Proposals for improving the gemmed experience

[Salt Merchant]

Although a variety of different opinions were expressed in the previous topic, a common theme of excessive isolation seems to emerge.

Here are two proposals that could address this to some extent:

• There's no reason that I can see for the gemmed to be subdivided into several separate compartments (temples). Why not combine the temples into one complex, with an open high place for three elementalist types, and a gloomy low place for the other three, and a combined residential section? It would be easily enough to contrive game circumstances that would bring about this sort of change in the Elementalists' Quarter (e.g. a big earthquake tumbling the old buildings).
• Create an elementalist NPC that will, for a fee, dispel magicks (sort of how the Vivaduan NPC used to charge for water). The fee should deter casual non-nil casting and will not remove the problems gemmed face on trying to return into the city. It would, however, make sloughing off to a tavern easier.

Another idea is to create a hierarchy among the gemmed. Let's face it, people love status. Why not create three formal designations: novice, mage and archmage (or something more Zalanthanian). To graduate to mage or archmage, the elementalist must pass a specific set of magickal tests, witnessed by others of greater rank.  Rank would entitle an elementalist to wear robes with a certain trim (why not get rid of elemental-specific robes altogether since most don't wear them anyhow and just have robes for the three ranks).  Those of lower rank would be expected to address those of higher rank with a certain respect.

[FantasyWriter]

Me likes.

[Thunkkin]

The Vivaduan wing of the combined temple should be named Hufflepuff.  Also, though I've never played a gemmed, these sound like ideas that would promote more RP and less boredom.

One thought: I could see certain factions in Allanak feeling less than excited about the idea of all the gemmed housed together in family bliss.  It smacks too much of cooperation.  So, I think the suggestion about varying ranks should be enriched - turn it into a cutthroat rivalry like that enjoyed by blue robes as well as the Tuluk district rivalries.  In other words, each sub-temple is competing for a place in the hierarchy and then the grand-poobahs within each temple are also at each other's throats.  All for the glory of the house cup!

[Morrolan]

Harry Potter aside, I think these are some great ideas.  And it would not require an earthquake, just a senate decision.  The land that was not being used could be "reclaimed."

And I volunteer to help with the writing or new areas necessary.

Morrolan

[Thunkkin]

Harry Potter aside, I think these are some great ideas.  And it would not require an earthquake, just a senate decision.  The land that was not being used could be "reclaimed."

Yes, I was thinking a Senate decision might be the way to go.  And, uh, I hope no one takes the Harry Potter jokes the wrong way.  I like the idea.

[Agent_137]

Another idea is to create a hierarchy among the gemmed. Let's face it, people love status. Why not create three formal designations: novice, mage and archmage (or something more Zalanthanian). To graduate to mage or archmage, the elementalist must pass a specific set of magickal tests, witnessed by others of greater rank.  Rank would entitle an elementalist to wear robes with a certain trim (why not get rid of elemental-specific robes altogether since most don't wear them anyhow and just have robes for the three ranks).  Those of lower rank would be expected to address those of higher rank with a certain respect.

*cough* council *cough*

why don't we just incorporate all human mages into Oash and leave the rest to rot? I'm under the impression that's the plan anyway.

[Marauder Moe]

Much of this "rank" idea already existed in-game before the Council, and is probably still relevant.

Also, the lack of gemmed social gathering inside the quarter isn't for lack of a location or common temple.  There are already a few good places for gemmed to gather.  One of them is practically a tavern (it just doesn't serve drinks, but people don't buy drinks in taverns anyway).  If you want gemmed to group socially in the quarter, you need to start doing it with your own character.  You probably pass by those gathering places every day, but instead of going there and waiting for someone else to pass by and maybe stop to chat, you just continue on to the Gaj.

[Armaddict]

There's no reason that I can see for the gemmed to be subdivided into several separate compartments (temples).

Uh...I'm not sure.  Things could of changed, or I could have some of the ideas wrong.  According to documentation as of like...four years ago, the last time I looked, don't some types of elementalist dislike each other as well?  So cramming them together might not fit in that case, but again, I'm not aware of changes that have happened.

[Agent_137]

yes, the docs say that, but I also have heard that in old pre-catacylsm tuluk all their mages had just one temple.

and in play, most gemmers aren't going to actively and openly try to PK an opposite element. if anything, a single temple would just provide more conflict. (a good thing)

however, considering nak's current political environment and the latest senate meeting . . . this whole one temple idea is not going to happen.

Btw, casting is legal in the pavilion. (of course, regen is not that great there so good luck getting people out of their temples.)

[FantasyWriter]

There's no reason that I can see for the gemmed to be subdivided into several separate compartments (temples).

Uh...I'm not sure.  Things could of changed, or I could have some of the ideas wrong.  According to documentation as of like...four years ago, the last time I looked, don't some types of elementalist dislike each other as well?  So cramming them together might not fit in that case, but again, I'm not aware of changes that have happened.

All elementalist disliking all members of an "opposing element" is akin to all guild_warriors thriving in battle.

There is only one calling which warriors follow: to fight, and perhaps to die fighting. Although motivated by innumerable goals, there are a few commonalities among warriors. In nearly all warriors there exists some notion of honour and fairness, and often a vague conception of glory.

These are characters with hopes and dreams, not cookie cutter mages from dungeons and dragons.

[Agent_137]

All elementalist disliking all members of an "opposing element" is akin to all guild_warriors thriving in battle.

These are characters with hopes and dreams, not cookie cutter mages from dungeons and dragons.

No, and Yes.

There are good IC and coded reasons for a elementalist to dislike their opposite element. I, of course, cannot go into detail. However, we're getting a little off track. . . .

let's get back on it: Gemmers need a CLAN, an overseeing IMMORTAL, and a PC overseeing non gemmed politically powerful BOSS.

I think this is one of the reasons why they shut down the council in favor of Oash. However there needs to be at least one other option because Oash is not the clan for many players.

[Tallulah]

Why keep all the gemmers separated into temples in different buildings, rather than consolidating them?  Why would the city spend all that extra money on gemmers when they already have AN ENTIRE SECTION OF THE CITY to themselves?

Gemmers don't need gemmer-specific clans, for IC as well as OOC reasons.  Besides Oash, gemmers can work for templars, or other people as they see fit.  It isn't as if it's difficult for gemmers to support themselves, or find action should they be seeking it.

[Salt Merchant]

Why keep all the gemmers separated into temples in different buildings, rather than consolidating them?  Why would the city spend all that extra money on gemmers when they already have AN ENTIRE SECTION OF THE CITY to themselves?

Exactly, but it would be easy to contrive some cataclysm that forces a consolidation. Earthquake and some temples are knocked down? Move the survivors into the remaining temple and make a few modifications, rather than funding the repair of them all. I don't think it would be unreasonable to add rooms to an existing temple and say there were there virtually all along. Consider how many vNPC Vivaduans there must be relative to the implemented size of the barracks, for instance.

It isn't as if it's difficult for gemmers to support themselves, or find action should they be seeking it.

My experience in finding action as a gemmed is that it generally requires you to be a bad guy. No one is going to hire you or work with you or talk to you (Vivaduans somewhat excepted, especially females; yes, I played a Viv human female once). Besides the rare templar-driven circumstances, you're on your own. So either you hold back on your powers and don't bother mundanes, or you start messing with them. Messing with them works fine as a short term plot generator, but PC gemmed are too few to prevent people from quickly deducing who may be doing the dirty work. (Also, it gets people upset OOCly due to a perceived different in power and it's also already been done about a thousand times). In my opinion, there needs to be some other challenge presented specifically to the gemmed.

[Synthesis]

The only complaint I've had about being gemmed is the inability to cancel spells without having a certain kind of 'gicker buddy around.

[Agent_137]

Gemmers don't need gemmer-specific clans, for IC as well as OOC reasons.  Besides Oash, gemmers can work for templars, or other people as they see fit.  It isn't as if it's difficult for gemmers to support themselves, or find action should they be seeking it.

apparently not. I tried this. It worked for a little while. then it stopped working. As long as certain powerful faction(s) are working against this, and the imms support these powerful faction(s), then . . . this will not work.

plus, it's rare to find a templar that actually knows how to use a gemmer well unless it's a very experienced templar. instead you just mostly get "kill this unnamed dude who did this"

[Synthesis]

plus, it's rare to find a templar that actually knows how to use a gemmer well unless it's a very experienced templar. instead you just mostly get "kill this unnamed dude who did this"

lol, isn't that what -all- plots boil down to, really?

[Thunkkin]

plus, it's rare to find a templar that actually knows how to use a gemmer well unless it's a very experienced templar. instead you just mostly get "kill this unnamed dude who did this"

lol, isn't that what -all- plots boil down to, really?

I would love to be in this plot.

[Morrolan]

plus, it's rare to find a templar that actually knows how to use a gemmer well unless it's a very experienced templar. instead you just mostly get "kill this unnamed dude who did this"

lol, isn't that what -all- plots boil down to, really?

I would love to be in this plot.

You don't need a templar for that plot.  You can do that one on your own.  For mundanes, the problem/bottleneck is often power and money.  For gemmers, the problem is much more likely to be one of purpose and meaning.

So, um, I have all this power, dude.  I don't know what to do with it.

No one will hire me except Oash.  I don't have access to most Imm-driven plots and animation because I am never with five other PCs who will talk to me beyond sneering and moving to another table.

I would hope that politically powerful, well-connected leadership PCs would have access to more interesting plots than that.  It has been a long time since I saw that kind of plot unravelling in game.

Maybe, just maybe, that has nothing to do with the game, and just has to do with my changed playtimes.  On the other hand...no, it doesn't.

[Agent_137]

plus, it's rare to find a templar that actually knows how to use a gemmer well unless it's a very experienced templar. instead you just mostly get "kill this unnamed dude who did this"

lol, isn't that what -all- plots boil down to, really?

only for the small minded templars. Oh! and there was also the "genocide this race" plot. :\

what happened to capture alive missions? Gemmers would be so good at that. What about hit and run missions? Gemmers would ALSO be good at that. What about just terrorizing someone? Or some plot where we assist some mundanes? Or research or explore? Or we bring back new and interesting creatures for the arena? If you want someone PK'd, hire a fucking assassin. Or talk to the mage and find out what they need to actually do the job. it's stupid to just put a PK order in the black box and expect a head to come out the other end because 'it's magick!'

In summary, Make a few mages before you make a templar, PLEASE. You don't have to be sweet and fatherly like Samos. You can be an asshole like Sulifus. just as long as you understand what the fuck goes on.

[Tallulah]

I've seen non-lethal missions given to gemmers plenty of times.  Reconnaissance is something very common.  Gathering materials from a far-off location is another.  Harassing or passing along messages has even happened.  Capturing a person or beast doesn't happen too often, but it isn't unheard of.  It all depends on the situation, elementalists involved, and employers involved.  Without going into any detail, certain types of gemmers will be used mostly for certain types of missions, and that's because of the nature of their magicks.

I guess the bottom line is, you can't base your judgement of the entire gemmed experience from your personal experience.  There are too many varying factors, and not everyone has the same experience that you have had.  The same goes with any kind of role, especially higher karma roles.  As mentioned before, they are karma roles for a reason, and the higher the karma, the more of a challenge they are to play.

[Salt Merchant]

Much of this "rank" idea already existed in-game before the Council, and is probably still relevant.

In the Council, rank was decided by service (on the face of it) and by happenstance and the whim of anyone who was in charge (in reality).

Here, the notion is more of a pre-defined trial of personal ability. It could even be made dangerous for the ill-prepared. The robe and rank would be a mark of that ability, similar to a medal in a way. It wouldn't grant any real authority over other mages, but it would be something some would strive for and lord over others. Add in the templar ability to raise mages by decree and the resentment that could cause, and it could be a nice little instrument for minor plot generation.

Also, the lack of gemmed social gathering inside the quarter isn't for lack of a location or common temple.  There are already a few good places for gemmed to gather.  One of them is practically a tavern (it just doesn't serve drinks, but people don't buy drinks in taverns anyway).  If you want gemmed to group socially in the quarter, you need to start doing it with your own character.  You probably pass by those gathering places every day, but instead of going there and waiting for someone else to pass by and maybe stop to chat, you just continue on to the Gaj.

In principle, but in practise it just doesn't work out that way. There have been a few times when the Vivaduan temple has attracted a crowd, generally when one or two popular water mages have taken to making themselves available in their outer temple at regular times, but on most days you can just walk around at any hour staring into empty temple lobbies. The square and the pavilion in it are a complete failure, to be blunt.

Put all into one temple and you have a community (and strife) by default.

[Salt Merchant]

The same goes with any kind of role, especially higher karma roles.  As mentioned before, they are karma roles for a reason, and the higher the karma, the more of a challenge they are to play.

I'm not sure this reasoning applies. I don't think it's any more difficult to play a gemmed Drovian or Elkrosian than a gemmed Vivaduan or Rukkian, just that there is more responsbility. If one went by karma alone, it would imply that those roles are 2.5 times more of a challenge to play.

[Marauder Moe]

Much of this "rank" idea already existed in-game before the Council, and is probably still relevant.

In the Council, rank was decided by service (on the face of it) and by happenstance and the whim of anyone who was in charge (in reality).

Here, the notion is more of a pre-defined trial of personal ability. It could even be made dangerous for the ill-prepared. The robe and rank would be a mark of that ability, similar to a medal in a way. It wouldn't grant any real authority over other mages, but it would be something some would strive for and lord over others. Add in the templar ability to raise mages by decree and the resentment that could cause, and it could be a nice little instrument for minor plot generation.

Like I said, there was a loose/simple gemmed hierarchy before the Council, and I suspect it's still in place.  Try asking some older PCs or NPCs.

Also, the lack of gemmed social gathering inside the quarter isn't for lack of a location or common temple.  There are already a few good places for gemmed to gather.  One of them is practically a tavern (it just doesn't serve drinks, but people don't buy drinks in taverns anyway).  If you want gemmed to group socially in the quarter, you need to start doing it with your own character.  You probably pass by those gathering places every day, but instead of going there and waiting for someone else to pass by and maybe stop to chat, you just continue on to the Gaj.

In principle, but in practise it just doesn't work out that way. There have been a few times when the Vivaduan temple has attracted a crowd, generally when one or two popular water mages have taken to making themselves available in their outer temple at regular times, but on most days you can just walk around at any hour staring into empty temple lobbies. The square and the pavilion in it are a complete failure, to be blunt.

I understand that they haven't worked out.  My point is, though, that there's no reason yet another gathering place will succeed where those failed.  The failure is not due to the place, it's due to the players.

[Salt Merchant]

Like I said, there was a loose/simple gemmed hierarchy before the Council, and I suspect it's still in place.  Try asking some older PCs or NPCs.

In fact, I've been one of those older PCs at one point.

I understand that they haven't worked out.  My point is, though, that there's no reason yet another gathering place will succeed where those failed.  The failure is not due to the place, it's due to the players.

My point is that it's not another gathering place, where gemmed from different areas (temples) come to assemble. It would be the -only- place. They could not help but be there together. They could not physically separate themselves even if they wanted to because they'd all be in one pot while casting or using the residential area. Community -by default- rather than each gemmed online filed away in a different temple.

[Marauder Moe]

A place for everyone to practice spells together?

I've noticed that gemmed typically like to practice spells alone, even when there are other PCs in the temple.

[Boggis]

Bunch of gemmed all casting in an area at the same time? Sounds like a nightmare. Especially once they start using a particular tactic. I can stand to be the room with one other gemmed when practicing and that's about it. Typically my gemmed prefer to keep their precise abilities to themselves also.

[Agent_137]

I've seen non-lethal missions given to gemmers plenty of times.  Reconnaissance is something very common.  Gathering materials from a far-off location is another.  Harassing or passing along messages has even happened.  Capturing a person or beast doesn't happen too often, but it isn't unheard of.  It all depends on the situation, elementalists involved, and employers involved.  Without going into any detail, certain types of gemmers will be used mostly for certain types of missions, and that's because of the nature of their magicks.

In the past 5 months? Has there been any missions like this given to gemmers from the outside? I submit: maybe a tiny handful. Hell, on one mission, we were ordered to KILL a guy but we captured him instead. I don't count that as a 'capture' mission because those were not the orders. And, honestly, gathering materials is the lowest and the boringest of missions since it usually involves forage. I even tried to sell *special hard for mundane to get but useful item* to those who would use it and got a little interest but no one was really beating down my door. I had to setup all the 'go get this' missions myself. Which means they don't count!

In the days of Samos? Yea, we had some fun plots back then with templar and imm support. But now adays it's basically a 'join oash or diddle yourself' environment.

Like I said, there was a loose/simple gemmed hierarchy before the Council, and I suspect it's still in place.  Try asking some older PCs or NPCs.

there are no older PCs now. but yea, you could always wish up to have Numus tell you about the old days of rank before the council.

The failure is not due to the place, it's due to the players.

not quite true. the pavilion is not on the way to town for any temple but whira, and sorta ruk. That's a big problem and the opposite is one of the reasons the viv temple has always been a natural gathering place. Unfortunately, the viv temple now stinks inside. So you can either ignore the IC reality or go someplace else. Also, the best regen rooms for every temple are NOT the front lobby where people can see you from the street. So you either secret yourself inside to train or you hold your dick in the wind hoping for someone to come by.

it's like they make it obsessively hard for gemmers to get any interaction. They even BURNED the pavilion and left it filthy. It took two PCs to actually clean it. *salutes salt merchant*


 

I've noticed that gemmed typically like to practice spells alone, even when there are other PCs in the temple.

  no, this must be personal choice. I've noticed the exact opposite and i've known quite a few gemmers ICly over the past 2 years. However, multiple rooms would be conducive for this, but still provide interaction. My original idea a year and a half ago was a single gathering room with smaller casting rooms for each element attached to the main room. With the main room was visible from the casting rooms. it saves space and money ICly, and also serves an OOC purpose. what's not to like?
 
 

Bunch of gemmed all casting in an area at the same time? Sounds like a nightmare. Especially once they start using a particular tactic. I can stand to be the room with one other gemmed when practicing and that's about it. Typically my gemmed prefer to keep their precise abilities to themselves also.

you and moe bring up good points, but honestly if you want to be secret about your casting, why the fuck are you 'secretly casting' in the 'main casting room' of your temple? there must be at least a handful of VNPCs or NPCs moving in and out, and another PC could walk in at any moment.

A single temple would not prevent the secretive from going off and being secret. But it would afford a shit ton of more interaction. But probably too much. It would likely be shut down if only for IC reasons.

that said, it may have almost happened. The senate almost completely fucking reorganized allanak, and were going to put the nobles in merchant's quarter, and merchants in gicker quarter. And gickers in the borsail estate. That may have actually been good in the long run but probably required too much building.

[Pale Horse]

Looking back to the time when I had gemmed, both on and off the Council, I remember the times when gemmed would gather in lobbies (mostly the vivaduan, due to it's position, as has been noted), then being told that it was forbidden, IG, for them to be inside a Temple not of their Element.  OOC or IC, we took it as IG and rolled with it and tried using the Pavilion..just didn't work out as well.

That being said, having a single edifice house a wing dedicated to each element, and having a common meeting/practice ground sounds great to me.  Hell, save space.  Make the layout like an apartment building.  From F1 and up, Vivaduans, Elkrans, Krathi, with Whiran's having the top most floor and access to the roof.  Have the basement for Rukkians and Drovians.  Lobby is the common meeting grounds/hang-out space/bar.  Non-magickers not permitted past the lobby, Templars excepted.  If you still want to do that whole barrier thing, stick it at the beginning of the stairwell, thus letting only gemmed, those following them (Lady Jal or street sweeper Jilll has a secret, disgusting liking for the mage sexxors) and Templars past.

[Boggis]

you and moe bring up good points, but honestly if you want to be secret about your casting, why the fuck are you 'secretly casting' in the 'main casting room' of your temple? there must be at least a handful of VNPCs or NPCs moving in and out, and another PC could walk in at any moment.

Most of my gemmed haven't been too bothered about what others in their own temple know of their abilities as they have the same abilities / potential to achieve them. Most of my gemmed have preferred to keep other gemmed in the dark about what they can or cannot do given that there's a reasonable element of competition and conflict that exists between gemmed. Letting other gemmed know your ins and outs can be a dangerous proposition.

A single temple would not prevent the secretive from going off and being secret. But it would afford a shit ton of more interaction. But probably too much. It would likely be shut down if only for IC reasons.

More than likely. I always assumed that the Templarate prefers the gemmed population to be divided and splintered with no central focal point to gather around where they might potentially "get ideas".

[a strange shadow]

Or the Templarate could prefer to have them all in one place, easier to watch over (frequent Templar visits) rather than have to trek to each temple and check out each gathering spot for ne'er do wells when they could be doing other more important things, like politiking with that sexy Kasix temptress.

Any situation can be twisted in any direction; I'd like to see it twisted toward playability without losing the "contained" feel. A single temple would feel pretty contained, no?

[Marauder Moe]

I think the gemmer quarter as a whole could be considered like a big giant "single temple".  It's just a matter of scale, which then equates to a matter of players being too lazy/impatient to walk by existing gathering places and hang out there until someone else shows up.

Gemmed players could also make an effort to, upon finding other gemmed outside of the quarter, suggest relocating the group to the  pavilion or someone's temple.

Do these things often enough and I think you'll see that mages (with a half-decent elementalist PC population) can maintain an active social life without leaving the quarter.  I've seen it happen before.

[Lizzie]

I think just the opportunity to dispell your -own- self-cast spells would be great. Maybe to avoid twinkage, it would only be for things like..blurry blurs, extra-strong strength, upgraded mana, super-stamina, sparkling essence, shadowy shadows, like that (people who would know these things, already know. People who don't know these things, won't be able to tell from what I just said. So - no IC divulged, yay). Things that would normally give your own character some kind of boost, that you really don't need now that you're safe in the Gaj or in the gates of the city, etc. Maybe if someone else cast a spell on you, that you know, but you only know at a lower power, you'd still have to wait for it to wear off or find someone who can magickally dispell it for you.

[X-D]

Nah, the existing gathering places just suck is all.

The square, Alright lets see, We have a table, out in the open with nothing near, We have a burned crappy pavilion, but no furniture and nothing interesting in there. You can leave that and go get a bit of food in another room, But come on now. Oh, and the nearest quit area is your temple.

The main reason people are in taverns is for such OOC reasons. Mainly that nice quit safe room 1-2 commands away. Next, indoors so not burning food/water at the outdoor rate, Next tables/chairs, and lastly such things as food/water/booze/spice. Oh, and reasonably lawful in most of them, something else that meeting area lacks.

I'm all for one large elemental building with a common area and elemental annexes. I'd have to put a gemmed back in my list of future PCs.

[Vessol]

I like. I'm always for centralizing the player-base more.

[FantasyWriter]

Dwarf viv with the focus of opening a bar in the magicker quarter.

[Zoltan]

I like the large building concept. It'd still need to theoretically take up a ton of area yet, to account for gemmed NPCs and vNPCs. I just like the idea of putting gemmers in even tighter quarters. 'Cause believe you me, that mage-on-mage hate is a lot of fun too. Minor conflict is -bound- to start up with everyone in each other's face. It's how reality shows work!

[brytta.leofa]

My fear is that the rebuilding of the whole elementalists' quarter would take a very motivated staff member.

[Zoltan]

My fear is that the rebuilding of the whole elementalists' quarter would take a very motivated staff member.

I agree. Not to mention tremendous IC changes. I don't think it's very likely, but it definitely seems like a cool idea to me.

[Armaddict]

And some legitimate IC means and motivation, as well.

[Tallulah]

One of the reasons I was able to stick with this mud is because magick is hated and feared.  It's one of the things I like the most about Armageddon.

Take from that what you will.  With that, I bow out of this thread.

[a strange shadow]

I'm always for centralizing the player-base more.

[FantasyWriter]

Don't forget all the VNPCs and NPCs that like things just the way they are.

[jhunter]

I think combining the temples into one larger temple with a wing for each element is a great idea. Still give each wing their own place to -practice- their magick. After thinking about it more, I think that maybe adding another way into or out of the city directly from the magicker's temple might help out a bit too. You could enter or leave the city through this route, it could be guarded by a powerful templar and some soldiers. Make it legal to enter or leave through this route with spells in effect, so long as you are not acting out of line otherwise. Make it -kill on sight- for anyone entering or leaving the other city gates with spells in effect or being in any other part of the city with magicks in effect.

[Riev]

I am definitely for the larger communal meeting area. As others have said, the current one lacks a certain... flair. People go to their own temples only because they can't go into the other ones, and they go there because of special perks they get for being in their own place. If there was a bar-style communal area that -everyone- had to pass before getting to their section, at least people may slow down. If you say that you could do that now, that would be one tile away from the main road, before you go to the Vivaduan temple, and that is just bollocks.

Pushing everyone together is a great idea. The only idea I wouldn't agree to is the robes denoting how "powerful" one might be, and that is only because I think it would encourage more twinking, which is already pretty inherent in a class that "branches" pretty quickly. Saying "I know this spell now, so I can be a different color robe" just makes people want that position so much more, that they forgo much else. Thats just my Opinion.