Trader - Subguild

[Bebop]

Hi.

I just thought I would run this idea had by pretty quickly.  Merchants are the most defenseless guilds combat wise, and also one of the my most easy to guild sniff.

I thought I would propose a Trader sub-guild that would include the skills:

Cavilish
Haggle
Value

And possibly listen or something like direction sense or a boost to ride as a trader likely would not be very sedentary   

The focus would not be a crafting sub-guild per se.  It would embody the type of PC that is actively interacting in the markets and looking to be a quick talker with a sharp eye that has probably done a wee bit of traveling.  Something like this may have been suggested before, I don't know.  I don't really peruse or follow the GDB to much these days.  But it doesn't seem very overpowered and it's a sub-guild I'd definitely be interested in personally.  It could also be beneficial to some PCs looking to join on with a Merchant House to be able to communicate in the language with their employers when discretion is necessary.  It also might deter people from instantly thinking, you just spoke Cavilish and you're not Merchant Family.  I can so gank you.

[FantasyWriter]

I like very much, and would use it quite often.

[a strange shadow]

I like the idea of a trader that isn't necessarily a crafter.

Two thumbs up.

[Barsook]

I dig this idea.

[Synthesis]

Subguild Con Artist    (Character)

Con artists are good with small sleights of hand, as well as skilled in some of the merchantly arts, such as being able to appraise items as well as make an advantageous bargain.

See Also:
    guilds, subguilds

Looks like the only thing it lacks is Cavilish, which you don't really need, anyway.  (Not sure if they get value, right off the top of my head, but it looks like they do, unless "appraise items" is a reference to analyze.)

[Archbaron]

Subguild Con Artist    (Character)

Con artists are good with small sleights of hand, as well as skilled in some of the merchantly arts, such as being able to appraise items as well as make an advantageous bargain.

See Also:
    guilds, subguilds

Looks like the only thing it lacks is Cavilish, which you don't really need, anyway.  (Not sure if they get value, right off the top of my head, but it looks like they do, unless "appraise items" is a reference to analyze.)

I think you would be right in your assumption.

And yes, this sounds like a great idea!

[Barzalene]

Why is there no like button on this thing?

[Zoltan]

Yeah, it sounds very similar to Con Artist, but I think the point would be to take Cavilish guild-sniffin' out of the picture. Maybe just re-tool Con Artist into Trader?

[Barzalene]

I think that some subguilds are similar to others. That's OK. I like that there's a different slant and a different connotation between con artist and trader, even if there is some coded overlap. I would love to see trader add, but would not like to see con artist taken away.

[Lizzie]

The point of a subguild with Cavilish, as I understand Bebops post, is that everyone knows that anyone looking for a job, who has that language out of chargen, and is not a GMH family member, is a Merchant Guild PC.

It makes it very easy to guild-sniff, AND it makes it very easy to "out yourself" in a really obvious way. Adding a sugbuild with Cavilish is one step toward preventing that, that won't be a nerf to anyone or anything, won't break anyone's immershunz, won't make merchant_guild pointless, won't make everyone and their brother all suddenly know Cavilish, and won't break the game.

[Synthesis]

Personally, I'd much rather have sleight-of-hand than Cavilish.  But I suppose it wouldn't be game-breaking if you just up and added Cavilish to the con artist subclass.

As far as guild-sniffing is concerned...you might be able to masquerade as a merchant with a ranger/trader for a little while (after you spent quite a bit of time branching the appropriate ranger skills), but other than that, there's no way to get all the newbie crafting skills a merchant starts with.  So giving the trader subclass Cavilish ain't gonna fix any guild-sniffing problem.

[a strange shadow]

For me, it'd be less about guild sniffing, and more about being able to play a bona-fide trader, who knows the trade tongue and the ins and outs of the market, and who spends their life traveling and trading, not necessarily crafting. That might include, Tek forbid, swinging a sword or knowing the ass-end of a dagger from the tip, without having to special app for cavilish.

[FantasyWriter]

Well said, Shadow.

[Barzalene]

For me, it'd be less about guild sniffing, and more about being able to play a bona-fide trader, who knows the trade tongue and the ins and outs of the market, and who spends their life traveling and trading, not necessarily crafting. That might include, Tek forbid, swinging a sword or knowing the ass-end of a dagger from the tip, without having to special app for cavilish.

Yes.

[Synthesis]

I'm not arguing with that.  The con artist subclass already basically lets you play the kind of trader you're talking about, because Cavilish is largely irrelevant.

[Sam]

I've had a few merchants over my time here and I've never used it.

I think either pilot or the ability to lead two mounts should also be included.

[a strange shadow]

Then you'll get laughed out of town when you claim to be a career trader and yet don't know cavilish. It's a minor point, but it'd be nice to see it a little more widespread rather than guild-locked. The point about the con artist subguild is a good one, and I'll be keeping it in mind for future role ideas. Thanks.

[Synthesis]

I think the size of your bank account and the l337ness of your silks says more about your ability as a trader than your ability to speak Cavilish, when  you're not part of a GMH.

[Cutthroat]

I don't know, but with the way Cavilish is described in the help files it's like guild_merchants shouldn't really get it - mainly Merchant House family members and the people they hire. I don't think knowing cavilish is a prerequisite to being a trader. That said, I could see the point for a subguild like this with the way the game works. I think it would help to make more believable traders that actually deal in the goods other people make, or make money off of the fact that certain kinds of items are rarer in certain places. Perhaps not perfect cavilish to start, but at a usable level.

[Armaddict]

Agreed with Synth.

Cavilish is for the most part irrelevant aside from a 'wow' factor that isn't really wow.

[Feco]

I don't know, but with the way Cavilish is described in the help files it's like guild_merchants shouldn't really get it - mainly Merchant House family members and the people they hire. I don't think knowing cavilish is a prerequisite to being a trader. That said, I could see the point for a subguild like this with the way the game works. I think it would help to make more believable traders that actually deal in the goods other people make, or make money off of the fact that certain kinds of items are rarer in certain places. Perhaps not perfect cavilish to start, but at a usable level.

I wouldn't mind seeing Cavilish becoming something spoken by sponsored GMH roles, which is then taught to a non-family member after joining the mercantile/advisory branches.

Stop a bit of guild sniffing, if nothin' else. 

[Dan]

I've had GMHs turn me down for work as a crafter because I didn't know Cav. Boo.

[Barzalene]

I don't know, but with the way Cavilish is described in the help files it's like guild_merchants shouldn't really get it - mainly Merchant House family members and the people they hire. I don't think knowing cavilish is a prerequisite to being a trader. That said, I could see the point for a subguild like this with the way the game works. I think it would help to make more believable traders that actually deal in the goods other people make, or make money off of the fact that certain kinds of items are rarer in certain places. Perhaps not perfect cavilish to start, but at a usable level.

I wouldn't mind seeing Cavilish becoming something spoken by sponsored GMH roles, which is then taught to a non-family member after joining the mercantile/advisory branches.

Stop a bit of guild sniffing, if nothin' else. 

Yes. I'm on this bus! Yes.

[Is Friday]

*random urge*

Spec app a merchant with cavilish removed.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

*random urge*

Spec app a merchant with cavilish removed.

Do it!
I like the idea of either removing Cavilish from Merchants at large (and making it trickle down through those with actual access to family members), or the idea of adding a subguild that adds it as an option. I like both ideas because I'm always in favor of throwing off guild-sniffers.