Emotions in psionic communication

[Kismetic]

As a player, if you (general you) attempt to get me to transmit or say an exact sdesc, I'm going to find a way to not do that.

Positively brilliant!  Because like forest fires, only -you- can prevent twinks.


One last thing on the Way ...

Has anyone ever used this device to flesh out their character?  To reveal things, other than some assassination target, to others?  Powerful memories, dreams or compelling images your character is/has experienced?

I think people might be missing out on some grand RP opportunities because the consensus is that the Way is like cellular phones, somehow (my phone doesn't bluetooth into my brain, -yet-), and are limited by speech.  I daresay, it's limited to your imagination, so long as you fulfill the guidelines in the docs.  If my current PC was of the sort that I think -could- take advantage of those opportunities, I would.

I can construct, detail and live out my own dreams, and I'm nowhere near a genius, so don't tell me that such things aren't in the realm of the human brain.  Plus, duh, it says in the documentation that all creatures on Zalanthas have some form of telepathy, the non-psionics being low on the evolutionary chain, died off long ago.  The very fact that mindbenders exist should make one consider.

It's kind of a bummer, though, to find out that people are so driven to win that they can't follow the rules.  That's not fair to people who do follow the rules, and find themselves helpless.

Just my thoughts, here!   

[Marauder Moe]

The impact of psionic verbal communication on human life and society is already understated in the game.  It is my belief that a world where psionic imagery is rampant logically leads to am even more alien society.

Yes, Armageddon is a fantasy game, but we the players are human and I don't think its a good idea to deviate too far from our own experience or else the game looses reference and meaning.

[Lizzie]

The impact of psionic verbal communication on human life and society is already understated in the game.  It is my belief that a world where psionic imagery is rampant logically leads to am even more alien society.

Yes, Armageddon is a fantasy game, but we the players are human and I don't think its a good idea to deviate too far from our own experience or else the game looses reference and meaning.

So, if I was to comply with the suggestion of not deviating from my own experience:

Then I would 1) not use psionics at all, it wouldn't exist, period, end of story.
or
I would transmit thoughts *primarily* as non-verbal concepts and imagery, with verbalized thoughts being the rarer form of thought process, rather than the most common. In other words, the rule would be conceptual and image, with verbal being the exception.

Since this isn't the case with Armageddon, and since the docs state clearly that both imagery AND verbilization are acceptable, I'll continue to use both, and throw realism and compliance with my personal experience out the window, where it rightfully belongs.

[Whiran Luck]

I was planning on writing something stupefyingly awesome and insightful, but I haven't had much sleep so I'll just post what I do and if it's helpful or insightful then rock on. Others may do it different, so mileage may vary, this is just how I do it.

Emotions/states of mind:
- Vague or general, even if descriptively worded.
- They should not be able to be explicitly traced as to their source.
- Should invite questions in the receptive party exposed to them, especially if they don't match up with what the other person is expecting.
- Specific details avoided at all cost. *
- Should avoid power-emotional-projection, as in project the character's feelings onto another person so they feel it too.*
- They should not be used as a literary device or to be purposefully misleading of the character's state of mind. *
- 'Controlling' what one sends over the way should simply be a matter of not adding an emotional *tag* at all.

*Unless one wishes to be treated as a mindbender.

Good:

The dumpy young man sends you a telepathic message: *glee intrudes on the mental link* That would be -fantastic-!
The irritable old fart sends you a telepathic message: *vague irritation* What?
The flowery f-me sends you a telepathic message: *lust roils in the thoughts at a low simmer, like a well-cooked pot of stew* Yes, I would like to purchase three eggs tomorrow.
The sandy lady feels upset/The sandy lady sends you a telepathic message: Yes, I'm -fine-.

Bad:

The dumpy young man sends you a telepathic message: *you can't help but feel the glee* That would be -fantastic-!
The irritable old fart sends you a telepathic message: *vague irritation over you interrupting him* What?
The flowery f-me sends you a telepathic message: *lust roils in the thoughts at a low simmer, like a well-cooked pot of stew because she just thought of you in a too-small pair of edible cactus panties and is extremely pleased by what she imagines* Yes, I would like to purchase three eggs tomorrow.
The sandy lady feels upset./The sandy lady sends you a telepathic message: *totally happy thoughts* Yes, I'm perfectly -fine-.

Expansion on deception: When sending emotional states through one's thoughts, either through deliberate openness or 'leak-through' to cue the receiver in to your characters current (even general) state of mind, means they are not actively controlling their thoughts enough to send a blank message. This obviates the ability to actually deceive someone as to the character's mental state, such as in the sandy lady example above. A more in-depth example would be:

Good:
The total jerk insults the manly man repeatedly.
>The manly man feels a large amount of hatred for the total jerk.
>Your mood is now homicidal.
>Feeling uncontrollable amounts of rage, you think: There is nothing more I want to do right now than squeeze his neck until his eyeballs pop out like those rubber stress dolls.
>The manly man fumes and glowers, his face an unhealthy shade of magenta. A vein pops out on his forehead.
>You send the flowery f-me a telepathic message: *the thoughts rife with vile, burning hatred* Talk to you later, dumpling.

Bad:
The total jerk insults the manly man repeatedly.
>The manly man feels a large amount of hatred for the total jerk.
>Your mood is now homicidal.
>Feeling uncontrollable amounts of rage, you think: There is nothing more I want to do right now than squeeze his neck until his eyeballs pop out like those rubber stress dolls.
>The manly man fumes and glowers, his face an unhealthy shade of magenta. A vein pops out on his forehead.
>You send the flowery f-me a telepathic message: *lustful thoughts full of warmth and and affection* Talk to you later, dumpling.

Any emotional/mental state sent should be reflective of the character's whole state, if it's open enough to leak through the thoughts. Even using the head to head cell-phone analogy, when I talk to people on the phone, I can usually get a pretty good assessment of their mood unless they are -really- good at compartmentalizing or not really feeling particularly one way or the other. However, unless they specifically TELL me what has caused this mood (I can guess to my heart's content), I won't actually know why they're deliriously happy or enraged. I do not think the vast majority of characters or people are able to compartmentalize their emotions to the degree that they are able to easily hide one strong mental state behind another. Again, purposely hiding a mental state by -not sending any emotion through the link at all- is fine, since you're not offering clues to your character's emotional state.

And that's about it. I try not to do the images thing because it's too easily abused and is beginning to venture into mindbender territory, at least in my understanding/opinion of it. I think some emotions are fine, under what I wrote above, but the way really is supposed to be a more rudimentary form of telepathy, and not a way to project your characters most intricate and complex of emotions into someone else's head. But that's just the way I do it, and if someone projects elaborate thoughts and images into my head, depending on what they are, may impact whether my character suspects them of being a mindbender.

And this post ended up being way longer than I meant it to.

[Marauder Moe]

That's not what I'm saying. Obviously the game has to differ some from reality or else it'd be boring.

What I mean is that I think psionic images is too far. I'm aware that documentation currently supports it, though. I think that change was a poor world design decision.

[X-D]

Nothing here, Pretty much covered, Its alright as long as not forcing on somebody and in small doses. Least thats what I get out of the thread.

[Kismetic]

I was hoping to kick around some ideas about ways to use psionics more creatively, but I think the way threads digress so fast, here, and the way this one so quickly degraded into the classic 'who's the bigger metagamer' argument has left me entirely disinterested in further attempting such on these forums.

Back into my clan hole!

Regards,
JR

[Nyr]

No problem, feel free to inquire.  I'll toss the derail into its own thread so that this can proceed apace.

[Kismetic]

Thanks, Nyr!  You're really nice.  I'll try to think up some pertinent questions beyond what I've already asked.

[Kalai]

... Okay, this is a derail too, sorry, but how about music?   

[Marauder Moe]

Interesting.  Personally, I have no objection to singing over the Way.

Musical instruments (and other non-vocal sounds) would be about the same as images to me though.

[Kismetic]

Musical instruments (and other non-vocal sounds) would be about the same as images to me though.

Very awesome suggestion, Kalai!

And again, disagree with Marauder Moe here.  Again, it's within the realm of possibility.  Great composers are capable of remembering entire pieces to the note.  Even your everyday musician can recall a piece of music inside their head (even if they can't transcribe it to paper).  With some concentration, I can recall lengthy songs, front to back.  I think it's more a matter of who can, and cannot, which should be up to your discretion, since it's your character.

The real problem is, for me, the same problem I find at emoting music (which I see done very well, but the Way presents extra challenges).  You can't just be like, "oh, a bit of mixolydian in 3/4, with a scraping nail on the bass string."  I would find it very difficult to describe myself, but there's one to think on!

Since this particular subject is -not- covered by the documentation ...  does anyone care to comment?  I, for one, think it's plausible, as there is a mental link established, and anyone with the ability to conjure music within their mind, could so easily transmit a facsimile.  Thoughts?


Edit, for Kalai:  I may be derailing the thread myself, as I've come to see it as a sounding board for what is and is not possible with the Way, and trying to get an overall gauge on whether my impressions are accurate.

[Marauder Moe]

I don't doubt your melodic memory.

I just don't like the idea that "if I can imagine it, I can send it over the Way".

But, if I were redesigning Armageddon from scratch, no one but mindbenders would have psionic powers. Take my opinions as you will, with that in mind.

[Nyr]

I don't think the Way is a peer-to-peer file-sharing network. Please don't store your music in the minds of others.

[Talia]

Lately it seems like I'm posting a lot just to say "I agree with Nyr," but, yeah. It's a fascinating and creative suggestion, however I don't think it fits with the gameworld, or with how the code works.

[Kismetic]

I don't think the Way is a peer-to-peer file-sharing network. Please don't store your music in the minds of others.

Ha!  I think you're right that it's a bridge too far, and at this point, and I may just be stimulated with the idea, itself.

Penned,
JR

[Kalai]

Okay, so freeform poet works better than minstrel. 

However much I might want to get a melody stuck in someone else's head, that's a bit difficult with text, regardless of how you go about it.

[Potaje]

I don't doubt your melodic memory.

I just don't like the idea that "if I can imagine it, I can send it over the Way".

But, if I were redesigning Armageddon from scratch, no one but mindbenders would have psionic powers. Take my opinions as you will, with that in mind.

I equate this opinion with the same mind set that separates D&D players from Darksun players. I saw this as a former player od D&D, because when Darksun came out I wasn't down with the psi in it, so didn't play. Though, I will say, I enjoy what it brings to Armageddon and would probably enjoy Darksun all that much more, now. 

[KnownUnknown]

It makes sense that telepathic information, shared between the two, would carry emotions. look at it this way. The echo specifically states that someone is in your head, and you are connected to there head. I think emotions SHOULD be roleplayed in it more then in general rp. Why you ask?

It's alot harder to hide your emotions from someone thats actively in your head.

[Rairen]

Okay, so freeform poet works better than minstrel.  

However much I might want to get a melody stuck in someone else's head, that's a bit difficult with text, regardless of how you go about it.

I played a bard who'd be limited to voice and instrument.  She'd mentally fill in the missing instrumentation (drum, bass line, whatever).  If hooked up with someone while performing, they'd get flashes of the full concert.

I'm also an unrepentant Way twink, who throws in contradictory emotions, unrelated emotions, and makes the Way experience a much more fundamental activity than the average player. Probably not a good role model.   

[palomar]

Personally, I don't use emotions in Way messages. I'm alright with simple descriptions of emotions in Way messages, but I strongly dislike when someone sends me flowery emotion descriptions in Way messages. Images, I think, should be reserved for those who have the ability or the cultural traits to do so.

Considering that it takes some effort (temporary stun drain) to send psionic messages, I also don't think subconscious Way messages to be very realistic. I've encountered some PCs doing that, through the years. Also, sending only emotions with the Way is also something that annoys me when it happens. Would your PC (in "normal" cases) really have the ability to focus their mental strength to send pure emotion and no message over the Way, through conscious effort? While this is a fantasy game, I think most direct human communication in this case would be word-based, perhaps with some emotion spilling over and affecting the "tone" of the message.

Then again, the helpfile says it's alright to send emotions and images as long as you don't impose emotions on the person you're in contact with.

[Ampere]

I choose to convey the emotional context of my character's thoughts via the way, and I will continue to do so unless I'm told by staff to stop.

[i can haz mantis]

I choose to convey the emotional context of my character's thoughts via the way, and I will continue to do so unless I'm told by staff to stop.

QFT.

Liken a way to a text on your phone. You get the words, but not the emotion and sometimes things can be misconstrued and taken the very wrong way. If the way is like a thought to that person, then they should be able to feel the emotion behind it and not have it be something ambiguous like a text.

[Bluefae]

     For my own rp, I look at the Way as another tool to attempt to convey my character as best as I can.  We're already hampered by the fact that this is a text-based medium, with all the difficulties that implies.  The Way is a welcome relief, in that you can communicate emotions directly in a way that of necessity can usually only be implied in emotes and even speech.

    I've also always felt that the mind-to-mind sharing, being at a pre-speech level (this is how it bypasses the communication barrier of different languages, or so I've been told), is really quite intimate.  I sometimes use it that way, to emphasize a point, or simply for variety.

    I like Whiran Luck's take on it a lot.  Even here, some of my more disciplined and/or manipulative characters could "talk out of both sides" of their psionic mouth, whereas others were nearly incapable of lying via the Way (or in general without numerous "tells").  I -like- that this gives us another axis to better define/distinguish our critters.

[WarriorPoet]

I've always thought of psionics as a mass of emotions and images and phrases that my character's psionically-acclimated mind is used to taking and forming into concise messages. If we're just sending blocks of words to each other, without inflection or emotion, we might as well go back to the generic 'tell' command.