oh, I am a citizen of Tuluk, Faithful Lady, I was born right over there in the Warrens."  Two days later ...  "Oh, no, Lord Templar.  I've never even been to Tuluk!"

[Harmless]

Ah, yes, thanks Kismetic, I guess I should have explained that in the post. We do have quite a lot of new players lately.

[Malken]

Someone explain to the noobs how Tuluk works.  

Also, if you're Tuluki born, you should have the inks.  Or a good reason why you don't, and are participating in that particular metagame.  By example, "Oh, I am a citizen of Tuluk, Faithful Lady, I was born right over there in the Warrens."  Two days later ...  "Oh, no, Lord Templar.  I've never even been to Tuluk!"

The fact that there hasn't been any real new Chosen Lords or Ladies of note in the last three years except for the two that have been there forever now (and I have absolutely nothing bad to say about them, these guys are geniuses!) should show you that many of us, even though we've played in Tuluk for HOURS and DAYS and YEARS are all a bunch of "clueless noobs" as you say. Most of the ones I've seen end up storing within a month, and that's being generous.

When's the last time you saw a new Faithful Lady as well?

The HEART of Tuluk is all about the Faithful Ladies and we barely ever see any PCs playing them anymore.

[Kismetic]

I'm of the opinion that you only need one very good Lirathan, and a couple of Jihaens.  The city runs just fine on that.  There's enough commoner peons to get out and crack skulls, usually.

I admit, it's not perfect, but I've seen Tuluk in stages of awesome activity.  You'd never have a hard time finding someone active, and this was before the Gungan insurgence of noobs.  From all I could gather, Allanak was a wasteland of stubborn vets, and die-hard diehards, during that time.  You couldn't pay me to play in Allanak, then.  And yet, there seems to be a constant theme in this thread of "I won't do it, NEVAR!" and "I don't understand, so, logically, you should make it betta."

[Malken]

I admit, it's not perfect, but I've seen Tuluk in stages of awesome activity.  You'd never have a hard time finding someone active, and this was before the Gungan insurgence of noobs.  From all I could gather, Allanak was a wasteland of stubborn vets, and die-hard diehards, during that time.  You couldn't pay me to play in Allanak, then.  And yet, there seems to be a constant theme in this thread of "I won't do it, NEVAR!" and "I don't understand, so, logically, you should make it betta."

Just for the record, 90% of my characters have been played in Tuluk in the past, and in the last two years, I must have spent hundreds of hours on a single character who spent 99% of his time in Tuluk, so I'm not just speaking out of my ass, I think.

I really want to make Tuluk a better place, but I just think it won't work the way it's going now and it hasn't worked for a long while now.

I think some roles should be looked over again and made a -little- easier to play and enjoy for a wider group of players.

Again, you just have to look at the number of roles that are constantly opened up for Tuluk and how quickly these people end up storing, you can't just keep throwing roles hoping that you'll finally find someone that'll stick with it.

I don't know what it's like in Allanak, I can't tell you if roles offered are stored just as quickly as they are in Tuluk, but I have a feeling that they are not, because there's a bit more freedom and less political-genius and Tuluki encyclopedic knowledge needed to play them.

[greasygemo]

I wouldn't mind seeing a poll with these questions (if someone agrees with this idea then feel free to make the poll or +1 this post and I could do it later):

Please select which of the following best describes your PCs with regards to having the six-pronged star and blue and purple inked band:

1. The majority of my PCs do not have Tuluki tattoos, but I also enjoy Tuluki-inked PCs
2. The majority of my PCs do not have Tuluki inks, and I do not enjoy playing PCs with them and do not plan to soon

3. The majority of my PCs have been Tuluki-inked, but I also enjoy non-inked PCs
4. The majority of my PCs have been Tuluki-inked, and I do not enjoy playing PCs without them and do not plan to soon

5. I can't say which I play more, but I enjoy having Tuluki inks
6. I can't say which I play more, but I do not enjoy having Tuluki inks


My hypothesis is that there will be a lot of 2's, very few 1's (allanaki players will tend to disdain playing as Inked), whereas the 3's and 4's would be more evenly split (Tuluki players don't have as strong a preference).

Between five and six, I think there will be more sixes.

I like to play in Tuluk but WITHOUT inks at all. Yeah! There is your hard mode god damn it. I'm a Luirs born random dude, but I think Imma live in your city. How do you like THAT huh? HUH?

[musashi]

I admit, it's not perfect, but I've seen Tuluk in stages of awesome activity.  You'd never have a hard time finding someone active, and this was before the Gungan insurgence of noobs.  From all I could gather, Allanak was a wasteland of stubborn vets, and die-hard diehards, during that time.  You couldn't pay me to play in Allanak, then.  And yet, there seems to be a constant theme in this thread of "I won't do it, NEVAR!" and "I don't understand, so, logically, you should make it betta."

Just for the record, 90% of my characters have been played in Tuluk in the past, and in the last two years, I must have spent hundreds of hours on a single character who spent 99% of his time in Tuluk, so I'm not just speaking out of my ass, I think.

I really want to make Tuluk a better place, but I just think it won't work the way it's going now and it hasn't worked for a long while now.

I think some roles should be looked over again and made a -little- easier to play and enjoy for a wider group of players.

Again, you just have to look at the number of roles that are constantly opened up for Tuluk and how quickly these people end up storing, you can't just keep throwing roles hoping that you'll finally find someone that'll stick with it.

I don't know what it's like in Allanak, I can't tell you if roles offered are stored just as quickly as they are in Tuluk, but I have a feeling that they are not, because there's a bit more freedom and less political-genius and Tuluki encyclopedic knowledge needed to play them.

Allanak has put out a role call for Templars in December, then February, then March.

We haven't had a northern Templar role call since December.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, I reckon.

[BleakOne]

Maybe the role calls have been more... subtle? 

Allanak is my preferred place, but I'd really miss Tuluk if it was gone.

[Eurynomos]

There is often more longevity to Tuluki Templarate roles.

Is there anything else to go over here guys or have we all had our fill of haterade?

[Kismetic]

I'm sorry, but I have to reach for my lightsaber when people start dissing Tuluk and calling it fluffy bunny and incapable of true grit.  I had a long experience there that contradicts that notion.

You haters silly.  Y'all can go d-ride Tek, s'cool

[palomar]

I really want to make Tuluk a better place, but I just think it won't work the way it's going now and it hasn't worked for a long while now.

I think some roles should be looked over again and made a -little- easier to play and enjoy for a wider group of players.

Being genuinely curious about what you said, what isn't working and which roles do you think should be reviewed and made a little easier?

I know you've played a lot in Tuluk, but have you tried to "be the change"? I'm not saying there's a guaranteed success, or that it's even possible in some cases, but it's worth considering.

If you're talking about sponsored roles like nobles and templars being too difficult, I don't think that's the whole truth. There's a lot of reasons behind storage of such PCs that aren't necessarily unique to Tuluk.

[ShaLeah]

There is often more longevity to Tuluki Templarate roles.

Is there anything else to go over here guys or have we all had our fill of haterade?

I'm curious as to whether or not there is more longevity in Tuluk period, not just Templarate.

[Cutthroat]

Someone explain to the noobs how Tuluk works. 

Also, if you're Tuluki born, you should have the inks.  Or a good reason why you don't, and are participating in that particular metagame.  By example, "Oh, I am a citizen of Tuluk, Faithful Lady, I was born right over there in the Warrens."  Two days later ...  "Oh, no, Lord Templar.  I've never even been to Tuluk!"

The fact that there hasn't been any real new Chosen Lords or Ladies of note in the last three years except for the two that have been there forever now (and I have absolutely nothing bad to say about them, these guys are geniuses!) should show you that many of us, even though we've played in Tuluk for HOURS and DAYS and YEARS are all a bunch of "clueless noobs" as you say. Most of the ones I've seen end up storing within a month, and that's being generous.

When's the last time you saw a new Faithful Lady as well?

The HEART of Tuluk is all about the Faithful Ladies and we barely ever see any PCs playing them anymore.

It's hard to say whether what can be the revolving-door nature of Tuluki sponsored roles sometimes, is because Tuluk is confusing, or for some other reasons. I think it's harder to settle into sponsored roles in general, and like palomar said those challenges aren't necessarily unique to Tuluk. I won't go through the staff announcements too heavily, but a cursory glance reveals several Allanaki roll calls mixed in with Tuluki ones. If there is more of one than the other from the past 12 months, the difference is probably very slight.

There is a trove of documentation and help available from staff that anyone entering into any sponsored role would have all the information they can. Tuluk is likely no exception. We know how much public documentation there is for Tuluk in general - imagine the amount of private docs there must be for each individual Surif House, the Faithful Orders, etc. Staff and helpers are around to acclimate people to new roles. New Chosen and Faithful are likely not being sent in blind.

One main problem a sponsored role might run into is finding minions at the outset. New roles finding few or no employees or partisans might simply give up looking and store. This might be more of a problem in Tuluk since there are more clan and patronage options for characters. Add to that the popularity of being independent and sponsored roles have a smaller pool to draw minions from. But as I said somewhere earlier in the thread, we see a lot more players on nowadays. If the trend of 70+ players on at peak every day continues, this issue will soon be less of a problem.

Maybe staff will be willing to (vaguely) share why sponsored roles, especially Tuluk ones, stored in the past year or two. I suspect that most will have done so due to playtimes but a few may have had uniquely Tuluk problems that can help guide this discussion.

[Molten Heart]

One thing I've noticed is that Tulukis are generally very resistant (often refusing) to working with people that aren't inked citizens.  I think this  creates an unnecessary barrier for roleplay that isolates them.  Sure noble houses should only hire inked citizens into their ranks, but that doesn't mean everyone should be as zealous.  I also don't think partisans should necessarily need to be inked either.

[Riya OniSenshi]

One thing I've noticed is that Tulukis are generally very resistant (often refusing) to working with people that aren't inked citizens.  I think this  creates an unnecessary barrier for roleplay that isolates them.  Sure noble houses should only hire inked citizens into their ranks, but that doesn't mean everyone should be as zealous.  I also don't think partisans should necessarily need to be inked either.

That's not just a situation caused by one side - both are equally at fault.

Partisanship, however, is a defining part of Tuluki culture, and a non-citizen attempting to play one on TV (so to speak) is a direct insult to that culture. A Chosen/Faithful that would take a non-Citizen as a formal partisan is just asking for trouble, at the very least.

EDIT:
While the link still works, http://old.armageddon.org/general/tuluki_rp.html - this explains where the system of partisanship came from. It should make why it would be ingrained that non-Citizens attempting to be partisans would be insulting to a Citizen of Tuluk more clear.

[Maso]

PLEASE DO NOT PUT GAME OF THRONE SPOILERS IN THREADS NOT SPECIFICALLY FOR DISCUSSING GAME OF THRONES.

Yes, the caps were necessary.

[palomar]

There is a difference between non-citizens and non-citizens. People from the south will find very few opportunities for work with anyone in Tuluk, but there are various groups of people from the north (especially the lands around Tuluk proper) that are involved in the Tuluki economy to some extent. It's usually as suppliers of raw materials and resources. They won't be hired or offered patronage, though. The same is true for non-citizen tribals, coded and virtual.

[Molten Heart]

One thing I've noticed is that Tulukis are generally very resistant (often refusing) to working with people that aren't inked citizens.  I think this  creates an unnecessary barrier for roleplay that isolates them.  Sure noble houses should only hire inked citizens into their ranks, but that doesn't mean everyone should be as zealous.  I also don't think partisans should necessarily need to be inked either.

That's not just a situation caused by one side - both are equally at fault.

Partisanship, however, is a defining part of Tuluki culture, and a non-citizen attempting to play one on TV (so to speak) is a direct insult to that culture. A Chosen/Faithful that would take a non-Citizen as a formal partisan is just asking for trouble, at the very least.

EDIT:
While the link still works, http://old.armageddon.org/general/tuluki_rp.html - this explains where the system of partisanship came from. It should make why it would be ingrained that non-Citizens attempting to be partisans would be insulting to a Citizen of Tuluk more clear.

I'm just saying, the A'jinn Academy was  the end result of a non-citizen partisan (granted he later did become a citizen, but he -was- a partisan from the south before he was a citizen).  Of course citizen partisans would be more prestigious, but the point of partisanship isn't prestige, it's about getting something through a partnership that one can't get done on their own[edited to ad: or at least do it better/more efficiently].

[Riev]

So far as my experience with Tuluki Templars, the -main- reason I stored my Jihaen was because when I was accepted in, there were three staffers watching over us. After a couple of weeks playing, all those staff stopped working, or moved to Legend, and Nyr had to oversee the clan.

I'm not saying I stored because of Nyr, but that he had his own groups to watch, and it felt to me like if I needed something I didn't have the staff support I normally would. By the time I stored, there were three brand new staff that had no idea who I was, never picked me for the role I was in, and I was just over it.

My experience is -incredibly- rare, and there were other factors involved. I can't speak for other players as to why their Templars or Nobles didn't last.

[solera]

the A'jinn Academy was  the end result of a non-citizen partisan

The old saying
  "The exception proves the rule."

[Molten Heart]

It's simply the best example.  My point being that Tuluk could stand to be less xenophobic to the point of exclusion.

[Reiloth]

So far as my experience with Tuluki Templars, the -main- reason I stored my Jihaen was because when I was accepted in, there were three staffers watching over us. After a couple of weeks playing, all those staff stopped working, or moved to Legend, and Nyr had to oversee the clan.

I'm not saying I stored because of Nyr, but that he had his own groups to watch, and it felt to me like if I needed something I didn't have the staff support I normally would. By the time I stored, there were three brand new staff that had no idea who I was, never picked me for the role I was in, and I was just over it.

My experience is -incredibly- rare, and there were other factors involved. I can't speak for other players as to why their Templars or Nobles didn't last.

In a role like Templar...Why exactly did you need constant Staff support, though? IIRC, there is plenty of coded power available to Templars, if they are able to self-start and create their own plots and bring people/organizations into them. The same with T'zai Byn Sergeants. They don't really need a lot of Staff hand-holding, they just go and do. Sponsored roles, especially Templar roles, are not for everyone. They are actually for a very few, that truly get how to do it properly. That's why Nobles/Templars that STICK to the role truly stay around for a long ass time. They get it.

Not trying to bash your Templar Skillz, but it sounds like you weren't really into the PC, and that doesn't seem to have much to do with how many/what Staff are around. If 3 new Staff popped into my clan, i'd be filled with joy! I wouldn't store immediately because they 'don't get me'. So...I guess i'm saying Tuluki Templar may just not be the role for you.

[Barzalene]

I like the xenophobia. Not that I'm the arbiter of all that is good.

[Fredd]

One thing I've noticed is that Tulukis are generally very resistant (often refusing) to working with people that aren't inked citizens.  I think this  creates an unnecessary barrier for roleplay that isolates them.  Sure noble houses should only hire inked citizens into their ranks, but that doesn't mean everyone should be as zealous.  I also don't think partisans should necessarily need to be inked either.

That also comes with pride. Tuluki's are very proud of there little police state. They also still remember the occupation. I don't think it makes a barrier to roleplay, I think it makes sense, and provides more roleplay.

[roughneck]

I used to think that Tuluk wasn't gritty enough. There was one day when this known elf-lover was giving a well-to-do pc a hard time for something in the Sanctuary, borderline threatening. I was all like, 'what the hell, kick her ass! Tuluk is full of softies' in my head.

Then, I was offered coins to murder her. She was pregnant. My pc did it, then squeezed some extra out of the deal.

Murdering a pregnant woman for coins? Yep, that's gritty enough for me.