KILLKILLKILL!!!

[X-D]

Have to say, I don't trust approximately 78% of y'all. Sad but true. This is why when I do play I pretty much avoid any and all authority figures until they have definitively proven themselves. (Same goes for hooded figures.)

Specialy Newplars.

Been burned every single time I've ignored my own rule on that matter.

X-D's rule of newplars.
Do not interact with them until they have been around at least 1 RL month and active.

[Rhyden]

Newplars, I like it.

Have to say, I don't trust approximately 78% of y'all. Sad but true. This is why when I do play I pretty much avoid any and all authority figures until they have definitively proven themselves. (Same goes for hooded figures.)

The problem with this is there needs to be a mutual trust for any continuous plotlines to go down between players. And I wouldn't call spamwalking past authority figures 'avoiding them', even if it is successful.

X-D's rule of newplars.
Do not interact with them until they have been around at least 1 RL month and active.

I don't like this. I don't think you should be basing any characters dependent on OOC factors such as how long they've been active.

Also, give Templars a break. They usually have to bust their balls creating plots for everyone else. And the role isn't very rewarding. If you think you could play a 'newplar' or even a half-decent Templar, I implore you. No, I encourage you. Go make one and see if you're any better than the rest.

[Rhyden]

Sorry, I got a bit derailed.

I -always- try to avoid killing someone unless completely utterly necessary. I haven't personally PK'd anyone since 2004ish, come to think of it.

There are so many ways to screw with a character other than killing them. So many!!!

[Gimfalisette]

The problem with this is there needs to be a mutual trust for any continuous plotlines to go down between players. And I wouldn't call spamwalking past authority figures 'avoiding them', even if it is successful.

No, I mean, I don't go in their taverns and I don't hang out with their aides and I don't join their clans and I don't do business with them. I actively avoid contact, because in my experience, authority figures are more trouble than they are worth. Do I wish this was not true? Oh yes, I do. But it has been true. And, I have done my share of leading and being-the-change and all that, but that isn't always feasible or desirable.

I think it's better for us players to be honest about what makes us avoid other PCs, past and present, than try to sweep the problem of trust under the rug of "but you should just trust." Trust is an earned quantity, and for the most part, the playerbase does not earn it.

Circling back to the topic, overzealousness in PKing as a trend reduces trust. And reduced trust means reduced interaction, which means an impoverished game.

[Ziya]

As a staffer, I've noticed that death seems to be a very common solution to people's problems.  Amos hates Malik, so Amos kills Malik.  Jack the Elf steals something from Bob the Bynner, so Bob kills Jack.  Rinther Jane insults Lady Fancypants, so Lady Fancypants has Jane killed.  Lord Templar Hardass hates Lord Silkybottom, so Hardass kills Silkybottom.  Red Moon the Soh wants that awesome sword that Big Dummy half-giant has, so Red Moon kills Big Dummy.  You get the idea.

Yes, death is one solution.  However, it is not the only solution, and I'd like to encourage players to get creative with their hatred and revenge.  Perhaps death is too good for that thorn in your side, hmm?  Here are a few other viable options:

--Find a way to use your enemy, directly or indirectly.  There is always a way to turn the situation around to your advantage and his disadvantage.  It's just a matter of finding it.  Manipulate them, their friends, family, anybody they know into serving your desires.

--Make them miserable by tormenting them.  Sometimes the occasional torment is satisfying, but sometimes it's more gratifying to be relentless about it.  This can be especially effective when your enemy doesn't realize that you are their enemy, because they don't realize that you're doing what you're doing to torment them.

--Ruin your enemy's reputation.  This is especially effective in high society.  Bringing shame upon someone when image is crucial can strike a tremendous blow, and do all sorts of damage.  Turn their friends/family/coworkers against them.

--Steal from your enemy.  Take anything and everything you can from them, whether it be material possessions, relationships, their dignity, and so on.  Maybe they know it's you who's robbing them.  Maybe they don't, and you can sit back and laugh from the shadows while they lose.

By leaving your enemy alive, you open the doors to so much more fun and interesting roleplay for both you and your nemeses.

These seem effective options if you are playing in Tuluk. But I don't think that Red Moon the Soh is going to get that fancy sword of Big Dummy's that he likes so much, by hiring a bard to make bad poetry about him.

[Cutthroat]

I don't think that Red Moon the Soh is going to get that fancy sword of Big Dummy's that he likes so much, by hiring a bard to make bad poetry about him.

You're probably right about that, but there are plenty of solutions available to everyone.

In most cases, when person A wants what person B has, person A doesn't kill person B for it. Person A finds some way to acquire it, that might leave person B at a disadvantage (from having lost the item, and possibly from having been shaken up or injured during a raid). What makes you think the plea here is to replace murder with reputation tarnishing specifically?

[jhunter]

Circling back to the topic, overzealousness in PKing/spamfleeing as a trend reduces trust. And reduced trust means reduced interaction, which means an impoverished game.

Fixed.

[Twilight]

These seem effective options if you are playing in Tuluk. But I don't think that Red Moon the Soh is going to get that fancy sword of Big Dummy's that he likes so much, by hiring a bard to make bad poetry about him.

Um, one is an elf.  One is a half-giant.  Immediate obvioius IC preferred solution on the method of acquiring said sword for anyone in the elf mindset.  I disdain elves (yes, D-Elves too) that think the "killing" method of "stealing" is anything other than the least preferred and least respect gaining solution.

I'm all for creative solutions than PK.  Of course, I also think Zalanthas is messed, having so many drama queens that get upset over a look.

[Case]

I wouldn't even consider killing a PC unless I knew that I'm likely to die as a result from not doing so. This only holds true if I make the decision though, if shit's going down and somebody breaks all bounds of belief to get away, damn right I'll kill 'em somehow

[X-D]

I don't like this. I don't think you should be basing any characters dependent on OOC factors such as how long they've been active.

Too bad. I and many others do.

Sadly a new templar is usually a new templar player.

And though the PC is not technicly new, it takes new players a while to settle in. They jump the gun on things, they use too much code without understanding what can happen, they tend to ignore options. They tend to be over zealous and impatient.

Every one of those things can bite a non-templar PC and usually does.

And you should be happy that many of us do avoid newplars . Because Many of us that do are perfectly capable of snuffing out said PCs. I leave them be, let them settle in and let staff keep a watch over them for that month or so.

Normaly staff or stupidity will deal with it if they are a problem and often inside 4-6 weeks.

Of course, I also avoid all apped leaders for a good 2-3 weeks. They don't need to be avoided as long as newplars since they have much less coded power and are easier to murder.

[mansa]

The only coded thing* I can do to your characters, that is harmful, is killing them.

When that is changed, there will be less murders.




*coded without immortal intervention.

[brytta.leofa]

The only coded thing* I can do to your characters, that is harmful, is killing them.

There's a cosmetic thing you can do.

[Twilight]

The only coded thing* I can do to your characters, that is harmful, is killing them.

Incorrect.  Remedial Byn re-training for Mansa.

[X-D]

The only coded thing* I can do to your characters, that is harmful, is killing them.

More then byn retraining, I can think of at least 12 coded, harmful things that do not require staff help.

[Rhyden]

I don't like this. I don't think you should be basing any characters dependent on OOC factors such as how long they've been active.

And though the PC is not technicly new, it takes new players a while to settle in. They jump the gun on things, they use too much code without understanding what can happen, they tend to ignore options. They tend to be over zealous and impatient.

Of course, I also avoid all apped leaders for a good 2-3 weeks. They don't need to be avoided as long as newplars since they have much less coded power and are easier to murder.

That's pretty discouraging, X-D. Let me use a quote and a small blurb to explain why.

Circling back to the topic, overzealousness in PKing/spamfleeing  as a trend reduces trust. And reduced trust means reduced interaction, which means an impoverished game.

If you want to avoid newplars, or new clan leaders, simply on the basis that they are new, go ahead. It's only you who will miss out. Some characters have more power than others, but like all things in Armageddon, power balanced itself out. If you have a newplar killing every single character who goes out of their way to not avoid them, players are going to avoid the templar anyways. All I'm saying is give leaders a chance - you may be surprised.

I think avoiding a clan leader (who can kill people) because they are new, is similar to avoiding a new player who doesn't understand code mechanics of the game.

[Gimfalisette]

All I'm saying is give leaders a chance - you may be surprised.

I think avoiding a clan leader (who can kill people) because they are new, is similar to avoiding a new player who doesn't understand code mechanics of the game.

I give leaders a chance, but it's a very wary chance. If they show telltale signs of being power-abusive or just poor players, I'm outta there and it's unlikely I'll ever regret it. But if I can tell they're an awesome player, then they may even find themselves with a new aide/crafter/hunter/soldier once my current PC bites it.

And avoiding clan leaders is nothing like avoiding newbies. Newbies can't do anything to me; the balance of power is totally in my favor.

[mansa]

The only coded thing* I can do to your characters, that is harmful, is killing them.

More then byn retraining, I can think of at least 12 coded, harmful things that do not require staff help.

What else is there?

I can think of:
Removal of Character
Removal of Items on Character


/Political Harm isn't coded.
//Immortal Intervention can remove limbs / forcibly add scars / remove skills / lower skills / etc

[Lizzie]

I think avoiding a clan leader (who can kill people) because they are new, is similar to avoiding a new player who doesn't understand code mechanics of the game.

I disagree, because for the most part, a new player can't kill people right out of the box. A clan leader (who can kill people) can, by definition, kill people. Right out of the box. A templar not only can, but has the coded IC authority to do so, and there's nothing you can do to prevent it. You generally can't even defend yourself against it, because if you try the NPC soldiers will auto-gank you.

With a new player who logs in and types "kill man" just because he doesn't know any better, HE is the one most likely to be dead as a result of his hasty mistake.

If a new templar is playing around with his commands, you're the one who ends up dead. Not him.

Also I've seen the more over-zealot type newplars aplenty in the past couple of years. In fact, the vast majority of templars I've seen, have been far more eager to instigate, initiate, manipulate, or otherwise cause coded combat, when they've been brand new out of chargen. The vast majority of those that do this, who -also- make it past their first couple of weeks, tend to calm down dramatically.

From the southern templars who can't wait to order all subdue elf, knowing damned well that the elf just came in from the desert and probably doesn't have his nosave on..

to the northern templar who's chomping at the bit to order his newly-assigned legion crew out on a friendly bahamet hunt..

It seems a trend, that they do this from the start, and gradually chill out as they get into their roles as leaders. As a result, it is pretty much a no-brainer that if you don't want to be a templar's first victim, then stay the fuck out of their way until they've got at least a few weeks of time into the game.

[Rhyden]

I think avoiding a clan leader (who can kill people) because they are new, is similar to avoiding a new player who doesn't understand code mechanics of the game.

I disagree, because for the most part, a new player can't kill people right out of the box. A clan leader (who can kill people) can, by definition, kill people. Right out of the box. A templar not only can, but has the coded IC authority to do so, and there's nothing you can do to prevent it. You generally can't even defend yourself against it, because if you try the NPC soldiers will auto-gank you.

I'll give you that. A newplar is vastly different from a newbie. I think it's just similar mentality. "I'm going to avoid this player, not because of their personality, not because of their physical appearance, nor their power-craving mind, but because their character is new."

Yeah, you have to be careful around new players with coded benefits, but avoiding them entirely based on an OOC fact just seems unfair to me.

[KankWhisperer]

The only coded thing* I can do to your characters, that is harmful, is killing them.

When that is changed, there will be less murders.




*coded without immortal intervention.

Agreed.
Are we all being forced to be Dr Evil here? Let's leave them in an easily escapable situation and just assume they are dead after we tell them our entire plan.

[Gimfalisette]

Yeah, you have to be careful around new players with coded benefits, but avoiding them entirely based on an OOC fact just seems unfair to me.

The burden of proving themselves is totally on the player with more power in the situation. It's like parenting; if you're my kid, it's not your job to somehow make me act loving (or at least not abusive) toward you. That's my job, because I'm the one with all the power and authority in the situation.

[Twilight]

I cannot think of 12 permanent, change-your-pfile type coded things I could do.

I can think of many temporary things.

I can think of many permanent things outside of the pfile.

[Fathi]

I cannot think of 12 permanent, change-your-pfile type coded things I could do.

I can think of many temporary things.

I can think of many permanent things outside of the pfile.

Well, I've seen scars for missing eyes, missing ears, and missing fingers... that's a start!

[Yam]

I cannot think of 12 permanent, change-your-pfile type coded things I could do.

I can think of many temporary things.

I can think of many permanent things outside of the pfile.

He said coded, harmful things. Not permanent things.

However, there are several permanent damaging things that can be inflicted codedly without the assistance of staff.

[titansfan]

Ummm, why avoid anyone? That is completely defeating the point of getting the 'newblars' seasoned. Folks with the power to kill are watched, by the imms....if they do something wrong, they will be asked a series of questions involving the matter. I rp with whoever whenever...if it's my time to be a lesson for a Sargeant/Newblar/Defiler/Big Macho man/god king....then so be it, but I don't want to rob others of rp just because they are new to a power role.

Back to the topic at hand....in all my experiences.....death scenes simply put suck.....torture, now there's something I like ALOT. *dark smirk*