C-elf rangers?

[Thunkkin]

For me, the way C-elves are handled falls into the same category as the way that Vivaduans are loathed or killed on sight by the thirsting masses of a desert planet.  I'm not talking here about the cool c-elf tribes that were added (and that were greatly needed), but rather the fact that c-elves are somehow genetically proud of their genetic inability to run in the desert and that a race that can adapt to city life cannot, like all the other races, adapt back to desert life.  A dwarf or human that has lived all their life in the city or farming in Menos (RIP), can stroll out and be a ranger in the sands.  Elves have a brain disease that makes this impossible.  This mental deformity also makes them fiercely, suicidally proud of abilities they don't have - a trait, you would think, that would get weeded out pretty quick by natural selection on a world like Zalanthas.

It doesn't make sense.  You'll see all sorts of convoluted justifications.  Lots of twisting semantics.  But it just flat out doesn't make sense.  It's one of the Wookiees of Zalanthas.

However, a major portion of the playerbase and all of the staff love it.  It is "flavor" and it's part of the quirky, weird charm of Armageddon.  There is, in my opinion, nothing to be gained other than frustration with the game if you struggle against it.  I found that once I just decided not to care at all about the things that make zero sense but rather to move on from them and just not think about them, the rest of the game became more enjoyable.

[brytta.leofa]

c-elves are somehow genetically proud of their genetic inability to run in the desert

I'm no elf expert, and maybe I'm just repeating what's been said better in this thread, but I'd put it this way:

City elves are genetically proud of their genetic ability to run in the city, and the desert does not interest them.

[Marauder Moe]

Elves have a brain disease that makes this impossible.  This mental deformity also makes them fiercely, suicidally proud of abilities they don't have

Bingo.

- a trait, you would think, that would get weeded out pretty quick by natural selection on a world like Zalanthas.

In a world like Zalanthas, yes.

However, in a world like Allanak or Tuluk, no.  Your ability to acquire food in Allanak or Tuluk isn't strongly dependant on your ability to run or ride a mount.  It's depends on your ability to acquire coin.

[Bilanthri]

Your ability to acquire food in Allanak or Tuluk isn't strongly dependant on your ability to run or ride a mount.  It's depends on your ability to acquire coin.

I'm gonna have to agree with this, fringe c-elf hunters aside. The major source of economy for city elves should be the city.

I think what catches in my craw is the idea that a race as idealistically free as elves are so dramatically pigeon-holed into this rigid geographical mindset. I thought that was the sort of thing that made -dwarves- so unique.

[Dan]

Your ability to acquire food in Allanak or Tuluk isn't strongly dependant on your ability to run or ride a mount.  It's depends on your ability to acquire coin.

I'm gonna have to agree with this, fringe c-elf hunters aside. The major source of economy for city elves should be the city.

I think what catches in my craw is the idea that a race as idealistically free as elves are so dramatically pigeon-holed into this rigid geographical mindset. I thought that was the sort of thing that made -dwarves- so unique.

They aren't idealistically free. They are almost as bound by their pride in being able to run and steal, as a dwarf is to his focus.

An elf is to not riding, as a dwarf is to not abandoning his focus.

[Bilanthri]

Your ability to acquire food in Allanak or Tuluk isn't strongly dependant on your ability to run or ride a mount.  It's depends on your ability to acquire coin.

I'm gonna have to agree with this, fringe c-elf hunters aside. The major source of economy for city elves should be the city.

I think what catches in my craw is the idea that a race as idealistically free as elves are so dramatically pigeon-holed into this rigid geographical mindset. I thought that was the sort of thing that made -dwarves- so unique.

They aren't idealistically free. They are almost as bound by their pride in being able to run and steal, as a dwarf is to his focus.

An elf is to not riding, as a dwarf is to not abandoning his focus.

Hmm...I should have said, "bound to an idealism of freedom". You know, running, taking what's not yours, lying when it suits you...all reflections of a fervent sense of freedom. But, it's true that elves walk a fine line between reckless abandon and devout loyalty.

[spawnloser]

The adjective city denotes the city is their means of survival. To me, it doesn't seem strange that they've abandoned their tribal traditions of hunting and gathering when they safely settled into a city. Hm, a city elf ranger actually would be a burglar.

This is a good way to look at it.

...c-elves are somehow genetically proud of their genetic inability to run in the desert
<snip>
Elves have a brain disease that makes this impossible.  This mental deformity also makes them fiercely, suicidally proud of abilities they don't have - a trait, you would think, that would get weeded out pretty quick by natural selection on a world like Zalanthas.

This is not.  They are not "proud of their ability to run in the wilderness" but simply their "ability to run".

Also, actually, pick-pockets are the ones tracking their prey through the city, so they would be rangers/hunters while burglars would be rangers/scavengers for city elves.  It's a completely different mindset.  I hate to say it and sound superior, but if you think a c.elf (in the current incarnation) should be able to be a wilderness class, you don't understand the city elf mindset as well as others do.

Saying that, understand that I think the game would be better if there was no differentiation between the two at all, that they were one race that simply have homebases in different situations, but oh well.  In that situation, they'd have the same racial advantages but would still be limited by class, not by code but by policy.

[Thunkkin]

They are not "proud of their ability to run in the wilderness" but simply their "ability to run".

False distinction.  Their pride in their ability to run extends to their (lack of) ability to run in the desert.  If it didn't, they'd ride in the desert.

I hate to say it and sound superior, but if you think a c.elf (in the current incarnation) should be able to be a wilderness class, you don't understand the city elf mindset as well as others do.

I'm not saying they should be a wilderness race, necessarily.  I'm just saying that their refusal to ride when they cannot run is nonsensical.  Yes, it's a racial trait.  And as I said, I "accept" it and just play it.  But it doesn't make sense.  At all.

Saying that, understand that I think the game would be better if there was no differentiation between the two at all, that they were one race that simply have homebases in different situations, but oh well.  In that situation, they'd have the same racial advantages but would still be limited by class, not by code but by policy.

What you just wrote there is what makes sense to me.   The way it is, doesn't.  But as I clearly said, I accept it.  Some things don't make sense and it's better not to struggle against it.  My post was saying, "enjoy the game for what it is even if some things don't make sense."  I wasn't trying prove my case to an audience that obviously (by a 2 to 1 margin) disagrees with me.

[Spoon]

This is how I personally deal with the running thing: Elves are extremely proud, as we all know. They simply will not let themselves be carried by anything other than their own two feet. I've never looked at it as "I don't ride because I'm already awesome at running in the wilds", but rather "I don't ride because I'm too cool for school".

[Bilanthri]

The pride exhibited by c-elves in regard to running makes me think of the pride that people of Irish descent exhibit in regards to drinking.

The ability to drink large quantities of alcohol predominantly stemmed from the dark ages when the majority of Europeans produced light alcohols for daily consumption. The issue was ground water...drinking it could lead to a variety of potentially fatal illnesses, so brewing, fermenting, and, eventually, distilling, became requirements for healthy living. Even children consumed these light wines and beers, since their health was of the utmost importance.

So, 800 years ago, most Europeans had developed quite a tolerance for alcohol...it was an inevitable side-effect of adapting to this lifestyle. Do the Irish, scattered to the four corners of the globe, still possess a racial tolerance for drinking? Perhaps, though it would be a pale shadow of their, once indomitable, ability. And yet, in any "Irish" pub in the US, there are countless louts who drunkenly extol their supreme drinking ability, when, in comparison to their ancestors, they are light-weights.

[spawnloser]

They are not "proud of their ability to run in the wilderness" but simply their "ability to run".

False distinction.  Their pride in their ability to run extends to their (lack of) ability to run in the desert.  If it didn't, they'd ride in the desert.

I don't think so.  There is a difference, as Spoon said, between having pride in an ability and being too proud to do something.

[Delstro]

Considering that elves are considerably faster than humans.

Being a law-breaker by birth and having long legs when you are being chased by a heavily armored, short leg sounds like you would have pride in being able to run.

[spawnloser]

Just to note, since it hasn't been said recently, c.elves can run better than humans already.

[Delstro]

Since the C-Elves wouldn't:
Go from city to city
Benefit from evading the law on an inix.

They would benefit from:
Benefit from having a slow, unsuspecting prey.
Benefit from having long legs.

C-elves don't have to run across the city to escape the law (in Theory), they just have to get to that next set of two corners.