Lowest of the low

[Nahara]

Aye, at least breeds were born that way. 

[HavokBlue]

My perspective:

To a human, elves are probably worse than breeds. To an elf, humans are worse than breeds. However, breeds themselves probably get bashed more because the hatred towards them is coming from two different groups, while, for example, the hate elves get comes primarily from humans.

On a side note, why do dwarves dislike half-elves? It's not like it's a half-elf, half-dwarf mutant or whatever.

[Nahara]

I daresay a dwarf's internal consistency and a half-elf's internal paradox could leave them a bit alien to each other.

[BleakOne]

Yeah, I think half-elves are caught in the crossfire, even though each side probably considers full-blood elves (or humans, from the other side of the fence) worse.

[Marauder Moe]

Actually I think from the elven perspective, half-elves are worse than humans.

Elves already have contempt for anyone not in their tribe.

In addition, though, elves disdain the human inability to run, use of mounts, stupidity/gullibility, lack of true loyalty, etc.  From the elven perspective, half-elves share all those traits, but there's also the revulsion from the mixed blood aspect and the unstable mentality.

[Potaje]

Personally I would think in a world of valued water, spitting on each other might be a sign of friendship. I then would think, not being worth spitting on would be more an insult.

[Scarecrow]

Hmm, I find the half-elves are icky eww horror argument doesn't always apply. I usually play half-elves, and almost all of them got plenty of tail, and it was all human females lovin some breed. Once you go breed, for humans you got no need. 

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

If I were playing a breed, a trend like that would disturb me.

[HTX]

I usually play half-elves, and almost all of them got plenty of tail, and it was all human females lovin some breed. Once you go breed, for humans you got no need. 

I bet the relationship was highly secret, though.

I could understand why a PC would do such a thing - think of all the plots and conflict which could stem from such a taboo relationship - but PCs don't tend to be the statistical norm. Most Zalanthians probably would be absolutely appalled at the thought of a breed-human relationship.

[Gimfalisette]

If I were playing a breed, a trend like that would disturb me.

This is why I no longer play anything but mundane humans. It created way too much cognitive dissonance for me to try to wrap my characters' minds around constantly being sexually pursued when they knew they shouldn't be, and I knew they shouldn't be.

I don't know why it took me literally years to figure out, but I have finally learned that in ARM, if you want your PC to be socially/sexually rejected the way they should be according to the documentation, you have to vigorously enforce that yourself through your own roleplay. Relying on the playerbase as a whole to stick to the docs when it comes to sex is completely futile.

[Aaron Goulet]

This is why I no longer play anything but mundane humans. It created way too much cognitive dissonance for me to try to wrap my characters' minds around constantly being sexually pursued when they knew they shouldn't be, and I knew they shouldn't be.

I wish I could say that I'm surprised by this, but I'm not.  Some of my male half-elves had human women who were enamored with them too, so gender isn't the issue.  I wonder why this is?

(Oh, and for the record, when I say "I'd hit that" regarding a half-elf, I always mean it in the most literal sense.)

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Assuming that one is playing a breed right, I'd be surprised if the breed themselves didn't feel disturbed about something like that. Breeds, according to the docs, are an oxymoron unto themselves. They want to be accepted, but when they are, they think something is wrong and they often fuck it all up. This is something that might be hard to play (and I have no experience even trying). But unless the human or elf who was in love with the breed could deal with the sudden mood swings, I'd suspect that a relationship wouldn't last long at all.

[Scarecrow]

Assuming that one is playing a breed right, I'd be surprised if the breed themselves didn't feel disturbed about something like that. Breeds, according to the docs, are an oxymoron unto themselves. They want to be accepted, but when they are, they think something is wrong and they often fuck it all up. This is something that might be hard to play (and I have no experience even trying). But unless the human or elf who was in love with the breed could deal with the sudden mood swings, I'd suspect that a relationship wouldn't last long at all.

That's right, they rarely do. The independance/attachment complex of the half-elf makes for rocky and perilous grounds. Also yes, almost all of these relationships were very secret. Mostly because no respecting human wanted to be known as a "breed lover". As for the half-elves mindset, I prefer to think of it as the natural way a half-elf would deal with a relationship, fiercely attach themselves with much passion and devotion, then find themselves severing away and isolating themselves out of the blue, feeling uncomfortable being so close and accepted by someone. Then the cycle would repeat, they find another person or go back to the previous, become passionate and devoted, then break away all over again. Sometimes this doesn't happen and the half-elf stays true. To explain this, I see it as his mate become part of his own conflicted nature, wanting to take her away with him to be independent with her, and isolate himself and the mate from the rest of society. Up-down seesaw but I don't mind because it makes for interesting rp.

Edit: P.S also when the break-up phase occurs, its not so much the half-elf walks up and says "we're over" but he grows distant and quiet, almost depressive. It's not love em and leave em, but love em and get terrified.

[Armaddict]

Edit: P.S also when the break-up phase occurs, its not so much the half-elf walks up and says "we're over" but he grows distant and quiet, almost depressive. It's not love em and leave em, but love em and get terrified.

One of the better played half-elves I saw wouldn't even role-play that bit out.  They'd just randomly decide they didn't fit, disappear, find a new group of friends to fit in with then leave, and occasionally pop in on the old ones.  It's something that's hard to pull off where you can't really find 'separate' segregated crowds within one city, so I can't expect it all over...but it was actually pretty cool.

[hyzhenhok]

My perspective:

To a human, elves are probably worse than breeds. To an elf, humans are worse than breeds. However, breeds themselves probably get bashed more because the hatred towards them is coming from two different groups, while, for example, the hate elves get comes primarily from humans.

On a side note, why do dwarves dislike half-elves? It's not like it's a half-elf, half-dwarf mutant or whatever.

Dwarves are just as racist; it's just that they do things with their focus in mind. Mr. Stump doesn't hate elves just because they're thieves; he simply thinks they're useless at best and dangerous at worst when it comes to his focus. The biggest racism of a dwarf is when he decides to take one course of action over another on account of the race of another party.

Now, dwarves are perfectly capable of being racist here; they don't want to deal with half elves because they're useless, risky, unreliable, whatever. And why are they those things? Well, they're a half-breed. Or whatever.

If a dwarf's focus requires them to use elves or even befriend elves, though, you might see exceptions. A dwarf who has befriended a half-elf who he can make use of might think differently. Dwarves are probably the most flexible when it comes to race relations, because the specific demands of the Focus come before the generic societal prejudices. Of course, a dwarf who buddies up with sharps and breeds no doubt will encounter problems with humans down the road, but that just makes things even more fun and complicated.

[Spoon]

At the risk of quoting myself earlier in the thread, a human who hates elves will hate half-elves all the more. This makes them lowest of the low in human society.

To address employment, everyone knows elves make terrible slaves. Their psyche makes them only ever wish to work for themselves/their tribe, so this is easily extended to most employment.

Half-elves make good slaves. They also make good workers because they're suck ups. They also don't have a constant urge to take from others. They infact have a constant urge to impress others and fit in.

[Qzzrbl]

So half-elves being good slaves, good workers, and suck-ups make them lower than dirty, thieving, untameable elves?

[lordcooper]

So half-elves being good slaves, good workers, and suck-ups make them lower than dirty, thieving, untameable elves?

I think Spoon is trying to say that it merely makes them more employable.  They probably won't run off with the days takings and may even be persuaded to act pleasant-ish.
Doesn't mean the emplyer likes them.

[Qzzrbl]

So half-elves being good slaves, good workers, and suck-ups make them lower than dirty, thieving, untameable elves?

I think Spoon is trying to say that it merely makes them more employable.  They probably won't run off with the days takings and may even be persuaded to act pleasant-ish.
Doesn't mean the emplyer likes them.

True, but it certainly -does- mean the employer likes them more than full-blooded elves.

You see?

[lordcooper]

So half-elves being good slaves, good workers, and suck-ups make them lower than dirty, thieving, untameable elves?

I think Spoon is trying to say that it merely makes them more employable.  They probably won't run off with the days takings and may even be persuaded to act pleasant-ish.
Doesn't mean the emplyer likes them.

True, but it certainly -does- mean the employer likes them more than full-blooded elves.

You see?

Crap example, but I'm tired.

Say Hitler had been a florist.  Stalin (his boss for some reason) puts a gun to his head and says that he has to give a job to one of the next two people to come in.  This keeps things nice and equal, as everyone know you shouldn't judge people on skill and their aptitude for a job.  The next two people to walk in are a black guy and a jew.  Hitler dislikes both, the jew most of all.  However, the black guy is a convicted flower thief.  If Hitler was relying upon the continued success of the florists for his wellbeing, I truly think that in this scenario he may well have given the job to the jew.  At least until a 'real' human came along.

Note: I'm not a Nazi, this post is to be considered either a poor attempt at satire or a damn good idea for a sitcom.

[Qzzrbl]

So half-elves being good slaves, good workers, and suck-ups make them lower than dirty, thieving, untameable elves?

I think Spoon is trying to say that it merely makes them more employable.  They probably won't run off with the days takings and may even be persuaded to act pleasant-ish.
Doesn't mean the emplyer likes them.

True, but it certainly -does- mean the employer likes them more than full-blooded elves.

You see?

Crap example, but I'm tired.

Say Hitler had been a florist.  Stalin (his boss for some reason) puts a gun to his head and says that he has to give a job to one of the next two people to come in.  This keeps things nice and equal, as everyone know you shouldn't judge people on skill and their aptitude for a job.  The next two people to walk in are a black guy and a jew.  Hitler dislikes both, the jew most of all.  However, the black guy is a convicted flower thief.  If Hitler was relying upon the continued success of the florists for his wellbeing, I truly think that in this scenario he may well have given the job to the jew.  At least until a 'real' human came along.

Note: I'm not a Nazi, this post is to be considered either a poor attempt at satire or a damn good idea for a sitcom.

Hah!

I got a chuckle out of it, for what it's worth...

Either way though... I'd say elves are still hated more.

Mostly because they're usually scandalous, useless assholes towards anyone not in their tribe.... I mean, they are known for trying to screw anyone they can out of a deal (while making it look like a bargain)....

Perhaps we can discuss this a bit more in-depth after you get some sleep.

[X-D]

Um, I'd like to point out, the topic (look above)
And the OP.

I'm curious as to what demographic would be considered the least worthy of the fluid it takes to spit on.

This has little to do with hatred, if that was the question then the answer is simple, The most hated being in the game is a sorcerer, with bender running a close second, it states so in the docs. So nothing to talk about.

So, it is a question of Caste or social standing.

At which point, Breeds are far below pretty much anybody...on the average.

Also, I have hired many people IRL who I just could not stand. But they made money for me, and they did so better in some way then the people I liked yet did not hire.

Hiring somebody has nothing at all to do with how much you like them, ZERO, A business owner looks at the bottom line, hell, employees are simply numbers on paper anyway.

Also, keep in mind, an elf could actually be the best bartender in the world and more trustworthy then any other race...assuming the bar is owned by his tribe. A breed can never be fully trusted, by anybody.

[Dakota]

after reading through the history docs..

are/were their any famous breeds? who? what'd they do? did their accomplishments rise above the fact they were a breed?

[X-D]

Shatuka...only one I can think of, one who was mostly remembered because of her breedness. Well played breed, I measure most breeds today to her, and they all fall far short. Oh, and she was in Kurac, made sarge or higher.

Well, I can think of one other notable, Hawk.

Otherwise....nope, not many famous breeds.


(fixed name, thanks Venomz)

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

SHATUKA, I think.