How about a Karma System change?

[Nyr]

I moved some "warehouse thread" posts on "karma" to this thread.

I believe Karma is flawed. It should be all or nothing. Why does a sorcerer require more trust to play than a krathi? I think you're either trusted enough to keep the documentation, and the best interest of the game in mind, or you're not. Why is someone trusted enough to play a Mul, not trusted enough to play a psion or sorc?

I believe this principle makes Karma seem like a sytem used not to show trust, but to give players a goal or let them set their sights on a sort of achievement. Obviously that's not the case, but it's the only real justification I can give.

In such a richly detailed playing environment as the world of Zalanthas, which is very different to most game settings most players will have encountered, there must be some degree of control over which players get to play which roles. The alternative (and this _has_ happened in the past) is that we have a lot of people going around playing races and guilds very badly (i.e., nowhere near what the game's creators intended). Karma is one way in which the staff members exercise this control.

Karma is simply a measure of trust that the staff members have in a given player's:

Degree of maturity and responsibility as a role-player, as evidenced by playing roles 'realistically.'
Knowledge of the game world, and an appreciation of the way in which the various races, guilds, and so on, interact.
Role-playing skill, as evidenced by role-playing in such a way as to show that they are really involved in the game world, and also enriching the game world for other players.

Karma is not an end in itself. Acquiring karma points is not something you should be 'striving towards' as a player; the fun that you get out of role-playing your character should be the primary reward in itself.

[Ashes]

Some stuff Nyr said.

Inspiring conviction by Gunslinger.

Some more stuff Nyr said.

Karma is simply a measure of trust that the staff members have in a given player's:

Degree of maturity and responsibility as a role-player, as evidenced by playing roles 'realistically.'
Knowledge of the game world, and an appreciation of the way in which the various races, guilds, and so on, interact.
Role-playing skill, as evidenced by role-playing in such a way as to show that they are really involved in the game world, and also enriching the game world for other players.

Karma is not an end in itself. Acquiring karma points is not something you should be 'striving towards' as a player; the fun that you get out of role-playing your character should be the primary reward in itself.

That really stands out to me as part of the karma mechanism.

[Akaramu]

Karma is not an end in itself. Acquiring karma points is not something you should be 'striving towards' as a player; the fun that you get out of role-playing your character should be the primary reward in itself.

I have to say, though, that since I have a considerable amount of karma I am overall enjoying my time logged into the game much more, for one important reason: I can, fairly often, play roles that don't need to rely on other players being logged in. My most convenient time for playing is severe offpeak with less than 20 players in the world. If I was stuck with mundane roles, I'd have to keep doing what killed my warrior/bard role for me... huge amounts of tavern idling, or messing up my sleep schedule by getting online at 4 AM my time.

In short: karma roles might be almost required for some offpeak players to get the most fun out of the game.

Please note I can't play rangers because I have no direction sense, neither IC nor OOC.  

[Lizzie]

I have to say, though, that since I have a considerable amount of karma I am overall enjoying my time logged into the game much more, for one important reason: I can, fairly often, play roles that don't need to rely on other players being logged in.

I just want to respond to that part.

I think you have the cause:effect backward. You have karma, BECAUSE you have proven that you can enjoy playing (responsibly) without relying on other players being logged in. It isn't that you do it because you have karma. It's that you have karma because you do it.

[Akaramu]

I don't agree, Lizzie. I got all except 1 of my karma playing social roles dependant on other PCs, and before I even started really getting into elaborate solo RP. My warrior bard, who earned some kama, did nothing except sit / idle in taverns or slack away in his hammock (mostly because there was no one to spar with for many ingame years). I even got emails from puzzled staff who noticed this, and wondered if I was having fun.  

[Nyr]

I was wondering if anyone would notice I just copied and pasted that from the website...

[musashi]

No one pays attention to you Nyr  

[Aaron Goulet]

I think that once people get over the "ooh, shiny" stage of having magicker karma, they're more inclined to broaden their role selections.  The next role I'm planning on playing is very much mundane.

[Lizzie]

Heh not me. I only play mundanes now, so the staff doesn't get pissed at me for constantly trying mages. I will keep trying mages til I get it right!

[AmandaGreathouse]

I've played a good bit of both. Sometimes you like one, sometimes you like another. And sometimes you want both.

[Akaramu]

I would totally love mundane roles if I could play different hours. They're still fun, sometimes, if I get lucky - like I did with a very active offpeak Byn back in 2004. But it's a lottery.

[janeshephard]

I think that once people get over the "ooh, shiny" stage of having magicker karma, they're more inclined to broaden their role selections.  The next role I'm planning on playing is very much mundane.

In my limited experience, all the sponsored roles, and karma roles are more difficult to play. I haven't played a sorcerer yet but I can imagine how difficult it must be when everything is out to get you and you start a nublet

[Agent_137]

i just want to point out that I gave up my magicker karma in the great karma off of '07 and still haven't asked for it back even though they said we could.

<--- hardcore

[FantasyWriter]

i just want to point out that I gave up my magicker karma in the great karma off of '07 and still haven't asked for it back even though they said we could.

<--- hardcore

But you don't play any more so that doesn't count.

[Agent_137]

it's not my fault Valve keeps making good games and that my current mundane is too badass to retire. Sigh. I just need to man-up and do it. The thrill of a challenge is often enough to make me play for a few months at least. maybe that's my problem, i ran out of challenge. ok back on topic:

I agree with Nyr, BUT the immortals need to learn to say NO to someone apping a role that there are too many of already, even if they have the karma for it. We had a big problem with this in the past (hence the great karma-off of '07) and I haven't played enough in awhile to notice if it's gotten better or worse.

Every karma app should be checked against the number in the world and the average amount of playtime those players are putting in on a weekly basis. The data is there it's just a matter of putting it together (which they may already have, and they may already do this. if so, good job imms you are great)

[spawnloser]

How do you know the data is easily mined?  Just because it is there doesn't mean that they have the means to extract the information in a usable fashion.

[Aaron Goulet]

How do you know the data is easily mined?  Just because it is there doesn't mean that they have the means to extract the information in a usable fashion.

I wonder if they could implement a command like this:

> tally guild sorcerer

195 sorcerers have been active within the past thirty days.

[Agent_137]

How do you know the data is easily mined?  Just because it is there doesn't mean that they have the means to extract the information in a usable fashion.

I didn't mean to say that it was easily mined. When i said, "it's just a matter of putting it together," i meant "the only work involved would be related to the data mining process or automation there-of."