Never met you, but, you are sexy.

[Synthesis]

I've not changed my stance on these things from the start, good sir.  I've suggested them in previous threads, galore.  I disagree with your intelligent parsing method, as I think that needlessly changes our perception of the Unseen Way.  If you're not on the 'mental image' ship, you need to climb aboard, sailor.

Intelligent parsing was brytta.leofa's idea, actually.  I do think it's a good one if we aren't going to pursue a barrier-boost solution.  Hell, it would be a good idea in addition to barrier-boost solutions.

I think Options B and C were my ideas (both barrier-boost solutions), and someone else came up with Option D (also a barrier-boost).

So it seems the crux of the matter is that you think sdesc-sniffing should be legal, but made to be more difficult (especially if someone is trying to actively avoid it), and I think sdesc-sniffing is stupid and shouldn't be possible at all. I'm fine with being able to mentally image someone who you've met (even if it's as little as seeing them once in a crowd), or someone who has sent you a message themselves.  I'm not okay with being able to mentally image someone when you only know their name. I kind of envision 'contact' for mundanes as a really shitty version of Google, where you search for a keyword, but only the keywords get highlighted until the target sends a message back to you.  You can search for everyone named Amos, but the only thing you're going to know about them is that they're named Amos.  You can search for all dwarves named Amos, but the only thing you're going to know about them is that they're dwarves named Amos.  Mindbenders get the upgraded version, where with nothing more than a name or an eye color, they can delve into your deepest, darkest secrets, and discover that you have a tattoo of a dragon on your ass.

That's not a particularly drastic overhaul of anything, so I'm going to have to call shenanigans on your hyperbole.

[Schrodingers Cat]

> contact figure  (in the room)
You contact the figure in a dark hooded cloak.

As far as contacting people in the same room, I think this solves that problem.

[Kismetic]

Ideally, I would prefer a world where Amos jumped into the mind of your hooded PC, crashing their nearly impossible to beat barrier by using it repetitiously, and because they went to such trouble, you now have no choice but to kill them in a dark alley.  And you can.  Because you know their sdesc.

[Nyr]

You linked me to a response of yours that addresses how you can contact a person you've never met, but it doesn't address why one should expect to be able to know what said person looks like.   Going by what you linked, it does seem like your saying the code is the way it is and saying that you can "see" someone using psionics is simply justifying the code being the way it is.  Whether it's because no one really feels like messing with it or ignorance as to why it was designed that way...whatever.  I was just trying to sort out why the expectation existed in the first place.  

This is a text-based game.  This text-based game has coded elements to it.  The code supports a roleplaying experience in which players are expected and required to roleplay (see help rules, rule 1).  The code is a certain way and it can be modified.  Currently, the code allows a PC to use a command to contact other PCs and NPCs.  While doing this, they get the short description of the person that they have contacted. 

Some people may take this to be an IC thing.  Others may not.  Still others may view it as a mix of both--that it's the best that the system can do presently, so let's have a little bit of "give" on both sides of the equation (it's IC to imagine how someone looks after you contact them psionically, but it's not intended to be a verbatim regurgitation of an sdesc).  The latter explanation is probably the best one.  Regardless of your expectations, staff acknowledges that this (like other things in the game) can be abused and that abuse should be referred via player complaint.

All sides have something they can point to if they want to do so until such a time that there is a coded change.

We're looking at one option as Morgenes mentioned.  It may not be feasible.  However, in the grand scheme of things, this code has probably been this way for longer than most of you (and many staff members) have been playing the game.  If we change the code, great.  If we don't, okay--but you'll live, and you'll probably be bringing it up again a couple more years down the road. 

[Maso]

We're looking at one option as Morgenes mentioned.  It may not be feasible.  However, in the grand scheme of things, this code has probably been this way for longer than most of you (and many staff members) have been playing the game.  If we change the code, great.  If we don't, okay--but you'll live, and you'll probably be bringing it up again a couple more years months down the road. 

[Lizzie]

it doesn't address why one should expect to be able to know what said person looks like.  

I just wanted to comment on this one part of Maker's post.

Knowing that someone is "the tall, dark man" is not the same as knowing what they look like. The same applies for even better-detailed sdescs:

the wyvern-inked half-giant

Do you know where that ink is on the half-giant's body? Do you know how many wyvern inks there are on the half-giant's body? What color is his hair? Or scratch that - what color is HER hair? Which gender is it, anyway? Fat, thin, tall for their race, short for their race, what color skin? Any particular scars? Is the HG in possession of all appropriate limbs and normally-visible body cavities? Etc. etc. etc.

or even -more- descriptive:

the one-handed green-skinned man

The only thing you know about him, is he's a he - he has one hand, and he has green skin. Now granted, it's not likely you'll run into many green-skinned men who only have one hand. But if he's walking around with his arms hidden by a cape, for all you know, the guy you find in the scrub -might- be a different green-skinned man who has both hands, and isn't the guy you're looking for at all.

Could be there's twin green-haired men, who got caught doing something wrong, and the templar chopped off one hand on each of them. One of them wears only black. The other wears only red. Which one are you looking for?

When the Way lets you see a person's sdesc, you have to remember that it's very possible there are *hundreds* of people living in Zalanthas who would fit that sdesc, even if that isn't their actual sdesc.

The tall muscular man - might be Amos, whose sdesc is the tall muscular man.
The tall muscular man - might be Malik, whose sdesc is the green-skinned one-armed man - but Malik is tall, AND he is muscular.

You're getting just a tiny teeny eenie weenie bitty little bit of detail about a person when you find them over the Way. You get the same amount of detail when you see them in the bar, but don't "look" at them. Or if you see them 2 leagues away in the Red Desert with their hoods down.

The fact that you get their sdesc, even if they're unhooded, is because you're not waying their outfit. You're waying their minds.

[Bluefae]

     At this point, I think there's some merit to the position of "No Way messages ever give sdec (excepting mindbenders)."  So it's all "A foreign mind sends you", all the time.  Newbies might still be Contacting NPCs vice recruiters, but the problem wouldn't be as drastic as if they had to meet said representative in person.  And of course, sdec-sniffing would be impossible.

     Does anyone have an elegant solution for the I'm-stuck-Waying-NPCs-and-I-don't-know-it snag?

[Marauder Moe]

I figure you'd tell the same way as if you're speaking to an NPC; if they don't reply, they're likely an NPC.

[Bluefae]

I figure you'd tell the same way as if you're speaking to an NPC; if they don't reply, they're likely an NPC.

     Fair enough.

[AmandaGreathouse]

Unless they're busy, or linkdead, or simply ignoring you.

And I find it curious that it says images right in the helpfile can be sent, yet people are worried about their sdesc being gotten.

It's just a part of how shit works.

It's how you know you've found the person you're looking for.

[Lizzie]

Or their psi skill sucks and they are TRYING to respond but are unable to find your mind.
Or they're really great with the Way but they are already mind-talking to someone else.
Or they have been mindbent and are incapable of responding for some nefarious evil mindbender-related reason.

In fact, there was even a time when an NPC had found my character's mind and needed a response - but it turned out that the staffer who sent the psi, was occupying a duplicate NPC at the time. So when I tried to contact the NPC, I wasn't able. The "original" NPC was not contactable at all. She was like perma-barriered or something. After wishing and waiting for investigation, I learned that you had to contact 2.talia, and not just talia.

[Scarecrow]

Or we could just leave it how it is.

[Delirium]

Or we could just leave it how it is.

*gasps, clutches chest, falls over*

Agreed.

[Akaramu]

Or we could just leave it how it is.

*gasps, clutches chest, falls over*

Agreed.

This. I'm too worried about no longer being able to join clans by waying recruiters I've never seen to really look forward to any change.

[Synthesis]

Or we could just leave it how it is.

*gasps, clutches chest, falls over*

Agreed.

This. I'm too worried about no longer being able to join clans by waying recruiters I've never seen to really look forward to any change.

Intelligent parsing avoids that problem.

[Refugee]

Well, I've read this all through, and while I can see (and have experienced) the unpleasant sdesc sniffing thing, I just accepted it as how stuff works here, muttered a little, and gamed on.  Everything that's been suggested seems that it'd complicate meeting new people and expanding my roleplay circle, which is the only reason I'm here after all.  Otherwise I'd just play Civ!

So, I'm for leaving it as it is, as the lesser of evils.

[Synthesis]

omfg

How would making barrier more effective, or changing sdesc keywords to names when using the Way (if you targeted with a name) make anything more difficult, beyond the obvious making it more difficult to sniff sdescs?

Have some god damn faith that Morgenes isn't going to fuck up the game.  Have some faith that if there are unintended consequences, those consequences will be addressed.

Really though, I think the problem here is that you don't understand half of what's being discussed, read some of the more dimwitted posts in the thread, panicked, shut down your rational thought processes, and jumped straight to, "change bad."  That's the only rational explanation for how you could so utterly fail to approach these proposals with a legitimate critique.  I'm not saying you're incapable of it, but slow down...study the arguments, and then get back to us with something that actually makes sense.

[Delirium]

[kayza]

I have faith they are going to leave at is.. discussion doesn't mean they are going to do it.

[Harmless]

(Edited for politeness)

+1 to modifications to barrier that will aid paranoid sneaky types. (I'd like the decaying type if possible, or whatever imms decide.) It'll make mindbenders more interesting too.

+1 to changes that will make expel a useful skill. Seriously, as it is now, it is only useful if you're a VIP. If the identity of who you contacted was hidden until you send that first PSI message, then you've built in a time delay that makes expel useful for any common criminal.

-1 to lazy retorts to proponents of changing barrier/contact. I don't care if changes happen soon or at all either, but the changes I am saying above do NOT have any impact on your ability to find recruiters. That's the only valid complaint I've heard, and yet it still fails completely in the face of my +1's.

[Akaramu]

I don't find expel an useless skill. I suppose most PCs are just (realistically) too ignorant or not paranoid enough to realize when would be a good idea to use it.

[RogueGunslinger]

Expel? Never used it in over 5 years save for that one time I wanted to piss off my PC's boss.



Barrier... Now THAT is a useless skill.

[Akaramu]

Barrier... Now THAT is a useless skill.

Agreed.  I wouldn't mind seeing it made more useful.

[AreteX]

Forever and always there will be a line players eventually cross when it comes to their characters and staying "in character."  That line usually gets crossed right around the time their character might die.  Some people might suddenly become smart instead of stupid to avoid death.  Some people might give a perfect sdesc example to the law enforcement and have someone killed who mugged them even though they wore five layers of masks and fourteen hooded cloaks in the dead of night.

Its just the way it is, or at least it's how I've experienced it so far.

I do feel like I am one of the few people who see's something happen and when asked to describe the person doesn't give obvious sdesc descriptions.  "The muscular, black-haired man"... which is rather generic becomes "Uh, he was strong and shit, beat me senseless.  Had dark hair too."  Or even better, "He was ten feet tall!  HUGE!  He had hands like a scrab!  Dark and swirly death-magic!  Oh, Highlord!  Help us all!"  Then you can spread mass panic and all that when it was really, "The willowy elf" who kicked your ass and you just dont want to admit to it.

Nothing specific.  Thats how it should be unless someone is the, "Flamboyantly rainbow color haired lass with the obvious hot-pink full-face tattoo."  And even then, if she had a mask on...

I mean its interesting and all to remove the element of knowing who you are contacting, but personally, it would just be annoying and not really solve the issue at hand anyway.  Do you know how many times I've contacted NPC's based on the fact someone's name or sdesc is similar?  I really don't need to be sending way messages and spending more time/stun to find out I didn't even find my friend.  I sometimes did anyway, because I ended up waying the same NPC so many times I just talked to them every so often, but you get what I mean.

[kayza]

Forever and always there will be a line players eventually cross when it comes to their characters and staying "in character."  That line usually gets crossed right around the time their character might die. 

I don't believe that is true.