A Critique

[Dar]

I'm in agreeement with Winterless here. I did not participate much in this thread, except voicing my opinion that ... some things mentioned here, should not really be mentioned so publicly. Both players and Imms. Not because it's untrue, it may very well be true, but because it causes all sorts of negativity that brings a lot of harm and 'very' little good.

[Morrolan]

We aren't allowed to design plots to kill players. Generally, we aren't allowed to kill players. If a player does die as a result of our actions, we need to send in a full report immediately.

>think Best Typo Ever!
>em laughs heartily
>feel happy
>em chews his lip
>think It was a typo, wasn't it?
>feel apprehensive
>change mood apprehensive
>scan

Other than that, I'd like to thank staff for their forthrightness in their responses.  Awesome, folks.  Like someone else said, it gave me some real insight into how staff works.

Morrolan

[Tallulah]

Upon reading this thread, and the analogies therein, it made me think of the movie Heathers.

Veronica's mom: When teenagers complain that they want to be treated like human beings, it's usually because they are being treated like human beings.

[alicedavignon]

A happier place, that is, until things like this thread pop up.

Alternatively you could argue that this better place is just closing one's eyes to existing problems. By all means, blissfully ignoring or rejecting the issues around you is not necessarily a bad attitude (no offence meant), but I do not think it is fair to expect this of everybody. Generally speaking, when somebody begins criticising (and by this I mean, constructively criticising) the game that he/she has been playing for four years, there might be something, that isn't necessarily wrong, but could be done better.

Even more importantly, the staff are the ones who should appreciate this criticism the most, as it is essentially a give-away piece advice. I am by no means someone who should dictate rules around here, but it is, generally speaking, a good idea to listen to the complains of your community and perhaps attempt to refine the criticised spots rather than go about like nothing happened.

At this point, I'd like to say that it was fun while it lasted and thank everybody for their warm reception. Bye-bye.

PS: To clarify, I was refering to the issues discussed in this topic. Not in the past one.

[Yam]

The things that you complained about are not problems.

[number13]

....it is, generally speaking, a good idea to listen to the complains of your community

Be a part of the community before you start worrying about our 'complains'.

I appreciate the inside look at staff's policies and general thinking. So this thread has it's silver lining.

[spawnloser]

Therefore, Players can truly do only three things: express their opinions (thank you bebop), keep playing (thank you current players), stop playing (thank you bebop.)

LOL!  Funniest thing you've said ever, Agent, even if unintentional.

...

Okay, seriously, this is going to come off harsh, but it's true.  You all suck.  My love of this game was killed for quite a while because of the GDB and the people posting on it.  It was also killed because of OOC communication and cliques.  As I recently said in another thread, I wasn't the one that removed myself from the community that is the GDB and all of you OOC chatters.  I was removed by all of you being cliquey twits.  (This is not intended as a flame but as a semi-humorous, semi-genuine complaint about OOC communication.)  This is the OOC game that is going on.  It has nothing to do with the players having to play an OOC game against the Staff... but the Staff having to deal with the OOC game that the players engage in.  I was once part of it and tried to limit what I told people because I believe that sharing IC information in an OOC manner ruins the game, especially because the people sharing the IC info are only sharing their perspective of it and not the entire truth which noone but the Staff are privy to.  I stopped communicating with people over AIM and etc because I realized that when talking about the game, I was learning IC information without the other intending to give me IC information, mostly based off of what the person was talking about and what the person didn't talk about... and realized that I was handing out IC information without intending to as well.  This game would be better, in many ways, if there was no GDB... no way for the players to form OOC networks that share IC details and opinions about IC events or even opinions about their interactions with the staff... because it only reinforces the clique behavior and the OOC spread of IC information.  For example, there are people that I can now identify in their characters because of how they type, commonly made typos, etc... and then, in turn, I can identify their friends that they ALWAYS play with, forming friendships in game because they are friends out of game, being loyal to each other in game because they are loyal to each other out of game.  I think that is one of the most TRAGIC things that happens in this game, and I'll tell you why.  When you do this, you aren't playing the same game as the rest of us but one where the main focus of the game, eat or be eaten, struggle, suspicion and distrust... these are all gone when you can instantly trust this other person just because s/he is played by your RL friend.  Malifaxis is one of my best friends.  I would not hesitate and I know he would not hesitate to backstab the other's character, literally or figuratively, even with full knowledge that the other's character was played by the other.  Cuusardo is my wife, and the same thing goes there.  THAT is Armageddon.  Stop playing the OOC game and start playing the IC game and you will enjoy it so much more.

As far as the complaints about Vanth's post?  Stuff it, guys.  Bebop made it personal and public.  Any private response would be, in some small way, a capitulation to someone that feels her opinion is better than that of players that have been playing 2, 3, 4 times as long as she has... that feels her opinion is better than that of the staff, who I would be willing to bet have all been with the game longer than she has, first as players.    Going back to the 'kids/guests in the house' analogy... she's been naughty and treated in such fashion, so she whined and complained to the rest of the people in the house, so Mom had to set the story straight so that none of the other kids/guests started buying into the warped and limited view of the story as presented by Bebop.  Final thing to say on this portion of this thread:  Thank you Vanth, for your post, because I think it was well-warranted and long-overdue.

Anything else I could say has already been said, so I will not repeat it.  You're all big boys and girls and can read for yourselves.

[Yam]

Therefore, Players can truly do only three things: express their opinions (thank you bebop), keep playing (thank you current players), stop playing (thank you bebop.)

LOL!  Funniest thing you've said ever, Agent, even if unintentional.

...

Okay, seriously, this is going to come off harsh, but it's true.  You all suck.  My love of this game was killed for quite a while because of the GDB and the people posting on it.  It was also killed because of OOC communication and cliques.  As I recently said in another thread, I wasn't the one that removed myself from the community that is the GDB and all of you OOC chatters.  I was removed by all of you being cliquey twits.  (This is not intended as a flame but as a semi-humorous, semi-genuine complaint about OOC communication.)  This is the OOC game that is going on.  It has nothing to do with the players having to play an OOC game against the Staff... but the Staff having to deal with the OOC game that the players engage in.  I was once part of it and tried to limit what I told people because I believe that sharing IC information in an OOC manner ruins the game, especially because the people sharing the IC info are only sharing their perspective of it and not the entire truth which noone but the Staff are privy to.  I stopped communicating with people over AIM and etc because I realized that when talking about the game, I was learning IC information without the other intending to give me IC information, mostly based off of what the person was talking about and what the person didn't talk about... and realized that I was handing out IC information without intending to as well.  This game would be better, in many ways, if there was no GDB... no way for the players to form OOC networks that share IC details and opinions about IC events or even opinions about their interactions with the staff... because it only reinforces the clique behavior and the OOC spread of IC information.  For example, there are people that I can now identify in their characters because of how they type, commonly made typos, etc... and then, in turn, I can identify their friends that they ALWAYS play with, forming friendships in game because they are friends out of game, being loyal to each other in game because they are loyal to each other out of game.  I think that is one of the most TRAGIC things that happens in this game, and I'll tell you why.  When you do this, you aren't playing the same game as the rest of us but one where the main focus of the game, eat or be eaten, struggle, suspicion and distrust... these are all gone when you can instantly trust this other person just because s/he is played by your RL friend.  Malifaxis is one of my best friends.  I would not hesitate and I know he would not hesitate to backstab the other's character, literally or figuratively, even with full knowledge that the other's character was played by the other.  Cuusardo is my wife, and the same thing goes there.  THAT is Armageddon.  Stop playing the OOC game and start playing the IC game and you will enjoy it so much more.

As far as the complaints about Vanth's post?  Stuff it, guys.  Bebop made it personal and public.  Any private response would be, in some small way, a capitulation to someone that feels her opinion is better than that of players that have been playing 2, 3, 4 times as long as she has... that feels her opinion is better than that of the staff, who I would be willing to bet have all been with the game longer than she has, first as players.    Going back to the 'kids/guests in the house' analogy... she's been naughty and treated in such fashion, so she whined and complained to the rest of the people in the house, so Mom had to set the story straight so that none of the other kids/guests started buying into the warped and limited view of the story as presented by Bebop.  Final thing to say on this portion of this thread:  Thank you Vanth, for your post, because I think it was well-warranted and long-overdue.

Anything else I could say has already been said, so I will not repeat it.  You're all big boys and girls and can read for yourselves.

I'll always miss Spawnloser's presence in the game.

[spawnloser]

Hey, I'm still playing.   I just don't tell anyone who I'm playing or share any details about my current characters with anyone except those two that I mentioned that I know will not favor my character just because it is my character... and I still don't tell them much.  I also haven't been doing leadership roles for a while.  I got tired of being responsible for other people's fun... or at least having others think that way about me.  I love this game... I just hit that wall that Vanth mentioned, and I finally got past it by doing exactly as I described above.

[Yam]

Hey, I'm still playing.   I just don't tell anyone who I'm playing or share any details about my current characters with anyone except those two that I mentioned that I know will not favor my character just because it is my character... and I still don't tell them much.  I also haven't been doing leadership roles for a while.  I got tired of being responsible for other people's fun... or at least having others think that way about me.  I love this game... I just hit that wall that Vanth mentioned, and I finally got past it by doing exactly as I described above.

Oh. I'm glad you still play then. I thought you said above that you did not.

Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon Crackageddon

[Eloran]

Actually, I'm very interested in seeing yours Shalooonsh. 

[Archbaron]

For some reason, reading Olgaris' post and account notes makes me feel much better about the game. Hard to explain.

[Olgaris]

Spawnloser's first paragraph hit a number of important points that I agree with very much. Read it again. Then read it another time.

[jhunter]

Spawnloser is totally right. I watched a group of people constantly attack him until he just disappeared from the GDB altogether. It pissed me off honestly. Vanth's post was justified in my opinion and it made me feel alot better about past experiences where I wonder if I may have been on the wrong end of favoritism. Maybe it was just purely IC and I was just unlucky to have the pc where I did at that point in the staff's plot.

[Cutthroat]

The use of IC information gained OOCly does unspeakable damage to the game. Luckily, it's easy to restrict who you talk to.

Also, I found this post on the Archives to be a good example of how OOC communication can be so bad:
http://www.armageddon.org/HyperNews/get/general-archive1996/7.html

[tortall]

The use of IC information gained OOCly does unspeakable damage to the game. Luckily, it's easy to restrict who you talk to.

Also, I found this post on the Archives to be a good example of how OOC communication can be so bad:
http://www.armageddon.org/HyperNews/get/general-archive1996/7.html

Damn, that's a pretty nifty story. I like it!

[Semper]

The use of IC information gained OOCly does unspeakable damage to the game. Luckily, it's easy to restrict who you talk to.

Also, I found this post on the Archives to be a good example of how OOC communication can be so bad:
http://www.armageddon.org/HyperNews/get/general-archive1996/7.html

You know, I've read this story before, but every time I read it, I still get upset at the potential that was lost. *shakes head* I'm sure people will continue to use OOC as long as we have the internet and the like...but for the love of the game, try not to do so.

[Zalanthan]

Also, I found this post on the Archives to be a good example of how OOC communication can be so bad:
http://www.armageddon.org/HyperNews/get/general-archive1996/7.html

It's an interesting story and serves as a pretty good example.  It's also ironic the author's rant ended up spreading OOC information on the existence of sleep and doppleganger magicks, and to a lot more than ten or twenty people.  I've had the fortune to witness very little magick of any kind in game, so I doubt I would have ever come across a sleeping spell anyways, but now if I do it won't seem as extraordinary. To quote from the link, "[e]ven seemingly insignificant things like this, hurt the game, and ruin other people's fun."

[Majikal]

One of those the good outweighs the bad kind of things I think though. Yea, sleep magicks and doppleganger shit. Lessons worth far more though.

[Delstro]

I am really wanting to play again after reading the last few imm posts. I am amazed at hw many comments they received. I need to stop playing Joe Schmoes!

[Agent_137]

nothing wrong with boring Amoses, as long as you keep in touch with your Imms, have desires, dreams and failures, then ask for your account notes about every 6 months, you will get your karma!

[titansfan]

My biggest thing with all this matter is interaction. I've always been one with ideas and such and always tried to get in touch with Imms. But alot of times I don't get answered, and I -used- to get very menacing replies to some emails. I like to be as polite and respectful in emails as possible, so those early experiences kind of shyed me away. Then I got a couple bad account notes and I thought my world had ended. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm one of those players who have gone under the radar and am to afraid to get noticed because I still fear that the imms have a general dislike for me, for whatever reason. I guess what would be nice is if I could get some kind of personal report, but then again I understand how hard it is to spot one single player out of many.