C-elf rangers?

[Qzzrbl]

Alright.... So a previous topic discussed whether or not c-elves should be rangers sprang up here.

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,38583.msg526941.html#msg526941

Let's see what folks think.

[Qzzrbl]

Would be cool to hear some reasons for or against. o:

[Gunnerblaster]

I voted "No" because what would be the point of having a difference between city-elves and desert-elves? And like someone mentioned in your previous thread - A ranger is someone who lived and grew up in the wilderness. A city-elf is the complete opposite - An elf who grew up on the streets instead of the wastes, like their desert elven kin.

[Delstro]

If staff say we should be playing the character, and not the guild, then by all means, let them pick ranger. One cannot help what they are talented at. The C-elf should have to deal with being mostly useless as they grew up.

I voted no, because a C-elf would have spent their forming years in the city. Whatever you don't learn in your forming years, you usually are cursed to be naturally horrible at it, unless you spend years upon years improving it.

[Thunkkin]

I don't understand the whole "they didn't grow up getting trained in the desert" thing.  I always understood guilds as representing potential and aptitude. 

There are nobles who are guild pick pocket.  Did they grow up picking pockets?  Did all warriors really grow up sparring and being trained to fight?  Why must all rangers have been raised going out into the desert?

[Semper]

For the same reason elves don't ride. Because the docs say so.  

[edited to add: Well... to better clarify, a ranger just doesn't fit the bill of a city elf. I could give more conclusive reasons why, but it reveals IC knowledge about guild restrictions. Simply put, city elves are city bred, and desert elves are desert bred. That's how the docs put it, and that's how those races are meant to be played.

[RogueGunslinger]

I voted "No" because what would be the point of having a difference between city-elves and desert-elves? And like someone mentioned in your previous thread - A ranger is someone who lived and grew up in the wilderness. A city-elf is the complete opposite - An elf who grew up on the streets instead of the wastes, like their desert elven kin.

This is pretty shallow thinking. I don't understand your first question at all. "What's the point in having a difference between city and desert elves?" You're saying that you don't see the point in having them be different here, but they already are, vastly... It's the exact opposite of what you should be arguing. If there could be city elf rangers the differences between city and D-elf would diminish not increase.

I've played many human class rangers who didn't grow up in the wilds, fending to survive. I've played militia soldiers as class ranger before... and all sorts of different concepts that didn't focus on being a master of desert living.

[RogueGunslinger]

This is a very wrong direction for the mud to go in. It's like saying if your play a guild_ranger you HAVE to have a certain background. It's not like all Guild_magickers have to have a background in something that pertains to their magickal skill set. Guild_assassins don't have to have a history of sneaking around killing people.

They just have an affinity for it.


I can't believe how many people are voting no without giving a reason.

[jstorrie]

I like my city elves to be super-urban and my desert elves to be super-wastelandy. I don't want there to be middle ground.

[Synthesis]

Wouldn't bother me either way.

p.s. A lot of ranger skills work in the city as well, so a c-elf ranger could easily just be an assassin without backstab who was -really- good with a crossbow instead.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I voted yes.

Ranger has some really great utility skills that work in and out of the city, so it doesn't make a great deal of difference, especially paired with the fact that guild = aptitude, not history necessarily.

I'd really like to see all races have all guild choices.

Like for instance, a d-elf burglar. Lots of wagons have locks.

[Synthesis]

I voted yes.

Ranger has some really great utility skills that work in and out of the city, so it doesn't make a great deal of difference, especially paired with the fact that guild = aptitude, not history necessarily.

I'd really like to see all races have all guild choices.

Like for instance, a d-elf burglar. Lots of wagons have locks.

ya but if the wagon started moving you would instantly lose all your d-elf karma

[Qzzrbl]

I voted "No" because what would be the point of having a difference between city-elves and desert-elves? And like someone mentioned in your previous thread - A ranger is someone who lived and grew up in the wilderness. A city-elf is the complete opposite - An elf who grew up on the streets instead of the wastes, like their desert elven kin.

Desert elves have a plethora of bonuses that City elves simply do not-- most notably (and perhaps the only one of which  discussion is allowed) their ability to run in the desert.

That singular ability right there is enough to keep C-elves from being -anywhere- near as badass or desert-savvy as D-elves.

Period.

Couple that with their lack of riding ability, elven rangers would still be a few notches below rangers of any other race.

Why can't a city-bound elf be handy with a bow? Or know how to work with poisons and cures? Or be able to bandage, or look for tracks?

Like I said in the earlier thread, alot of people have figured out guild/subguild combinations that allow for a c-elf to go out hunting within reasonable walking distance from a city, so really, letting C-elves get ranger wouldn't really change all that much as it is-- spare giving them more options leading to more diverse elven characters.

[Qzzrbl]

Also, I've reset the poll and changed the options a little-- just for shits and giggles.

[X-D]

No.

A city elf should not even want to leave the city. The ones that do should be quite rare. Letting them take ranger would make them less then rare...or even less rare then they already are.

[Qzzrbl]

With all the dangers of the wastes, piled ontop of a city-elf's short walking range in the desert-- I -really- doubt you'd see many who leave the city any more than c-elves of other guilds.

[X-D]

To many leave already, no need to add even more reason to do so.

[Qzzrbl]

Again, the guild itself is just a collection of skills-- nothing more, nothing less. Just because a c-elf ranger sees "ranger" when he types "score" wouldn't make him any more likely to leave a city than if he were a warrior or assassin.

What would make a ranger want to leave the city in the first place? If the player of a C-elf wants to leave the city, he'll do it whether he has the ranger skillset or not.

[X-D]

Yup, your right, but why make it easier or safer?

And if celves could be rangers then you would have to allow delves to be assassins...not something I think would be wise.

[Qzzrbl]

Yup, your right, but why make it easier or safer?

And if celves could be rangers then you would have to allow delves to be assassins...not something I think would be wise.

It would be no easier or safer than if you chose the right guild/subguilds which aren't at all that hard to figure out.

And we're not talking about D-elves getting any other guilds here-- this discussion is about City Elves.

[X-D]

But your arguement is that elves are elves and ranger skills should be learnable by a city race, if that arguement is sound then city skills should be learnable by a desert race. And the assassin skill set is quite comperable to ranger.

[Qzzrbl]

But your arguement is that elves are elves and ranger skills should be learnable by a city race, if that arguement is sound then city skills should be learnable by a desert race. And the assassin skill set is quite comperable to ranger.

We'll discuss that issue if someone else decides to make a thread about it.

And I never once used the argument that "elves are elves", I recognize the difference between city and desert elves-- read a few of my previous posts.

Humans, dwarves-- they're allowed to have the ranger option even if their background is strictly city-bound. So there's no reason a city-slicker elf should not have access to the skills that rangers do.

[Gunnerblaster]

I voted "No" because what would be the point of having a difference between city-elves and desert-elves? And like someone mentioned in your previous thread - A ranger is someone who lived and grew up in the wilderness. A city-elf is the complete opposite - An elf who grew up on the streets instead of the wastes, like their desert elven kin.

This is pretty shallow thinking. I don't understand your first question at all. "What's the point in having a difference between city and desert elves?" You're saying that you don't see the point in having them be different here, but they already are, vastly... It's the exact opposite of what you should be arguing. If there could be city elf rangers the differences between city and D-elf would diminish not increase.

I've played many human class rangers who didn't grow up in the wilds, fending to survive. I've played militia soldiers as class ranger before... and all sorts of different concepts that didn't focus on being a master of desert living.

Well, I know it's pretty shallow reasoning. I'm just tired and don't really feel like arguing much about it. I just wanted to post my thoughts on why I said no. I'm not going to argue why or why not. I simply say No. Not that my opinion really matters. Just a tally of opinions.

What I meant by "What's the point" in having the two considered separate races, codedly, if city-elves can basically become desert-elves - Minus the perks D-elves get in the wastes. You basically just clarified my meaning in your post - About the whole diminishing between differences.

[Qzzrbl]

I voted "No" because what would be the point of having a difference between city-elves and desert-elves? And like someone mentioned in your previous thread - A ranger is someone who lived and grew up in the wilderness. A city-elf is the complete opposite - An elf who grew up on the streets instead of the wastes, like their desert elven kin.

This is pretty shallow thinking. I don't understand your first question at all. "What's the point in having a difference between city and desert elves?" You're saying that you don't see the point in having them be different here, but they already are, vastly... It's the exact opposite of what you should be arguing. If there could be city elf rangers the differences between city and D-elf would diminish not increase.

I've played many human class rangers who didn't grow up in the wilds, fending to survive. I've played militia soldiers as class ranger before... and all sorts of different concepts that didn't focus on being a master of desert living.

Well, I know it's pretty shallow reasoning. I'm just tired and don't really feel like arguing much about it. I just wanted to post my thoughts on why I said no. I'm not going to argue why or why not. I simply say No. Not that my opinion really matters. Just a tally of opinions.

What I meant by "What's the point" in having the two considered separate races, codedly, if city-elves can basically become desert-elves - Minus the perks D-elves get in the wastes. You basically just clarified my meaning in your post - About the whole diminishing between differences.

It really wouldn't diminish the difference between C-elves and D-elves any more than a c-elf who went assassin with the hunter subguild. It truly wouldn't.

Without mounts, or d-elfs desert running, a city-elf can't go out and pwn the wastelands like desert elves can-- can't even come close. The wastes would still be just as dangerous to them as they are now. The Ranger skillset doesn't automatically make it OMGWTFICANSURVIVEINTHEDESERT, epecially now that storm navigation is more readily available.

[Cutthroat]

If a rinther of any other race can pick ranger (can they? it's been a while since I pointed there), then c-elves should be able to as well.

The reasoning is that most rinthers are stuck in the alleys, just like most c-elves are stuck in the walls of their city. While most rinthers wouldn't want to leave the rinth, and most c-elves wouldn't want to leave their city, there will be a few that do. Should they be ostracized by their fellow rinthers/c-elves? Perhaps. Should they have the option to play the exception (and therefore, suffer the consequences for doing so)? Absolutely.

/votes "yes"

Edit to add: Of course, this opens the ability to allow d-elves to play the city sneak classes, which they would suck at due to their own IC restrictions, but should still be able to attempt.