Entertaining the Minions

[Intrepid]

Wow.

All this talk of leadership roles has actually made me consider, in the distant future, trying out a leadership role.  One of the key elements that I would need to learn, however, is how to keep my minions entertained and occupied--so I pose these questions to you:

Leaders, past and present: What have you done in the past to keep your minions busy and to make plot in general?  I hasten to add that knowing what not to do can be just as informative, if you have any stories in that regard.

Minions, past and present: What have your leaders done in the past to keep you busy and to make plot in general?  Same as above, what worked as well as what didn't and why.

Staff: Either of the above from your point of view would be great too.

[RogueGunslinger]

I don't care what other people think about guild sniffing and shit like that. Figure out what their skills are, and cater to them so they can skill up. Don't make your lowly Ranger train kick for hours on end, it's really annoying. If they can't ride for shit, set them aside some time with a mount to do just that... Don't make all your seasoned riders tag along.

[valeria]

Leadership:  Delegate.  No really, there's probably too much for you to do all on your own in a leadership role anyway.  Once you find a trusted minion, give them as many of your tasks as you think they can handle... and then let them handle them.

Beyond that, discover what their interests are and point them in that direction with any ideas you can come up with.  Minions are happiest when they're doing what they do best.

[Armaddict]

I don't care what other people think about guild sniffing and shit like that. Figure out what their skills are, and cater to them so they can skill up. Don't make your lowly Ranger train kick for hours on end, it's really annoying. If they can't ride for shit, set them aside some time with a mount to do just that... Don't make all your seasoned riders tag along.

Pretty much.  People said they hate guild sniffing, but I kind of...consider it necessary in circumstances such as this.  Give them jobs they're able to do.  If you find out you hired someone with a 'hidden' skillset that they didn't want you to find with guild-sniffing, adjust so that you have goals that you can mention, and then lament about how you don't have the means.  Loyal minions will have reason to secretly use their skillset to help out.  They may be able to take credit later.

You're asking about what is, really, the most frustrating part of playing leadership roles for me.  You don't want to step out of character, or out of guidelines, but you have to actively come up with things that will keep people busy and entertained.

First and foremost...be sure to explain to people openly, up front, what they can expect to be doing for their job.  Don't do the 'advertising' that a lot of people do where you say they will constantly be excited with these amazing things that happen once a RL year.  It may make recruiting harder, but you'll generally have a lower turnover rate and people who can tolerate slow periods to last longer.

First and foremost?  Take some risks.  They result in enemies and allies and things to do to cover up your mistakes or increase your prestige.  Not HUGE risks, but sometimes they must be done.

[Bacon]

Be online. Be online. Be online. Be active. Be Active. Be Active. Clans sometimes live or die on whether or not the leader pcs (or players in general) are around much. As a general rule though, I think the more active the leaders are, the more active other players in the clan will be.

Give your minions tasks that they can work on whether or not you are online.

Be involved with them as much as you can when you are online, coming up with different things to do than same old same old.

Try to make sure they are trying to seek each other out as much as possible when online rather than logging in and pursuing solo things. The same goes for you as the leader.

Don't be afraid to punish/reward your minions as opportunities come up. Make their actions mean something, one way or another.

Try to create some interaction between your clan and other clans in the game, this will increase the chances of bringing more characters together and get them involved in some bigger things.

Remember that some players prefer to do some more social things, tavern sitting, purely emoted games, etc. Some players prefer action and more coded things. Some want some times spent toward both. Be sure to mix it up so that things involve a bit of both here and there.

Plan small rpts and get togethers as often as you can. These can be objective based activities, hunts, trips to other places, exploration, etc. They can also be social gatherings, celebrations, games, ceremonies, etc. Like I said above, different players will prefer different parts of it more. Do some of both.

If you have minions that perform guard duties where they need to stay near you get them to do small things for you, fetch drinks, food, or run an errand once in a while. Do not, just leave them standing there like npcs or send them away on their own until you're ready to move again every time. Either one gets old fast quickly.


I know I'm missing a bunch of things that just aren't coming to mind at the moment but that's what I've got for now.

[EldritchOrigins]

Look for leadership potential among your minions (or possible recruits) and empower them to help take up the slack.  It helps if their play time isn't exactly the same as yours, but overlaps a lot.  Allowing them to be around when you're offline, and for you to be around when they are offline, but also you are around each other enough to coordinate/plan/plot/etc.  The more people that are around to help share the responsibilities that come with leadership roles, the more fun things can be for everyone.  You won't be doing everything, you'll have access to other ideas for things to do, and there will be someone else around to help give the other minions opportunities to roleplay actually being minions.


Always be thinking of goals.  Be they tiny, small, large, epic, etc.  The goals may not all be pertaining to your group, they can be personal.  Try to use your minions, or anyone else that's around you to help you achieve these.  If avoidable, don't ever push your minions to do things that aren't fun, rather offer incentives.

Recruit as much as you can, but don't recruit anyone that you don't have a use for.  Many guilds have caps on recruitment (for good reason), so don't just recruit anyone, but recruit the best people that you can.  Always be on the lookout for possible new recruits.  Even independents can be useful, even if you don't recruit them.  You don't have to recruit someone for them to be useful and contribute to your goal, and for them to work for you (independent contractors).

Someone has already said this, but it's very useful to have regular "business hours"  These are times that you are always online, taking care of business.  Others inside the clan and outside will come to know when you're available to take reports, orders, take care of whatever business they have.

Don't spend all your time being a leader.  Set aside some private time.  While you should always try to make sure that your minions are engaged if there are at least 2 or more of them online at the same time, you should also make sure that you aren't completely overcome being the leader all the time.  Set up some limits for yourself to help insulate yourself from the IC job.  This will help you not to burn out.

[Edited to add:] Be aware of the players of your minions and their time. We all have varying log in times. try to be flexible while also making the most of your minion's time they have to spend logged in.  Time is your most valuable resource, and your minions, try not to waste it.

[Delirium]

Everyone else has some good advice, but honestly, I think mine is crucial to actually enjoying the role:

Be a character. Don't fall into the trap of becoming a vending machine (whether of objects, coins, or plots). If your character has goals, dreams, fears, and desires, plots will naturally spawn out of those, beyond what you come up with to further the more overarching goals and/or larger issues that come up for you and your minions.

You can 'lead' and generate plots without being a leader, by simply being active, interesting, and engaging other characters.

[Lukoyin]

Yep, some great points in here already! I'd add 2 more, especially for nOOb leaders.

1: Try and avoid the powertrip because of your position. Being overbearing right out of the gate will cause your minions or those who may be considering being your minions away from you, because they've invested time and energy in their character and would sooner not loose them based on some knee-jerk PK "Because you can."

2: Don't be afraid to talk -to- your minions, not -at- them. Chances are, when you get your leader position, some of your minions have been in the clan for awhile and may already have several things in the works, and any of them would likely have personal goals/dreams. Talk to them, find out what they are, then see how/if their goals and yours might work together, rather then just machine-gunning your ideas at them and say "Get to it."

[X-D]

I am going to add to this.

1: Try and avoid the powertrip because of your position. Being overbearing right out of the gate will cause your minions or those who may be considering being your minions away from you, because they've invested time and energy in their character and would sooner not loose them based on some knee-jerk PK "Because you can. OR cause then to PK You! Odds are, if you are entering a sponsered leadership role, there can and likely will be some very long lived PCs about with plenty of coded ability and savvy along with a network...Not even templars are immune to a FRAG THIS FOOL."

[Lizzie]

Here's one don't - I agree with all of the do's:

You log in one day, during a time when you're hardly ever logged in, just because your kid as home sick with the flu so you had to take the day off. And your character meets some guy who's looking for a job, so you hire him.

And then, you promptly disappear, never to return to logging in during that time again, until maybe three months later when pinkeye comes to your kid's school.

It's not that you never log in, you log in for 2 hours every day, and four hours a day on weekends! It's not that you're not active, you're VERY active. But - you hired someone who didn't know that they'd be stuck without a leader, because THEY log in at a totally different time you log in.

If you know that meeting a potential new-hire is going to be a chance meeting and you have no intention of logging in at least a couple times a week during the same time you meet him, please don't hire him. It's unfair to him to expect a boss to show up once in awhile, and it's unfair to you to think you've got a shiny new employee who will love being in your clan.

This doesn't apply to Sergeants in the Byn, because everyone knows that the Sergeant from this week, will have different login times than the Sergeant from next week. The likelihood that the newhire will interact with *a* sergeant at least once a week, is pretty high

[Cutthroat]

I agree a lot with what's been said so far, and I'll just add my own piece.

Don't feel so obligated to entertain your minions that you fail to entertain yourself. Sometimes when a minion asks if there is anything needing doing, it's okay to say that there isn't. Often, waiting until you have something in mind is a far better and safer option than attempting to make something up on the spot. Just don't take too long coming up with something.

Give interesting "quests". WoW-style quests have their place, but "Bring me five bulbous sacs and your reputation with me will increase by 100" over and over again isn't terribly fun. Give them access to the plots you have planned as a leader (you do have plots planned, right?) depending on how much your PC trusts them with such things. If possible, show them how their contribution was helpful and they will be far more likely to take initiative when things come up, meaning you won't have to direct them as much.

If possible, slowly pull new hires into the fun, so they can stick around to see themselves grow into the role they are in - but if you trust too slowly, you also risk boring the players.

Delegation is super-important. Find an employee your leader can trust with things and it becomes that much easier to entertain the rest.

Herd them together and make sure they're sticking together.

Do things with them besides work. If it's acceptable for your character, pull them aside to talk about strategies, other employees, training, or whatever else. Encourage them to spend their time off doing activities that help them get a chance to develop their own character, besides their skill-set.

Some sponsored roles tend to be loaded with money. Make up for that gap in what clanned people earn vs. what indies earn by sharing the wealth with the minions that do good work. Knowing they're appreciated for something goes a long way toward keeping up the good work.

[Taven]

I wanted to just add also, that you don't have to be a called-for leader to lead. You can be a normal PC who just wants to involve people. If you take initiative in your clan, and talk to your big boss leader about ideas to entertain your peers (and underlings, if you have rank), then you can do a lot too. For example, if you're a Corporal or Sergeant in a military clan, try thinking of some more exciting training exercises, or see if when those recruits get promoted, you can toss a celebration party. Leaders really make themselves.

[Zoltan]

I wanted to just add also, that you don't have to be a called-for leader to lead. You can be a normal PC who just wants to involve people. If you take initiative in your clan, and talk to your big boss leader about ideas to entertain your peers (and underlings, if you have rank), then you can do a lot too. For example, if you're a Corporal or Sergeant in a military clan, try thinking of some more exciting training exercises, or see if when those recruits get promoted, you can toss a celebration party. Leaders really make themselves.

But beware being cut down in your prime by a jealous superior! It's why you have to arrange an "accident" first. Then you've really made yourself leader!

But yeah. What everyone else said. My emphasis goes on selfishly playing your character first and foremost. If you're interested and involved and active, it tends to draw people in. Of course, I guess that's valid advice for any rung of the authority ladder.

I think that maybe one of the most challenging parts about being a good leader is balancing secrecy with access. Too much secrecy and players may lose interest. But too much access may be wildly inappropriate due to your role, or common sense.

I started typing some more but then I realized I was sounding like a dusty old curmudgeon, so I guess that's it.

[Feco]

The only thing I'd like to add is just because you don't like a leader PC, or they are an unsuccessful leader PC ingame, does NOT mean the player is unsuccessful at playing a leader.

We have to have some losers, tyrants, etc. in game.  As long as the player is doing what they can to play their character true to themselves, and involving other players, than I think they're doing fine.

[My 2 sids]

Everyone else has some good advice, but honestly, I think mine is crucial to actually enjoying the role:

Be a character. Don't fall into the trap of becoming a vending machine (whether of objects, coins, or plots). If your character has goals, dreams, fears, and desires, plots will naturally spawn out of those, beyond what you come up with to further the more overarching goals and/or larger issues that come up for you and your minions.

You can 'lead' and generate plots without being a leader, by simply being active, interesting, and engaging other characters.

Yes.  This.  +1

In my view, the role of leader is to help bring the doc's to life.  You're showing your minions where they fit in game.   So, when you (as a leadership role) have a real personality for your PC -- it sets the mood for the entire clan!  As long as you bring a consistent PC -- your minions can find ways to role-play.   

That is, don't think you have to play "Lord High-and-mighty!  The most cunning/skilled/knowedged/etc"  Some nobles simply don't have such drive.  The main thing is you're playing a PC whom the minions can play off of with their own play.  Players are looking for interaction and to have reactions.

[Reiloth]

Entertaining minions reminds me of being in a band. If you are having a great time, so will your audience (unless you are not paying any attention to them, then you are probably the self-focused douchebag type).

-Delegate. Encourage minor-leadership beneath you. Institute corporal ranks if there are none in your clan. Play your character to a T. Enrich the game world around you, and watch as your minions leap at the opportunity to play with you and enhance the story your Leader has summoned into existence. Be a part of the moment.

-Signal Flow. When you are not having fun with the role, try to recognize the foundation of that problem. Trace it back to the beginning, and be honest with yourself and with your staff. If you can't play the role anymore, store. If it's because of A, B, X, Y, and Z -- Let your Staff know. They can help you figure out these problems that may seem overwhelming, or not worth their time, conversely.

-Make your own plots. Do not rely on Staff to create them for you. Use your imagination, and try to involve as many people as possible in your plots (or as few people as possible, if you are assassinating people). Don't be afraid of asking Staff for advice in situations that may be detrimental to your character. Put your Ass On The Line.

-Take Risks. Just because you are a Leader does not mean you should be sitting in the relative safety of your Argosy. You have the capability to shake the world up. Sure, you can app a safe, namby-pamby do-good sycophant who just wants to get promoted. But at the end of the day, it is your duty as a Leader PC to start another Copper War. Now. This very instant. Your minions will be pleased.

-If you are having trouble with a minion, do not take it OOC. Treat it as an IC problem, and do not bear the Player on the other side of the character ill will.

[janeshephard]

My last role before my most recent, was not a sponsored role but managed in dishing out quests. Some players latched on, some didn't.

It's all in the attitude

[Intrepid]

Cool.  This has been helpful so far, everyone.  Thank you!

[Fredd]

Invent work:

Need some meat to practice cooking?
Maybee those runners should learn to salt
ever need to talk to someone that you always seem to miss? Use Minion A!

[number13]

Maybee those runners should learn to salt

No.

[lussien]

What kind of quests are appropriate for new players and veterans playing new characters?
How would you work around your boundaries?
How would you keep your minions safe enough so that they can last another ring of the dangers of the wilderness?

I've always failed to entertain as I'm always the one being entertained. 

[Saellyn]

I'm sure "mudsex" falls under entertaining minions...

[My 2 sids]

I'm sure "mudsex" falls under entertaining minions...

Mudsex falls under every category    


Anyhow, even if your PC does it "casually" find out what your minions need to get stuff done.  Just giving a task isn't leading -- challenging and then preparing is leading. 

[boog]

I'm sure "mudsex" falls under entertaining minions...

Mudsex falls under every category    


Anyhow, even if your PC does it "casually" find out what your minions need to get stuff done.  Just giving a task isn't leading -- challenging and then preparing is leading. 

My fave. LEMME TELL YA.
...Ahaha.

[Jeshin]

I've always found that enabling your minions the chance to rise up against you in some kind of revolution keeps everyone entertained. FREEEEEDOM.

[Calavera]

Though this probably isn't something you personally have a problem with, Intrepid, I'm putting this out there:

Remember that you are not just a Leader and your minion is not just a Minion.

Develop actual relationships with the PCs that work for you, be it favourable or unfavourable.

It's easy to keep your crew entertained when they look forward to interacting with you because of your character and not just because of what quests you dish out.

I've found that in clanned play, it's easy to fall into a routine. Especially in a clan with a schedule, or in a clan where most of your business consists of doing the same tasks over and over again. This leads to seeing other PCs in your clan as representatives of their assigned role, when in reality they could be a lot more than that if you gave them a chance and they did likewise for you.

[Dakota]

Remember that you are not just a Leader and your minion is not just a Minion.

This.

Frankly I find once I start playing the leadership role I'm in for PLOT and not for FUN and for the other enjoyment of the others in the clan, the role/game becomes a nightmare. This is more extreme perhaps for me as I'm off-peak and it is not a joy to stay up till 5am a few nights of the week so I can make sure we all go here and do this because that person is on, etc..

The good news is, once other PCs in the clan have shown they are not going to get killed in a few weeks and get a feel for their character, the clan, the setting, THEY get to do all the cool leadership stuff when the leader is away.

I prefer a flatline system of management rather than a tier (with one person who would have the final say, for better or for worse). More things to do and little missions are available for more ppl that way.

[Rhyden]

Remember that you are not just a Leader and your minion is not just a Minion.

I find the best characters in Arm are the ones with flaws; this absolutely includes leaders too. To me, flawless characters are just so boring, and they add little flavour to the game as a whole. This goes double for leaders. Some of the most incredible, awe-inspiring plots I've seen in game have not been because of a leader's successes, but because of their flaws, and failures. If you don't get what I mean, look at Tony Soprano, from "The Sopranos". A great leader, but with great flaws. Had he not had any flaws, the best show ever made for tv wouldn't have made it past season 1.

[Twilight]

Continue what you have been doing.  Evolve slowly.

Of course, I've never had a sponsored leadership role, so these are really for non-sponsored.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

When I play a leader, I make massive plans, then break them down into sub-plans. I then pick the foundation sub-plan, and assign minions to complete aspects of it. When one sub-plan is completed, I move to the next, and so on. It's rarely uber-exciting, but it always gives your players a goal, no matter how small or big.

[Akaramu]

Some thoughts:

What I personally enjoy the most is regular interaction with the leadery PC. They tend to be interesting, well-played characters. What I don't enjoy is leader logging on, giving me a bunch of mostly meaningless tasks, leader logging off. I don't need to be kept busy, I can keep myself entertained with personal projects I will probably enjoy more than buying a flask of performe for that noble.

Less meaningless tasks, more interaction! Really, I'd rather roleplay brushing lady Silkytressed's hair for 30 mins than spend that time running to the bazaar for her. Meaningful tasks that are tied into plots, though... hooray! I don't need them happening ALL the time, just where it makes sense is ok.

A noble I never forgot from yeeeeears ago: Lord Hardestadt Oash. He was awesome because he would gather underlings and talk about really interesting, fairly large-impact stuff that made everyone go ooooh and aaaah, even the newer clannies that had not yet been tested for five years. Absolutely zero tasks just for the sake of keeping people 'busy'.

[Titania]

I hate how leadership PCs tend to rely on their NPCs. They have PC minions of the same rank but take the NPCs to the secret meetings because NPCs are 100% loyal.

[RogueGunslinger]

Are you talking about bodyguards?

[Titania]

Sort of yeah, or soldiers. If you have a PC soldier/guard for your organization.

[boog]

Sort of yeah, or soldiers. If you have a PC soldier/guard for your organization.

I would take them all!

But you also have to sorta recognize that people don't always play at the same times, etc, etc, etc. There could be a hundred reasons for not bringing a PC guard as opposed to an NPC, other than the loyalty thing.

[WWYD]

I hate how leadership PCs tend to rely on their NPCs. They have PC minions of the same rank but take the NPCs to the secret meetings because NPCs are 100% loyal.

I played in a clan three or four years ago where all the available PCs of two organzations got to do guard shtick a super-sekrit meeting.

It was perhaps the most boring RPT I've ever been a part of. I haven't taken anyone to a meeting where they weren't guaranteed some form of interaction since.

[Talia]

I hate how leadership PCs tend to rely on their NPCs. They have PC minions of the same rank but take the NPCs to the secret meetings because NPCs are 100% loyal.

Generally, we discourage leader PCs from making minion PCs do "guard duty" which entails them standing next to the table where the sekret meeting is happening, without the listen skill. That is a ticket to pure boredom. WWYD's example precisely illustrates. This is also why the vast majority of clans don't hire PCs to be bodyguards; by definition, bodyguard is one of the most potentially boring roles in the game.

[Kastion]

Dont need the listen skill... hope that isnt too sekrit

edit: Last time I was on personal guard duty was to a house family member, i literally stood next to his table and I heard cool sekrit stuff and it was fun. I didnt have the listen skill.

[jstorrie]

I hate how leadership PCs tend to rely on their NPCs. They have PC minions of the same rank but take the NPCs to the secret meetings because NPCs are 100% loyal.

Generally, we discourage leader PCs from making minion PCs do "guard duty" which entails them standing next to the table where the sekret meeting is happening, without the listen skill.

The last time I was playing a leaderguy, I'd grab one of my more promising underlings and bring him to the meeting and tell him to keep his mouth shut - then, post-meeting, quiz him to see if he was smart or not. (And to get a second opinion on stuff/things/etc.)

[hyzhenhok]

I hate how leadership PCs tend to rely on their NPCs. They have PC minions of the same rank but take the NPCs to the secret meetings because NPCs are 100% loyal.

Generally, we discourage leader PCs from making minion PCs do "guard duty" which entails them standing next to the table where the sekret meeting is happening, without the listen skill. That is a ticket to pure boredom. WWYD's example precisely illustrates. This is also why the vast majority of clans don't hire PCs to be bodyguards; by definition, bodyguard is one of the most potentially boring roles in the game.

Don't you automatically overhear whats being said at a table if you're following someone seated there?

I don't think I would have developed such an interest in the game if in my first long-lasting role the Lady Tor hadn't taken me along to those sekrit meetings with magickers.

[Lacustre]

I hate how leadership PCs tend to rely on their NPCs. They have PC minions of the same rank but take the NPCs to the secret meetings because NPCs are 100% loyal.

Generally, we discourage leader PCs from making minion PCs do "guard duty" which entails them standing next to the table where the sekret meeting is happening, without the listen skill. That is a ticket to pure boredom. WWYD's example precisely illustrates. This is also why the vast majority of clans don't hire PCs to be bodyguards; by definition, bodyguard is one of the most potentially boring roles in the game.

Don't you automatically overhear whats being said at a table if you're following someone seated there?

I don't think I would have developed such an interest in the game if in my first long-lasting role the Lady Tor hadn't taken me along to those sekrit meetings with magickers.

Listen was enhanced a few years ago exactly for this reason - to give bodyguards without the skill a chance to overhear things if they were standing by their charge's table.  Before that change, it was impossible to overhear things without the skill, and bodyguard duty was much more silent and boring.  For my part, I don't discourage PC guard duty.

[Synthesis]

Fuck guard duty, seriously.  Y'all nobles aren't half as interesting and/or witty as you think you are.

[Titania]

Well I like to go to the meetings. I like to know things and have the option to pull a betrayal or leak information and so on.

[Dar]

If you think standing guard duty is boring during a private sikrit meeting. Try to stay hidden in that room, eavesdropping on that meeting. Now 'that' is boring.

[Down Under]

If you think standing guard duty is boring during a private sikrit meeting. Try to stay hidden in that room, eavesdropping on that meeting. Now 'that' is boring.

Truth.

[Armaddict]

If you think standing guard duty is boring during a private sikrit meeting. Try to stay hidden in that room, eavesdropping on that meeting. Now 'that' is boring.

You do realize that often, those 'sekrit' meetings are just as mundane and redundant as having you stand in there listening to the mundane redundancy, right?  Half of the political plotting in this game, if not more, is people thinking they have ideas that aren't, or people coyly engaging in inane socializing in efforts to build allies.

Sorry, but when I play a leader?  I'd feel -wretched- for bringing a PC to those, even if they told me they'd just idle through it.  Go spend some time on your own.

RAT from the above:  Schedules enhance people's ability to meet up with each other in a clan, and train endlessly, but I -really- hate how it detracts from minions plotting against each other and finding other creative ways of helping out their clan.  Vigorous enforcement of the schedule is dumb.

[Down Under]

If you think standing guard duty is boring during a private sikrit meeting. Try to stay hidden in that room, eavesdropping on that meeting. Now 'that' is boring.

You do realize that often, those 'sekrit' meetings are just as mundane and redundant as having you stand in there listening to the mundane redundancy, right?  Half of the political plotting in this game, if not more, is people thinking they have ideas that aren't, or people coyly engaging in inane socializing in efforts to build allies.

Sorry, but when I play a leader?  I'd feel -wretched- for bringing a PC to those, even if they told me they'd just idle through it.  Go spend some time on your own.

RAT from the above:  Schedules enhance people's ability to meet up with each other in a clan, and train endlessly, but I -really- hate how it detracts from minions plotting against each other and finding other creative ways of helping out their clan.  Vigorous enforcement of the schedule is dumb.

It really works in the Byn.

[FantasyWriter]

Someone says, OOC: Can you guy unlock the door and let me out? You are boring as fuck, so I'm gonna log.

[Armaddict]

Someone says, OOC: Can you guy unlock the door and let me out? You are boring as fuck, so I'm gonna log.

I've had to do this, in different words, of course.

[Delirium]

You do realize that often, those 'sekrit' meetings are just as mundane and redundant as having you stand in there listening to the mundane redundancy, right?  Half of the political plotting in this game, if not more, is people thinking they have ideas that aren't, or people coyly engaging in inane socializing in efforts to build allies.

God, yes. Not to cut on people's attempts to plot, but... god. Yes.

What's worse is when they try to drag you into their inane "politics". Thanks for involving me in your plot, guys, but look me up when you've left high school.

I know this makes me sound like a bitch. Sorry, but it's the way I feel. Maybe I'm just ruined from having played a heavily political PC for a couple years.

[Cutthroat]

The last few posts seem to reveal a surprising (to me) amount of dislike for some of the kinds of political things that PCs involved in politics can actually offer to their "minions".

When playing a minion, how would you want to be involved in politics, ideally - if at all?

[Is Friday]

I'm gonna be an asshole and echo Delirium's sentiments. The more childish, the worse it is. The more in line with some cultural/documented prejudice/hate/plotting, the more likely it is to be interesting.

[Delirium]

Yeah, he said it better than I could, I think. I don't mean to down attempts to start plots and create interesting dynamics.

I'm not sure how to describe it except as the difference between Deadwood and Jersey Shore.

[AmandaGreathouse]

The last few posts seem to reveal a surprising (to me) amount of dislike for some of the kinds of political things that PCs involved in politics can actually offer to their "minions".

When playing a minion, how would you want to be involved in politics, ideally - if at all?

With the same sort of delicacy people put into the ic/ooc consent barrier in ftb vs rp'd sex scense. I'd like it to be offered and volunary, if I can't get out of it, I'm likely to resent it, like someone goaded into things vs offered them in the first place. And being offered them more or less based on the frequency with which the pc jumps at the idea of that type of involvement.

[valeria]

I generally have a good time getting dragged off to guard something as a minion, as long as it isn't guarding the hall doorway.  It is a lot less boring to me than sitting in an empty bar.

[Cutthroat]

I think it's pretty fair to want political conflict that makes sense, although I think one player's perception and justification of the conflict can be vastly different from another, depending on what they've seen in-game.

I think there is a lot of information in the documentation that supports a great deal of pettiness mixed in with more bitter rivalries and even secret wars between two Houses/clans. Things that minions arguably can get involved in pretty easily.

[Bacon]

Just because a conflict is petty or senseless doesn't mean it isn't realistic or a worthwhile conflict. A lot of conflict can be traced to a petty or senseless origin, even if the "public knowledge" of it is that it's something much bigger and more important.
It's kinda of like people that complain: My death was senseless or over something silly, that was bad roleplay. In real life a lot of death is senseless. A lot of people are killed for "unworthy" reasons. I believe it's realistic for it to be more this way on Zalanthas. Nobles were raised in a life of luxury and don't know what real hardship is. It's likely they appear a bit childish from the perspective of a person from modern society or even to some of their minions.


More on the topic of the thread: I think the most important thing about entertaining minions is simply being there and being engaging in some way. Being a person with a job more than being "the job".

[Delirium]

I wasn't referring to nobles, but, y'know what, I can't go into specifics. It's just a trend I've seen, over the years, among sections of the playerbase.

I'm fully willing to admit it may be a matter of taste. Just like some people like romantic RP, and some people prefer blood and guts.

[My 2 sids]

The last few posts seem to reveal a surprising (to me) amount of dislike for some of the kinds of political things that PCs involved in politics can actually offer to their "minions".
When playing a minion, how would you want to be involved in politics, ideally - if at all?

In RL I've been lucky enough to have a supervisor who manages with the idea that she wants us to be able to climb within the company.  Thus, she tries hard to build our name and image; encourages us to take on our own projects; and helps us gain perspective -- her view, the company view, as well as to keep defining our roles.

I think works well in game too.  Yes, Zan has a lot of backstabbing, but there is also a lot of loyalty (that is how clans work), so don't play like you have to keep your minion down.  Making their way up in the house -- that's an actual goal, not busy work.  "Guards, the house would notice if you come up with a new way to train."  "Bard, the house would notice if you could find a song to boost moral"  "Cook, Higher-up Lady Borsail likes roses... come up with such a dish and you may catch her gaze"  "Crafter, you hang out at the Gaj... who has potential?"   "Trooper, I've heard <fictitious unit> will probably choose a Sargent who is strong in <skill>,  hint hint"


As a leader you have access to House docs and even Staff ears others do not -- use that, share that as a way to draw PC and player into the clan.

[Armaddict]

The last few posts seem to reveal a surprising (to me) amount of dislike for some of the kinds of political things that PCs involved in politics can actually offer to their "minions".
When playing a minion, how would you want to be involved in politics, ideally - if at all?

In RL I've been lucky enough to have a supervisor who manages with the idea that she wants us to be able to climb within the company.  Thus, she tries hard to build our name and image; encourages us to take on our own projects; and helps us gain perspective -- her view, the company view, as well as to keep defining our roles.

I think works well in game too.  Yes, Zan has a lot of backstabbing, but there is also a lot of loyalty (that is how clans work), so don't play like you have to keep your minion down.  Making their way up in the house -- that's an actual goal, not busy work.  "Guards, the house would notice if you come up with a new way to train."  "Bard, the house would notice if you could find a song to boost moral"  "Cook, Higher-up Lady Borsail likes roses... come up with such a dish and you may catch her gaze"  "Crafter, you hang out at the Gaj... who has potential?"   "Trooper, I've heard <fictitious unit> will probably choose a Sargent who is strong in <skill>,  hint hint"


As a leader you have access to House docs and even Staff ears others do not -- use that, share that as a way to draw PC and player into the clan.

Best post yet.  My earlier comment about the schedule was alluding to this...that the hardset schedule, while making sense for some very few clans, actually stifles the involvement of the PC with things outside of training.  My favorite minions (played and lorded over) were the ones who came up with awesome ways to serve in ways that other nobles did not have at their disposal.  Something -they- did, which was rarely having anything to do with being the most badass at something in the City.

When I tell people that being an aide is about forming your own political game with stricter rules than your noble where you act for their benefit, they seem to think I'm insane.  Vague yes.  Insane no.  Coming up with those things comes through the clan rp.  *shrug*

[Talia]

I fear that my comment about using PCs for guard duty may have been misinterpreted to mean something I didn't mean. I certainly didn't mean that political plotting is futile or that any particular nobles/templars are bad at it (either currently or in the past) *.

But: From my personal experience, any time I was ever called to do "guard duty" meant being present at a meeting where stuff may or may have not been revealed, which thereafter didn't turn into anything actionable for me. I think it's great when leaders let their minions know about game or clan or plot sekrets, be that by overhearing or insinuating or straight-up confession; but when the next thing out of the leader's mouth is, "But I'm gonna have the Byn / my pet magicker / a Guild assassin / someone else that isn't you help me with that," then I get officially bummed out. (That's not to say that those people who aren't me shouldn't also get some of the action, because they should. I am all for the love being spread around. But if I am your #1 loyal minion and right-hand dudette, and especially if I've sworn a life-oath to your organization and/or can't leave the city, I'd really like to get some preferential bones thrown when it comes to plot action.)

Minions want to be doing stuff, stuff that is important to the plot, stuff that is risky, stuff that epitomizes Murder, Corruption, and Betrayal. That's what I always wanted, as a minion, and that is what I see other minions wanting, from my now-perspective as a staff member.

* Actually, I think both north and south there are some extremely capable plotters and action-makers right now. In many cases, they simply need more minions to use.

[RogueGunslinger]

If you want to entertain your minions, let them kill shit.

[boog]

Being a non-com can be fun, too.

Wouldn't you much rather fuck with someone/thing than outright kill them?

Save for like. A pack of spawned giths on your ass?

[Case]

Being a non-com can be fun, too.

Wouldn't you much rather fuck with someone/thing than outright kill them?

Save for like. A pack of spawned giths on your ass?

[RogueGunslinger]

Being a non-com can be fun, too.

Wouldn't you much rather fuck with someone/thing than outright kill them?

Save for like. A pack of spawned giths on your ass?

"Screwing" with things in the game that aren't other PC's is... silly. With PC's, it generally quickly devolves into the need to kill the person before they kill you.

Unless you mean.. like.. sneaking into their apartment and arranging all their stuff in ways to look like it's all been urinated on, or something. That's always awesome.

[Down Under]

Being a non-com can be fun, too.

Wouldn't you much rather fuck with someone/thing than outright kill them?

Save for like. A pack of spawned giths on your ass?

"Screwing" with things in the game that aren't other PC's is... silly. With PC's, it generally quickly devolves into the need to kill the person before they kill you.

Unless you mean.. like.. sneaking into their apartment and arranging all their stuff in ways to look like it's all been urinated on, or something. That's always awesome.

This is a circular belief though, one that I too am a part of. Having a nemesis can be much cooler than just outright killing the person, sometimes, but it depends on who you're playing with. I've been surprised over and over again when I hesitate how, without hesitation, the other person I am hunting/playing with drops my ass with a couple poisoned arrows.

[Incognito]

Your best bet to keep your minions entertained, while in a leadership role:

Right off the bat - while recruiting your minions - give them your IC welcome speech, then the OOC welcome speech to the clan, then:

OOC: Hi, I just wanted to let you know that I am going to be trying my best to keep your PC involved in clan activities - however, please understand that I too am a player like you, and cannot possibly keep plots going in-game AND try and keep all the PCs in the clan busy all the time. Thanks for your understanding.


BOOM

[Down Under]

Your best bet to keep your minions entertained, while in a leadership role:

Right off the bat - while recruiting your minions - give them your IC welcome speech, then the OOC welcome speech to the clan, then:

OOC: Hi, I just wanted to let you know that I am going to be trying my best to keep your PC involved in clan activities - however, please understand that I too am a player like you, and cannot possibly keep plots going in-game AND try and keep all the PCs in the clan busy all the time. Thanks for your understanding.


BOOM

I think the important thing to realize, when you play Leadership roles, is you cannot please everyone. Minions that require that kind of welcome speech are probably going to be bored / pissed you aren't around, even if you are playing 6 hours a day. It will never be enough for them, and they will move on to another clan to be bored with.

Leaders just need to lead by example, throw some awesome virtual hangouts/kill sessions (RPT's), and generally 'be around'.

[Titania]

I think having clear alternatives to a rigid schedule can help.  Sometimes it can seem you are forced to choose between boredom and breaking the rules when you don't really want to go off but it's pretty boring in low population. Sometimes gets to the point you don't blame or want to enforce the rules as tightly as higher ups who are free to fuck around want for fear of running off your one precious new face.

Explain that for now skip this and do this until whatever condition is met,  not just stick to the schedule at all costs.  

[FantasyWriter]

But if I am your #1 loyal minion and right-hand dudette, and especially if I've sworn a life-oath to your organization and/or can't leave the city, I'd really like to get some preferential bones thrown when it comes to plot action.)

Minions want to be doing stuff, stuff that is important to the plot, stuff that is risky, stuff that epitomizes Murder, Corruption, and Betrayal. That's what I always wanted, as a minion, and that is what I see other minions wanting, from my now-perspective as a staff member.

But leaders want to keep out number ones safe, too, so there has to be a tradeoff. 

[My 2 sids]

But if I am your #1 loyal minion and right-hand dudette, and especially if I've sworn a life-oath to your organization and/or can't leave the city, I'd really like to get some preferential bones thrown when it comes to plot action.)

Minions want to be doing stuff, stuff that is important to the plot, stuff that is risky, stuff that epitomizes Murder, Corruption, and Betrayal. That's what I always wanted, as a minion, and that is what I see other minions wanting, from my now-perspective as a staff member.

But leaders want to keep out number ones safe, too, so there has to be a tradeoff. 

Yes and no. 

With few exceptions every PC in game (including agents, nobles, and blue robes) are ranked low in terms of the Clan.  So in affect, everyone is on the same team -- trying to get noticed (or not bring too much shame to the clan). 

So while some "out for numeral uno" is to be expected,  no one affiliated with a clan is an island unto themselves (regardless of the new "player-driven" plot-lines).  Not being able to play nicely with others ends in the House loosing money or social ranking... not a good thing for the Higher-ranking Family members/ leaders to notice.

Part of the player draw of being in a clan -- teams!  And it doesn't have to be hokey or challenge one's immersion of in the game (lords and guards being BFFs)...  Not to power-game, but use those NPCs and VNPCs to your advantage! 

[John]

I think it doesn't hurt to give someone an OOC speech in a private room. Something along the lines of: I'm involved in a lot of plots at the moment, however they include subterfuge and are largely confined to the city. I'm willing to involve you in them (as time passes and it becomes ICly appropriate) but you'll need skills that can be utilised in these plots. Whether it's coded skills or organisational skills to act as a go-between with other PCs. My playtimes are BLAH BLAH BLAH. Do you still want to join?

Does it reveal IC information on an OOC level? Yes, but it tells the person what they could become involved within in the foreseeable future. I might need minions that can sneak and break into people's apartments and carry out quiet assassinations. If the person before me is a warrior or merchant, they're not going to be able to cater to those skills. I can always give them boring old guard duty, but that aint fun for anyone. On the other hand, even if the person before me is a warrior, I give them the opportunity to still be involved, if they can act as a go-between between me as a leader and those who have the skills I require.

Before signing your life away, it would be good on an OOC level to know if you're going to actually enjoy the position you're being hired into.

[FantasyWriter]

But if I am your #1 loyal minion and right-hand dudette, and especially if I've sworn a life-oath to your organization and/or can't leave the city, I'd really like to get some preferential bones thrown when it comes to plot action.)

Minions want to be doing stuff, stuff that is important to the plot, stuff that is risky, stuff that epitomizes Murder, Corruption, and Betrayal. That's what I always wanted, as a minion, and that is what I see other minions wanting, from my now-perspective as a staff member.

But leaders want to keep out number ones safe, too, so there has to be a tradeoff. 

Yes and no. 

With few exceptions every PC in game (including agents, nobles, and blue robes) are ranked low in terms of the Clan.  So in affect, everyone is on the same team -- trying to get noticed (or not bring too much shame to the clan). 

So while some "out for numeral uno" is to be expected,  no one affiliated with a clan is an island unto themselves (regardless of the new "player-driven" plot-lines).  Not being able to play nicely with others ends in the House loosing money or social ranking... not a good thing for the Higher-ranking Family members/ leaders to notice.

Part of the player draw of being in a clan -- teams!  And it doesn't have to be hokey or challenge one's immersion of in the game (lords and guards being BFFs)...  Not to power-game, but use those NPCs and VNPCs to your advantage! 

I mean, many time the reson that 1.minion doesn't get assigned something is because it is too dangerous, and boss doesn't want to risk them.
It's like in the early American farming days... slaves did the mundane stuff, but you got immigrant workers to do the dangerous/nasty/undesirable stuff, because your slaves were investments.  Immigrant workers were a dime a dozen (or less).

[Tuannon]

Depends what kind of slaves you're talking about.

I suppose my knowledge is probably well stale by now, but in my experience there were slaves you would throw at something just a readily as the Byn or a random temporary hire. And some you wouldn't.

That's after talking about aide slaves versus warrior slaves.

[RogueGunslinger]

Let your minions be as unique as possible. Don't try to regulate all of them to doing one type of coded thing. Let them do their own things, pertaining to the specific skills they have.

Nothing is worse than training shield-use for your entire career when you don't have the skill. Or having your guild-burglar training rescue drills.

The onus is also on the player to let your leaders know what your specific abilities are, so they can offer you more fun opportunities to skill up.

[Hot_Dancer]

The best played (and longest lasting) leadership PC's I've been around didn't spend any particularly large amount of time looking
after the needs of their underlings - they chased their own personal/faction plots/goals and played their character.

If you were in - you came along for the ride.

[Aruven]

Your best bet to keep your minions entertained, while in a leadership role:

Right off the bat - while recruiting your minions - give them your IC welcome speech, then the OOC welcome speech to the clan, then:

OOC: Hi, I just wanted to let you know that I am going to be trying my best to keep your PC involved in clan activities - however, please understand that I too am a player like you, and cannot possibly keep plots going in-game AND try and keep all the PCs in the clan busy all the time. Thanks for your understanding.


BOOM

I think the important thing to realize, when you play Leadership roles, is you cannot please everyone. Minions that require that kind of welcome speech are probably going to be bored / pissed you aren't around, even if you are playing 6 hours a day. It will never be enough for them, and they will move on to another clan to be bored with.

Leaders just need to lead by example, throw some awesome virtual hangouts/kill sessions (RPT's), and generally 'be around'.

Um... This is not always true. The Byn? Yes. Most always the 'leader' of that group is someone who is paid to take his company out to PK and murder shit.
A southern or northern noble? You don't need to say this. People you decide to hire and get involved with, should know, it is up to them to involve themselves in RP. It is up for you as a leader to A.) Provide the OPPORTUNITY for something to develop for them and B.) To find a smooth way to make your position unique, and keep them wanting to be loyal to you, but enjoying it. And, if you care, C.) Is keeping them protected on the side.

But mainly, I think a leader actually does sacrifice a lot. Your job is to build the incentive and opportunity to progress roleplay and storylines you may not even have your own hand in. That's why your a leader. The staff have seen you demonstrate your ability to enrich the world and provide excitement for the people around you. This does not mean you are always sucking and let your minion roam free. But your PC minions should know that you are there for their benefit, and you are choosing to include them in something potentially rad they will not find elsewhere, but that day to day, the game has not changed and they still must drive their own incentives. <----- Someone smack me if I have this perception wrong.

[Down Under]

I don't think that perception is necessarily wrong, but I think it will lead to burn out quickly. Treating yourself like a vending machine will lead to burn out, and setting the precedent to your minions that you have a question mark over your head sets the bar high. When you don't have quests for them to do, they'll complain and generally make you feel guilty for not entertaining them. I think finding a happy balance between Plot Bestower and Real Ass PC with Desires and Vices will lead to Happy Times.

I would agree that there is a vast difference between Byn Sergeant and GMH Agent and Northern / Southern Noble and Templar. The biggest difference is Byn Sergeants are expected to move plots / contracts forward with very little Staff assistance on a day to day basis. They are Atlas, and one hopes they do not shrug.

The majority of GMH plots are without Staff assistance, on a day to day basis, though they have to juggle master crafts and general orders, as well as minions who handle most of the general ordering, and their plots/drama.

The majority of Noble plots, in my experience, involve Staff. Whether you are trying to build a new Arena, or build a Statue, or Destroy Enemy X, you have to involve both a lot of PC's and Staff. You have to find the artisans, or pay the Virtual Ones. You have to get House Nenyuk or Kassigarh on board as the financiers. You have to get House Tenneshi on board to supply water for the workers. The more Houses you get involved, the tricker it gets, but the more realistic it is, and you'll usually get a better response from Staff. In this sense, yes, Nobility is a Sponsored Role that requires IMO the most patience and dedication. Most of your plots are not self-reliant, and rely instead on your rapport with Staff, willingness to compromise, and patience above all.

Templars I think are closest to Byn Sergeant, oddly enough. When they do need Staff assistance, they will ask for it in reports or wishes, but otherwise, they have the power to do as they please on a day to day basis, and are expected to keep the ball rolling themselves for the most part.

[Fredd]

GMH's have alot of staff interaction actualy. And the staff are pretty awesome, IMHO.

But Most of the plots a Noble can do, so can a Leader of a GMH, if they know what to do, and have some backup in the political rings.

Some things take more work though, like the Statue or Arena. But can be done. I'm 100% on this.

One of the best little pieces of advice I can give is to take a time out. I'm not saying leave the game for a long time. But take a time out of work, in game. If you are a leader, you can do it. It helps to get away with all the hundreds of minor things that pop up day to rl day.

And GMH leaders feel this pressure more, what with order,s master crafts, and minions. So take a break In game!

Or a day off rl, that helps too.

[Kismetic]

Cultivate your minions.  They are your source of strength.

Be fruitful, and shape the world.

Play the game.

Do not die.

[Morrolan]

Just coming off a discussion of noblesse oblige on Facebook:

In dealing with a medieval-ish world, upper-class people, who really are better than the common folks, will not generally think of them as competitors unless they continually assert themselves as such. Those who assert equality will be ruthlessly put down, not as personal competitors, but as threats to social stability and the status quo.

Because of access to literacy, middle and upper class characters are more likely to take long-term approaches to problems. For them, historical, political, and family continuity are the bedrock from which they spring. These long-term factors should guide their actions. They know history, and know that things that are happening now have happened before. A merchant competing with GMH Sal'Kadirac is nothing new, and the House can afford to wait three years in a plot to take the independent down or co-opt their efforts.

At the individual level, this may mean that many employees are used, rather than "brought on board" with the plan. Plots should be multifaceted, with short- and long-term goals. Employees should be trained and tested over the course of years, not months. Yes, this is a challenge when the average character lasts about two weeks RL. That is, in some ways, one of the greatest challenges of leadership.

To that end, one of the greatest pieces of advice I have heard is "develop your support staff." Make sure that your aides are loyal, but know their place as well. Make them proud, and when you find that they are associating with the truly wrong people, well...

This desire to train and test your employees is a source for plots. Yes, to some extent, you are sifting for gold. Delegate enough authority, and then find out how they use it. Give them problems that can be solved, and let them run with them. Give them deadlines:

"Within a month, we need to have the trade route secure and the gith beaten back. Here is some starter-money. If you need more, find it. If you need to take losses, make certain that they come from the soldiers who have been here less than a year."

"I need a gith-skin coat as a gift for my old frenemy, Al'Bundi of House Tennesail. He will be required to wear it at the inter-House party, or be accused of insulting us."

Loyalty, more than coded power, becomes a key component for the long-term leader. Loyalty is rewarded, not just cash-for-kills. If you want cash-for-kills, hire the Byn. They understand that kind of thing.