Pump your brakes. Yes. You.

[Dan]

There has been way too much talk of magickers, skills, what does what, and that sort of thing.

This needs to stop. I long for the days when almost -any- talk of magick on the GDB was taboo, let alone referencing some of the spells that are out there! We need to go back to that mentality. Watch what you say, if you have a question that comes close to encroaching on any of these subjects you should send in an email to the mud.

I've just noticed the attitude of the GDB becoming more lackadaisical, just putting this out there as my opinion.

[RogueGunslinger]

I agree.

[Gunnerblaster]

I agree.

[hyzhenhok]

I agree.

[Winterless]

I agree.

It goes in cycles though. There will be a thread about magickers and everyone once again gets all their butt-hurts about magickers off their chests and all is lollipops and puppy dogs again. Usually happens about one a year or so.

[evil_erdlu]

I can't feel the urge.. After seeing your profile picture, how can we say 'no'?

[AreteX]

I have to agree.

Its like a magic trick IRL.  People are amazed.  You're amazed.  "Wow, that was awesome!"

Then you find out about it, and it takes the mystery away.  You wanted to know about it, but when you found out, it dissapointed you.  Wished you had never even asked.

I've found out about some things that I never knew existed from reading random threads on the GDB.

[Akaramu]

On the plus side, all the recent magicker discussions seem to have motivated more people to play characters who don't befriend them openly, and act more in line with documentation.

[flurry]

The GDB seems to be experiencing skill fever recently.

[flurry]

I've found out about some things that I never knew existed from reading random threads on the GDB.

Almost eight years into the game, the GDB is still revealing game sekrits to me.  Someday maybe I'll catch up to the "common knowledge", but the boundaries are ever-expanding.

[DustMight]

I've found out about some things that I never knew existed from reading random threads on the GDB.

Almost eight years into the game, the GDB is still revealing game sekrits to me.  Someday maybe I'll catch up to the "common knowledge", but the boundaries are ever-expanding.

I'm so with you.  After years of playing I can't believe the shit that I still don't know that seems common to everyone else.  I also can't believe people are talkin....

[jstorrie]

The GDB seems to be experiencing skill fever recently.

A not-that-surprising side effect of all the Arm Reborn talk, I'd say.

[HailTheAbyss]

Another thing is, that not everyone has karma. It is kinda funny to see people treat magickers as some common, disposeable character type, and
read about abuses of the code by people playing them.

Makes me wonder about the karma system, it really does...

[jcarter]

Watch what you say, if you have a question that comes close to encroaching on any of these subjects you should send in an email to the mud.

I've just noticed the attitude of the GDB becoming more lackadaisical, just putting this out there as my opinion.

Because the people doing it don't want an answer. They're fishing for e-cred and trying to rile people up to push things in whatever direction they wish. Most of the time it's because it's impacting their character as well, which is all the more reason for it to go.

What I REALLY want is the smug, "oh HEH nice try but I know more about the code than you ever will" bullshit to stop. There's a few who can't seem to stop posting it in every single thread that relates to mechanics. We got it. You were once an imm. Congratulations.

[spawnloser]

jcarter, why do you assume someone must have been an IMM if they are certain that know more than you, or say that they are certain?  That's unfounded supposition, really.

One thing I have learned from asking questions of the staff is that just being on staff doesn't mean you know everything.  Some staff go out of their way to NOT learn things they don't need to know so that they can continue to play the game and still experience some of that wonder and joy that we players get when playing the game and finding something new in game.  Even for those that do seek the backdoor way to learning, from what I understand, a lot of the staff don't have access to everything anyway.

About the people saying, "I know more blah blah blah," though.  Some players have just played certain classes and done certain things a lot.  Some players recognize why opthers would believe something if somewhat experienced, but at the same time, recognize the errors in assumptions made.  Often enough the "I know more than you blah blah blah" comments are made only to try to get someone to reevaluate those assumptions and get them to calm down when they're bitching about something they just might not understand as well as they think they do.  Relax a bit, huh?  Would you rather they came out and said what was right (which we all know is incorrect behaivor)?  Would you rather have the GDB turn into one big bitch-fest that noone can answer because noone is allowed to say anything to the people that think they know what they're talking about but really don't?

[AmandaGreathouse]

Hate to say it, but I agree with spawnloser to a point. Not the snark, but the point.

As a specific example, one might look up the help file for forage and note its changes. This was driven by players sending in information to staff, who didn't actually realize some of the finer points of it.

In general, however, I can understand how one might be led to make any number of assumptions with regards to people who make comments about things like skill percentages and branching and the skills that classes get and the like.

[Dan]

In general, however, I can understand how one might be led to make any number of assumptions with regards to people who make comments about things like skill percentages and branching and the skills that classes get and the like.

Which are the same comments I don't like to see, whether someone knows them to be fact or not. Without those comments, people wouldn't be making any assumptions. 

[AmandaGreathouse]

I, too, would rather not see them, but was choosing to try and speak as non-negatively as I could on the subject. Apparently it was a bit ambiguous, so to clarify: Yeah, I'd really rather not see things like that. For a whole host of my own reasons.

[Ampere]

If you see something you feel is in breach of the rules then file a complaint.

[musashi]

If you see something you feel is in breach of the rules then file a complaint.

This. The snark and hyprocracy annoys me far more than the odd comment and game mechanics.

[Synthesis]

If you see something you feel is in breach of the rules then file a complaint.

This. The snark and hyprocracy annoys me far more than the odd comment and game mechanics.

Hypocracy? Is that rule by the hypocrites, or the hypochondriacs?

JOKING

[musashi]

Yez yez, typing on iPhone leads to lots and lots of typos 

[jhunter]

If you see something you feel is in breach of the rules then file a complaint.

This. The snark and hyprocracy annoys me far more than the odd comment and game mechanics.

Heh, yeah trust in the staff to take care of things. If they miss something you believe should be brought to their attention, then do so. Most of the time I don't think that people cross the line in regards to game mechanics and the few times it does happen, it usually gets editted by the staff and a warning sent to the poster.

[Dan]

The point of the post isn't that there are times where it's caught and dealt with.

The point is that there is a trend of people pushing that line further out, and lately it's become more noticeable. Im just suggesting a little more discretion be taken on the part of people taking up discussion in these kinds of things. It is all too easy to ruin the mystery for some people who have yet to experience some of the great things this game has to offer. Just because you take it for granted that something is well known doesn't mean it is so.

Maybe the title of this thread came off backhanded, but that isn't the intent. Nor am I trying to take on the job of the moderators. Im asking the people who frequent the GDB to use a little more caution before posting something, please. It's for the good of the game is all.

One example being: Want to know why I was scared of magaickers when I was new to Armageddon? It was because I knew -nothing- about them, there wasn't one clue to be had from the GDB because people didn't talk about that part of the game, it wasn't accepted. It's easy to fear the unknown. Now it seems everywhere, give the people new to this game a chance to experience that fear and hand-shaking intensity like you once did.

[jhunter]

Sorry Dan, I understand what you are saying but it has never been against the rules to talk about magick/magickers. It has only been against the rules to speak specifics. You make it sound as if people are out of line to discuss magick/magickers, -at all-. If I'm mistaken then I apologize.

[Qzzrbl]

Pretty much the only two things I've learned about magickers from the GDB are:

A) Those bastards skill up quickly.

B) They can OMGWTFPWN you with their retarded coded power-- even the elementalists that don't seem all that bad at first.

I haven't learned any well-hidden secrets, most anything I've ever seen about them I could have easily found out from reading their respective docs.

I'm still afraid of them OOCly and ICly.

[Jingo]

I learned of the existence of space vestrics. Seriously wish I didn't know that.

But honestly, I have learned a few things on the GDB, I wish I learned in game. Even like the existence of one or more secret groups.

[LoD]

Sorry Dan, I understand what you are saying but it has never been against the rules to talk about magick/magickers. It has only been against the rules to speak specifics. You make it sound as if people are out of line to discuss magick/magickers, -at all-. If I'm mistaken then I apologize.

There's a tendency for people who post about magick or skills to feel they're being fairly non-specific, and are probably keeping to the spirit of the forum rules.  One of the issues though, is that often there's a group of people that bring the discussion as close to the borderline as possible without their individual post breaking any rules.  However, when you read through the multiple posts and multiple threads, it's really not that difficult to discern a few facts that weren't overt in any one single post, but become obvious when taken as a whole.

And Dan is saying there seems to be a current surge in these type of borderline discussions on skills, magick, and other areas of the game where he, and perhaps others, would like to read the thread or debate without sacrificing their ignorance of certain mechanics.  The veteran player that has learned these secrets is much more likely to treat somewhat specific details as generalities, simply because they've played a given class so many times that it seems impossible (to them) for someone not to have made the same assumptions, and I think that's where a lot of the issues can spawn.

I've been guilty of it myself, so I don't think there's any harm in being reminded that not everyone knows everything or has assumed everything, and that having something revealed to them through a string of semi-factual posts can sometimes inadvertently ruin the mystery of the game for people -- new and old.

-LoD

[Oleupata]

However, when you read through the multiple posts and multiple threads, it's really not that difficult to discern a few facts that weren't overt in any one single post, but become obvious when taken as a whole.

... and that having something revealed to them through a string of semi-factual posts can sometimes inadvertently ruin the mystery of the game for people -- new and old.

This is most true. Further, these manner of posts or post-groups are extremely difficult to moderate, as no one person overstepped the bounds.

[Lizzie]

Sometimes there are complaints about "this" being true, or "that" being their experience, or "the other thing" being a complaint, or question. And you know that the only way to answer the quesiton, or address a concern, or calm a frustration, is to divulge IC info. Or to say "this is IC info, but you're wrong. I can't tell you why." And thus, piss off whoever addresses it, and anyone else who thinks you're being a real snarky dork (which you are - if you can't answer a question, don't answer it. It's not rocket surgery )

[Jingo]

Even a couple of posts as recent as today let slip a bit of info I should not have known.

Come on people!

[Sinna]

This has always bothered me.  I'm a very old-time player of Armageddon and know surprisingly little about the Known World / how the Code operates.  I don't know if this is because my expertise is limited to a very small area or because I'm not observant or because I'm the type that gets so immersed in the RP that I don't really pay much attention to anything else.

But I will say that I've learned (unfortunately) more about the world / code from reading the GDB than playing the game.

I understand it is difficult to strictly moderate all the posts and also that players WANT to talk about the game they love so much, but it does suck to have something revealed that I didn't know before.

I also understand that something the poster knows might seem like common knowledge when in fact it is not.  Example: I was once accused of taking advantage of a combat bug (years ago) but I had know knowledge of said bug.  Obviously the player was pissed that I would use OOC knowledge to my advantage but in reality, he revealed it to me by posting about it on the GDB.

Another example, in which I am at fault - I posted what was to me very common knowledge but was in reality super-secret.  Luckily that was moderated pretty quickly.

I'm not sure of a solution.  I suppose that why it's best to maintain a good seperation of OOC/IC.

That said - once a character has discovered that a certain food-item is poison, will their other characters - when given the opportunity - try it?  Or will each one of them find an excuse to avoid it?  Is that realistic? 

[Agent_137]

That said - once a character has discovered that a certain food-item is poison, will their other characters - when given the opportunity - try it?  Or will each one of them find an excuse to avoid it?  Is that realistic?  

When reasonable, i try to make sure my characters have a background that matches my OOC knowledge. If I make a new ranger, I give him a good decade already spent wandering the world. If I make a new magicker, I put his manifestation a good decade in the past. So, story wise, RP wise, he spent the first 10 years doing things that would give him the same knowledge I have OOCly, and then when I start playing he spends it doing other things, like getting better at FIREBALL OF DOOM or BOW SHOT OF AWESOME.

But if I roll a city-bred and city-bound servant who is barely 14 years old. . . shit no he won't recognize something as poison even if I know it OOCly.



p.s.
if you really want spoilers . . . read all the help files!

p.s.s.
the GDB really isn't worth reading, IMHO, especially for new players. I'm just do because it allows me to play vicariously through you guys even when I don't have time to actually log in. It should be discouraged, especially with the new helper chat we have.

[Saellyn]

I could never start a char from 10 years in the past. I'd be dying a lot. "YEAH I GOT SKILLZ" *Mantis Head*

[Agent_137]

players of older characters just have to be *gasp* creative about what they spent their time doing besides skilling up. It's not hard. for a ranger just study the new flower helpfiles and say your character spent years studying plants in the wild, and as a result he knows all the names and effects of every plant on sight.