Proposals for improving the gemmed experience

[Salt Merchant]

Although a variety of different opinions were expressed in the previous topic, a common theme of excessive isolation seems to emerge.

Here are two proposals that could address this to some extent:

• There's no reason that I can see for the gemmed to be subdivided into several separate compartments (temples). Why not combine the temples into one complex, with an open high place for three elementalist types, and a gloomy low place for the other three, and a combined residential section? It would be easily enough to contrive game circumstances that would bring about this sort of change in the Elementalists' Quarter (e.g. a big earthquake tumbling the old buildings).
• Create an elementalist NPC that will, for a fee, dispel magicks (sort of how the Vivaduan NPC used to charge for water). The fee should deter casual non-nil casting and will not remove the problems gemmed face on trying to return into the city. It would, however, make sloughing off to a tavern easier.

Another idea is to create a hierarchy among the gemmed. Let's face it, people love status. Why not create three formal designations: novice, mage and archmage (or something more Zalanthanian). To graduate to mage or archmage, the elementalist must pass a specific set of magickal tests, witnessed by others of greater rank.  Rank would entitle an elementalist to wear robes with a certain trim (why not get rid of elemental-specific robes altogether since most don't wear them anyhow and just have robes for the three ranks).  Those of lower rank would be expected to address those of higher rank with a certain respect.

[FantasyWriter]

Me likes.

[Thunkkin]

The Vivaduan wing of the combined temple should be named Hufflepuff.  Also, though I've never played a gemmed, these sound like ideas that would promote more RP and less boredom.

One thought: I could see certain factions in Allanak feeling less than excited about the idea of all the gemmed housed together in family bliss.  It smacks too much of cooperation.  So, I think the suggestion about varying ranks should be enriched - turn it into a cutthroat rivalry like that enjoyed by blue robes as well as the Tuluk district rivalries.  In other words, each sub-temple is competing for a place in the hierarchy and then the grand-poobahs within each temple are also at each other's throats.  All for the glory of the house cup!

[Morrolan]

Harry Potter aside, I think these are some great ideas.  And it would not require an earthquake, just a senate decision.  The land that was not being used could be "reclaimed."

And I volunteer to help with the writing or new areas necessary.

Morrolan

[Thunkkin]

Harry Potter aside, I think these are some great ideas.  And it would not require an earthquake, just a senate decision.  The land that was not being used could be "reclaimed."

Yes, I was thinking a Senate decision might be the way to go.  And, uh, I hope no one takes the Harry Potter jokes the wrong way.  I like the idea.

[Agent_137]

Another idea is to create a hierarchy among the gemmed. Let's face it, people love status. Why not create three formal designations: novice, mage and archmage (or something more Zalanthanian). To graduate to mage or archmage, the elementalist must pass a specific set of magickal tests, witnessed by others of greater rank.  Rank would entitle an elementalist to wear robes with a certain trim (why not get rid of elemental-specific robes altogether since most don't wear them anyhow and just have robes for the three ranks).  Those of lower rank would be expected to address those of higher rank with a certain respect.

*cough* council *cough*

why don't we just incorporate all human mages into Oash and leave the rest to rot? I'm under the impression that's the plan anyway.

[Marauder Moe]

Much of this "rank" idea already existed in-game before the Council, and is probably still relevant.

Also, the lack of gemmed social gathering inside the quarter isn't for lack of a location or common temple.  There are already a few good places for gemmed to gather.  One of them is practically a tavern (it just doesn't serve drinks, but people don't buy drinks in taverns anyway).  If you want gemmed to group socially in the quarter, you need to start doing it with your own character.  You probably pass by those gathering places every day, but instead of going there and waiting for someone else to pass by and maybe stop to chat, you just continue on to the Gaj.

[Armaddict]

There's no reason that I can see for the gemmed to be subdivided into several separate compartments (temples).

Uh...I'm not sure.  Things could of changed, or I could have some of the ideas wrong.  According to documentation as of like...four years ago, the last time I looked, don't some types of elementalist dislike each other as well?  So cramming them together might not fit in that case, but again, I'm not aware of changes that have happened.

[Agent_137]

yes, the docs say that, but I also have heard that in old pre-catacylsm tuluk all their mages had just one temple.

and in play, most gemmers aren't going to actively and openly try to PK an opposite element. if anything, a single temple would just provide more conflict. (a good thing)

however, considering nak's current political environment and the latest senate meeting . . . this whole one temple idea is not going to happen.

Btw, casting is legal in the pavilion. (of course, regen is not that great there so good luck getting people out of their temples.)

[FantasyWriter]

There's no reason that I can see for the gemmed to be subdivided into several separate compartments (temples).

Uh...I'm not sure.  Things could of changed, or I could have some of the ideas wrong.  According to documentation as of like...four years ago, the last time I looked, don't some types of elementalist dislike each other as well?  So cramming them together might not fit in that case, but again, I'm not aware of changes that have happened.

All elementalist disliking all members of an "opposing element" is akin to all guild_warriors thriving in battle.

There is only one calling which warriors follow: to fight, and perhaps to die fighting. Although motivated by innumerable goals, there are a few commonalities among warriors. In nearly all warriors there exists some notion of honour and fairness, and often a vague conception of glory.

These are characters with hopes and dreams, not cookie cutter mages from dungeons and dragons.

[Agent_137]

All elementalist disliking all members of an "opposing element" is akin to all guild_warriors thriving in battle.

These are characters with hopes and dreams, not cookie cutter mages from dungeons and dragons.

No, and Yes.

There are good IC and coded reasons for a elementalist to dislike their opposite element. I, of course, cannot go into detail. However, we're getting a little off track. . . .

let's get back on it: Gemmers need a CLAN, an overseeing IMMORTAL, and a PC overseeing non gemmed politically powerful BOSS.

I think this is one of the reasons why they shut down the council in favor of Oash. However there needs to be at least one other option because Oash is not the clan for many players.

[Tallulah]

Why keep all the gemmers separated into temples in different buildings, rather than consolidating them?  Why would the city spend all that extra money on gemmers when they already have AN ENTIRE SECTION OF THE CITY to themselves?

Gemmers don't need gemmer-specific clans, for IC as well as OOC reasons.  Besides Oash, gemmers can work for templars, or other people as they see fit.  It isn't as if it's difficult for gemmers to support themselves, or find action should they be seeking it.

[Salt Merchant]

Why keep all the gemmers separated into temples in different buildings, rather than consolidating them?  Why would the city spend all that extra money on gemmers when they already have AN ENTIRE SECTION OF THE CITY to themselves?

Exactly, but it would be easy to contrive some cataclysm that forces a consolidation. Earthquake and some temples are knocked down? Move the survivors into the remaining temple and make a few modifications, rather than funding the repair of them all. I don't think it would be unreasonable to add rooms to an existing temple and say there were there virtually all along. Consider how many vNPC Vivaduans there must be relative to the implemented size of the barracks, for instance.

It isn't as if it's difficult for gemmers to support themselves, or find action should they be seeking it.

My experience in finding action as a gemmed is that it generally requires you to be a bad guy. No one is going to hire you or work with you or talk to you (Vivaduans somewhat excepted, especially females; yes, I played a Viv human female once). Besides the rare templar-driven circumstances, you're on your own. So either you hold back on your powers and don't bother mundanes, or you start messing with them. Messing with them works fine as a short term plot generator, but PC gemmed are too few to prevent people from quickly deducing who may be doing the dirty work. (Also, it gets people upset OOCly due to a perceived different in power and it's also already been done about a thousand times). In my opinion, there needs to be some other challenge presented specifically to the gemmed.

[Synthesis]

The only complaint I've had about being gemmed is the inability to cancel spells without having a certain kind of 'gicker buddy around.

[Agent_137]

Gemmers don't need gemmer-specific clans, for IC as well as OOC reasons.  Besides Oash, gemmers can work for templars, or other people as they see fit.  It isn't as if it's difficult for gemmers to support themselves, or find action should they be seeking it.

apparently not. I tried this. It worked for a little while. then it stopped working. As long as certain powerful faction(s) are working against this, and the imms support these powerful faction(s), then . . . this will not work.

plus, it's rare to find a templar that actually knows how to use a gemmer well unless it's a very experienced templar. instead you just mostly get "kill this unnamed dude who did this"

[Synthesis]

plus, it's rare to find a templar that actually knows how to use a gemmer well unless it's a very experienced templar. instead you just mostly get "kill this unnamed dude who did this"

lol, isn't that what -all- plots boil down to, really?

[Thunkkin]

plus, it's rare to find a templar that actually knows how to use a gemmer well unless it's a very experienced templar. instead you just mostly get "kill this unnamed dude who did this"

lol, isn't that what -all- plots boil down to, really?

I would love to be in this plot.

[Morrolan]

plus, it's rare to find a templar that actually knows how to use a gemmer well unless it's a very experienced templar. instead you just mostly get "kill this unnamed dude who did this"

lol, isn't that what -all- plots boil down to, really?

I would love to be in this plot.

You don't need a templar for that plot.  You can do that one on your own.  For mundanes, the problem/bottleneck is often power and money.  For gemmers, the problem is much more likely to be one of purpose and meaning.

So, um, I have all this power, dude.  I don't know what to do with it.

No one will hire me except Oash.  I don't have access to most Imm-driven plots and animation because I am never with five other PCs who will talk to me beyond sneering and moving to another table.

I would hope that politically powerful, well-connected leadership PCs would have access to more interesting plots than that.  It has been a long time since I saw that kind of plot unravelling in game.

Maybe, just maybe, that has nothing to do with the game, and just has to do with my changed playtimes.  On the other hand...no, it doesn't.

[Agent_137]

plus, it's rare to find a templar that actually knows how to use a gemmer well unless it's a very experienced templar. instead you just mostly get "kill this unnamed dude who did this"

lol, isn't that what -all- plots boil down to, really?

only for the small minded templars. Oh! and there was also the "genocide this race" plot. :\

what happened to capture alive missions? Gemmers would be so good at that. What about hit and run missions? Gemmers would ALSO be good at that. What about just terrorizing someone? Or some plot where we assist some mundanes? Or research or explore? Or we bring back new and interesting creatures for the arena? If you want someone PK'd, hire a fucking assassin. Or talk to the mage and find out what they need to actually do the job. it's stupid to just put a PK order in the black box and expect a head to come out the other end because 'it's magick!'

In summary, Make a few mages before you make a templar, PLEASE. You don't have to be sweet and fatherly like Samos. You can be an asshole like Sulifus. just as long as you understand what the fuck goes on.

[Tallulah]

I've seen non-lethal missions given to gemmers plenty of times.  Reconnaissance is something very common.  Gathering materials from a far-off location is another.  Harassing or passing along messages has even happened.  Capturing a person or beast doesn't happen too often, but it isn't unheard of.  It all depends on the situation, elementalists involved, and employers involved.  Without going into any detail, certain types of gemmers will be used mostly for certain types of missions, and that's because of the nature of their magicks.

I guess the bottom line is, you can't base your judgement of the entire gemmed experience from your personal experience.  There are too many varying factors, and not everyone has the same experience that you have had.  The same goes with any kind of role, especially higher karma roles.  As mentioned before, they are karma roles for a reason, and the higher the karma, the more of a challenge they are to play.

[Salt Merchant]

Much of this "rank" idea already existed in-game before the Council, and is probably still relevant.

In the Council, rank was decided by service (on the face of it) and by happenstance and the whim of anyone who was in charge (in reality).

Here, the notion is more of a pre-defined trial of personal ability. It could even be made dangerous for the ill-prepared. The robe and rank would be a mark of that ability, similar to a medal in a way. It wouldn't grant any real authority over other mages, but it would be something some would strive for and lord over others. Add in the templar ability to raise mages by decree and the resentment that could cause, and it could be a nice little instrument for minor plot generation.

Also, the lack of gemmed social gathering inside the quarter isn't for lack of a location or common temple.  There are already a few good places for gemmed to gather.  One of them is practically a tavern (it just doesn't serve drinks, but people don't buy drinks in taverns anyway).  If you want gemmed to group socially in the quarter, you need to start doing it with your own character.  You probably pass by those gathering places every day, but instead of going there and waiting for someone else to pass by and maybe stop to chat, you just continue on to the Gaj.

In principle, but in practise it just doesn't work out that way. There have been a few times when the Vivaduan temple has attracted a crowd, generally when one or two popular water mages have taken to making themselves available in their outer temple at regular times, but on most days you can just walk around at any hour staring into empty temple lobbies. The square and the pavilion in it are a complete failure, to be blunt.

Put all into one temple and you have a community (and strife) by default.

[Salt Merchant]

The same goes with any kind of role, especially higher karma roles.  As mentioned before, they are karma roles for a reason, and the higher the karma, the more of a challenge they are to play.

I'm not sure this reasoning applies. I don't think it's any more difficult to play a gemmed Drovian or Elkrosian than a gemmed Vivaduan or Rukkian, just that there is more responsbility. If one went by karma alone, it would imply that those roles are 2.5 times more of a challenge to play.

[Marauder Moe]

Much of this "rank" idea already existed in-game before the Council, and is probably still relevant.

In the Council, rank was decided by service (on the face of it) and by happenstance and the whim of anyone who was in charge (in reality).

Here, the notion is more of a pre-defined trial of personal ability. It could even be made dangerous for the ill-prepared. The robe and rank would be a mark of that ability, similar to a medal in a way. It wouldn't grant any real authority over other mages, but it would be something some would strive for and lord over others. Add in the templar ability to raise mages by decree and the resentment that could cause, and it could be a nice little instrument for minor plot generation.

Like I said, there was a loose/simple gemmed hierarchy before the Council, and I suspect it's still in place.  Try asking some older PCs or NPCs.

Also, the lack of gemmed social gathering inside the quarter isn't for lack of a location or common temple.  There are already a few good places for gemmed to gather.  One of them is practically a tavern (it just doesn't serve drinks, but people don't buy drinks in taverns anyway).  If you want gemmed to group socially in the quarter, you need to start doing it with your own character.  You probably pass by those gathering places every day, but instead of going there and waiting for someone else to pass by and maybe stop to chat, you just continue on to the Gaj.

In principle, but in practise it just doesn't work out that way. There have been a few times when the Vivaduan temple has attracted a crowd, generally when one or two popular water mages have taken to making themselves available in their outer temple at regular times, but on most days you can just walk around at any hour staring into empty temple lobbies. The square and the pavilion in it are a complete failure, to be blunt.

I understand that they haven't worked out.  My point is, though, that there's no reason yet another gathering place will succeed where those failed.  The failure is not due to the place, it's due to the players.

[Salt Merchant]

Like I said, there was a loose/simple gemmed hierarchy before the Council, and I suspect it's still in place.  Try asking some older PCs or NPCs.

In fact, I've been one of those older PCs at one point.

I understand that they haven't worked out.  My point is, though, that there's no reason yet another gathering place will succeed where those failed.  The failure is not due to the place, it's due to the players.

My point is that it's not another gathering place, where gemmed from different areas (temples) come to assemble. It would be the -only- place. They could not help but be there together. They could not physically separate themselves even if they wanted to because they'd all be in one pot while casting or using the residential area. Community -by default- rather than each gemmed online filed away in a different temple.

[Marauder Moe]

A place for everyone to practice spells together?

I've noticed that gemmed typically like to practice spells alone, even when there are other PCs in the temple.