Magick: how does my character deal with it?

[Nyr]

Actually, I'm going to remove any references to that.  If it did happen then writing about it on the board isn't a good idea.  Please don't use IC examples (even if out-of-context or incorrect) to make points about this, thanks.

[Kevo]

Magick, and how my char deals with it:

       When a playing a mundane char, I tend to stay away from magickers in general. I rarely play the rough, tough, beastly type who can kill things easily, so I tend to fear them, more than hate them. I don't want to be shunned by my real friends, I don't want to get melted, or poisoned, or eaten by a blue, mutant carru they've summoned, and I really don't want people thinking -I'm- a magicker.

      However, if one gemmed (and mostly only gemmed) has an ability I can use, such as A) He can poison water, B) summon demonic forces to fight for him, C) make me sexy, and luscious with some kind of soul-warping elixir, for example, I may find uses for them. I might pretend to be his friend so I can get him to poison my friend joe, hire him to get those 'forces' to kill a mek so I can get that badass suit of armor, or, quite possibly, defend him in a relatively small argument, so they'll brew me that sex elixir I need to seduce me Lieutenant.


     When playing a magicker, I try and play about 75% of the liberated, I am what I am, magick is natural, and some element favors me tropes, while 25% of them are decent, hard-working commoners struck with this awful, horrible ability. If I play the former, I'll love myself, and decided to fear or distrust, or even outright hate magickers on a case by case basis. When I'm playing the ladder, you're all krath-damned evil, finger-wigglin', poisoning, conniving witches who should be using your powers to serve the Highlord.


Essentially, it comes down to maintaining this mindset:

If you are unable to use magick, then:

People outside (mainly below) your caste, foreigners, people of other races, and merchants will try to scam you, and fuck you up. Some of those said people, like magickers, and those with affiliations be it a reputable House, or a family of scumbags, will succeed.
Magickers, will succeed in much stranger, much more unpredictable, more despicable ways than anyone else, save templars.

People like you, in the same caste, from the same city, and/or the same race, will try less, and succeed even less than that.

Everyone should be hated just a tiny little bit, save those who have proven themselves, because they're all at least thinking about it, or planning it. That's a fact.

If you're playing someone who can use magick:

Exactly as stated before, except those who can use magick will probably fail more often, and try less often, because you're probably lumped into the same caste as them. And templars will try more often instead.

Magick, and how 'someone' deals with it:

          In my experience playing, I've seen magick hated, feared, loathed, ridiculed, blessed, praised, worshipped, and envied. I think, at the time, each and everyone of those reactions had a good IC reason behind it. That's about, what, 15% of the world though? Add in the virtual world, and the majority of the reactions I've seen include hating it, open hostility, and fear. Bam, documents, and player actions are still in concert.


In the event of HRPT disasters, this is what I feel happens, and what I feel should happen:

         I feel that when disasters like the Flood of Tuluk, or the Fires in Allanak strike, people are more concerned with staying alive, than in singling out who's responsible, and putting an end to the disaster. I think this is the realistic reaction, and is probably going to be most common, but a percentage of you out there should take up the mantle of heroes, and slaughter the entire Krathi temple next time, that way this kind of thing won't happen again. (Remember, you'll be praised) (-humor-)

         In all seriousness, I think any commoner would gladly fight a fire elemental beside any other citizen because that threat can be handled later. The burning man chasing you down should be handled immediately.


In an effort to encourage mundane and gicker intergration:


       If you hate, or fear a particular ability, it's most likely because you don't have it. Next time you're drinking with your buddies in the Gaj, find that drovian's mind and ask him how much it'd cost to send your buddy Gax into eternal darkness so you can finally get in the sack with his mate. If he ignores you, or gives you any shit, THEN openly hate on him, or be worried he just put a curse on you. I hate politicians, but I use their services all the time.

     If you decide you're in the minority of folks who are jealous of them, spend time around them, in private, hoping it'll rub off. If it doesn't, throw a bitch fit. If someone makes fun of you for it, or threatens your friend, go ahead and laugh at them too, and ridicule them as well, because not having powers, and not getting ostracized is better than being alienated and not having powers. Oh, unless of course that super sexy succubi elixir is still in the process of brewing, in which case, weigh your losses, and pick your battles.



That said, I'm not sure if I'm contributing, or what, but that's how I feel about things.


To address replies since I've written this:


I've seen magickers get killed in bars, and I've been one or more of them. With 100% of my chars, I can't be sure why they were killed. Because they're dead. That's it, it's over, there's no investigation afterwards I'm aware about, and being apart of any investigation is a bad idea.

I've only once, ever seen any amount of people be killed in a way I'd describe as huge. The cataclysm that created the moon. That's the only Huge thing I've ever seen.

I've wiitnessed people being killed in bars, yes, but considerably less than I read about in the newspaper, so, that's not even big, or notable by what I feel Zalanthan standards should be. I hope to see the day when at least 5-10 people a week get killed in the Gaj, just because it's that kind of place.

[Intrepid]

Confusion in Armaddict's words.

I understand that you do not understand.  I tried to explain earlier and you still seem to not understand, so I'll try to summarize.

The definitions of Fear and Mistrust are not synonymous, meaning they do not share the same meaning, as Homicidal Rage.  I get that you don't see it and I understand.  Having played in Allanak and seen it, I can state firsthand that it's there.  I can also further point you in the direction the forum in various previous posts as a location to see where the playerbase's thoughts lie.  Generally, it is ok to beat a mage to death.  It's not considered to be out of bounds behavior.  The idea that the wrong people in the two primary taverns being there when a mage comes in apparently should result in death to the pc.  There are players that will defend any negative reaction to a magicker to the bitter end.

Now that said, after having watched the overreaction and tried to play a gemmer a few years ago, I would never play a mage outside a tribal or a rogue.

But consider for a moment...if their presence is as intolerable as these forum writers are exhibiting, why have them in the world as pcs?  Why would the option be there?  We once had issues as a mud with iso-clans, but that seems to be the pull for a lot of mages.  We should be able to assume that roles are not just kick-me signs for game.  Characters allowed into game should be there for interaction and intrigue, not just as targets.  What role in Allanak does a dwarven gemmer serve?  What clans are they allowed into?  What interactions will they have with the playerbase that will make a player want to continue interacting with everyone outside of sheer masochism?

Nothing that I have said so far has been an assumption.  You yourself have apparently not seen any of this, and I accept that--even if it is a bit difficult to believe, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.  All of my experiences have been from this forum, receiving the treatment firsthand in play and watching it happen to other pcs.  If I didn't see it myself in any of these sources, I likely wouldn't have believed it had gone that far either.

So...you've seen successful mages?  I've seen countless stories of players who became frustrated and stored, all firsthand, on this forum.  But if this is a constant issue, the onus isn't solely on them to not play the role.  In fact, that's pretty much an excuse to ignore the issue by making one side of it go away.  The fact of the matter is, the issue will still be there and will eventually need to be dealt with.  And that issue, very obviously, is playability.  Playability is not severe repercussions from looking at a mage cross-eyed, it's expecting that the class be able to interact with the playerbase in the one area they can be allowed in without getting their heads cut off or without starving to death in their temples because they can't survive or getting killed in the wastes because the only way they could make money was by foraging and they became a target for Bloodthirsty Tribe of the Week.

For your response on 300: Sure, he was disgusted.  No, he didn't necessarily think they were a farce--that was the narrarator speaking in retrospect and likely long after the mystics were found to be traitors.  However, the gem is not a societal expectation in our game--that's the crim code.  The gem is a bullseye.

As far as half-elves, I have played my share of half-elves and found a number of merchant houses and organizations unwilling to work with them.  As for elves...great?  They like being isolated?  But then, what's the point of having an iso-clan?  How does it interact with the rest of the gameworld?

Also, in regards to ignorance of the commoner: If they don't know what they're dealing with, they should back off rather than attack.  As I said before, Fear is not Homicidal Impulses.

So how about we stop telling people to not play city mages and try getting them more into the fabric of the setting?

[AmandaGreathouse]

Actually, I'm going to remove any references to that.  If it did happen then writing about it on the board isn't a good idea.  Please don't use IC examples (even if out-of-context or incorrect) to make points about this, thanks.

My apologies. I didn't mean to cross the fine line there. I thought I was being largely vague enough. The email has been sent.

[Armaddict]

The definitions of Fear and Mistrust are not synonymous, meaning they do not share the same meaning, as Homicidal Rage.  I get that you don't see it and I understand.  Having played in Allanak and seen it, I can state firsthand that it's there.  I can also further point you in the direction the forum in various previous posts as a location to see where the playerbase's thoughts lie.  Generally, it is ok to beat a mage to death.  It's not considered to be out of bounds behavior.  The idea that the wrong people in the two primary taverns being there when a mage comes in apparently should result in death to the pc.  There are players that will defend any negative reaction to a magicker to the bitter end.

I'm not saying that homicidal rage is first reaction, but it can very easily go there.  This is not usually a one-sided dialogue that escalates the farther the mundane speaks.  What I am saying is that a gemmed in the past, for the most part, either a.  Had a noble or person of authority to contact if things were getting testy, or b. Generally tried to keep a low profile, and with attention, did not goad on the aggression further.  I'm not saying that in every scenario they goad it on, either, but that it has happened more frequently than I remember.  The hostility was already there, now it's being defended against and inciting a stronger reaction.

In the instance of chance encounters in lawless areas...it's not generally rage, it's desire to eradicate.  Which can be strong, yes, but it can also be feasible, just as feasible as those who play someone who trusts and likes a gemmer and believes they're just a victim and wants to be friendly, and so on.  If you want to attack one, you should attack the other, as well.

I, for one, often criticize playing the 'exception'.  So it should be known I'm not out there playing mage hunters, either.

For your response on 300: Sure, he was disgusted.  No, he didn't necessarily think they were a farce--that was the narrarator speaking in retrospect and likely long after the mystics were found to be traitors.

The dialogue with his wife later says differently.  Either way, this is kind a moot point, I was merely saying it wasn't exactly a pristine example.

So...you've seen successful mages?  I've seen countless stories of players who became frustrated and stored, all firsthand, on this forum.

That was my point exactly.  Just because people play the role in the society and don't like it doesn't mean that it needs to be changed.  It means the role may not be cut out for them.  Much like I don't like playing merchants, and do not particularly enjoy magickers for these reasons, doesn't mean I think everything is swinging out of wack until it's reversed and I can find enjoyment in it.  It means that despite the fact I fucking love arm's magick system, it's not really for me.

Also, in regards to ignorance of the commoner: If they don't know what they're dealing with, they should back off rather than attack.  As I said before, Fear is not Homicidal Impulses.

How about Glory?  Or fear of the city state?  Loyalty?  Desire to contribute?  Hatred?  Need to prove themself?  Desire to overcome a fear and show their worth?  Desire to impress?  In wars, friendly fire comes from an immediate reaction to a friendly discharging their weapon, and heroic action often comes from spur of the moment action as well, or a compelling resistance to succumbing to fear or even logic.  Sometimes, just because you don't know about something, that doesn't mean you immediately skidaddle.  Sometimes they charged that tank and won and got props for it.  And if it's against something they view as something inherently evil or questionable in the first place, that's a big bonus.

[Old Kank]

But if this is a constant issue, the onus isn't solely on them to not play the role.  In fact, that's pretty much an excuse to ignore the issue by making one side of it go away.  The fact of the matter is, the issue will still be there and will eventually need to be dealt with.  And that issue, very obviously, is playability.  Playability is not severe repercussions from looking at a mage cross-eyed, it's expecting that the class be able to interact with the playerbase in the one area they can be allowed in without getting their heads cut off or without starving to death in their temples because they can't survive or getting killed in the wastes because the only way they could make money was by foraging and they became a target for Bloodthirsty Tribe of the Week.

Intrepid summed up my thoughts quite nicely.  Distrust of elves reduced city elves to a single role of a 'rinth rat.  The same mindset has been reducing magickers to a single role of 'rogue' magicker.

The question then, is how do you make non-rogue magickers a playable option while preserving some fear/distrust of magickers?  I think the best way to do this is to create social incentives for people to play magickers, while perpetuating a social stigma from the mundanes.  Make Allanak a place where players want to play magickers in spite of the fact that their characters are spit and brawled on in the Gaj.  Create magicker-only jobs with the templarate, and allow magickers back into noble and merchant houses. 

I personally would welcome a course correction or an IG explanation for the mind-bogglingly irrational atmosphere in Allanak.  Given the current state of things, the gemmed are Allanak's biggest asset; they should be treated as such by the political powers that be, and the commoner's fear/hate should be laced with resentment because of any special treatment mages receive.

[janeshephard]

If there's a will to provide the gemmed with more community, a very simple step would go a long way: remove a certain room from the Vivaduan barracks.

The Vivaduans would gravitate back to their temple proper, and resume their old function of serving as a nucleus for the gemmed community to gather around.

100% + win for gemmers, but on the other side of things???

No. We need a balance. Arm2 is supposed to bring it then bring it on. I just hope our community, staff and players can be productive toward this before it makes people too bitter. Whatever "fix" we have let's pursue it.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I really wouldn't like to see that room removed. If you're really wanting to see RP with them, wait in their temple for 2-3 minutes, rather than spamwalking past with a glance inside it. I've ALWAYS had the temple there filled with magickers 90% of the time when playing a viv. You want to interact with vivs, it's on you to pursue it, not to drive them out of their hidey hole that the other elementalists get. Sorry, but fuck that. If they WANT to interact with you, they will. If they don't, they won't. It's as simple as that.

[Jingo]

Bleh, I'll just say this.

Anyone remember the days when the byn would bring along a krathi and a whiran along on a sorcerer hunt?

I would like to see that again. Mages in 'nak should be hired for magical services on a regular basis. With a reasonable tax given to your local templar of course.

[Cutthroat]

Bleh, I'll just say this.

Anyone remember the days when the byn would bring along a krathi and a whiran along on a sorcerer hunt?

I would like to see that again. Mages in 'nak should be hired for magical services on a regular basis. With a reasonable tax given to your local templar of course.

Do you, really?

Sometimes events like that really start to show that mundanes are cannon fodder for magickers, who use the mundanes as meat shields. I appreciate the place of gemmers and magickers in the game, but I don't think that place is best represented by any organization calling on their assistance. I think even templars should be looked at weirdly by other templars if they're using gemmers for things soldiers can do. And there are some things gemmers can do that soldiers can't, so just leave that to the gemmers.

A few people in this thread have mentioned a lack of job opportunities for gemmers - all I can say is that it should still be possible to find employment other than in House Oash secretly, and it will probably be an enjoyable thing to do that as well. I disagree with the idea that this should be a thing that is aired out to the public. Allanak is "subtle" too, and employing gemmers while not being a typical gemmer-employer has been one of its subtleties for years. It should be hidden, and it sure as hell should be rare.

I personally would welcome a course correction or an IG explanation for the mind-bogglingly irrational atmosphere in Allanak.  Given the current state of things, the gemmed are Allanak's biggest asset; they should be treated as such by the political powers that be, and the commoner's fear/hate should be laced with resentment because of any special treatment mages receive.

All I can say to this is: old habits die hard. Commoners are thick-headed and won't necessarily sway their opinion towards the positive regarding something they feared and hated before, because their city was devastated. Expect such a change to an outlook on gemmers come about IG, and expect it to be player-driven.

I think there is no staff-side change to the game needed to fix the problems presented in this thread. What is needed is a renewed focus on the documentation with regards to mundane-magicker interactions and changes and clarifications to that documentation if necessary. What is needed is a more driven focus in-game to get the desired effects for individual gemmers or (more complicated) for all gemmers. It is easy to complain about the problems here, but far more difficult (and rewarding) to actually go in game and try to make things make more sense.

[Barzalene]

Cutthroat, huge difference between '07 when things really got out of control and earlier times where there was perhaps a bit too much trust and sunshine but the gemmers (players if not not always the rest of the playerbase) kept themselves a bit aloof and off balance and didn't seem too proud of themselves.

I remember in the period you're talking about some gemmer (in silks head to toe like a noble) lamented to my pc that she didn't understand why some people didn't seem to want to be friends with her.

I (if you look back to the start) am shifting positions here a little, having been persuaded, largely by Intrepid, that some, more ease of interaction could be warranted.

Some. Not a free for all. Not the happy huggy Utopian kind. Just something so the role of gemmer doesn't suck completely.
The other side of that though is that no matter how many pc gemmers there are in the city, I don't want to -see- magick. I need those players playing them to remember that they are a hated minority. Yes. Hated. And yes feared.

[Cutthroat]

I'm inclined to agree. I think there should be interaction between gemmers/magickers in general and mundanes, besides "ahaha, you die now". I think that the docs already allow for that, and it's up to players on both sides of the aisle to stick to it and do what's necessary to self-enforce what the documentation calls for. I think that if the docs are unclear in any way, then that should be brought up here.

[Marauder Moe]

I remember not too long ago how people were complaining about characters being too chummy with gemmers.

I remember before that people complaining about how gemmers were too hated/isolated and it wasn't fun to play them.

I remember before that how people were complaining that gemmers were too common and people were being chummy and unafraid of them.

I remember before THAT how gemmers were too heavily stigmatized and completely unfun to play.

I remember before THAT... well, hopefully you all get the point.


Simmer down, people.  This is a natural cycle of Armageddon.  Before long it'll swing back the other way.

[LoD]

I remember not too long ago how people were complaining about characters being too chummy with gemmers.

I remember before that people complaining about how gemmers were too hated/isolated and it wasn't fun to play them.

I remember before that how people were complaining that gemmers were too common and people were being chummy and unafraid of them.

I remember before THAT how gemmers were too heavily stigmatized and completely unfun to play.

I remember before THAT... well, hopefully you all get the point.


Simmer down, people.  This is a natural cycle of Armageddon.  Before long it'll swing back the other way.

I remember before people needed to complain about elementalists being chummy or hated.  I'd like to see that cycle back.

-LoD 

[Marauder Moe]

Everyone seems to feel that Arm was at it's best/most balanced earlier in their career (probably around their 1-2 years playing period).   

Really, though, I think much of the time things are balanced.  It's just that during those times people don't make noisy threads complaining about it.

Let's look at some other cycles that I suspect are between peaks at the moment:
North vs. South population - How is it now?  Does one city have significantly more players than the other, or is it even for the moment?
Half-elf/elf population/hate - Too much?  Too little?  I haven't seen any threads about them lately.
Slumming/haughty nobles - Do they hang out in the Gaj too much?  Or are they too isolated to be fun?

[spawnloser]

You know what?  I'm tired of people going off on how (by the way, I stopped reading after a while) how this game is supposed to be low-magick.  Where do you get that?  It's supposed to be low-fantasy, which is a completely different term.  In a world that used to be a lush paradise but is now a desert because of magick, with all the magickal wackidoo that's in the history, and you want to call this game low-magick?  It's not.  It's low-fantasy because we're not playing Gandalf, Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas but some other guys that may not be heroes.  That is what defines low-fantasy, that you're not following the heroes.  It's fantasy, but you're not following some epic.

I'm fine with how magickers work now.  I still believe some improvement can be made to how they are integrated into or used by society.

[LoD]

Everyone seems to feel that Arm was at it's best/most balanced earlier in their career (probably around their 1-2 years playing period).   

Really, though, I think much of the time things are balanced.  It's just that during those times people don't make noisy threads complaining about it.

I don't feel that Arm was at it's best/most balanced earlier in my career.  I think many aspects of the game are better balanced now, and that there are certainly cyclical trends in player population/distribution, FOTM race/class combinations (often fueled by specific clan recruitment or chance), and other such trends.

The integration of universal fear and hatred toward all-things-magick, however, was not a trend.  It was a very deliberate choice sparked by a very deliberate event.  The only cycling has been between the narrow poles it's provided over the last 12 years.  And the cycle has always been a measure of fear -- "People aren't hating/fearing magickers enough." -- "People are hating/fearing magickers too much."  It's really not the same thing as play distributions between cities or player distributions through class/race combos.

The crux of what I and people like Old Kank want is not to abolish the fear and mistrust of magick, but to increase the amount of options magickal characters (especially elementalists) have to simultaneously employ their skills and interact with the mundane player base.  There should be a stigma attached to being a magicker, but that stigma should be allowed to vary between the type of magick being employed or used. 

Sorcerers should be the sole recipient of wholesale fear, mistrust and hatred by the general populace.  They should be treated like a plague carrier that threatens to destroy your entire civilization if they're allowed to integrate into your society.

Elementalists should have lower levels of fear and mistrust.  They should be treated more like people treat rats.  Some people fear rats because they can be a carrier of disease and they do choose to eradicate them whenever they are found (i.e. Tuluk).  Some people dislike rats and yelp and scurry away whenever they see them because they are an oddity and rumored to be unclean. (General Populace).  Some people use rats as tools for testing, research, or study in controlled environments. (Allanak Employers).  And some people keep rats as pets and treat them as friends and companions, having overcome the stigma normally associated with them. (Individual Choice)

Unconditional friendship toward a magicker should be as rare as feeling homicidal rage toward one.  There are certainly solutions out there to make unrealistic use/abuse of magick in friendly situations a moot issue, which would remove the necessity to impose artificial barriers between more frequent mundanes/elementalist fraternization and cooperation.

-LoD

[jhunter]

Sorcerers should be the sole recipient of wholesale fear, mistrust and hatred by the general populace.  They should be treated like a plague carrier that threatens to destroy your entire civilization if they're allowed to integrate into your society.

Elementalists should have lower levels of fear and mistrust.  They should be treated more like people treat rats.  Some people fear rats because they can be a carrier of disease and they do choose to eradicate them whenever they are found (i.e. Tuluk).  Some people dislike rats and yelp and scurry away whenever they see them because they are an oddity and rumored to be unclean. (General Populace).  Some people use rats as tools for testing, research, or study in controlled environments. (Allanak Employers).  And some people keep rats as pets and treat them as friends and companions, having overcome the stigma normally associated with them. (Individual Choice)

OMG, spot on I'd say.

[Spoon]

I see where it's going, but I think the rat metaphor is better for half-elves, elves or rinthis. Rats aren't really mysterious or powerful, and treating them like rats suggests they are vermin of a lower class (fine for some castes, but generally commoners are fully aware elementalists are more powerful than then, being one of the reasons they hate them so much). I'll carry this on at some point but have to run... bear in mind it's constructive criticism!

[MeTekillot]

Treat gemmed magickers like gemmed magickers. Spit on them if you have a mind to. Be nice to them if you want to do that, as well. Fear them. Hate them. It's your choice. Figure it out for yourself and everyone will probably benefit. It's not wrecking someone's life if you decide to give that magicker a drink, or a punch, or a sneer, or an uncomfortable glance away. RP what your character would do.

[Spoon]

Exactly, people simply need to interact more with elementalists. The problem seems to be people not interacting at all because they feel they shouldn't. It's only when people actually do interact that all this role playing stuff we keep talking about actually happens!

[Akaramu]

While I probably don't know enough about the current IC situation to really comment on it, I can say that one of my most favourite PCs ever was a recent gemmed mage, and in house Oash. I really don't understand the Anti-Oash sentiments expressed by you, Amanda. It was close to being my very best clan experience to date.

I also don't understand the calls for change, I had a blast with my gemmed. Even after most of the people she hung out with stored / stopped logging in - at times she was so lonely she considered paying her favourite food provider a large just for pleasant company - I still had tons of fun. And there was still interaction to be found, I saved some blisteringly awesome logs from those. Later on, with more social PCs, I sometimes missed being able to play Armageddon semi afk and work for uni at the same time.

Of course, I had to do a lot of solo RP. But I was aware of this when I decided to return to the game with a gemmed mage PC. I was not looking for a social role, but rather something else, and I got that. Many of my HOLY SHIT!!!11!! moments that really showed me how awesome this game is can be related to that character.

Anyone who does not enjoy the possible social isolation of the gemmed mage role is free to play something else.   I kind of like how mages are less present in the mundane world lately, a more rare sight, like they are supposed to be. It makes the world feel more real to me.

[janeshephard]

I also don't understand the calls for change, I had a blast with my gemmed.

You were in House Oash. None of my gemmers managed in getting in. Consider your experience the exception.

[Akaramu]

You were in House Oash. None of my gemmers managed in getting in. Consider your experience the exception.

My other 2 gemmed who tried to join didn't get in either. They were still fun to play. That was before the recent economy changes, and I can see how gemmed survival without clan might be more frustrating now... but isn't this true for unclanned mundanes, as well? You're not guaranteed to get a job, and you might not make any friends willing or able to help out.

[Armaddict]

Alright.  So.  It occurs to me that these threads actually behave in much the same manner as in the game.  The whole mage/mundane thing gets out of whack, which it tends to do, and the opposite end reacts to the extreme to counteract the perceived opposite extreme.  I'm guilty of it, out of that need to feel the balance.  But we aren't actually finding the balance.

It seems that there are basic 'schools of thought' so far as the issue goes, which are (loosely):
1.  Make the game mage friendly.  Everyone should be able to play a magicker and enjoy it.
2.  The social setting is fine, but people need to keep interactions going (whether they be positive or negative) to keep the game going.
3.  Mages are a powerful role that needs to be tempered by IC barriers, which is the accurate negative roleplay towards that role from the majority of mundane roles.

Of those, just with my own temperament, I lean towards 3, but can find 2 to be the 'healthy balance'.  It does, however, require that things don't get polarized to either 1 or 3, which is difficult since any perceived 'lean' to those sides will make those who disagree with it react to their own extreme.  Which is what needs to be stopped.  So while I say hostility is a plausible response, it shouldn't be standard response.  While friendship is a plausible response, it shouldn't be standard response.  I believe mages should choose an elementalist class -knowing and expecting- social barriers and plenty of random negative interactions, plus some surprising positive ones.

My model would be like the movie Powder (I think this analogy has been made before, and I like it.)  In this movie, the kid is 'the freak' or 'abomination'.  The general consensus is that he's weird, and he gets looks, gets stiff treatment, and is generally looked down on, but it is not openly hostile.  He has a few people who have had the chance to know him, believe in him, and support him.  On rare and extreme circumstance, they defend him from the third group, which is also a small group, but who are openly hostile.  They jab.  They harass.  Hostility is present, all the time, but in small doses.

This is average treatment.  After a -display- of what he can do, everything erupts (which would be why public magick is made illegal).  More people are outraged, but also have their own misunderstanding.  They are aggressive to what they don't know.  They group together against it.  Powder still has his friends, who do what they can, but it's made difficult by the social turmoil.

There will always be variances, but I'd hope they remain small.  The above, however, has a balance between positive and negative, with the fear and distrust omnipresent, and the spiked reactions to exposure to what can't be understood well.  So yeah, that's my platform.



Side Issue!  Employment!

This is actually skirting the issue the thread was really about, brought about as proof of the 'new' hostility and unmanageable state of mages.  And honestly...I don't think this should change.  Finding full, steady work for a mage is hard due to the social stigma, and I think it should stay that way.  Independent contracted work might yield results, as well as all out independent starting of their own business.  However, by and large, the best options are for the two clans in the south that make use of mages, and then the various groups who would make use of them if they 'retreat' to a place where they are more free...but also more vulnerable.  I think you understand where that would be.

The main problem I see with that, however...is that those clans have to remain -active-, very active.  There needs to be things to do.  Oash should be politicking and using its resources to aid in that politicking.  Not as in direct intimidation, but they can be incredibly involved and valuable if they use those resources right, without -ever- angering anyone over how they use it.  It's just kept secretive, so that the average mundane never even knows they are depending on a mage's information or help, or else they may waiver in their trust of the cause/mission.  The Arm, on the other hand...warmages.  This is where they go.  It's...harder to balance here, because I don't see them being used -every single time- a unit goes out, or the mundane loses confidence in their own necessity.  But they should still be the active employer of those types.  It enhances their own capabilities, while offering the control of the templarate directly as something to trust in.

Other clans will generally have a hard time opening it up for mages aside from in secretive deals.  Simply because of the dependence on the public view of them, which can't be allowed to falter or they lose standing, rapport, and ability.

Better than the rambles before?