Never met you, but, you are sexy.

[Morgenes]

For the record, we are talking about making true-names not be contactable either.  Just their current keywords based on their sdesc alone.  Name, any extra keywords you may have added will not work.

Honestly the idea that true-names somehow hold more power is something staff have tried to downplay and are poised to outright say they don't matter.  If we go ahead with this change, the name of your character will be a convenience for you and staff for determining what to call the character.  To all other players, it won't matter unless they do 'addkeyword <person> <keyword>'

[Desertman]

For the record, we are talking about making true-names not be contactable either.  Just their current keywords based on their sdesc alone.  Name, any extra keywords you may have added will not work.

Honestly the idea that true-names somehow hold more power is something staff have tried to downplay and are poised to outright say they don't matter.  If we go ahead with this change, the name of your character will be a convenience for you and staff for determining what to call the character.  To all other players, it won't matter unless they do 'addkeyword <person> <keyword>'

Morgenes, if you ever need a kidney, just call me, you have now earned the rights to my spare kidney.

[Maker]

For the record, we are talking about making true-names not be contactable either.  Just their current keywords based on their sdesc alone.  Name, any extra keywords you may have added will not work.

Honestly the idea that true-names somehow hold more power is something staff have tried to downplay and are poised to outright say they don't matter.  If we go ahead with this change, the name of your character will be a convenience for you and staff for determining what to call the character.  To all other players, it won't matter unless they do 'addkeyword <person> <keyword>'

I vote Yea to this change.  If it makes any difference, I am willing to volunteer DM's other kidney to you...

[Lizzie]

Anyone who's played long enough and knows the system will have no trouble at all getting around any of the changes suggested, somehow or another.

The only people who will be -truly- inconvenienced, are new players who haven't learned the system yet, and don't know why they can't ever get in touch with the Byn Sergeant everyone keeps telling them to look for.

As for assigning me with the task of "pinning" keywords to people just so that I can way my character's own mate, forget it. Totally and completely not interested. The more OOC constructs and syntaxes and special exceptions and what not required, just to do a simple task that is already coded, the less people are going to want to do it. As it is, I already ignore the fact that the "mood" command exists. This would just be one more thing I'd ignore.

[kayza]

Don't agree with the barrier change either..

Basically you want people to not know you are online/around.
I would argue that there is no real benefit to the game to allow everyone to do this.

One day, you will do something that isn't really -that- heinous, but every good and neutral-aligned PC in the Known World will hunt you mercilessly, and you will have nowhere to hide, because everyone will know exactly what you look like.  They'll know exactly when you're online (sometimes literally within seconds).  You will never have met the vast majority of them.  Oftentimes, they'll even know your guild and subguild, and know what to bring and how to counter it.  If this doesn't at least annoy you, you may not be humanoid.

What you are describing is no different than any other abuse of the coded system we have.

You can't just try to fix all abuse with code... that just isn't going to work.  Also changing the code brings up other problems. 

As I said in the other thread the problem is I don't want to see it easier to be more anonymous.  I think abusing that is far worse than what we have now.  Really that is my problem with it changing.  A whole slew of people deciding I want to be a sneaky type because the staff made it easier. 

What makes me more mad is when I run into that hooded figure..and I ask what their name is and they say "slim".. Luckily those characters tend to not last long.

[Synthesis]

For the record, we are talking about making true-names not be contactable either.  Just their current keywords based on their sdesc alone.  Name, any extra keywords you may have added will not work.

Honestly the idea that true-names somehow hold more power is something staff have tried to downplay and are poised to outright say they don't matter.  If we go ahead with this change, the name of your character will be a convenience for you and staff for determining what to call the character.  To all other players, it won't matter unless they do 'addkeyword <person> <keyword>'

How would clans like the Byn handle recruiting, if they could no longer post "contact Sarge Amos or Malik" posts on the rumor board?  It seems like potential recruits would have to sit around waiting for Amos or Malik (which kind of defeats the purpose of having the recruiting post on the board in the first place), or the posted rumor would have to have sdesc keywords in it for newb PCs to get ahold of the Sarges.

[hyzhenhok]

For the record, we are talking about making true-names not be contactable either.  Just their current keywords based on their sdesc alone.  Name, any extra keywords you may have added will not work.

Honestly the idea that true-names somehow hold more power is something staff have tried to downplay and are poised to outright say they don't matter.  If we go ahead with this change, the name of your character will be a convenience for you and staff for determining what to call the character.  To all other players, it won't matter unless they do 'addkeyword <person> <keyword>'

How would clans like the Byn handle recruiting, if they could no longer post "contact Sarge Amos or Malik" posts on the rumor board?  It seems like potential recruits would have to sit around waiting for Amos or Malik (which kind of defeats the purpose of having the recruiting post on the board in the first place), or the posted rumor would have to have sdesc keywords in it for newb PCs to get ahold of the Sarges.

"Those interested in joining up are told to contact Sergeant Amos of the Obsidian Fists. Those who ask what he looks like are told that Amos is particularly a tall and muscular man."

I don't see an issue with it. Honestly it makes more sense that in order to actually find a specific someone named "Amos" in a giant city like Allanak or Tuluk that you would at least need to know not only his name but also what he looks like, where he hangs out, etc.

[Synthesis]

For the record, we are talking about making true-names not be contactable either.  Just their current keywords based on their sdesc alone.  Name, any extra keywords you may have added will not work.

Honestly the idea that true-names somehow hold more power is something staff have tried to downplay and are poised to outright say they don't matter.  If we go ahead with this change, the name of your character will be a convenience for you and staff for determining what to call the character.  To all other players, it won't matter unless they do 'addkeyword <person> <keyword>'

How would clans like the Byn handle recruiting, if they could no longer post "contact Sarge Amos or Malik" posts on the rumor board?  It seems like potential recruits would have to sit around waiting for Amos or Malik (which kind of defeats the purpose of having the recruiting post on the board in the first place), or the posted rumor would have to have sdesc keywords in it for newb PCs to get ahold of the Sarges.

"Those interested in joining up are told to contact Sergeant Amos of the Obsidian Fists. Those who ask what he looks like are told that Amos is particularly a tall and muscular man."

I don't see an issue with it. Honestly it makes more sense that in order to actually find a specific someone named "Amos" in a giant city like Allanak or Tuluk that you would at least need to know not only his name but also what he looks like, where he hangs out, etc.

Yeah, nothing's wrong with it, if you're willing to accept what was previously considered borderline abuse as the new norm. 

[Maso]

are told that Amos is particularly a tall and muscular man."

That's even worse....

[hyzhenhok]

For the record, we are talking about making true-names not be contactable either.  Just their current keywords based on their sdesc alone.  Name, any extra keywords you may have added will not work.

Honestly the idea that true-names somehow hold more power is something staff have tried to downplay and are poised to outright say they don't matter.  If we go ahead with this change, the name of your character will be a convenience for you and staff for determining what to call the character.  To all other players, it won't matter unless they do 'addkeyword <person> <keyword>'

How would clans like the Byn handle recruiting, if they could no longer post "contact Sarge Amos or Malik" posts on the rumor board?  It seems like potential recruits would have to sit around waiting for Amos or Malik (which kind of defeats the purpose of having the recruiting post on the board in the first place), or the posted rumor would have to have sdesc keywords in it for newb PCs to get ahold of the Sarges.

"Those interested in joining up are told to contact Sergeant Amos of the Obsidian Fists. Those who ask what he looks like are told that Amos is particularly a tall and muscular man."

I don't see an issue with it. Honestly it makes more sense that in order to actually find a specific someone named "Amos" in a giant city like Allanak or Tuluk that you would at least need to know not only his name but also what he looks like, where he hangs out, etc.

Yeah, nothing's wrong with it, if you're willing to accept what was previously considered borderline abuse as the new norm.  

I don't think using someone's sdesc words to describe them is considered abuse at all. The feeling that it is unrealistic to identify someone based on their sdesc depends a lot on the sdesc; my understanding is the person who chose a generic sdesc to stop people from realistically describing them to others are just as much engaged in borderline abuse.

Now instead just OOC annoyance there would be actual IC consequences for having zero uniqueness to your sdesc. If you want to make a character whose sdesc makes him hard to single out, fine. But it's going to make it hard for people to find your mind all the time rather than just being something you use to complain OOC when you get caught.

As long as the playerbase doesn't make a habit about of always referring to people by by sdesc where currently they would just use a name it wouldn't be an issue at all.

[brytta.leofa]

I would actually okay with not being able to contact anyone you haven't met.

[vissa]

That strikes me as a dreadful idea.  I'm not at all convinced that the scale of the problem -- and I assume that the problem is still "it's too hard for criminal/spy/sneaky types to maintain a measure of anonymity" -- comes anywhere close to justifying the inconvenience this would cause.   I die a little inside whenever I see someone rattle off an sdesc verbatim (though, actually, I don't see it very often), but under the proposed system this would not only be normal, but expected.  Short of knowing someone's exact sdesc, you'd be stuck playing a guessing game with the Way, or tavern sitting in the hopes that whoever you're trying to meet turns up -- and if you're a casual player, an off-peak player, a member of a clan with a schedule, or someone who doesn't like sitting in taverns, that's going to be pretty damn inconvenient.

And God help the poor soul who's trying to get in touch with Lord Derparian Oash, the atramentous, achromatic-eyed man, as there are only a handful of individuals in the Known who'd be able to tell you how to contact him without breaking character.

Is it unrealistic that you can contact someone you've never met and immediately know something* about their appearance, bearing in mind that we are talking about wacky mind magic here?  I'm not struck by any glaring internal inconsistencies, though perhaps it's just because I'm used to it and can accept that, for whatever reason, the Way works such that when you contact someone you get a vague sense of how they look.  That's just the Way it is (har har..)

Strengthening barrier vs. contact would offer some improvement without the across-the-board inconvenience, though I have no idea whether that would be as simple a change as it appears to someone who has no knowledge of "behind the scenes/find out IC" factors.

* And none of my characters ever treat it as more than a vague knowledge.  I've seen enough incongruent sdescs/mdesc combinations -- and still more where I've made assumptions based on an sdesc, only to realize upon reading the mdesc that I missed the mark entirely -- to never, ever trust an sdesc to give me a full or even an accurate picture of a given PC's appearance.  I can't believe I'm the only one to approach it this way.

[Maso]

Is it unrealistic that you can contact someone look someone up on Facebook you've never met and immediately know something* about their appearance... 

The Way could just be like a massive, wireless network that everyone's brains have evolved to be connected to. Zalanthas is just earth...millions of years into the future....they don't even need computers anymore...in fact, they've even forgotten what they were (since they were destroyed in some apocalypse or another)...Tek and the Sun King are the only ones with servers left hidden in their basement....

I'm not sure where I'm going with this.....but basically it's a fantasy game thus I can wrap my head around just about any premise.

[Maso]

For the record, we are talking about making true-names not be contactable either.  Just their current keywords based on their sdesc alone.  Name, any extra keywords you may have added will not work.

Honestly the idea that true-names somehow hold more power is something staff have tried to downplay and are poised to outright say they don't matter.  If we go ahead with this change, the name of your character will be a convenience for you and staff for determining what to call the character.  To all other players, it won't matter unless they do 'addkeyword <person> <keyword>'

I like this in the sense that it would mean....you could...      ...re-use names!

[brytta.leofa]

Proposal:

Contacting by keyword works ONLY when you're in the same room.
The tall, muscular man is standing here.
> contact tall
You contact the tall, muscular man.
> cease
The tall, muscular man walks north.
> contact tall.muscular.man
Contact who?

Contact doesn't reveal anything to you about the contactee.
The figure in a dark hooded cloak is standing here.
> contact figure
You contact the figure in a dark hooded cloak.
The figure in a dark hooded cloak walks north.

As well as naming people in the room with you, you can assign a name to anyone you've succesfully contacted, and use it to contact him again.
> name contact Sneaky
You name the figure in a dark hooded cloak "Sneaky."
> cease
> names
Talia - the rugged, war-braided woman
Sneaky - the figure in a dark hooded cloak
> rename Sneaky Bob
You now know the figure in a dark hooded cloak as "Bob."
> contact Bob
You contact Bob.
> psi Did you get the stuff?

When someone sends YOU a psionic message, his sdesc is revealed.
A foreign presence contacts your mind.
The blue-eyed, bob-tailed man sends you a telepathic message:
  "Y', I g't 't."
> names
Talia - the rugged, war-braided woman
Bob - the blue-eyed, bob-tailed man

[Nyr]

Code Select Expand

You sing, in tatlum:
     "Hey, I haven't met him
      and this is crazy
      but here's his sdesc...
      arrest him, maybe?"

There, now you guys can get that song stuck in your head if it wasn't already there due to the title of this thread.

[Bluefae]

     Given that this is my starting point:

    Before I ever knew there was a controversy about how and when it was appropriate to Contact others (ah, the "blushing ingénue" days  ), I always thought of first-time, same-room psi-ing as though my character were deliberately concentrating on the object of her curiosity.  As in, it wasn't that she could distinctly see the features of the person (assuming the previously-cited voluminous hood, et al.), but rather was reaching out with her mind via line-of-sight and connecting with another sentient.
    Once "inside", at least on a surface level, she had some sense of what the other's likeness would be.  I'm not certain this is in line with what the Staff has promulgated, but it seems to be.  I'll readily admit this makes more sense with some sdescs vice others.  

     How about this as a somewhat simple compromise:  the initial Way connection between the two parties must be in the same room.  This establishes a kind of psychic "link" between the pair.  From there, the Way operates as per normal. 

     An important tweak would be:  if you are successfully hidden, and no one can see you, you can't be Wayed by those who haven't yet established the psi-link.  This mechanic would represent the "deliberate concentration" sited above (or phrased differently, if I can see them with my eyes, I should be able to contact their mind).  If this wasn't in place, I could see some folks typing "contact dark.cloak" or some other tomfoolery if they suspected they were being shadowed.

     In this system, sneakies could remain anonymous until and unless at least one person fingered them in the flesh, so to speak.  No, it wouldn't prevent same-room sdec sniffing, but then, I'm not sure that's truly an issue.

     A downside to this, as Synth already stated, is that newbies (especially) might have a hard time finding a Byn Sergeant/Kadian Agent/other potential employer or point of contact.  I'd be up to the staff to decide if this con outweighed the cessation of gray-area code abuse.   

[Bluefae]

     Hm, Brytta, looks like we're proposing variations on a theme.  =)  I was trying to make mine as streamlined as possible.  Yours looks more nuanced, though, and would allow for far more player customization.

[Kismetic]

I've suggested this before, and it's really rather simple if you eliminate the contact message.  Then, just like any wireless, magickal head conversation, you have to make sure you've got the right target.

Code Select Expand


cont Amos
You contact a foreign presence.

psi Oh, hey, is this Amos?
You send a telepathic message to the tall, muscular man:
"Oh, hey, is this Amos?"


Neither party knows who is who until a single message is breached, eliminating all silliness for good.  Because, I mean, who is going to psi "Hey, just gettin' ur sdesc, bro.  Carry on"??

Alternatively, you can just change "A foreign presence contacts your mind" to "(sdesc) contacts your mind."  Clearly, the problem is that psionics affords the initiator a level of unnecessary anonymity.

[Maso]

Proposal:

Contacting by keyword works ONLY when you're in the same room.
The tall, muscular man is standing here.
> contact tall
You contact the tall, muscular man.
> cease
The tall, muscular man walks north.
> contact tall.muscular.man
Contact who?

Contact doesn't reveal anything to you about the contactee.
The figure in a dark hooded cloak is standing here.
> contact figure
You contact the figure in a dark hooded cloak.
The figure in a dark hooded cloak walks north.

As well as naming people in the room with you, you can assign a name to anyone you've succesfully contacted, and use it to contact him again.
> name contact Sneaky
You name the figure in a dark hooded cloak "Sneaky."
> cease
> names
Talia - the rugged, war-braided woman
Sneaky - the figure in a dark hooded cloak
> rename Sneaky Bob
You now know the figure in a dark hooded cloak as "Bob."
> contact Bob
You contact Bob.
> psi Did you get the stuff?

When someone sends YOU a psionic message, his sdesc is revealed.
A foreign presence contacts your mind.
The blue-eyed, bob-tailed man sends you a telepathic message:
  "Y', I g't 't."
> names
Talia - the rugged, war-braided woman
Bob - the blue-eyed, bob-tailed man

What would happen if you contacted Sneaky...(before his sdesc had ever been revealed to you)...but he was no longer wearing the cloak? Would he be forever remembered as the dude in the cloak?

[Maso]

I like Kismet's idea. Keep it simple.

If any of this were to happen. Which I don't even really feel is all that necessary. What are we talking about again??

[Marauder Moe]

Close, but this was suggested earlier:

Code Select Expand


cont Amos
You contact a foreign presence.

psi Oh, hey, is this Amos?
You send a telepathic message to a foreign presence:
"Oh, hey, is this Amos?"

A foreign presence contacts your mind.

The tall, muscular man sends you a telepathic message:
"Yes.  This is Amos."


Several people have already pointed out some serious flaws with the personal keyword system, and I'm starting to reconsider that indeed it might cause more trouble than it could cause, psionically speaking.  Now, while such a system might still be a good idea in general, it may be better to do something like the above fake example for psionics.

In the above system, it stops sdesc sniffing.  The sniffee needs simply to not respond and no one gets an sdesc off them.  However, people can contact strangers, and still verify identities and have a secure conversation simply by exchanging greetings.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I don't like the above. Many times, I've tried to contact pcs I've known and wound up contacting an npc instead. I would rather it just give the contacting party's sdesc to the person being contacted, as has also been suggested.

[Akaramu]

I don't think the system we currently have is a -huge- issue, a few twinks or newer players might abuse it, will will hopefully learn to treat its flaws in a more sensible way in the future. If any change needs to happen - I hope staff won't remove the ability to contact templars, Byn sergeants etc in name without having actually met them. It can already be quite difficult to get ahold of a clan recruiter as is, requiring that they are available face-to-face might turn into a huge playability issue, especially for offpeak players.

[Synthesis]

Code Select Expand

You sing, in tatlum:
     "Hey, I haven't met him
      and this is crazy
      but here's his sdesc...
      arrest him, maybe?"

There, now you guys can get that song stuck in your head if it wasn't already there due to the title of this thread.

Thread won.