Byn fees

[Gagula]

I'd like to comment on the point of Byn not being grebbers.

While this is true, remember, Runners are not Byn yet.

I think this is an interesting concept, X-D.

Maybe it's because I was playing during the time when the Byn was still Krrx's baby that I kept to the rules so much.  Krrx's rules (and he was pretty much a hardass) were my way or the highway type deal.

I'm sure it would benefit the Byn (and the rest of the playerbase, really) if some of the rules were relaxed or changed for the purpose of playability.. again, I don't really know anything about the current situation at all, if things have changed since I last played a Byn leader.

Or, as some people suggest, just have the character do it IC'ly and take the consequences that come.  But Salt Merchant has a good point - if it's a matter of having to break the rules all the time, that means the rules no longer fit the IG realities and why would any organization maintain such rules if that's the case?

Sounds a bit like politics, neh?

But in all seriousness, I've always thought of even Runners as full-fledged Byn, just the lowest rung on the ladder if you will.  Even if they leave after their year, they're still part of the whole.
As for mercenaries being poor, that's unrealistic, especially for one that has been named a vital part of Allanak, let alone is allowed to run around in aba's similar to that of the militia.  No, they may not have silks like fancy pants Borsail, but they aren't running around in rags; they have armor and weapons to suit them.  Maybe the Runners shouldn't get paid every job, but to not get paid at all?  Really, would you in RL go to a group, pay good money, lay your life on the line, and not get shit for it?  Me thinks not.  The only viable solution is for more PC interaction and more importantly, PC psuedo necesitation.  Ok, so maybe your hunters don't need help taking down a silt horror...but why not play it safe and send in the hired help?  Even if it's a flat rate that you have to pay, you're still better off for it.

[Xeran Van Houten]

errmm... no, not sure how you managed to form those conceptions about runners, but they are by far the most common misconception.

[musashi]

Maybe the Runners shouldn't get paid every job, but to not get paid at all?  Really, would you in RL go to a group, pay good money, lay your life on the line, and not get shit for it?  Me thinks not. 

I can't help but be reminded of basic training during military service ... 
Or the 4 years after that, really ...

[Uberskaapie]

Who said runners aren't getting anything? They get as much food as they can eat, a safe place to sleep, and training supervised by Sergeants ('real' soldiers). I think runners should learn that ICly, they're 100% replaceable part of the Byn. They're probably -expected- not to last the first year and even then, they might not stick around.

And I'd say if runners aren't poor, they should be. Their armor should be piecemeal or none at all, certainly they should be able to afford any matchy matchy bullsh. They've got cloaks, yeah but they're probably the cheapest cloak possible. Where do runners get coins for beer and hoes? Why is that the Byn's problem? They put food on your table. You want some extra spending bread- earn it. "Showing up" won't cut it.

I don't envy the sergeant job at all, but this all really makes me want to play a bynner from the ground up.

[hyzhenhok]

When you feel sorry for runners, remember that both the PC and the player voluntarily entered that position. 300 'sid is a lot of money; people wouldn't join the Byn haphazardly or out of desperation. The only difficulty here is when newbies are steered towards the Byn without knowing what they're getting into.

Runners pay 300 'sid, a year of freedom, and the promise to risk their lives when the sergeant asks them on contract.

Runners recieve unlimited food, water (yes, this has been changed recently), security and shelter, a year's worth of military training, the opportunity to buy cheap armor from the Byn's overstock, and the opportunity to become a trooper at the end of their year.

The biggest challenge for Byn sergeants is making sure that the opportunity to become a trooper is seen as valuable. Luckily, there is a strong player willingness to roleplay out virtual barriers to employment that do not actually exist IG. As long as people are willing to join the Byn for RP reasons even though Kurac, Tor, AoD, etc all offer better perks and would probably hire you out of a desire for more PC personnel, the Byn is safe (in the long term).

Frankly, the viability of the Byn lends a huge commendation to the player base as whole, both for those who join the Byn and for those that hire them.

[Qzzrbl]

When you feel sorry for runners, remember that both the PC and the player voluntarily entered that position. 300 'sid is a lot of money; people wouldn't join the Byn haphazardly or out of desperation.

All of my desperate 'Rinthi, joined-the-Byn-for-unlimited-food-and-water-and-shelter characters would beg to disagree with the bolded....

[Salt Merchant]

To me, the key conceptual problem is Runners being taken out on dangerous contracts. Out of any gaggle of Runners, some will have only just begun training, many will be only half-equipped, and the rest not all that well trained either. Yet they're called upon to fight horrific monster X or terrible monster invasion Y.

It's like being hauled out of basic training to fight in a war now and then.

If Runners were to be kept under wraps, so to speak, until they've served their year, the Byn might be stronger as a whole. They'd still get to go out, on the Sergeant's whim, but for grebbing, hunting and maybe sedate escort contracts for the more senior Runners.

[Morrolan]

It's been maybe six months since I've interacted with a bynner, so I may be off base here. I'd like to see a perception change. In my mind, Bynners as a social class are just the tiniest step above beggars.

I do think you're way off base here.

Bynners have their own, player-driven (much less stereotyped) culture that has been developed by many players over the course of years and years.  The PCs are criminals, killers, soldiers, thugs, half-giants, halfbreeds, northerners, southerners, and elves all in the same space.  It does not work because the Commander says so.  It does not work because the sarge is a hardass.  It works because

• a) there's a certain anti-hero/Black Company quality to the Byn.
• b) the Byn matches and reinforces the "might makes right" attitude of much of Allanak, which makes them higher status in some ways
• c) (never forget) players find it fun,

The suggestion that the Byn should be made more one-dimensionally "gritty" is an aesthetic decision; one divorced from the recognition that there are players behind the characters.  It just comes off as "you should role play this way" not "we should role-play this way."

To which I answer a resounding no.

Morrolan

[Vessol]

To me, the key conceptual problem is Runners being taken out on dangerous contracts. Out of any gaggle of Runners, some will have only just begun training, many will be only half-equipped, and the rest not all that well trained either. Yet they're called upon to fight horrific monster X or terrible monster invasion Y.

It's like being hauled out of basic training to fight in a war now and then.

If Runners were to be kept under wraps, so to speak, until they've served their year, the Byn might be stronger as a whole. They'd still get to go out, on the Sergeant's whim, but for grebbing, hunting and maybe sedate escort contracts for the more senior Runners.

I found out that if you took an experienced Runner out on a contract that entitled actual danger and thus fun RP, they were much more likely to stay in the Byn and become active Troopers or not to just disappear then say Amos Bynner who stays in the compound all the time and might be allowed to go out on a grebbing or escort mission. I think there has to be an acceptance of making the game fun for all, even if IC it makes little sense.

[Uberskaapie]

Re: Morrolan

You're right, and you've convinced me of everything you said. However, the main point I was trying (and failing) to make is that I wish the Allanaki "Might Makes Right" meritocracy you describe was extended to the divvying up of contract shares instead of trying to make contract "worth it" to the runners.

[Synthesis]

Re: Morrolan

You're right, and you've convinced me of everything you said. However, the main point I was trying (and failing) to make is that I wish the Allanaki "Might Makes Right" meritocracy you describe was extended to the divvying up of contract shares instead of trying to make contract "worth it" to the runners.

Uh, it is.

I had a warrior who could give even the Sergeants a run for their money in less than 2 IC months as a Runner, and I always got paid well.

[hyzhenhok]

When you feel sorry for runners, remember that both the PC and the player voluntarily entered that position. 300 'sid is a lot of money; people wouldn't join the Byn haphazardly or out of desperation.

All of my desperate 'Rinthi, joined-the-Byn-for-unlimited-food-and-water-and-shelter characters would beg to disagree with the bolded....

There are some IC justifications I can see for 'rinthers who run southside to join the Byn, but desperation for food and water despite being able to afford the entry fee is not one of them.

[Delstro]

I got tired of reading the same two pages over and over so I stopped reading.

If you are having a hard time finding contracts, go to another city.

When I had a Bynn Lieutenant(And I had about 15k in the bank that I made only from contracts), this is how I set up my pay scheme.
I would charge 100 coins per day, per head as a starting price. With a minimum of three heads.
I would allow a good barterer to knock the price down to 80 per head, per day.

So, if woodcutter Bob wanted a ride to Luir's, he'd say he wants four heads, for one day. Price set at 400.
He couldn't afford 400, so he dropped it to three heads.
As a Lieutenant, I would pay for the mounts. Three mounts for 60 coins. We would ride to Luir's, and ride back.
At the end of the day, we would finish with 240 coins.
One Lieutenant(three shares), one Trooper(one share), one good, productive Recruit(half share), and one or one and a half shares for the Company.
240/6= 40. I would receive 120 coins, a trooper would receive 40 coins, the recruit would receive 20 coins, and the Company would get 60.
If the recruit was a dumbass and liability the entire time, their share would go to the trooper.

Now, if I wanted to see how a trooper handles the missions, I would go as an observer and give the lead trooper two shares. I never told them I was only observing, but I have a feeling they understood.

You just need to figure out what you need to make the mission profitable for you and then figure out the rest of the price.

[Clearsighted]

The Byn has never needed water. You don't get dehydrated in the cities anyways. And it's not hard filling up a barrel with some pisswater.

All it's ever really needed, was a place to keep mounts. Because tickets get lost, and a lot of runners can't be trusted with them. Funnily enough, the Byn had an outpost that did have a corral, which I always thought, for that fact alone, would make it a real nice place for a unit to stay. But people would inevitably get bored being up there alone, and eventually die riding between there and Allanak (and they'd have to stable in Allanak anyways).

[Qzzrbl]

When you feel sorry for runners, remember that both the PC and the player voluntarily entered that position. 300 'sid is a lot of money; people wouldn't join the Byn haphazardly or out of desperation.

All of my desperate 'Rinthi, joined-the-Byn-for-unlimited-food-and-water-and-shelter characters would beg to disagree with the bolded....

There are some IC justifications I can see for 'rinthers who run southside to join the Byn, but desperation for food and water despite being able to afford the entry fee is not one of them.

Well, think of it this way.

A 'rinther could come upon three small and keep himself fed for a year.... Or he could join the Byn and keep himself fed for a lifetime. Hell, he's just as likely to get stabbed in 'Rinth as he is getting eaten on a contract. -shrug-