Anatomy of an elf

[spicemustflow]

I'm having trouble picturing my favorite race, help me out.

Here we have a humanoid creature that is considerably taller than a human. It is much weaker than a human, so I'm assuming that its muscle mass is insignificant in comparison. Do they look like stick insects or ethiopian starving children? If that's the case, the 'official' race picture is wrong. If it isn't then they either have hollow bones, or their muscles are made of foam.

They can also run incredible distances, putting the modern (human) long distance runners to shame. Now, I'll get the standard 'there is a difference between strength and endurance' response but I'd imagine that a kick from a leg that can run across the known world could crack a mul's skull. Imagine a gazelle or something similar, they don't appear to have much mass but their kick is dangerous. If they would use it anyway.

Also, what kind of heart they have, in order not to burst after such a long run?

What I'm trying to say is that you have to employ some serious suspension of disbelief when you consider an elf.

I'm not too bent on realism, I'm more curious about how do you picture an elf.

[Bushranger]

Elfs don't have hearts. Everyone knows they wouldn't pee up yer bum if yer kidneys were on fire.

[X-D]

I've always pictured them as much like a horse standing upright and of course humanized.

Good long well muscled legs, very narrow hips and waist with a long large rib/chest area for massive lungs and heart (such as a horse) but almost no muscle or weight from the hips up, very bony arms and long necks and faces...almost horselike there too.

One reason I always get an OOC laugh out of any elf female that is "buxom" In any way, breast REALLY hamper running ability...no elf would have more then slightly larger bumps then a male.

I'd draw one if I was an artist.

But basicly picture any african from a tribe known for running then get them 10 times better adapted for distance running and give them pointy ears.

[Taven]

This has to be the most quoted Zalanthian art orignal submission ever, but it comes in handy so often.

[Majikal]

I can't say that I care for that picture too much except for as a reference of other races vs half-giant.

IMO the elf is far to thick and curvy and generally 'healthy' looking to be Zalanthan.

I've always imagined them much like X-D said.

[SmashedTregil]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52k6FdApB94  <=Elf.

[SMuz]

Hah, I had a lot of trouble imagining an elf when I first played. I've kinda imagined them as a human, but with much longer limbs and torso. Probably only slightly skinnier as the average human, but because their limbs are longer, they look much skinnier. Probably the same amount of muscles, but elven arms have much softer muscles, with their legs only slightly tougher than a human's. I don't want to imagine them looking malnourished either, because it's not cool.

I think elves just have really light bones, which is what makes them move much more faster. Sure, their legs can propel themselves, but they can't kick too strongly because there's just not much mass in their foot. But definitely brittle bones.

Their muscles and organs were just designed to let them accelerate much faster, but without much power.

I'm sure there's some bio student around here who's going to be laughing at everything I wrote

[Taven]

I can't say that I care for that picture too much except for as a reference of other races vs half-giant.

IMO the elf is far to thick and curvy and generally 'healthy' looking to be Zalanthan.

The elf IS pretty curvy, but I've always imagined it was because of that one elven tribe widely known to make the sexiest clothes in the Known World. That doesn't directly relate to a shapely form, of course, but it's how I've always thought of the elf there.

I think elves just have really light bones, which is what makes them move much more faster. Sure, their legs can propel themselves, but they can't kick too strongly because there's just not much mass in their foot. But definitely brittle bones.

Their muscles and organs were just designed to let them accelerate much faster, but without much power.

I'm sure there's some bio student around here who's going to be laughing at everything I wrote

Light brittle bones sound very bad to run on, they sound like they'd snap easily. I'm too lazy to look and check if that's true, so we'll both have to wait for those bio students to comment.

I agree with the idea of faster, but with not as much power if power means strength. I think of desert elves, at least, having a fair amount of stamina and long-term endurance, since they don't ride mounts.

[Twilight]

I visualized them as having a more compact, "shorter" torso in comparison to their legs.  I view the legs as being very long,  letting them fall into a rhythm when they run (sort like like how when penguins waddle, that actually is the most energy efficient way to move over snow...only for sand, not snow).  Shorter (in proportion) thighs and buttocks than humans, but with more muscle.  Longers legs below the knees, but with thin, extremely hard calves.  However, due to the longer lower legs, they wouldn't be able to kick very hard, because they would loose leverage (feet could move very fast, but not with a lot of force).

[Mr.B]

It's really not all that tough to picture a Zalanthan elf, people. Take a regular elf, stretch them out and make them generally tall and slender, then give them superhuman running ability and stamina. As far as what gives them the ability to run like all hell, that's easy. It's the thousands or millions of years of running away from whoever they stole from. The slow perished, and the tough lived to brag about it and make babies.

Think about it.

[Malken]

That last elf looks like a muscular version of Elrond ...

[Rooster]

... or a half-elf.

[X-D]

The races art...That should only be used to compare heights. Other then that, It is WAY off..on pretty much everything. First, the mantis only has four limbs, You know something is wrong when the artist cannot remember that a mantis has six. Dwarves, normaly descibed as being about as wide as they are tall, in that art, he is barely HALF as wide as he is tall. Muls keep basicly the same preportions of the mixed parent races, So, they should be about halfway between dwarf and human...that mul is a baby, Under weight, undersized. The elf is shown as a very FAT one of its race I guess. The Half-giant, though maybe about the right height is shown as half the weight/mass it should be. IE the artist left it human only taller, that HG could not weigh more then 900 or so lbs...while zalanthus HG range about 1600-2000 lbs.

[Gunnerblaster]

Wow. Those are some freaking awesome pictures, Allegria.

[X-D]

The dwarf with the battle ax is about perfect IMO...the muls are still too skinny, I like the first HG pic, for a few reasons.

[SmashedTregil]

The last pic's HG's height is out of whack. The maximum height an HG can have is 155 inches. Which is just about twice the size of a tall human (78 inches).  I always wondered how can HGs weigh SO MUCH, with such little height. But I suppose that's why they were created via magickal means.

[NoteworthyFellow]

The last pic's HG's height is out of whack. The maximum height an HG can have is 155 inches. Which is just about twice the size of a tall human (78 inches).  I always wondered how can HGs weigh SO MUCH, with such little height. But I suppose that's why they were created via magickal means.

I'd say density, yeah.

[AmandaGreathouse]

HG's are pretty dense.

/pun

[UnderSeven]

I have a problem with anyone depicting elves as just a tall human.  Elves should look pretty freakish by human standards, they should NOT BE ANYTHING REMOTELY ATTRACTIVE (by human standards).  This whole fantasy elf thing where people imagine elves as some sort of romatic teh hotness person with pointy ears just doesn't fit the zalanthian version very well.  These are not tolkien elves, you are not playing legolass (however it's spelled). 

I agree the racial picture is way off because basically the person drew humans of varying height, and they're totally not.  A mul kills the mother to give birth to.  Therefore they have to be something that as a baby is too big for to be born.  Cross species mating is highly frowned on.  Now why would that be?  I think it goes beyond just racism in game, to the point where most people would probably look at individuals of other races as distgusting to get down with. 

I dunno why this all seems to come down to knocking boots with me and races, but I really feel that that is the main guiding force behind people making out every race to be some version of human.

[X-D]

I totally agree with Underseven.

It is known that I prefer to play dwarves, And though I have had at least one dwarf who would fuck pretty much anything alive...and even some things that were not. The rest look at anything but another dwarf with downright disgust to have sex with. The same applies with any other race I have played.

[Synthesis]

It is known that I prefer to play dwarves, And though I have had at least one dwarf who would fuck up pretty much anything alive...

[RogueGunslinger]

Aheh. Heh. X-D must have mistook himself for Malken there for a moment.

[Is Friday]

I have a problem with anyone depicting elves as just a tall human.  Elves should look pretty freakish by human standards, they should NOT BE ANYTHING REMOTELY ATTRACTIVE (by human standards).  This whole fantasy elf thing where people imagine elves as some sort of romatic teh hotness person with pointy ears just doesn't fit the zalanthian version very well.  These are not tolkien elves, you are not playing legolass (however it's spelled). 

I agree the racial picture is way off because basically the person drew humans of varying height, and they're totally not.  A mul kills the mother to give birth to.  Therefore they have to be something that as a baby is too big for to be born.  Cross species mating is highly frowned on.  Now why would that be?  I think it goes beyond just racism in game, to the point where most people would probably look at individuals of other races as distgusting to get down with. 

I dunno why this all seems to come down to knocking boots with me and races, but I really feel that that is the main guiding force behind people making out every race to be some version of human.

Buh, isn't there docs stating that delves are considered extremely sexy?

[Ampere]

I have a problem with anyone depicting elves as just a tall human.  Elves should look pretty freakish by human standards, they should NOT BE ANYTHING REMOTELY ATTRACTIVE (by human standards). 

Sorry, while elves look very different from humans (from the perspective of both races), they're not nearly alien as you would have us believe.  Humans and elves have sexually viable offspring, you know what that means?  Biologically they're the same species.

[RogueGunslinger]

Are you trying to inject science into a fantasy world, with magick?

[Agent_137]

Are you trying to inject science into a fantasy world, with magick?

a world must be logical and believable, even if its within its own unique set of rules that are outside our own real set. time and time again, you cannot just piss away the need for believability just because we have magick.

[UnderSeven]

I have a problem with anyone depicting elves as just a tall human.  Elves should look pretty freakish by human standards, they should NOT BE ANYTHING REMOTELY ATTRACTIVE (by human standards). 

Sorry, while elves look very different from humans (from the perspective of both races), they're not nearly alien as you would have us believe.  Humans and elves have sexually viable offspring, you know what that means?  Biologically they're the same species.

I'm not convinced.  I didn't in anywhere state contrary to your arguement.  I said they should look pretty freakish and be unattracative.  If you consider the variation between humans within the real world that small mutations can bring about than I would argue that the same species could produce some pretty freakish offspring.  That is assuming I buy your same species arguement, which I don't.


spe⋅cies   /ˈspiʃiz, -siz/  Show Spelled Pronunciation [spee-sheez, -seez]  Show IPA noun, plural -cies, adjective
–noun 1. a class of individuals having some common characteristics or qualities; distinct sort or kind.
2. Biology. the major subdivision of a genus or subgenus, regarded as the basic category of biological classification, composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to breed among themselves, but are not able to breed with members of another species.

hy⋅brid   /ˈhaɪbrɪd/  Show Spelled Pronunciation [hahy-brid]  Show IPA
–noun 1. the offspring of two animals or plants of different breeds, varieties, species, or genera


I point to the defintion of hybrid.  It is possible to have a hybrid of two different species but the same genus.  Weither or not elves and humans are the same species or not hasn't been scientifically proven yet, feel free to be the first to discover the truth.

[Ampere]

I have a problem with anyone depicting elves as just a tall human.  Elves should look pretty freakish by human standards, they should NOT BE ANYTHING REMOTELY ATTRACTIVE (by human standards). 

Sorry, while elves look very different from humans (from the perspective of both races), they're not nearly alien as you would have us believe.  Humans and elves have sexually viable offspring, you know what that means?  Biologically they're the same species.

I'm not convinced.  I didn't in anywhere state contrary to your arguement.  I said they should look pretty freakish and be unattracative.  If you consider the variation between humans within the real world that small mutations can bring about than I would argue that the same species could produce some pretty freakish offspring.  That is assuming I buy your same species arguement, which I don't.


spe⋅cies   /ˈspiʃiz, -siz/  Show Spelled Pronunciation [spee-sheez, -seez]  Show IPA noun, plural -cies, adjective
–noun 1. a class of individuals having some common characteristics or qualities; distinct sort or kind.
2. Biology. the major subdivision of a genus or subgenus, regarded as the basic category of biological classification, composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to breed among themselves, but are not able to breed with members of another species.

hy⋅brid   /ˈhaɪbrɪd/  Show Spelled Pronunciation [hahy-brid]  Show IPA
–noun 1. the offspring of two animals or plants of different breeds, varieties, species, or genera


I point to the defintion of hybrid.  It is possible to have a hybrid of two different species but the same genus.  Weither or not elves and humans are the same species or not hasn't been scientifically proven yet, feel free to be the first to discover the truth.

Really?...I mean REALLY?  You want a proof? Humans and elves produce sexually viable offspring, and do it ALL THE TIME.

I've quoted a wiki article as is the tradition of all scienticians.

It is surprisingly difficult to define the word "species" in a way that applies to all naturally occurring organisms, and the debate among biologists about how to define "species" and how to identify actual species is called the species problem.

Most textbooks follow Ernst Mayr's definition of a species as "groups of actually or potentially interbreeding natural populations, which are reproductively isolated from other such groups".[5]

Various parts of this definition serve to exclude some unusual or artificial matings:

    * Those which occur only in captivity (when the animal's normal mating partners may not be available) or as a result of deliberate human action.
    * Animals which may be physically and physiologically capable of mating but do not normally do so in the wild, for various reasons.
    * Animals whose offspring are normally sterile.

[Ocotillo]

So we are supposed to assume then that all half-elves come from rape?

[SMuz]

Because elves are so ugly to humans that a human would never willingly do it with one. Unless he was desperate.

[Is Friday]

Not buying it.

[UnderSeven]

I'm not arguing that all half elves are the result of rape, but seven + feet tall and skinny as a twig alone is pretty freakish.  As to the definition given of species I will argue that any elf/human inter breeding is a direct result of human interference and that if a former evolution of elf and human, a stupider version, had been around each other and breeding than there might well not be two seperate races.  Though honestly I think bringing biology into this as an arguement is reading far to much into this in the first place. 

Further on the where half elves come from.  I would say a vast portion of them probably come from other half elves.

[Moofassa]

To be honest, I don't care, because to me it's a game. Whenever I'm confused about something, I tell myself, this is a fantasy game, go fuck yourself Moofassa, and stop caring.


Then I play, and smile, and die. and smile.

[spawnloser]

No hybrid in the real world is sexually viable, as in all hybrids created of two species are sterile.  In the game, a mul would be a hybrid of two species, but since a half-elf is able to procreate, it is not a hybrid and it would mean that (on a purely scientific basis from the real world) elves and humans are two sub-species of the same species.

[NoteworthyFellow]

No hybrid in the real world is sexually viable, as in all hybrids created of two species are sterile.  In the game, a mul would be a hybrid of two species, but since a half-elf is able to procreate, it is not a hybrid and it would mean that (on a purely scientific basis from the real world) elves and humans are two sub-species of the same species.

Beautiful irony, isn't it?

[Yam]

No hybrid in the real world is sexually viable, as in all hybrids created of two species are sterile.  In the game, a mul would be a hybrid of two species, but since a half-elf is able to procreate, it is not a hybrid and it would mean that (on a purely scientific basis from the real world) elves and humans are two sub-species of the same species.

This is incorrect. Some interspecies hybrids are often sterile, but by no means is it an absolute. Most hybrids between domestic dogs and wolves/coyotes are also fertile.

[Jingo]

I think Xygax made a post a few years back saying that Elves and Humans arn't normally attracted to each other at all. I figure that's fair as a general rule. Half-elves generally result from rape, desperation and alcohol.

At the same time I think that a character is allowed to have one of those bizarre fetishes for another race. Though, this would be considered rather deviant. Everyone knows that Templar Hardnose has a thing for those krath-haired runners.

[alicedavignon]

I think Xygax made a post a few years back saying that Elves and Humans arn't normally attracted to each other at all. I figure that's fair as a general rule. Half-elves generally result from rape, desperation and alcohol.

At the same time I think that a character is allowed to have one of those bizarre fetishes for another race. Though, this would be considered rather deviant. Everyone knows that Templar Hardnose has a thing for those krath-haired runners.

I think that a struggle of classes would be a better explanation as to why the entire Known World doesn't consist entirely of half-elves. RL example? Colonisation. In Zal elves are regarded as lower species and a race of thieves, pretty much in the same way as western colonists considered African/American/etc natives to be brutish primates. Even many years decades later, it would still be uncommon for the members of two races to have a romantic relationship and have children (it certainly wouldn't be all right for a white guy to have a black wife in 1960 USA). Zal is yet another step more primitive where you have the class system of the nobles, the rich, the commoners and the lesser non-humans. A human female being together with an elf would have been a social equivalent of a medieval princess marrying a hunter. This, however, doesn't mean that the princess can't find the hunter handsome or visa versa.

As for elves being absolutely weak, yet extremely good runners, I can't think of any animal that would suit this description. I'm pretty sure that those tribesmen (in the video above) are pretty damn strong. I, for one, just ignore it and accept it as a game balancing issue. A two metre tall humanoid would have to posses a good deal of strength just to support the bulk of his own bones during his five hour long run.

[Ourla]

I'm not arguing that all half elves are the result of rape, but seven + feet tall and skinny as a twig alone is pretty freakish.

Don't forget that elves make up the second-most populous race on Zalanthas.  Humans wouldn't really think of them as "freakish," having grown up looking at them every day. 

[Bushranger]

Humans do date elves. PROOF!

[titansfan]

HAHA! That made my day....

[Fathi]

As for elves being absolutely weak, yet extremely good runners, I can't think of any animal that would suit this description.

Not 'absolutely weak,' but fairly skinny and possessing proportions that some might call awkward... yet also known for their running prowess. Granted, cheetahs are sprinters rather than endurance runners, but no real world example is gonna be perfect.

[Angela Christine]

Elves and humans weigh about the same (both races top out at 9 tenstone) but elves are about a foot taller.  Zalanthan humans are already pretty lean compared to even "fit" Americans, and elves are even leaner.  So basically we're talking runway models -- those walking coathangers are pretty freaky looking in person.  Since being "skinny" is not considered attractive in cultures were food is chronically scarce, so the very lean physique of elves is not considered attractive to humans in Zalanthas.

Maybe they look like this:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Southafrica468bushman.jpg


They could look as alien as you want.   Pomerainians  and great danes are the same species, but they don't look much alike.

[Taven]

No hybrid in the real world is sexually viable, as in all hybrids created of two species are sterile.  In the game, a mul would be a hybrid of two species, but since a half-elf is able to procreate, it is not a hybrid and it would mean that (on a purely scientific basis from the real world) elves and humans are two sub-species of the same species.

This is incorrect. Some interspecies hybrids are often sterile, but by no means is it an absolute. Most hybrids between domestic dogs and wolves/coyotes are also fertile.

Actually, there's dispute in the scientific community concerning dogs and wolves. Many would argue that they ARE the same species, for exactly that reason.

It would seem to me that TECHNIQUALLY elves and humans ARE the same species, although if you posed that idea ICly you'd likely be brutally murdered or disappeared by either group. I would argue that while physically different, elves and humans CAN produce fertile offspring, and so are one species. Think about dogs a moment. A poodle, a chiwawa and a grey hound look VERY different-- But ALL are considered to be the same species. They're different breeds of the same species, but they're all dogs.

I would have to agree that this debate is mostly an OOC concern, since any sane Zalanthian would rather have crotch rot, pustulating boils, and forced to endure the past-times of the opposit city state before even considering that they (and not just them, all humans or elves) are related.

[Jingo]

Maybe they look like this:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Southafrica468bushman.jpg

What? What the hell was that? I wasn't scarred for life.

Edit: Why do I fail at posting?

[Angela Christine]

What? What the hell was that? I wasn't scarred for life.

Have you been lulled into a false sense of security yet? 

[rishenko]

  (with a longer face)

+

(but with a more slender and less-muscular build)

[SMuz]

Hmm.. I think they're like ostriches. But without the powerful kicking.

[FantasyWriter]

Except for the face, of course.

[Synthesis]

Hmm.. I think they're like ostriches. But without the powerful kicking.

I've been kicked for 25 hp by an elf before....There goes that theory.

[Masterofthat]

Maybe elves actually are ostriches, in disguise. Although that brings up some very interesting question about half-elves.

[spicemustflow]

You try to blend into the crowd.

[RogueGunslinger]

It's even funnier because the smaller guy is standing behind the bigger guy.

[Moofassa]

im tall

[SMuz]

Hmm.. I think they're like ostriches. But without the powerful kicking.

I've been kicked for 25 hp by an elf before....There goes that theory.

Ostriches can kill with a kick

[alicedavignon]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that that cheetah could overpower me pretty easily too, especially if she gathered a little bit of momentum.

[titansfan]

Play more city elves people!!!!

*slinks away into the darkness*

[Synthesis]

Play more city elves people!!!!

*slinks away into the darkness*

The cake is a lie.

[Twilight]

When I saw Zoomanity in Vegas, there was this freakishly tall person that had done really odd things to their torso with a corset.  Maybe they are an elf.

I would try to find a picture, but Zoomanity is nsfw.

[Moofassa]

Elves are like the dude from Nightmare Before Christmas.

[FantasyWriter]

Elves are like the dude from Nightmare Before Christmas.

Moofassa wins.