Realistic RP regarding languages and accents

[Iiyola]

Hmm? I'm pretty sure that nowadays, I mostly think in English, even though French is my native language, which is why I tend to realize that I think in English.

I think, dream, mutter and curse in English. Yet, I still have the damn ugly Dutch accent!

[Rhyden]

People need to stop just tacking on a random comment to the end of threads that have been dead for a month that cover points either already addressed.

Well I for one really liked Case's post and would like to hear how she would implement a better language system, even if never implemented.

[Kismetic]

I'm amused that you choose this, of all threads, to launch a "People need to stop tacking on a random comment ... "  You know, seeing as it's disjointed pretty much all throughout.  Ironic, for a language thread.

People need to stop just tacking on a random comment to the end of threads that have been dead for a month that cover points either already addressed.

Hey, I like where you're going with this.  More language humor!


I can and would argue that there really is a way to make the learning of languages different in the game without codifying an entire language.

Well I for one really liked Case's post and would like to hear how she would implement a better language system, even if never implemented.

Agreed.

[Jenred]

Well yeah, I would like to hear too...
The problem is that it never seems to get that far! 

[Malken]

Well yeah, I would like to hear too...
The problem is that it never seems to get that far! 

Case is a pretty damn good mud coder, so if there's someone who could come up with a way to code what she's speaking of, that'd probably be her.

[Maso]

Something that might be a slight improvement to the current 'scrambling' functionality of the language code...

Less scrambling on shorter words. More scrambling on longer words. Means if you don't speak a language very well, you (and people speaking to you) can dumb it down to monosyllabic and have a higher chance of being able to communicate. Slightly more realistic in it's potential application...I think? Currently you either do understand or you don't...and if you know a little bit of a language you can't dumb it down to make what you do know comprehendible...

[Kismetic]

To be honest, I can generally decipher scrambled phrases in context and length of word alone.  I realize this is bad form, but I can't resist the brain teaser.  I'd like to hear something outside of the scramblings suggested, as per Case's post.

[Case]

Case,

I just want to point out that last week, I was in Zagreb, Croatia. Czechs like to think we understand 80% of their language.. But that wasn't the case.

I understood about 20% if that (mainly curse words and prepositions).

In fact as I was in a bar (Domus, which if you're in Zagreb ever.. GO TO), drinking copious amounts of wine and laughing with old friends, I thought of arm when I couldn't understand much of anything (meaning we spoke mainly in english).. But when they spoke in their native tongue, I'd catch an inkling of a word or a full word, followed by a scrambled mess that sounded.. Well.. Not much like anything save for the rare sound of familiarity.

The point is, I'm not sure how learning languages work.. But I can assure you that once you step out of the latin-based languages, all bets are off in terms of coherence with what you should and shouldn't understand... And this was a half-slav speaking a slavic tongue in a slavic country.. But we had to resort to english b/c we couldn't understand each other

Shared words, cognates and language relationships create that kind of thing where you can hear some words. But it's Europe, even in close areas with related languages, there's huge divergence. Sometimes it's the opposite - Romanian and Italian are mutually understable, albeit moreso for the Romanians. It has nothing to do with romance languages... and  English is a germanic language, not romance

[Case]

Well yeah, I would like to hear too...
The problem is that it never seems to get that far! 

Case is a pretty damn good mud coder, so if there's someone who could come up with a way to code what she's speaking of, that'd probably be her.

I already have, I helped another coder develop a fast processed language system using encryption that mimics a few models of language learning and obfuscation. If Arm would like to use it, something could be arranged.

[Case]

I think it's interesting that you say that, too, because I generally don't think in words, unless I'm consciously doing so.

Ayup. It's a rare person that's wired this way, but it does happen.

I've heard people argue that it doesn't, that all thinking is necessarily in a language.

But the people arguing that were wrong. As a trained meditation instructor, I can say that with 100% certainty.

And finally, to comment on this.

I am just the same. I don't think in words. There's something of a complex relationship between concepts, words and understanding. I do believe that thinking in concepts has a subset of concepts bound to words with some abstract wriggle room. While you may not think in words, the words you do use and the language you use are linguistically bound to the same methods of thinking and communication as somebody who does, any abstraction of that further by your mind is on you and your weird ass head .

[musashi]

Yup. Brain is wired for language. Deal.

[Kismetic]

I am just the same. I don't think in words. There's something of a complex relationship between concepts, words and understanding. I do believe that thinking in concepts has a subset of concepts bound to words with some abstract wriggle room. While you may not think in words, the words you do use and the language you use are linguistically bound to the same methods of thinking and communication as somebody who does, any abstraction of that further by your mind is on you and your weird ass head .

I usually think in images, with an undertone of music (often bad music, right now it's "You the fuckin' best, you the fuckin' best, you're the best I ever haaad"), but when I read slowly I will think of those words I am looking at.  Again, when I become absorbed in reading, the words disappear and imagery takes over.  I have a photographic memory, though not perfect by any standards, as it is worn through age and drug abuse.  As I said, I only think in words when consciously doing so, mainly while reading and writing, or thinking of a careful answer in a social situation.

Yup. Brain is wired for language. Deal.

Methinks musashi only thinks in platitudes.  

[Kismetic]

Case is a pretty damn good mud coder, so if there's someone who could come up with a way to code what she's speaking of, that'd probably be her.

I already have, I helped another coder develop a fast processed language system using encryption that mimics a few models of language learning and obfuscation. If Arm would like to use it, something could be arranged.

That's not telling us details about how it works. 

[Case]

*thinking in pictures*

I'm similar. It's not especially rare though.

[ShaLeah]

My mother was brought to Puerto Rico at the age of 29 not knowing a SINGLE word of Spanish. Nada. She learned it in less than a year by ....

Watching Soap Operas. Not even kidding.

English and Spanish are very far apart. If my mother could learn it, fluently, by watching a couple of hours of TV a day, anyone can.

[Patuk]

People don't always think in words. This is a fact.

People do always think in language. This statement does not contradict the one above.

[Kismetic]

People don't always think in words. This is a fact.

People do always think in language. This statement does not contradict the one above.

At least somebody gets it. 

[Case]

Edit: missed the always.

Yes. That's correct.

[Harmless]

I like Case's suggestion of adding an inverse relationship with age* to the speed of learning languages. I can't say this for sure but I imagine that wisdom being high helps; as it is now, with wisdom going up with age, that means young'ns actually have a penalty to learn languages which should be negated with a boost for age.

[musashi]

People don't always think in words. This is a fact.

People do always think in language. This statement does not contradict the one above.

At least somebody gets it. 

Exactly.

[Jenred]

I like Case's suggestion of adding an inverse relationship with age* to the speed of learning languages. I can't say this for sure but I imagine that wisdom being high helps; as it is now, with wisdom going up with age, that means young'ns actually have a penalty to learn languages which should be negated with a boost for age.

Yes there is some credibility to "young people learn languages faster" - like  babies that can learn 10 languages before they are 8.
However, in terms of playability, Im against age-based-skill anything, untill there is a way to inversely apply it.
Like... if I don't want to create a teen character, but don't want to miss out on the wisdom+ perks of being a youth character capable of learning.
My character /would've/ been young at one point, but there would be no way to account for that codedly without it seeming like just giving perks out.

[hyzhenhok]

I like Case's suggestion of adding an inverse relationship with age* to the speed of learning languages. I can't say this for sure but I imagine that wisdom being high helps; as it is now, with wisdom going up with age, that means young'ns actually have a penalty to learn languages which should be negated with a boost for age.

Yes there is some credibility to "young people learn languages faster" - like  babies that can learn 10 languages before they are 8.
However, in terms of playability, Im against age-based-skill anything, untill there is a way to inversely apply it.
Like... if I don't want to create a teen character, but don't want to miss out on the wisdom+ perks of being a youth character capable of learning.
My character /would've/ been young at one point, but there would be no way to account for that codedly without it seeming like just giving perks out.

What? Age already has a huge impact on your character. And right now it's not balanced in favor of very young PCs at all. Allowing them to pick up extra languages more easily would be the tiniest of buffs because if you really want extra language you can just take nomad/linguist and be done with it.

[Jenred]

Age only effects stats, and not that significantly unless you are talking extremely low or extremely high end. I've had middle-aged PCs with better stats then characters in their prime, and vice versa. I don't consider the variegated nature of the stat and stat rolling code to, as you say, having "a huge impact" on your PC that is "not at all balanced" towards young people.

If role-played correctly it is already easy enough to pick up languages.

I'm against the idea of age-affecting skills, unless part of a grander bargain of age-related aspects.

[Marauder Moe]

If anything should modify language acquisition, it should be the number of languages you currently know.

[Delirium]

If anything should modify language acquisition, it should be the number of languages you currently know.

Especially in the case of related languages; if someone knows sirihish and bendune, they should pick up cavilish like lightning.