Entertaining the Minions

[Cutthroat]

The last few posts seem to reveal a surprising (to me) amount of dislike for some of the kinds of political things that PCs involved in politics can actually offer to their "minions".

When playing a minion, how would you want to be involved in politics, ideally - if at all?

[Is Friday]

I'm gonna be an asshole and echo Delirium's sentiments. The more childish, the worse it is. The more in line with some cultural/documented prejudice/hate/plotting, the more likely it is to be interesting.

[Delirium]

Yeah, he said it better than I could, I think. I don't mean to down attempts to start plots and create interesting dynamics.

I'm not sure how to describe it except as the difference between Deadwood and Jersey Shore.

[AmandaGreathouse]

The last few posts seem to reveal a surprising (to me) amount of dislike for some of the kinds of political things that PCs involved in politics can actually offer to their "minions".

When playing a minion, how would you want to be involved in politics, ideally - if at all?

With the same sort of delicacy people put into the ic/ooc consent barrier in ftb vs rp'd sex scense. I'd like it to be offered and volunary, if I can't get out of it, I'm likely to resent it, like someone goaded into things vs offered them in the first place. And being offered them more or less based on the frequency with which the pc jumps at the idea of that type of involvement.

[valeria]

I generally have a good time getting dragged off to guard something as a minion, as long as it isn't guarding the hall doorway.  It is a lot less boring to me than sitting in an empty bar.

[Cutthroat]

I think it's pretty fair to want political conflict that makes sense, although I think one player's perception and justification of the conflict can be vastly different from another, depending on what they've seen in-game.

I think there is a lot of information in the documentation that supports a great deal of pettiness mixed in with more bitter rivalries and even secret wars between two Houses/clans. Things that minions arguably can get involved in pretty easily.

[Bacon]

Just because a conflict is petty or senseless doesn't mean it isn't realistic or a worthwhile conflict. A lot of conflict can be traced to a petty or senseless origin, even if the "public knowledge" of it is that it's something much bigger and more important.
It's kinda of like people that complain: My death was senseless or over something silly, that was bad roleplay. In real life a lot of death is senseless. A lot of people are killed for "unworthy" reasons. I believe it's realistic for it to be more this way on Zalanthas. Nobles were raised in a life of luxury and don't know what real hardship is. It's likely they appear a bit childish from the perspective of a person from modern society or even to some of their minions.


More on the topic of the thread: I think the most important thing about entertaining minions is simply being there and being engaging in some way. Being a person with a job more than being "the job".

[Delirium]

I wasn't referring to nobles, but, y'know what, I can't go into specifics. It's just a trend I've seen, over the years, among sections of the playerbase.

I'm fully willing to admit it may be a matter of taste. Just like some people like romantic RP, and some people prefer blood and guts.

[My 2 sids]

The last few posts seem to reveal a surprising (to me) amount of dislike for some of the kinds of political things that PCs involved in politics can actually offer to their "minions".
When playing a minion, how would you want to be involved in politics, ideally - if at all?

In RL I've been lucky enough to have a supervisor who manages with the idea that she wants us to be able to climb within the company.  Thus, she tries hard to build our name and image; encourages us to take on our own projects; and helps us gain perspective -- her view, the company view, as well as to keep defining our roles.

I think works well in game too.  Yes, Zan has a lot of backstabbing, but there is also a lot of loyalty (that is how clans work), so don't play like you have to keep your minion down.  Making their way up in the house -- that's an actual goal, not busy work.  "Guards, the house would notice if you come up with a new way to train."  "Bard, the house would notice if you could find a song to boost moral"  "Cook, Higher-up Lady Borsail likes roses... come up with such a dish and you may catch her gaze"  "Crafter, you hang out at the Gaj... who has potential?"   "Trooper, I've heard <fictitious unit> will probably choose a Sargent who is strong in <skill>,  hint hint"


As a leader you have access to House docs and even Staff ears others do not -- use that, share that as a way to draw PC and player into the clan.

[Armaddict]

The last few posts seem to reveal a surprising (to me) amount of dislike for some of the kinds of political things that PCs involved in politics can actually offer to their "minions".
When playing a minion, how would you want to be involved in politics, ideally - if at all?

In RL I've been lucky enough to have a supervisor who manages with the idea that she wants us to be able to climb within the company.  Thus, she tries hard to build our name and image; encourages us to take on our own projects; and helps us gain perspective -- her view, the company view, as well as to keep defining our roles.

I think works well in game too.  Yes, Zan has a lot of backstabbing, but there is also a lot of loyalty (that is how clans work), so don't play like you have to keep your minion down.  Making their way up in the house -- that's an actual goal, not busy work.  "Guards, the house would notice if you come up with a new way to train."  "Bard, the house would notice if you could find a song to boost moral"  "Cook, Higher-up Lady Borsail likes roses... come up with such a dish and you may catch her gaze"  "Crafter, you hang out at the Gaj... who has potential?"   "Trooper, I've heard <fictitious unit> will probably choose a Sargent who is strong in <skill>,  hint hint"


As a leader you have access to House docs and even Staff ears others do not -- use that, share that as a way to draw PC and player into the clan.

Best post yet.  My earlier comment about the schedule was alluding to this...that the hardset schedule, while making sense for some very few clans, actually stifles the involvement of the PC with things outside of training.  My favorite minions (played and lorded over) were the ones who came up with awesome ways to serve in ways that other nobles did not have at their disposal.  Something -they- did, which was rarely having anything to do with being the most badass at something in the City.

When I tell people that being an aide is about forming your own political game with stricter rules than your noble where you act for their benefit, they seem to think I'm insane.  Vague yes.  Insane no.  Coming up with those things comes through the clan rp.  *shrug*

[Talia]

I fear that my comment about using PCs for guard duty may have been misinterpreted to mean something I didn't mean. I certainly didn't mean that political plotting is futile or that any particular nobles/templars are bad at it (either currently or in the past) *.

But: From my personal experience, any time I was ever called to do "guard duty" meant being present at a meeting where stuff may or may have not been revealed, which thereafter didn't turn into anything actionable for me. I think it's great when leaders let their minions know about game or clan or plot sekrets, be that by overhearing or insinuating or straight-up confession; but when the next thing out of the leader's mouth is, "But I'm gonna have the Byn / my pet magicker / a Guild assassin / someone else that isn't you help me with that," then I get officially bummed out. (That's not to say that those people who aren't me shouldn't also get some of the action, because they should. I am all for the love being spread around. But if I am your #1 loyal minion and right-hand dudette, and especially if I've sworn a life-oath to your organization and/or can't leave the city, I'd really like to get some preferential bones thrown when it comes to plot action.)

Minions want to be doing stuff, stuff that is important to the plot, stuff that is risky, stuff that epitomizes Murder, Corruption, and Betrayal. That's what I always wanted, as a minion, and that is what I see other minions wanting, from my now-perspective as a staff member.

* Actually, I think both north and south there are some extremely capable plotters and action-makers right now. In many cases, they simply need more minions to use.

[RogueGunslinger]

If you want to entertain your minions, let them kill shit.

[boog]

Being a non-com can be fun, too.

Wouldn't you much rather fuck with someone/thing than outright kill them?

Save for like. A pack of spawned giths on your ass?

[Case]

Being a non-com can be fun, too.

Wouldn't you much rather fuck with someone/thing than outright kill them?

Save for like. A pack of spawned giths on your ass?

[RogueGunslinger]

Being a non-com can be fun, too.

Wouldn't you much rather fuck with someone/thing than outright kill them?

Save for like. A pack of spawned giths on your ass?

"Screwing" with things in the game that aren't other PC's is... silly. With PC's, it generally quickly devolves into the need to kill the person before they kill you.

Unless you mean.. like.. sneaking into their apartment and arranging all their stuff in ways to look like it's all been urinated on, or something. That's always awesome.

[Down Under]

Being a non-com can be fun, too.

Wouldn't you much rather fuck with someone/thing than outright kill them?

Save for like. A pack of spawned giths on your ass?

"Screwing" with things in the game that aren't other PC's is... silly. With PC's, it generally quickly devolves into the need to kill the person before they kill you.

Unless you mean.. like.. sneaking into their apartment and arranging all their stuff in ways to look like it's all been urinated on, or something. That's always awesome.

This is a circular belief though, one that I too am a part of. Having a nemesis can be much cooler than just outright killing the person, sometimes, but it depends on who you're playing with. I've been surprised over and over again when I hesitate how, without hesitation, the other person I am hunting/playing with drops my ass with a couple poisoned arrows.

[Incognito]

Your best bet to keep your minions entertained, while in a leadership role:

Right off the bat - while recruiting your minions - give them your IC welcome speech, then the OOC welcome speech to the clan, then:

OOC: Hi, I just wanted to let you know that I am going to be trying my best to keep your PC involved in clan activities - however, please understand that I too am a player like you, and cannot possibly keep plots going in-game AND try and keep all the PCs in the clan busy all the time. Thanks for your understanding.


BOOM

[Down Under]

Your best bet to keep your minions entertained, while in a leadership role:

Right off the bat - while recruiting your minions - give them your IC welcome speech, then the OOC welcome speech to the clan, then:

OOC: Hi, I just wanted to let you know that I am going to be trying my best to keep your PC involved in clan activities - however, please understand that I too am a player like you, and cannot possibly keep plots going in-game AND try and keep all the PCs in the clan busy all the time. Thanks for your understanding.


BOOM

I think the important thing to realize, when you play Leadership roles, is you cannot please everyone. Minions that require that kind of welcome speech are probably going to be bored / pissed you aren't around, even if you are playing 6 hours a day. It will never be enough for them, and they will move on to another clan to be bored with.

Leaders just need to lead by example, throw some awesome virtual hangouts/kill sessions (RPT's), and generally 'be around'.

[Titania]

I think having clear alternatives to a rigid schedule can help.  Sometimes it can seem you are forced to choose between boredom and breaking the rules when you don't really want to go off but it's pretty boring in low population. Sometimes gets to the point you don't blame or want to enforce the rules as tightly as higher ups who are free to fuck around want for fear of running off your one precious new face.

Explain that for now skip this and do this until whatever condition is met,  not just stick to the schedule at all costs.  

[FantasyWriter]

But if I am your #1 loyal minion and right-hand dudette, and especially if I've sworn a life-oath to your organization and/or can't leave the city, I'd really like to get some preferential bones thrown when it comes to plot action.)

Minions want to be doing stuff, stuff that is important to the plot, stuff that is risky, stuff that epitomizes Murder, Corruption, and Betrayal. That's what I always wanted, as a minion, and that is what I see other minions wanting, from my now-perspective as a staff member.

But leaders want to keep out number ones safe, too, so there has to be a tradeoff. 

[My 2 sids]

But if I am your #1 loyal minion and right-hand dudette, and especially if I've sworn a life-oath to your organization and/or can't leave the city, I'd really like to get some preferential bones thrown when it comes to plot action.)

Minions want to be doing stuff, stuff that is important to the plot, stuff that is risky, stuff that epitomizes Murder, Corruption, and Betrayal. That's what I always wanted, as a minion, and that is what I see other minions wanting, from my now-perspective as a staff member.

But leaders want to keep out number ones safe, too, so there has to be a tradeoff. 

Yes and no. 

With few exceptions every PC in game (including agents, nobles, and blue robes) are ranked low in terms of the Clan.  So in affect, everyone is on the same team -- trying to get noticed (or not bring too much shame to the clan). 

So while some "out for numeral uno" is to be expected,  no one affiliated with a clan is an island unto themselves (regardless of the new "player-driven" plot-lines).  Not being able to play nicely with others ends in the House loosing money or social ranking... not a good thing for the Higher-ranking Family members/ leaders to notice.

Part of the player draw of being in a clan -- teams!  And it doesn't have to be hokey or challenge one's immersion of in the game (lords and guards being BFFs)...  Not to power-game, but use those NPCs and VNPCs to your advantage! 

[John]

I think it doesn't hurt to give someone an OOC speech in a private room. Something along the lines of: I'm involved in a lot of plots at the moment, however they include subterfuge and are largely confined to the city. I'm willing to involve you in them (as time passes and it becomes ICly appropriate) but you'll need skills that can be utilised in these plots. Whether it's coded skills or organisational skills to act as a go-between with other PCs. My playtimes are BLAH BLAH BLAH. Do you still want to join?

Does it reveal IC information on an OOC level? Yes, but it tells the person what they could become involved within in the foreseeable future. I might need minions that can sneak and break into people's apartments and carry out quiet assassinations. If the person before me is a warrior or merchant, they're not going to be able to cater to those skills. I can always give them boring old guard duty, but that aint fun for anyone. On the other hand, even if the person before me is a warrior, I give them the opportunity to still be involved, if they can act as a go-between between me as a leader and those who have the skills I require.

Before signing your life away, it would be good on an OOC level to know if you're going to actually enjoy the position you're being hired into.

[FantasyWriter]

But if I am your #1 loyal minion and right-hand dudette, and especially if I've sworn a life-oath to your organization and/or can't leave the city, I'd really like to get some preferential bones thrown when it comes to plot action.)

Minions want to be doing stuff, stuff that is important to the plot, stuff that is risky, stuff that epitomizes Murder, Corruption, and Betrayal. That's what I always wanted, as a minion, and that is what I see other minions wanting, from my now-perspective as a staff member.

But leaders want to keep out number ones safe, too, so there has to be a tradeoff. 

Yes and no. 

With few exceptions every PC in game (including agents, nobles, and blue robes) are ranked low in terms of the Clan.  So in affect, everyone is on the same team -- trying to get noticed (or not bring too much shame to the clan). 

So while some "out for numeral uno" is to be expected,  no one affiliated with a clan is an island unto themselves (regardless of the new "player-driven" plot-lines).  Not being able to play nicely with others ends in the House loosing money or social ranking... not a good thing for the Higher-ranking Family members/ leaders to notice.

Part of the player draw of being in a clan -- teams!  And it doesn't have to be hokey or challenge one's immersion of in the game (lords and guards being BFFs)...  Not to power-game, but use those NPCs and VNPCs to your advantage! 

I mean, many time the reson that 1.minion doesn't get assigned something is because it is too dangerous, and boss doesn't want to risk them.
It's like in the early American farming days... slaves did the mundane stuff, but you got immigrant workers to do the dangerous/nasty/undesirable stuff, because your slaves were investments.  Immigrant workers were a dime a dozen (or less).

[Tuannon]

Depends what kind of slaves you're talking about.

I suppose my knowledge is probably well stale by now, but in my experience there were slaves you would throw at something just a readily as the Byn or a random temporary hire. And some you wouldn't.

That's after talking about aide slaves versus warrior slaves.

[RogueGunslinger]

Let your minions be as unique as possible. Don't try to regulate all of them to doing one type of coded thing. Let them do their own things, pertaining to the specific skills they have.

Nothing is worse than training shield-use for your entire career when you don't have the skill. Or having your guild-burglar training rescue drills.

The onus is also on the player to let your leaders know what your specific abilities are, so they can offer you more fun opportunities to skill up.