Never met you, but, you are sexy.

[Nyr]

You should file a player complaint when you feel that another player is breaking the rules of the game.  See help rules for details on the rules of the game. There is no rule against sdesc-sniffing.  Should any of this change, we'll let you know.

[Desertman]

You should file a player complaint when you feel that another player is breaking the rules of the game.

There is no rule against sdesc-sniffing.  

Since we have confirmed now that there is no rule against sdesc sniffing with the Way, I can't very well feel that someone sdesc sniffing with the Way is against the rules. How can I feel something when I know for a fact that the truth is the exact opposite?

I may not like the fact that sdesc sniffing with the Way isn't against the rules, but I do like the fact that this has now been officially confirmed, and I thank you for that.

[Morgenes]

What if it worked the other way.  What if you always saw sdescs:


The muscular, scarred dwarf contacts your mind.

> contact muscular.scarred.dwarf
You contact the muscular scarred dwarf with the Way.

[Desertman]

What if it worked the other way.  What if you always saw sdescs:


The muscular, scarred dwarf contacts your mind.

> contact muscular.scarred.dwarf
You contact the muscular scarred dwarf with the Way.

That would be fine, but it wouldn't have anything to do with the issue being discussed in this thread, unless I am misunderstanding?

If sdesc sniffing with the Way isn't against the rules, and we have confirmed that it is not against the rules, then this proposed change really wouldn't affect that at all I don't think.

Am I confused here?

[AmandaGreathouse]

I like that idea Morgenes. Then you know who's finding you and you know who you're finding. It'd be more helpful to people contacting in general and you'd also not need to talk to someone so that you know you've gotten the right mind. It's not exactly like a telephone, and even if it is, they do have caller id now.

[Morrolan]

What if it worked the other way.  What if you always saw sdescs:


The muscular, scarred dwarf contacts your mind.

> contact muscular.scarred.dwarf
You contact the muscular scarred dwarf with the Way.

Not sure I am a fan. That would advantage people with common names, oddly. Or make the Way a heck of a lot less popular.

"Well, there is this other Malik, and the Lord Templars are looking for him, and so is Black Buck."

[Morgenes]

I've heard numerous complaints over the years, one of the biggest is the issue of people contacting and withdrawing.  I thinks leads to a lots of people thinking people are sdesc sniffing (which is not against the rules), when really they may have just accidentally used the wrong keyword, or ran across a common name.

Today, you have no clue who is contacting you, this would at least arm you with the knowledge of who has just sdesc sniffed you.

*shrug* it's a thought, and the counterpoint that I hadn't seen offered to the complaint that you can see sdescs on contact but not being the contactee. 

[Wday]

I would love it if you saw who contacts you. Thumbs up on that

[Desertman]

I've heard numerous complaints over the years, one of the biggest is the issue of people contacting and withdrawing.

This doesn't bother me at all. I can see how it might bother some people.

I thinks leads to a lots of people thinking people are sdesc sniffing (which is not against the rules), when really they may have just accidentally used the wrong keyword, or ran across a common name.

I can see how that would bother some people. But again, it doesn't bother me.

Today, you have no clue who is contacting you, this would at least arm you with the knowledge of who has just sdesc sniffed you.

I guess, I would prefer neither party knew who contacted them until an actual telepathic message was sent.

*shrug* it's a thought, and the counterpoint that I hadn't seen offered to the complaint that you can see sdescs on contact but not being the contactee. 

My only concern at all is this...


contact Talia

You contact the small, one-handed, nine-toed girl with the Way.

Cease
Ok

You say in southern-accent sirihish, "I've never met Talia before, but, I can tell you that Talia is small, she has one hand, and she has nine toes. That is who you are looking for."

That is my only problem.

Unfortunately, that isn't against the rules.

[Schrodingers Cat]

I'd prefer a situation where sdesc information was only sent when information was transferred, sort of like what's being presented, but only part of it.  Contacting someone's mind wouldn't reveal a sdesc but sending or receiving a message would reveal the recipient/sender's sdesc as it does currently.

[Desertman]

I'd prefer a situation where sdesc information was only sent when information was transferred, sort of like what's being presented, but only part of it.  Contacting someone's mind wouldn't reveal a sdesc but sending or receiving a message would reveal the recipient/sender's sdesc as it does currently.

Yup, this is exactly what was proposed. 

[Schrodingers Cat]

I'd prefer a situation where sdesc information was only sent when information was transferred, sort of like what's being presented, but only part of it.  Contacting someone's mind wouldn't reveal a sdesc but sending or receiving a message would reveal the recipient/sender's sdesc as it does currently.

Yup, this is exactly what was proposed. 

Oh I was confused then.  I read it as being that the sender would never see the sdesc of the person being contacted, even while sending them messages, making it impossible for me to confirm who I was sending messages too unless they responded appropriately.

[Nyr]

contact Talia

You contact the small, one-handed, nine-toed girl with the Way.

Cease
Ok

You say in southern-accent sirihish, "I've never met Talia before, but, I can tell you that Talia is small, she has one hand, and she has nine toes. That is who you are looking for."

That is my only problem.

The "you" in that scenario has no clue whether that's the right Talia if he's never met Talia before.

[Morgenes]

I don't understand how that is any different than getting it up front.  I don't see how the act of sending a message will reduce it anymore, let me amend your example:

Code Select Expand


contact Talia

You contact a foreign presence with the Way.

You send a telepathic message to  the small, one-handed, nine-toed girl:
  'hi'

Cease
Ok

You say in southern-accent sirihish, "I've never met Talia before, but, I can tell you that Talia is small, she has one hand, and she has nine toes. That is who you are looking for."

All this does is add the cost of the psi to the cost.  I suppose Talia has a few seconds to try an expel.

[manipura]

I've heard numerous complaints over the years, one of the biggest is the issue of people contacting and withdrawing. 

This only bothers me because, for half a second, I think "Oh!! Oh!!  Someone needs me for something!" and then I realize that they don't.

It's like being a socially awkward, introverted teenager with a sibling who is a popular social butterfly.  Every time the phone rings you run to it thinking that maybe someone is finally calling for you and instead they just ask for your brother.

[Desertman]

contact Talia

You contact the small, one-handed, nine-toed girl with the Way.

Cease
Ok

You say in southern-accent sirihish, "I've never met Talia before, but, I can tell you that Talia is small, she has one hand, and she has nine toes. That is who you are looking for."

That is my only problem.

The "you" in that scenario has no clue whether that's the right Talia if he's never met Talia before.

That is true, and that is extremely helpful if you stick to very common names like Talia and Amos.

But if you have a name like...Garisolth.

How many of those do you suppose there are in a playerbase with 65 people on in peak times?

So...I will change the scenario....


contact Garisolth

You contact the small, one-handed, nine-toed girl with the Way.

Cease
Ok

You say in southern-accent sirihish, "I've never met Garisolth before, but, I can tell you that Garisolth is small, she has one hand, and she has nine toes. That is who you are looking for."

[Desertman]

I don't understand how that is any different than getting it up front.  I don't see how the act of sending a message will reduce it anymore, let me amend your example:

Code Select Expand


contact Talia

You contact a foreign presence with the Way.

You send a telepathic message to  the small, one-handed, nine-toed girl:
  'hi'

Cease
Ok

You say in southern-accent sirihish, "I've never met Talia before, but, I can tell you that Talia is small, she has one hand, and she has nine toes. That is who you are looking for."

All this does is add the cost of the psi to the cost.  I suppose Talia has a few seconds to try an expel.

This isn't what I'm proposing.

What I am proposing is as follows:

You send a telepathic message to  a foreign presence:
  'hi'

Now if they reply you will get this....


The small, one-handed, nine-toed girl sends you a telepathic message via the Way:
"Oh, hi Amos, how are you?"

(Original post edited to make this more clear, sorry about that.)

[Nyr]

I guess my point is that the example is pretty contrived.  For some reason unbeknownst to me, I'm asking this person who Garisolth is.  This person doesn't know who Garisolth is and hasn't met them, but gosh golly, they know what they look like.  If sdesc-sniffing isn't against the rules (currently the case), I'll sdesc sniff them on my own because I already know the person's name and their name is associated with how I find their mind, no?  I don't need this other person to tell me something I can find out on my own, especially if they preface their response with "I have never met them, but..."

[Rhyden]

What if it worked the other way.  What if you always saw sdescs:


The muscular, scarred dwarf contacts your mind.

> contact muscular.scarred.dwarf
You contact the muscular scarred dwarf with the Way.

This is a great idea and one I believe would benefit the world wide way network immensely.

As someone who frequently gets the "A foreign presence contacts your mind" then they withdraw right after, I think this would prevent these little annoyances and encourage people to practice safer, more accurate waying methods.

edit: It doesn't solve D-man's sdesc-sniffing dealie but it wouldn't hurt. At least the person on the other would know -who- is sdesc-sniffing.

[Desertman]

I guess my point is that the example is pretty contrived.  For some reason unbeknownst to me, I'm asking this person who Garisolth is.  This person doesn't know who Garisolth is and hasn't met them, but gosh golly, they know what they look like.  If sdesc-sniffing isn't against the rules (currently the case), I'll sdesc sniff them on my own because I already know the person's name and their name is associated with how I find their mind, no?  I don't need this other person to tell me something I can find out on my own, especially if they preface their response with "I have never met them, but..."

Here is your scenario...

A thief named Garisolth steals a fancy golden dildo from Lady Fale.

A theif named Garisolth gets away with it and is not seen by anyone.

A month later Lady Fale is raging because someone stole her golden dildo, but she has no idea who did it.

A thief named Garisolth, who also goes by the name Yarsimal in the Rinth tells one of his Rinth buddies he has a golden dildo for sale and that if anyone is interested they should seek out Yarsimal.

Well, Garisolth's buddy starts blabbing.

Eventually, a rumor gets back to Lady Fale that some theif named Yarsimal stole her golden dildo.

Lady Fale then does the following...

contact Yarsimal

You contact the golden-dildo thief with green eyes, one leg, and a dragon tattoo via the Way.

cease
You dissolve the psychic link.

You say in Fale-accented Sirihish to the tavern at large, "A thief named Yarsimal who has green eyes, one leg, and a dragon tattoo stole my golden dildo. I will pay a billion obsidian pieces to the person who brings me his head.'

write board A thief named Yarsimal who has green eyes, one leg, and a dragon tattoo

Does this scenario better provide an example of why sdesc sniffing with the Way could be an issue?

[X-D]

I am in full agreement of Synths Idea, as I have suggested it in the past.

It pretty much solves the point of this thread and several others.

I think the best way to defeat sdesc sniffing is to allow generic maxed barrier to defeat generic maxed contact 100% of the time, and making it rather difficult for even maxed generic contact to defeat the noobiest successful barrier, then allowing mindbenders supra-maximal contact skill that can defeat generic maxed barrier.  (Of course, this would lead to some other problems with some other things that probably shouldn't be spoken about, but those things could also be modified to take into account the new contact vs. barrier situation.)

This way, if you have a barrier up and you're an experienced PC, your sdesc can't ever be sniffed by anyone other than a mindbender (which would be an appropriate ability for a mindbender anyway).

[Nyr]

So for that scenario to work out, Desertman, I have to buy the following:

there's a thief that is simultaneously that skilled and that dumb ICly
there's a noble that is simultaneously that dumb ICly and that twinkish

I grant that this very extreme scenario is a possibility, but in that very extreme scenario, staff would actually be talking to the noble's player.  It really seems like a reach to get to abuse here.

[Desertman]

I am in full agreement of Synths Idea, as I have suggested it in the past.

It pretty much solves the point of this thread and several others.

I think the best way to defeat sdesc sniffing is to allow generic maxed barrier to defeat generic maxed contact 100% of the time, and making it rather difficult for even maxed generic contact to defeat the noobiest successful barrier, then allowing mindbenders supra-maximal contact skill that can defeat generic maxed barrier.  (Of course, this would lead to some other problems with some other things that probably shouldn't be spoken about, but those things could also be modified to take into account the new contact vs. barrier situation.)

This way, if you have a barrier up and you're an experienced PC, your sdesc can't ever be sniffed by anyone other than a mindbender (which would be an appropriate ability for a mindbender anyway).

This is fine if you want to have your barrier up 100% of the time. That is a solution, but in my opinion, not the best solution.

[Elisar]

If you contact a player using the name as the keyword:
You contact a foreign presence with the Way.

Once they respond, you see the sdesc as usual.

If you contact an NPC using a name as they keyword, it shows the sdesc as normal.

If you contact a player using other keywords, you see the sdesc as normal but they also see "<your sdesc> has contacted you." You've either seen them around at this point, or heard a little of their description, or you are possibly using random, common sdesc keywords. If you're using random keywords, you aren't really learning who you are contacting so it doesn't matter. It could even be an npc for all you know.

So if for some reason you don't really want to talk to someone you have to do business with and are just seeing if they are around, you can still back out as long as you contacted them by name instead of sdesc.

If you only have a persons name, you also can't learn the person's sdesc unless they respond to you. You do know you are in contact with a player of that name though, because otherwise it'd show an npc's sdesc or not have connected.

I think this resolves the real issue- finding sdesc on people from just having a name (or keyword nick name). It still leaves privacy to people that just want to ping and not be locked into a conversation as long as they use the proper name to contact. And as an added bonus, you get to see who it is when someone's using random keywords or your sdesc to contact you.

Goals- maximize privacy and usability, and also minimize hassle, harassment, and abuse.

[Kalai]

Is there enough of a coded distinction between your name and your hair color?