Emotions in psionic communication

[Nyr]

You can't contact someone by the sdesc of their cloak or duster or whatever unless they are in the same room.  This has reduced twinky contact-to-find-out-the-sdesc-of-the-guy-in-the-cloak by a significant margin.

[Case]

I never knew how against this people were. I considered words more awkward than thoughts or emotions across the Way. Audio is quite complex too. I also think in pictures IRL, probably biases me.

As for sending sdescs? I have no issue with it although I try to keep it fair. It's about as 'twinky' as me drawing a picture of somebody IG and using that. I always considered sdescs to be prominent or distinguishing features. Wanna use tricky words? Cool. I don't use those words in PC speech, but I will if I draw you or imagine you, because the words are OOC conceptualisations of your image. If sdescs overlap, even better. Room for error.

If that makes me a bad or lesser player, I accept that. This is how I interpreted the docs.

[Cutthroat]

I like using emotions in the Way, but I don't overdo it, and I don't see a lot of people do it. What I tend to do and see more is displaying states of mind. It's hard to describe, but sometimes a PC will be distracted with something else, or tired, hungry, etc. Those things will be as liable or more so to leak out than emotions, in my opinion.

I think it's interesting how the focus is on sdescs when we describe someone's appearance over the Way (or even in speech). It's strange how we forget that every PC has an mdesc too. "The tall, muscular man" is not simply a man who is tall and muscular. His name is Amos, he has brown hair, a burn scar on his arm, a six-pronged star on his hands, and so on.

So if you're trying to describe "the herculean, atramentous-haired whelp", there are two ways you can do this. You can do
psi *image of the herculean, atramentous-haired whelp* This is the guy that you must kill!
Or you can do:
psi The kid is large, with black hair. He's got a little scar under his eye from the last time we fought. He always wears a silly pink hat and silver bracers. Kill him.

In my opinion, the latter example makes much more sense. The former may be very descriptive OOC, but actually doesn't paint a complete picture IC.

[number13]

If you were told to kill "The tall, buzz-cut man", which one of these would you kill?

If someone were to circle one of those faces, especially one of the ones with a more defining characteristic, an observant person would be able to pick him out of a crowd.

But how do you convey that in a text based MUD?  If you know what a person looks like, you know their sdesc. That's token that represents not just the listed characteristics, but all the other characteristics (subtle and obvious) that would make an individual stand out as an individual.  In my mind, passing over the sdesc via the Way was a convenient short-cut. Instead of fumbling with trying to convey tedious descriptive information, it's less annoying to just pass over the token and get on with the more interesting bits.

My pet theory (and it's apparently wrong) was that images and feelings were easier to convey over the Way than words.  One of my unsophisticated characters tended to communicate more with emotions and pictures when using the Way, because I thought it would be easier for him than pushing civilized words through his head. As an aside, my other pet theory was that PCs were special compared to the rest of the population -- more adept (or at least possessing more natural talent) with the Way than the average Amos.  And because of this, they stand out more from the rest of the crowd.  If someone is talking about the tall, muscular man, they generally don't mean an vNPC.  They mean one the Important People Who Actually Matter.

Any case, if I ever get around to apping another character, I'll probably just stick to sending words via psi.  Like the rule about not using the Think command for OOC communication with present staff members, it's just another little thing that I disagree with, but ultimately doesn't matter much.

[Qzzrbl]

I like using emotions in the Way, but I don't overdo it, and I don't see a lot of people do it. What I tend to do and see more is displaying states of mind. It's hard to describe, but sometimes a PC will be distracted with something else, or tired, hungry, etc. Those things will be as liable or more so to leak out than emotions, in my opinion.

I think it's interesting how the focus is on sdescs when we describe someone's appearance over the Way (or even in speech). It's strange how we forget that every PC has an mdesc too. "The tall, muscular man" is not simply a man who is tall and muscular. His name is Amos, he has brown hair, a burn scar on his arm, a six-pronged star on his hands, and so on.

So if you're trying to describe "the herculean, atramentous-haired whelp", there are two ways you can do this. You can do
psi *image of the herculean, atramentous-haired whelp* This is the guy that you must kill!
Or you can do:
psi The kid is large, with black hair. He's got a little scar under his eye from the last time we fought. He always wears a silly pink hat and silver bracers. Kill him.

In my opinion, the latter example makes much more sense. The former may be very descriptive OOC, but actually doesn't paint a complete picture IC.

Thank you, I was in the process of writing a similar post up, but this sums it up pretty nicely.

It's so much more engaging and fun trying to find a guy based off key points in his mdesc anyhow.... Folks should focus less on "winning" (i.e.: spitting out his exact sdesc so your assassin buddy can shiv him as quickly as possible), and more on fun and immersion.

[Qzzrbl]

If you were told to kill "The tall, buzz-cut man", which one of these would you kill?

If someone were to circle one of those faces, especially one of the ones with a more defining characteristic, an observant person would be able to pick him out of a crowd.

I would agree with you if we had cameras IG.

::Edited to add::

In my mind, passing over the sdesc via the Way was a convenient short-cut. Instead of fumbling with trying to convey tedious descriptive information, it's less annoying to just pass over the token and get on with the more interesting bits.

And really.... You're missing out.

Sure, it may be a bitch and a half to describe a guy off his mdesc-- but it gives your underling/assassin buddy something to do for a while, which could potentially be pretty darn fun for all parties involved.

[number13]

Thought experiment:

The tall, muscular man contacts you via the Way.  He sends, "I'm the notorious thief and assassin, an all around bad guy -- the dreaded Amos. Can we cut a deal?"

You tell your local templar that Amos is presently in your head.

The templar asks, "What does he look like?"

Having never seen Amos in the flesh, how do you respond?

[Wolfsong]

At least according to the echoes that contact/psi seem to provide, you're being projected that character's basic image/self-image. You could, in that situation, either send the templar the sdesc or ask Amos to send you a more complete image/verbal description of himself.

[Qzzrbl]

Code Select Expand

tell templar (with a shrug of his shoulders) Dunno man.... He wants to cut us a deal, let's see what he wants....
Maybe we can lead him to a trap.


Ensuing plot and whatnot would undoubtedly be more fun than having one of the templar's cronies fly off and instagank mister Amos, IMHO.

BUT THEN AGAINST THAT'S JUST ME.

[Wolfsong]

Nobody said anything about pk, the thought experiment here revolves around description. That said, I think it's telling that the primary reason people fear sdescs being "given away" is because they think something negative will happen to their PC. If Amos was being contacted for a reward, I doubt anyone, especially the pof, would mind as much. That said again, again, if the player is fine with transmitting their own sdesc across the Way, I would probably roll with it and do so too.

[Qzzrbl]

Nobody said anything about pk.

True, but in this day and age, a PK attempt or three.... Or four, or five, or six, or seven, along with a price on your head are to be expected, especially if you're a master thief/assassin/all-around-bad-guy.

That said, I think it's telling that the primary reason people fear sdescs being "given away" is because they think something negative will happen to their PC. If Amos was being contacted for a reward, I doubt anyone, especially the pof, would mind as much.

True.... Though I wouldn't be against a system that allowed other people to set personal keywords for folks they meet.

As outlined here!

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,34854.0.html

[Booya]

I felt a bit twinky when I sent a sdesc, and it was only for something pretty trivial if I remember rightly.

On the otherhand, I can't remember most PC's mdescs - especially when they're longer than four lines.

For me, visual memory is easier than 'paragraph of text' memory. Especially when you have a long lived character, and you don't cut and paste the mdesc of every character you meet on a semi-regular basis.

So while I agree it's arguably better and more involving to use information in mdescs, it's also not always playable.

If I was describing the 'tall, muscular man', for my own personal sense  of comfort  i'd at least try and dress it up with a few extra words and things. Even if I was wincingly aware, and knew the other player was aware, it was just fluff, and I was actually more or less saying the sdesc.

It doesn't really bother me what other players choose to do.

[Marauder Moe]

Thought experiment:

The tall, muscular man contacts you via the Way.  He sends, "I'm the notorious thief and assassin, an all around bad guy -- the dreaded Amos. Can we cut a deal?"

You tell your local templar that Amos is presently in your head.

The templar asks, "What does he look like?"

Having never seen Amos in the flesh, how do you respond?

Same way you would in real life if you saw him briefly in an alley or something. A large male human. Useless? Absolutely.

However, identifying someone perfectly with 35 characters (or even one or two oddly specific words) is not something that people in the real world can do, and thus you shouldn't do it in Armageddon either.

[number13]

However, identifying someone perfectly with 35 characters (or even one or two oddly specific words) is not something that people in the real world can do, and thus you shouldn't do it in Armageddon either.

People in the real world can't use an sdesc to telepathically send another person a message.

I'm seeing the problem here, and why it might be considered twinky to pass along sdescs in their raw form.  I think that it is problem with the system more so than the practice, and leave it at that.

[Marauder Moe]

However, identifying someone perfectly with 35 characters (or even one or two oddly specific words) is not something that people in the real world can do, and thus you shouldn't do it in Armageddon either.

People in the real world can't use an sdesc to telepathically send another person a message.

That's different. Remembering an sdesc for your own use is fine. Relaying it to someone else is not.

I'm seeing the problem here, and why it might be considered twinky to pass along sdescs in their raw form.  I think that it is problem with the system more so than the practice, and leave it at that.

What?! Just because the system affords for abuse doesn't mean abuse is allowed.

[Kismetic]

But don't be surprised if you get accused of being a mindworm when you start sending fully coherent and easily recognizable pictures.

This thread has devolved into some argument about 'Don't kill me twink with my sdesc' or some jabber.  

However ...  if you do this, above.  Well, you sir, will have become the twink.  Read the docs!

Good day!


Edit:  Whoops!  Critical spelling error.

[Wolfsong]

I think you're misreading that portion of his post. He isn't advocating abuse of the system; he's insulting that system (collectively: you) and then declining politely to derail the thread about something else (the system) entirely.

[Kismetic]

I think you're misreading that portion of his post. He isn't advocating abuse of the system; he's insulting that system (collectively: you) and then declining politely to derail the thread about something else (the system) entirely.

Oh, well ...  I'm not even saying I use the Way in this fashion, but ...  I'm supporting it's use ... and really, I don't think someone's PC should be tortured, and pulled limb from limb because someone doesn't OOCly think images should be used in the Way when the documentation is explicit.

Pretty sure I read that fine.

[Wolfsong]

Not you. Other guy. I'm trying to keep up on my phone, but I can't quote/type fast fat thumbs.

[Kismetic]

Not you. Other guy. I'm trying to keep up on my phone, but I can't quote/type fast fat thumbs.

*facepalm*  I'm confused, now.  But yeah, I think I said my piece, and on-topic, for once!

[Wolfsong]

I will edit my posts when I get home to add in quotations, just for you. Moe's post before yours was what I was after.

[Marshmellow]

I find nothing wrong with sending imagery, don't get me wrong.  I am against anyone doing something twinky with that, though, and transmitting an exact sdesc is crossing the line.

[Kismetic]

I find nothing wrong with sending imagery, don't get me wrong.  I am against anyone doing something twinky with that, though, and transmitting an exact sdesc is crossing the line.

I would agree that this is leaning towards code abuse, and at the very least, shoddy RP.

[Wolfsong]

Is that (transmitting sdesc via Way) more abusive than players who write descriptions that are purposely vague and do not refer to short description characteristics at all? I personally don't see the mortal sin here: a sdesc is supposed to reflect your character's most significant physical characteristics, though often we see the opposite crop up (as an OOC attempt to preserve their PC's identity.)

Again, the problem here (as someone stated earlier) isn't that transmitting the exact sdesc is wrong... what is wrong here is that players are abusing this, so therefore then _it_ must be bad. If you can't trust all players, you must mistrust all of them.

[Talia]

Is that (transmitting sdesc via Way) more abusive than players who write descriptions that are purposely vague and do not refer to short description characteristics at all? I personally don't see the mortal sin here: a sdesc is supposed to reflect your character's most significant physical characteristics, though often we see the opposite crop up (as an OOC attempt to preserve their PC's identity.)

Again, the problem here (as someone stated earlier) isn't that transmitting the exact sdesc is wrong... what is wrong here is that players are abusing this, so therefore then _it_ must be bad. If you can't trust all players, you must mistrust all of them.

The bolded practice, above, actually IS abuse. When we catch an application where the PC's sdesc and mdesc do not match well, then it will be rejected.

And, not official staff opinion, but my opinion as one staffer: Transmitting an exact sdesc over the Way, or repeating an exact sdesc in conversation, is abusive. And in addition to being abusive, it's not necessary, because there are not enough PCs in the world for anyone to be that confused about which PC is being indicated; and a little character confusion could be a very good thing for plots.

As a player, if you (general you) attempt to get me to transmit or say an exact sdesc, I'm going to find a way to not do that.