Roles that people have trouble with

[brytta.leofa]

I have trouble with rogue magickers...  The guild sniffers always get me, no matter what subguild I choose.

Lie about your capabilities.  Drop hints that you're a burglar.  For special occasions, see if you can special-app something with a couple of low-capped extra skills.

But yeah, I haven't really made this work yet.

[Aaron Goulet]

I have trouble with rogue magickers...  The guild sniffers always get me, no matter what subguild I choose.

Lie about your capabilities.  Drop hints that you're a burglar.  For special occasions, see if you can special-app something with a couple of low-capped extra skills.

But yeah, I haven't really made this work yet.

You can get by as a merchant with a crafting skill until someone starts talking at you in Cavilish.  I hate guild sniffing overall, though, and hope that Arm 2 is a point-based character creation system for that very reason.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I have trouble with rogue magickers...  The guild sniffers always get me, no matter what subguild I choose.

Lie about your capabilities.  Drop hints that you're a burglar.  For special occasions, see if you can special-app something with a couple of low-capped extra skills.

But yeah, I haven't really made this work yet.

You can get by as a merchant with a crafting skill until someone starts talking at you in Cavilish.  I hate guild sniffing overall, though, and hope that Arm 2 is a point-based character creation system for that very reason.

My first magicker was a special apped tuluki viv/crafting subguild, her mother was a merchant, and she spent her life on the road with her, apprenticing to carry on the family business, until her mother died. The special app only had one thing special about it: Cavilish.

Between crafting and knowing Cavilish, it wasn't long before she'd bullshitted her way into Kadius as a crafter.

[jhunter]

Never had any problem with guild sniffing myself. Althought I've never tried to pass another guild off as a merchant. Maybe that's not entirely true, I've had rangers and warriors work as solo merchants but I've never tried to pass them off as guild merchant.  Otherwise, I've passed off mages as newbie rangers (mainly by not getting into combat in front of others) among other things.  I highly disagree that it's as rampant as a few people say it is. I think some people are paranoid about it and it skews their perception so they are seeing guild sniffers everywhere, when there are not.
"That guy just spoke to me in a language I don't understand, he's trying to see if I'm really the merchant guild! GUILD SNIFFER!!!" The fact of the matter is, the other player likely believed you were guild merchant and was trying to speak to you in their spiffy "merchant-speak" because they assumed you could. I still believe that cavalish should be available through the linguist subguild.

[Marauder Moe]

I still believe that cavalish should be available through the linguist subguild.

Not Linguist, but I think there absolutely needs to be a "Trader" subguild with Cavilish, value, and haggle.

I've said this for a while now.

[jhunter]

I still believe that cavalish should be available through the linguist subguild.

Not Linguist, but I think there absolutely needs to be a "Trader" subguild with Cavilish, value, and haggle.

I've said this for a while now.

That would be fine too. But, I still think that a linguist should be capable of speaking just about every commonly used language in the known world. I think when one chooses linguist they should be able to select three languages from a list to begin with. Cavilish should be on that list.

[X-D]

I think they should get cav and Bendune.

Why you ask, because, if you pick human, your only getting 2 languages from the sub, not 3, and if you pick dwarf, celf, breed, your only getting 1 language.

[Aaron Goulet]

I think they should get cav and Bendune.

Why you ask, because, if you pick human, your only getting 2 languages from the sub, not 3, and if you pick dwarf, celf, breed, your only getting 1 language.

This.

[spawnloser]

Yeah, X-D, but you're getting one of your languages maxxed when it wouldn't have been before, so that you can actually be understood in more than one language.  All those races you listed start with one language understandable and the other almost understandable only.

[Synthesis]

Yeah, X-D, but you're getting one of your languages maxxed when it wouldn't have been before, so that you can actually be understood in more than one language.  All those races you listed start with one language understandable and the other almost understandable only.

Haven't played a city-elf or a dwarf lately, have you?

[X-D]

Synth beat me to that one.

Dwarves and celves start with 2 mastered languages.

[spawnloser]

Really?  Yeah, I haven't played one of those in a little while.  That does kinda suck.  Then again, I used to love the Linguist subguild.  Now, though, with the Way, non-verbal communication and with enough others in the world that speak a language my characters understand, I've become disenchanted with that subguild for other reasons.  This just seals the deal for me.  Oh well.

[Bilanthri]

I always thought the coolness factor of the Linguist sub-guild was the enhanced ability to pick up new languages.

[jriley]

Yes.  Hardest role in the game, for the sheer amount of brain crunching you have to do to not only think that way, but -remember- to think that way.  It's easy to slip out of it.

Yeah, I like what you have to say about half-giants.  You can understand why I'm immediately suspicious upon meeting one.  It's kind of like Heller's Catch 22.  Half-Giants are so difficult to play and offer so few rewards (in terms of game influence) that you have to question that anyone playing one is serious.  It takes real dedication to do something like that well.

You can get by as a merchant with a crafting skill until someone starts talking at you in Cavilish.  I hate guild sniffing overall, though, and hope that Arm 2 is a point-based character creation system for that very reason.

Yeah, I agree with this post.  I think there are several strong cases for moving towards a point-based system.  For example, many players seem dissatisfied with their stats, which are still mostly random.  Other players complain about the race/class options available to them.  And still other players are unhappy that they can't have certain combinations of skills that are not available to the available guild/subguild combinations. 

Of course, then people will just begin to sniff whether or not you have certain skills.  It won't make the problem entirely go away.  Instead it will just make it much more difficult for someone attempting guild sniffing.

Assassins... Im not smart enough to get them to the level needed to be succesfull.

Yeah, I definitely feel you there.  It took me more than five years of somewhat consistent efforts to figure out how to properly do the assassin thing.  My knowledge related to this is among my most carefully guarded secrets.  In the end, the particular combination of building, attack methods and twinking associated with successful assassins seems somewhat illogical and not altogether fair. 

(spoiler below)
Kind of like where you're watching the Sixth Sense and you're supposed to determine that the Bruce Willis character is actually a ghost, but nobody has told you that you're supposed to be looking for anything.  I think there is a disconnect in terms of what the staff have used regarding the guild design, the level of brutality that players are willing to accept when a low-level assassin comes flying out of the dark at their 40-day Kurac Merchant, the level of effort that most players will be willing to spend in building a Sirhan-Sirhan (assassin) which is a fundamentally disposable character in the first place and the actual tolerance that staff have if you take a 50-day assassin and start building up a body count.

In essence, I think that we all want to live in a harsh harsh world until the moment when we turn around and see somebody pointing an axe at our throat, smiling at us.

[Jingo]

I have trouble with rogue magickers...  The guild sniffers always get me, no matter what subguild I choose.

Lie about your capabilities.  Drop hints that you're a burglar.  For special occasions, see if you can special-app something with a couple of low-capped extra skills.

But yeah, I haven't really made this work yet.

I've actually gotten pretty far doing these.

But it's too hard in Tuluk for IC reasons.

[Styx]

My last half-giant I played more like Leonard from Memento than Sean Penn in I am Sam.  But that's just me.

[KankWhisperer]

I don't like most human commoners.
Half the women are beauty queens, and half the men are too.
Guess there must be a lot of flouride naturally in zalanthas water for all the nice teeth.

I don't like how hard you have to work to stay a lowly no body.
Some people complain about the disproportionate amount of PCs are dwarves and HGs.
How about the disproportionate percentage of PCs who get snapped up by every
organization because they need PCs even if its unrealistic. There is hardly any such
thing as elite because PCs are needed so badly.

So few dwarf or HG females?? Again with people don't want to play ugly so they don't.
People want to play dwarves so they do.

Approximately 100% of whores are women. Does that mean there are no male whores?
(I instantly hate anyone who saunters)

There is plenty of things to complain about but you know what, sometimes it becomes
a playability issue. And asking two whole races to sit down and shut up so we can hear the
humans talk is stupid. I like funny Half Giants too and the docs say "Possessed of astounding degrees of curiosity and kindness"
To me that could be interpreted as joking with friends and astoundingly curious things are not quiet in my imagination.

Uh so many things to argue about on this thread. Dwarves have a lot of drawbacks. Took me six months  and 40+ days played to branch something a human even can do in a month fairly easy. There is a definite glass ceiling for them which (if you live long enough) will come into conflict with your focus and you character will resent it.

[brytta.leofa]

I don't like most human commoners.
Half the women are beauty queens, and half the men are too.

I like most characters I see.  People put a lot of thought into them.  People put a lot of thought into what they're doing.  We all get better at this with practice and experience...and from critique on the GDB sometimes, too.

But yeah, our averages are totally whacked.

[Nahara]

Male whores, they do happen. There's a market, opportunities. But - it's a hard role whether you're male or female, since it's so social-dependent - there's no falling back on code to do your job. Ain't no NPC shop to buy sex. That'd be pretty weird. I personally have a hard time getting over my OOC nervousness on the topic enough to try and sell my PC's body with great enthusiasm, male or female.

So whore: a role at least one person (me) has trouble with. I'm fascinated with the concept, but.

I like playing female dwarves. I also like making their descriptions so that they're reasonably attractive sorts. Why? I'm a tall, skinny, flat-chested person in real life. I'll relate to an elf or half-elf, physically, more. But if I'm looking for unlike myself, if I want to indulge in being what I'm not, you really can't beat a dwarf for short, curvy, muscular, wide-hipped, broad-shouldered, ruthlessly determined, incredibly focused, sheer concentrated kick-ass femaledom.

... I really ought to play more dwarven females.

Half-giants tend to put a smile on my face, male or female, I've seen a fair number of both, I enjoy the encounters. I'm not sure I'd play them often myself if I had the chance, I prefer interacting with people better at it.   Most of my experiences with half-giants are giving me pretty good impressions actually.

Role I have trouble with: Teeth.

I've played commoners who, after a time playing them, I realized I kinda messed up the description if they lived like this before I possessed them. Working on it.   A reason for not mentioning teeth at all, is that the tooth problems that would be rampant on Zalanthas, kind of freak me out. I'd prefer not to describe my teeth, in most cases. This is weird, considering what the teeth of this girl I liked once were like, but I guess I'm just squeamish about teeth in some situations. Assume they're in approximately the state of the rest of my body I suppose. If I mention they are particularly white, it probably means I make a habit of swishing with plains-ox urine or some similar, ah, treatment.   Seriously, ask me for hygiene advice if I'm playing someone remarkable in some sense in it! It sounds like it could lead to some fun interactions. How does one keep a nail from growing too long? Long nails are a liability in most cases. Biting them, may work. May lead to problems, especially if it becomes a nervous habit. It's just one solution. If my nails are in my character description, I've thought about them, and how that character deals with them.

[Marauder Moe]

I leave teeth out of my descriptions.

Yeah, Zalanthan people have bad teeth.  However, it's hard for us as players not to judge a character's attractiveness by our own standards, so I don't think it's a big deal if descriptions are somewhat slanted towards those standards.

[jhunter]

I either leave teeth out or they're very fitting for Zalanthas, I don't think I have a problem there.

[Prodikus]

I leave teeth out of my descriptions.

Yeah, Zalanthan people have bad teeth.  However, it's hard for us as players not to judge a character's attractiveness by our own standards, so I don't think it's a big deal if descriptions are somewhat slanted towards those standards.

I played a character with teeth so bad they were mentioned in the sdesc, and was regularly mocked by every f-me to cross my path. It was great: I assumed that, with Zalanthian dental care being what it is, they were not attacking me because of my teeth, which were average or a bit below average for my class; I therefore determined that they had a secret reason for mocking me, and dedicated my energies to undermining and destroy them.

I wonder sometimes if people just thought I was vain, but I imagine most never caught on.

[MeTekillot]

Went from troublesome roles to dental hygiene. Nice.

[Spice Spice Baby]

Ehh...before everything got all hot and heated, and back to the original matter...

I agree.  Half-giants are fucking -hard- to play, particularly when you're trying to avoid moving to one of the two extremes Malifaxis explained.  Though I do disagree with the description of his half-giant, at least as a standard (note:  There should be just as much variance in this as any other race, personalities differ, as well as the things the half-giant -does- have a solid grasp of.  Some may be be a complete ignoramus in conversation but show an utter stroke of brilliance in a sparring ring, not because of their strength, but because they are well practiced in using their size and strength.  It's intuitive, not an active intellect sort of thing, but something that they -have- learned over time with experience.  Others may be remarkably caught up in conversation and actually contribute, so long as they aren't asked to -create- something on the spot in their mind.  But they can repeat things they've heard, they can apply things they've heard, and they can pay attention.  So on and so forth).

As a standard...I think half-giants are -not- useless lumps of flesh who charge and fight and say 'Er, Duhhhhhh.' whenever someone asks a question.  They grasp basic things, and are roughly on the equivalency of a young adult in the Armageddon life.  In other words, they have their instincts, they have their intuition, and can act on it.  The problem comes with multi-tasking and remembering which information is pertinent to what, as in they may learn a lesson, or be given an order, and accidentally extend it to an area where it is no longer applicable.

Yes.  Hardest role in the game, for the sheer amount of brain crunching you have to do to not only think that way, but -remember- to think that way.  It's easy to slip out of it.


Edited to add:

By the way, I say they aren't useless lumps of flesh who charge and fight.  That's true.  But that would likely remain the IC stereotype aside from chosen few who actually had the time and patience to find those little things the giant was good with, and picked up on more easily.  A role I'd love to see for a giant would be one that is around a very subtle character often, and easily picks up on those subtleties, sees the genius of them, and tries to imitate, formulating their own subtlety that is not subtle at all and blatantly obvious.  Ability to perceive but not recreate.  That'd be fun.

For what it's worth, I think you are spot on (and you play wonderful half-giants).

[Anaiah]

I played a character with teeth so bad they were mentioned in the sdesc, and was regularly mocked by every f-me to cross my path. It was great: I assumed that, with Zalanthian dental care being what it is, they were not attacking me because of my teeth, which were average or a bit below average for my class; I therefore determined that they had a secret reason for mocking me, and dedicated my energies to undermining and destroy them.

If the sdesc is commonly understood to be the most notable characteristics of a character, and according to an old thread roughly half the playerbase doesn't read most mdescs anyway, I think it's fair to say that it was assumed (by and large) that they were worse than they were, if they were notably bad (notable enough to make it into the first impression people get from the character, the sdesc).