Pending Change to Charge

[brytta.leofa]

What, exactly, is the problem with having to disengage? In multiple-combatant situations, if you are not taking the damage, you can simply type 'disengage;charge man' and do what this has suggested anyways.

The problem is that charge used to be usable even if you were taking the damage: for instance, if a tarantula attacked you.  Now hunters who ride can't use charge as their, shall we say, offensive defense.

Is this more realistic?  (Hush, Lizzie.)  Game-wise, is it bad to make life harder for hunters? Heck if I know.  It's a reasonable change, but it's also one more strike against trying to play a ranger as a warrior.

I ask, because I can't help but think that the people vehemently against this nerf, have been either abusing it in the way staff has suggested, or just want something to complain about.

I totally would disengage if I reeled somebody, too-- ahem.  No, I've never fretted that using the basic combat commands in normal situations could be "abuse."

[Grey Area]

I'm not playing a ranger right now, but I'm hanging around with a few. They have no trouble getting off opening charges against aggressive wildlife, eg. raptors and carru.

[Riev]

Okay, I at least get it from reading Brytta's post.

However, paying close attention, you can still at least charge the tarantula once. At least bash can be used multiple times in combat, though it comes with drastic consequences for failure.

I just wonder how a singe post from a Staffer has caused so many pages of argument back and forth. I usually take what Staff says as gospel. Its going to happen, its in line with what they want it to be, and the relatively small percentage of players that is represented by the GDB just seems to disagree every time.

[Morgenes]

Not to add fuel to the fire, but more to calm them, we do have more to this change than originally advertised.  Charge is getting an increase in damage to compensate for the loss of being able to do this repeatedly, and to better bring it into our idea of what charge is.

We are altering the penalties with mounted combat to make them be not as harsh, as well as adding increased chances to hit dependent on relative heights.

In addition, we are adding a new skill called trample that will be open to all highly skilled riders (yes, I said all, not just Rangers) that is more intended for trampling someone who is already down, but can be used on someone who is still standing to attempt to knock them down.  The defender will have a stronger chance of defending against this knockdown, and will be able to mitigate the damage somewhat through quick reflexes.

We agree that mounted combat isn't fleshed out enough in Arm1 to really be a viable style, but we hope that these changes will provide some meat and viability to it.  The ideas of weapon reach, and targetted locations changing would require a major change to Arm's combat and balancing to make sure it isn't overpowering.  They are great ideas, but better focused to Arm Reborn.

[Fathi]

new skill called trample that will be open to all highly skilled riders

I believe I speak for everyone when I say I can't wait to hear more.

[tortall]

Awesomez stuffs

<3

[brytta.leofa]

However, paying close attention, you can still at least charge the tarantula once.

If you're opening combat...and yeah, if Joe Gith arrives from the west, you do have a good second or few to react before he can attack you.  Some wildlife will hide and attack before you see 'em, though (though rangers have skills to foil that, as well).

I just wonder how a singe post from a Staffer has caused so many pages of argument back and forth. I usually take what Staff says as gospel. Its going to happen, its in line with what they want it to be, and the relatively small percentage of players that is represented by the GDB just seems to disagree every time.

Take any five players and you'll get six opinions on everything, right? Part of it is that we don't see everything that's on the staff's agenda.  Sounds like this change was rolled out ahead of others in order to respond quickly to a particular problem.

[brytta.leofa]

Awesomez stuffs

Morgenes I take back all the mean things I said. 

[Thunkkin]

I'm not playing a ranger right now, but I'm hanging around with a few. They have no trouble getting off opening charges against aggressive wildlife, eg. raptors and carru.

This is good to hear.

AWESOME STUFF

That stuff ... it's awesome. : )

[Sephiroto]

Sounds exciting.  This makes me want to play a mounted warrior.

[the traveller]

Not to add fuel to the fire, but more to calm them, we do have more to this change than originally advertised.  Charge is getting an increase in damage to compensate for the loss of being able to do this repeatedly, and to better bring it into our idea of what charge is.

We are altering the penalties with mounted combat to make them be not as harsh, as well as adding increased chances to hit dependent on relative heights.

In addition, we are adding a new skill called trample that will be open to all highly skilled riders (yes, I said all, not just Rangers) that is more intended for trampling someone who is already down, but can be used on someone who is still standing to attempt to knock them down.  The defender will have a stronger chance of defending against this knockdown, and will be able to mitigate the damage somewhat through quick reflexes.

We agree that mounted combat isn't fleshed out enough in Arm1 to really be a viable style, but we hope that these changes will provide some meat and viability to it.  The ideas of weapon reach, and targetted locations changing would require a major change to Arm's combat and balancing to make sure it isn't overpowering.  They are great ideas, but better focused to Arm Reborn.

Ahh, Ok.  Thank you.

I'll shut up now.

[Synthesis]

We are altering the penalties with mounted combat to make them be not as harsh, as well as adding increased chances to hit dependent on relative heights.

[Ammut]

I like the changes.  Thank you guys for taking the time to go over this code!

[Riev]

So, are there DISADVANTAGES to using mounted combat? Because now it seems like crit shots to the head and neck are more common, and -every- class has a chance to use a "bash".

Just wondering, as this makes footed combat pretty much null.

[FantasyWriter]

So, are there DISADVANTAGES to using mounted combat? Because now it seems like crit shots to the head and neck are more common, and -every- class has a chance to use a "bash".

Just wondering, as this makes footed combat pretty much null.

the way I see it

New:
foot solider v. foot soldier = same
rider          v. rider           = same
foot solder v. rider (+critical hits -defense -offense) = same


Old:
foot solider v. foot soldier = same
rider          v. rider           = same
foot solder v. rider (-defense -offense) = rider at a disadvantage

[Cutthroat]

awesome things

Awesome.

So current characters will automatically get the 'trample' skill if the skill it branches from was already high enough prior to the change?

[Morgenes]

So, are there DISADVANTAGES to using mounted combat? Because now it seems like crit shots to the head and neck are more common, and -every- class has a chance to use a "bash".

Just wondering, as this makes footed combat pretty much null.

there are disadvantages to mounted combat.  To really see sucess while mounted, you need to be a competant rider and fighter.  Nowhere in my post did I say that mounted combat affects hit location, as a matter of fact my last paragraph says that it would be interesting, but potentially unbalancing and something better timed to Arm 2.  Any current apparent propensity towards head and neck shots is chance.

Also as I said, the new trample skill is not really affective as a bash, so don't expect it to be knocking people down all the time as that wasn't the intention.

Cutthroat, yes existing chars that should have branched trample will get it the next time log in.

[brytta.leofa]

adding increased chances to hit dependent on relative heights.

So this means, more or less, that a halfling on the ground and a half-giant on an inix will have a hard time reaching each other?  Or...that a mounted human and unmounted half-giant won't have a a hard time reaching?  Things.

[Morgenes]

adding increased chances to hit dependent on relative heights.

So this means, more or less, that a halfling on the ground and a half-giant on an inix will have a hard time reaching each other?  Or...that a mounted human and unmounted half-giant won't have a a hard time reaching?  Things.

this means that if you are mounted and relatively taller than your opponent (while mounted), you can get a bonus to hit them.  The mounted half giant can also get a similar bonus to defense.  So to your specific question, the halfling could have a harder time hitting the mounted rider, but the mounted rider can have a better chance of hitting the halfling.  Again, this is not to cover reach, but to allow skilled riders an advantage when fighting relatively smaller opponents from 'higher ground'

[Gunnerblaster]

Thank you, Morg.

I am now very pleased with this change.

[spawnloser]

the traveler, it has nothing to do with knockdown.  You get lagged as the target of a charge and could be charged again before running that lag out.

Umm, isn't that the game effect of knockdown? The lag is in place to prevent a player from immediately standing back up. So when I use the term knockdown, I'm referring to the time until you are functional/back on your feet.

No.  Command lag and knockdown are two different things.  Use clearer terminology.  Be precise.

Getting knocked down is being put on your ass.  Getting command lagged is not being able to do ANYTHING.  Bash accomplishes both things, but while your opponent is knocked down, you can't bash them again.  You can charge them again.

Charge is a maneuver where you don't just bump into them, you fucking run them over stampede style.  You need distance and you can not get that while you and the person you are trying to charge are engaged in combat.  If you want to charge someone, they have to be a distance away from you.  This change as described by Morgenes is realistic.  Explain to me how it is not.  Don't tell me about anything else.  Explain to me how a mount can get up to charging speed when you are within 2 meters of someone.

[Thunkkin]

Charge is a maneuver where you don't just bump into them, you fucking run them over stampede style.  You need distance and you can not get that while you and the person you are trying to charge are engaged in combat.  If you want to charge someone, they have to be a distance away from you.  This change as described by Morgenes is realistic.  Explain to me how it is not.  Don't tell me about anything else.  Explain to me how a mount can get up to charging speed when you are within 2 meters of someone.

That is the definition as it stands now.  Previously, the command and its echo were not clear.

Per the helpfile: "This skill causes a highly skilled rider to attempt to trample an opponent while mounted on an animal."

We're now getting a skill called trample.  It tramples your opponent.  You don't need to get distance.  The old charge resulted in a trample echo.  Thus, it was perfectly reasonable to assume, until the change, that charge wasn't a big distance maneuver - since it resulted in trampling and, hey look, you don't need long distances to trample, do you?

Finally, exactly where did The Traveller say that Morgenes' solution wasn't realistic?  "Be precise," please.   

It strikes me as bizarre to be jumping down peoples' throats in this thread when the imms have brought out a great solution that seems to address the concerns of everyone involved and also to reflect the opinions of both sides, not just yours.  Oh wait, this is the GDB.  I guess it isn't bizarre, unfortunately.

[Synthesis]

I haven't been looking forward to a reboot this much in a long time.

[5 day lifespan]

Well, I will be very much looking forward to seeing this in action.  Now I wonder what this change to sling bullets is all about...

[FantasyWriter]

I'm a goober that cant read.