KILLKILLKILL!!!

[Gimfalisette]

Man, jhunter, if I had the data to do a full analysis for you of the various factors which potentially influence PKilling and to what degree, so I could precisely calculate the proportion of PKills which are actually related to the single factor of rape not being a possibility--then maybe, potentially, eventually, I could agree with you. But all you have is your speculation. Myself, I have never seen a rape attempted to be carried out in game, and I have never seen a PKilling that seemed like "if only rape was an option, I wouldn't have to do this!"

BTW, advocating for rape to be in game? Does nothing for my trust in the men who push for it. It actually makes my skin crawl, and pushes me more toward avoiding y'all's PCs and/or killing first.

[number13]

I've never bribed anyone that actually was any benefit to me.

Wow. Really?  I've never bribed anyone and not had it work more or less as intended.  I can't remember ever being killed by a templar or a noble, except when I was explicitly asking for it.

[jhunter]

Did you even read my posts? Stop reacting emotionally and please read and respond accordingly. I don't believe I said in my posts that it should be any different. I only said that it is one particular avenue that is closed off. That's it. Again, I will state yet another time for you...so as to try and be even more transparent:


I NEVER STATED THAT THE RULE WAS WRONG OR SHOULD BE CHANGED. I SAID THAT IT IS A CONTRIBUTING FACTOR -HOWEVER MINOR- IT MAY BE.

So please, stop trying to turn it into a personal issue against me. K, thanks. 

[KankWhisperer]

I've never bribed anyone that actually was any benefit to me.

Wow. Really?  I've never bribed anyone and not had it work more or less as intended.  I can't remember ever being killed by a templar or a noble, except when I was explicitly asking for it.

I guess I don't know how to do it right.

[X-D]

Except that few actually want bribes. Templars don't really want bribes, they just take your coins and kill you. The Noble turns you over to the templar who kills you, and the assassin just kills you. I've never bribed anyone that actually was any benefit to me.

On that point, I've found bribing to be very effective.

It is also effective on my PCs. Beg, bribe, two best ways to avoid death...at least with my PCs (unless I'm playing an assassin already being paid to kill you...then it is all just business...sorry.)

Next, avoiding leaders? It's an RPG. Leaders need love too, and they have the most thankless job most days seeing as one person needs to deal with half a city of PC's. That leaves very little time for them to be doing something -they- might want to do with their character, made only worse when they go to try and get interaction only to find a ghost town because people dive for cover.

Then let us get rid of apped leaders.

No, I am not kidding. I don't think officers should be apped in any clan. I do not think sorcs should be apped, or benders, home grown or not at all.

Templars should come from PC noble ranks only.

A noble has some power, sure, but not much code wise outside own estate/compound.

I've seen many past and present nobles that lasted long enough if they got elevated to the rank of templar I'd feel good about interacting with them from the start.

I've never liked a single apped officer and actually fragged quite a few.

[Gimfalisette]

It's not a personal issue against you. It's a visceral reaction that I have, and that others have, when men bring up the subject of rape on these forums. You want to be trusted, men (in general)? Then stop talking about rape and how you wish you more often had the option to play it.

Bringing up rape in this thread, which was intended by the OP as a conversation about potential alternatives to PKilling, is quite bizarre if you are not actually advocating for rape to be always an option. Why bring it up if you're not actually suggesting that it should be always an option? Your self-defense seems disingenuous.

[Gimfalisette]

I NEVER STATED THAT THE RULE WAS WRONG OR SHOULD BE CHANGED. I SAID THAT IT IS A CONTRIBUTING FACTOR -HOWEVER MINOR- IT MAY BE.

Also, please show the data that supports your unequivocal statement here. In fact, you do not have it. All you have is your own speculation. What if the data actually showed that rape in game increased violent actions in general and thus led to more PKillings? That is another entirely feasible outcome, as rape IRL is a violent crime and linked to other violent crimes. However, it's not reasonable to speculate at all in the face of an utter lack of data.

[jhunter]

It's not a personal issue against you. It's a visceral reaction that I have, and that others have, when men bring up the subject of rape on these forums. You want to be trusted, men (in general)? Then stop talking about rape and how you wish you more often had the option to play it.

Bringing up rape in this thread, which was intended by the OP as a conversation about potential alternatives to PKilling, is quite bizarre if you are not actually advocating for rape to be always an option. Why bring it up if you're not actually suggesting that it should be always an option? Your self-defense seems disingenuous.

I brought it up because the other thread reminded me of the rule and since this discussion is about alternatives to PK'ing other pcs. It seemed to be relevant to the discussion So, by your standards, anyone who writes a book, movie, play, etc that has an act of rape in it, is some sort of deviant? Everyone who writes a book, movie, play, kills a character in an fictional world is some sort of bloodthirsty deviant? By your reasoning, everyone who plays this game is a twisted and sick fuck. It's not my fault personally that you have the perspective you do. I've never raped anyone nor do I condone, real life rape. I don't however agree that anyone who depicts such acts in a fictional way (whether that be a book, movie, play or roleplaying game) is somehow some kind of rapist sicko. I don't have to earn your trust. I could care less if you trust me or not. I don't have anything to prove to you to settle your own issues and insecurities on the issue. The problem is your own. Not mine, so please do me a favor and stop taking it out on me.

[jhunter]

I NEVER STATED THAT THE RULE WAS WRONG OR SHOULD BE CHANGED. I SAID THAT IT IS A CONTRIBUTING FACTOR -HOWEVER MINOR- IT MAY BE.

Also, please show the data that supports your unequivocal statement here. In fact, you do not have it. All you have is your own speculation. What if the data actually showed that rape in game increased violent actions in general and thus led to more PKillings? That is another entirely feasible outcome, as rape IRL is a violent crime and linked to other violent crimes. However, it's not reasonable to speculate at all in the face of an utter lack of data.

And, by your own reasoning, you cannot refute it without data to support it. It's not reasonable to speculate at all in the face of an utter lack of data.

[musashi]

Guys ... can we stop talking about rape? I mean, as amusing as it would be to see the staff lock a thread that the staff started ... this is a pretty dead horse.

[jhunter]

I would have dropped it already had Gimf stopped her attacks upon me over it.

[number13]

Then let us get rid of apped leaders.

No, I am not kidding. I don't think officers should be apped in any clan. I do not think sorcs should be apped, or benders, home grown or not at all.

Templars should come from PC noble ranks only.

I know it won't happen, but I'd prefer things done this way as well.

I've seen many past and present nobles that lasted long enough if they got elevated to the rank of templar I'd feel good about interacting with them from the start.

That would be a great reward for long-lived nobles, and would provide incentive for people to keep their noble PC alive and active.  (Though I've encountered only two templars that I believed were undeserving of the role.)

[Gimfalisette]

jhunter, uh, thanks for repeating what I just said? I was countering your assertion that "it is a contributing factor." As I clearly pointed out, whether or not it is a contributing factor cannot be determined.

Also, you go off the deep end about how everyone thinks you're a deviant sicko whenever you bring up the topic of rape. It's really weird. That language doesn't come into it at all until you bring it in.

[jhunter]

It's not a personal issue against you. It's a visceral reaction that I have, and that others have, when men bring up the subject of rape on these forums. You want to be trusted, men (in general)? Then stop talking about rape and how you wish you more often had the option to play it.

Bringing up rape in this thread, which was intended by the OP as a conversation about potential alternatives to PKilling, is quite bizarre if you are not actually advocating for rape to be always an option. Why bring it up if you're not actually suggesting that it should be always an option? Your self-defense seems disingenuous.

BTW, advocating for rape to be in game? Does nothing for my trust in the men who push for it. It actually makes my skin crawl, and pushes me more toward avoiding y'all's PCs and/or killing first.

[Gimfalisette]

That is not a personal reaction. I do not know anything about you, jhunter, the person, nor am I assuming anything about you. I am telling you that when I see you and other men advocating for rape on the forums that I want to avoid you, regardless of whether you are actually a perfectly nice person or not. There is a fight-or-flight response that comes into play; you evoke it, even though rationally I may believe you are not, personally, a rapist.

[KankWhisperer]

Just because I advocate PK, doesn't mean I PK. I think the last PK that I did that wasn't forced on me at a RPT was like five years ago. I have never
murdered anyone in real life. So someone taking up a position on an argument doesn't say anything about them imo. Lots of people like to take up
the Devil's Advocate position, or to point out an inconsistency without actually disagreeing with the rule.

[Jdr]

You know who kill excessively? Terrorists. Are you a terrorist?

Put simply, IF YOU MURDER IN ARMAGEDDON BIN LADEN WINS.

[Aaron Goulet]

You know who kill excessively? Terrorists. Are you a terrorist?

Put simply, IF YOU MURDER IN ARMAGEDDON BIN LADEN WINS.

This made me laugh.  I <3 you sometimes, JDR.

[Fnord]

Guys ... can we stop talking about rape?

The naughty Red Fang sneaks west.

[Riev]

Does anyone else feel like this thread has been three pages of an IRC chat?

I agree with what X-D said, that leader positions maybe don't NEED to be app'd... but in that case, we'd have to have 3-4 Nobles per house considering the PC death rate, before any city would see a Templar.


Maybe there should be better guidelines when initially app'ing a Templar to explain or give examples "how things are done in [city]"?

[Versu]

I don't think people realize --- The newbs, the commoners --- That they have 0 chance of survival before they walk around stabbing people.

They already have to kiss ass, grovel and beg to survive. Their only hope is to make connections with other mundanes and hope to the gods of Zalanthas that no one sees them as a threat.

It's hard as a new player to know who's a threat and who's a friend.

It takes a few long lived (10+ days) characters, to care enough -- to want to live over being some bad-ass, for  scenarios to count, to realize what people are fighting for, to protect your fellows - To learn.

Having survived, new players are at your mercy and it's practically your responsibility to teach them how to survive. Those pc's of similar background, race, whatever -- Because the greater story happens when you're around for awhile and plots need a team/group to have enough credibility to participate (unless you're a really nice ranger).

Especially when staff sends out hits.

[Shabago]

Guys ... can we stop talking about rape? I mean, as amusing as it would be to see the staff lock a thread that the staff started ... this is a pretty dead horse.

You may now be amused.