A Critique

[Bebop]

As a player of four years that has stopped being involved in the game, I would like to offer this following critique of the game.  It's your choice to read it, but as a player that is quitting that has played for four years and has a few points of karma or so I would like offer my opinion as I currently do not care if I return to the game or not this is non-bias and extremely candid.  We've been talking a lot lately about player retention and since it appears I am bowing out I would like to offer my perspective.

First, I would like to say that Armageddon is an amazing game.  For a long while I viewed Armageddon as a magnificent piece of art, some what on par with a great literary work that never ends.  The players and staff that created this functional (though admittedly not always realistic) world and the standard that they created in my mind are pretty incredible.

But after playing for four years, I'm very disappointed to find myself well, disappointed and a little bit jaded.  My perspective of Armageddon is tarnished and it's kind of like watching George Lucas twist Star Wars or having all of the copies in the world of your favorite book destroyed.

Regardless of how apathetic people seem to be, Armageddon has (to be a little deadpan) been a great and big part of my life.  It's been a middle ground for my fiance, I've met many friends on here that have even helped me with some tough times.  This game has brought me to tears and I've seen it bring six happy couples together so far that likely would never have met otherwise.  That's why I believe this is earnestly worth saying because I would like to see Armageddon succeed.  With that being said, here are some of my opinions of Armageddon and why I feel it's broke.

A Lack of Common Goals

This part is brief.  In the time I've been playing while the staff correspondences here are significantly better than some other online gaming communities I find there is still a significant lack of professionalism.  E-mails are not returned on time.  Roles are offered and players are not responded to for weeks or months.  IMMs can be short, sarcastic and even cruel in communication on the GDB and e-mail - definitely they are bias.  I have been playing for four years, in all those years I've heard discussion about upgrading the website (the game's first impression) to something more comprehensive and eye catching.  This has never been done.  Greatly appreciated tweaks have been made but it seems like effort isn't going where effort is due.  Case in point the new chat room system, but I'll get to that.  Overall there seems to be a general lack of organization.  Where the documentation was once very concise it seems that the documentation is currently always being changed or added to.


New Immortals - New Vision

Though many of the immortals have come in and done an amazing job I have a very huge concern about seniority.  There is a real lack of seniority right now.  Many IMMs that were around when I first started playing seem to have fallen away.  New IMMs are being introduced more and more, sometimes when I am in a clan I get a response from an IMM that I had never heard of, is not listed as an IMM for my clan and an IMM I never heard announced.  It's just like player retention - IMM retention is just as important.  If we can't keep senior immortals (and not just coders) what kind of standard is set for the new IMMs, and are they changing the standard.  It's like when you love a movie and then a new director makes the sequal and it's just not the same.  How is that effecting the game?

This game has a foundation.  The past has been successful.  The previous IMMs helped make this game what it is.  Suddenly it seems the entire game is being flushed out for a new one.  A new one that had no guarantee to be as successful with new IMMs that did not initially help this game become what it was.  I feel there is a general lack of focus and game is degrading because of that.  Let's go back to the movie analogy.  The Matrix was huge, it was one of the biggest sci-fi kicks in a long while, the mythology started out being pretty darned intriguing.  Then the focus went to graphics and innovative cinematography instead of story and handful of years later the sequels are sitting on the four dollar rack at the grocery store.

Without IMMs to maintain a standard - the standard that brought this game ten years of success, I fear that a few things are happening.  One is a slow disregard for the documentation.  Clans are shifting and changing constantly and not necessarily to so much fit the game world that we've all come to love but to fit the newer "generation" of IMM desires.

New Changes to Clans and Storytelling

I have to say I'm greatly surprised about this change.  While I think that lumping the cities and their areas of society and otherwise was a good idea, I'm lost on all of the rest.  This was marketed to be something that will give players more capability.  This won't happen for several reasons.  The only real change I saw was that PC leaders are no longer going to be animated.

1) Now IMMs will have less time as they will be answering e-mails and animating NPCs - E-mails are already not responded to and lead to character storing in clans.

2) Now IMMS will be able to manipulate the storyline using e-mail, final say and animating NPCs that have the ability to change your character's storyline while at the same time being privy to all OOC information being sent their way.

This comes after not long ago there was a rule to decide that clans were going to be shifted.  They were hardly ever shifted and player fears came to life.  Sometimes clan that was once working like a well oiled machine changed direction under the new IMMs.  NPCs that had once faired one way, faired the other.  New IMMs had to be put up to speed after the shift.  It seems there has been lots of change to fill the front page but a real lack of substantiality and stability that the players can rely on.  The code maybe better and sometimes the service in some circumstance has become more dependable, but has the story really gotten any better?  Has the game really become more intriguing because of it?  I say no.  And I think no is in the numbers as I watch jaded players that played for years fall off the game one by one.

Not to mention I was enormously surprised to find the new chat system where people can create their own chats and mod them.  Not that this isn't already happening on various social websites and messenger systems but for IMMs to actually encourage this OOC spread of information and ability to create more clichés is really incredible to me.  Especially when there are so many other ways that funds (monetary or time wise) could be utilized.

Armageddon is an OOC Game - Politics and Elitism.

This is my final point and my largest.  Armageddon is an OOC game.  One may not notice it at first in the early stages of "newbdom."  But one quickly begins to understand that one must participate in an OOC game along with the IC one.  Is it worth it?  It might be - until you lose the OOC side and it begins to effect the IC.

The entire karma system is currently set up in a way that players are punished if their OOC communication is not up to par.  Even so much that it stifles progress in the game because players can not offer up due criticism for fear of being nerfed on special application or leadership roles.  This is a very real problem.  It's an obvious problem.  And it's something that is disgusted on the various OOC channels of communication every single day.

It has been made very clear that the Armageddon community is not one of a democracy but one that it is totalitarian in nature making players even more dependant.  It reminds me of George Lucas making millions off of his fans and then saying that he doesn't take into consideration their criticism to his films.  The IMMs are holding all of the cards and criticism of their leadership is not only condemned and discouraged but punished whenever someone may apply for a role.  Bad account notes are actually put onto your account for GDB and OOC interactions regardless of your role play capabilities or success in former leadership roles.  Regardless of how you may benefit the story of Armageddon the line of OOC discussion is a hard one to balance.  Not only in receiving a role but advancing your mundane character as well, even within the bounds of realism.

I think what IMMS and even players may fail to understand is that criticism is crucile not only to a relationship but to a changing community and a community that wants to continue to improve.  I don't think players or IMMs should so much concern themselves with if the person criticizing is good at doing so constructively so much as if their criticism has validity instead of ultimately punishing that person if you don't agree or if they come off in a way you don't like.

The meat of this part of my critique is that the OOC game is one that everyone loses and one that we all play and it's getting worse for several reasons.  It's the elephant in the room so to speak.  I've had great OOC interactions, including the APM.  And I think people can definitely handle OOC information many times (though not all of the times) without letting it hinder their RP abilities.  But my issue comes whenever OOC politics become a game you must play in order to gain an advantage.

Conclusion

This is my conclusion as someone who wants the best for this game.  I recently had two very bad experiences with this game where role play and documentation were completely ignored.  Before that I had stepped away from the game for about two months.  I had those experiences stepped back a month, came back and played and then stepped back again.  I submitted one application where I felt I had done well before and could significantly attempt to make the game engaging only to never receive an e-mail regarding it.  Four years ago as a newb I played a character for three real life months that had no problem with magickers and ended up bedding one.  Through the course of three months the story was amazing.  I was enslaved, I was attacked, I worked various jobs regardless of guild.  In fact I think I only fought once.  When I got knocked up by a magicker I was attacked, cursed, warned and made an outcast.  Four real life years later, I walked into a tavern as a northerner and got pats on the back and smiles from a southron crowd in one of the grungiest southside tavern.  My first reaction was, seriously?  In the past months I've seen thing, after thing, after thing, after thing that clearly completely defies and entirely ignores the documentation.  The grittiness feels gone.  Let's face it, when you're into a character - and I mean IN to a character, that character becomes a part of you.  You bring that character to life.  That's an opportunity reserved for writers, artists and actors.  Armageddon gives us the opportunity to escape from monotony, learn and make some friends along the way.  I'm becoming more and more disheartened to see that process become discarded due to lack of respect for the foundation of the game.

I would really like to come back to the game.  I would really truly like to.  (After this criticism I may not be wanted back).  But my enthusiasm for it is really waning to the point I don't know if I ever will.  If I don't come back I felt those things at least needed to be said if I bow out permanently.

[staggerlee]

I'd really like to see a coherent mission statement from the staff.  I think it'd clear up a lot of misunderstandings and help ensure that staff and players were working toward a common goal.

I think that a lot of the conflict regarding Arm revolves around misunderstandings and poor communication.

[Majikal]

I think that a lot of the conflict regarding Arm revolves around misunderstandings and poor communication.

[jhunter]

I think that a lot of the conflict regarding Arm revolves around misunderstandings and poor communication.

[RogueGunslinger]

I think that a lot of the conflict regarding Arm revolves around misunderstandings and poor communication.

I guess I should also state that I've not seen what you're describing, Bebop, though I think criticisms like this help the game, and help us gain perspective as well.

[Ampere]

Some obvious things, some asinine things...far too many things.

I thought her post was long.

[Jingo]

For what it's worth, we can criticise someone's point of view without making personal attacks. If Bebop doesn't like where the game is headed, then she can say it without getting a bunch of shit sprayed on her.

[Synthesis]

Yeah, I don't see any of the listed problems as actually being problems.

Of course, I don't really get into the social aspect of the game much.

Rest assured:  the "wandering around a harsh, unforgiving deserted wasteland killing shit to survive" aspect of the game is just great

Except for the defense nerf, but I'm all cried out about that.  Maybe one more tear. 

[Jingo]

As for the post itself, I think she did make a couple of good points. Though I honestly think most of what was brought up were non-issues.

1. Immortals

Yes, IMMs can be dicks. Even though 90% of my immteractions has been positive. At least one immortal has achieved some kind of legendary bogeyman status. Which kind of makes me . Even though I appreciate the work they do for the game (and on my special apps). My best guess is that they occupuy some sort of good-cop bad-cop kind of role in which they are the bad-cop that comes out to do all the dirty work.

I've also had an immortal accuse me of trying to trick them into giving me a stat boost. Kind of laughable when I look back at it. But I did actually take it personally at the time.

I think that overall the immortals are great. Even though I've had a couple of bad expieriences.

I don't think that any of the new immortals are trying to drive the game in a certain direction. That happens naturally.

2. Elitism

The second issue is the ooc community. I hope I'm just paranoid, but I've noticed a few ooc cliques appear in and around the game. Including immortals. I think this is what Bebop was getting at. It wouldn't be hard to imagine that the character or future characters might benefit for being a part of these ooc cliques.

I would agree with her that this is an "elephant in the room" and not discussed at all really.

I do disagree with her that nobody should be docked karma for ooc interactions. If someone is spreading ic sensitive info oocly, they should get their nipples cut off and have them ritually burned.

I also disagree that criticisms of the immortals or the elites immediately get squashed and suffer karma loss. If I thought that would happen, I would leave the game.

[Zoan]

It's all mansa's fault.

[Drayab]

For what it's worth, we can criticise someone's point of view without making personal attacks. If Bebop doesn't like where the game is headed, then she can say it without getting a bunch of shit sprayed on her.

QFT

[Tallulah]

What I'm wondering is, why do you care enough to spend all this time typing out a long post to criticize a game that you say you aren't playing anymore? 

[SMuz]

What I'm wondering is, why do you care enough to spend all this time typing out a long post to criticize a game that you say you aren't playing anymore? 

Looks like anger. I could understand what she's getting at.

But IMHO, it looks like some people take the game too seriously. I mean, relax. It's just a game.. cheating, biased referees, winning or losing, it's still just a game. I would hate to be good enough at this game to care about how the imms treat me. IMHO, I'm happy that the imms put so much effort at all into the game. It's extraordinarily rare to find any game out there where you can do a stat request, heck, even e-mail one of the people in charge of the game and have them affect it. What's even more amazing is that the game is free. I'm happy if it means that my character is an object to be played with just as long as the game's free.

Appreciate the little things more. With almost every other game in the world - if you e-mailed the people who created it with a suggestion, you will not get a response in a week. There are loads of walkthroughs and exploits that ruin the game for everyone, especially for games like DoTA and Fallout. That is carefully, almost fanatically guarded against in Armageddon. Even with all the OOC things happening, it's nothing near as bad as in any other game.

Look at it from the bright side and just have fun. And if you can't, there are dozens of other great RPIs out there.

[Cutthroat]

This is the part of your post I disagree with most strongly.

This game has a foundation.  The past has been successful.  The previous IMMs helped make this game what it is.  Suddenly it seems the entire game is being flushed out for a new one.

Recent code changes as well as policy changes to the game tend to prove what you say above is false. There is a great amount of attention on the current game. I haven't been around as long as you have (almost two years now) but maybe that helps me to provide a more current view. I invite you to take a look at staff announcements and code changes, and you will see that the staff does care about us and the game we currently play. There are also pretty rapid responses on e-mails despite the new change to storytelling. This can't be proven by us telling you, though. You'd have to jump in the game and see for yourself that these changes are good overall.

A new one that had no guarantee to be as successful with new IMMs that did not initially help this game become what it was.  I feel there is a general lack of focus and game is degrading because of that.

You have to realize that new staff are old players. So let's fix your sentence up a bit:

"A new [game] that had no guarantee to be as successful with old players that did not initially help this game become what it was."

I beg to differ. Old players helped this game become what it was as much as old staffers have. Therefore, I see no problem with focus or a degrading game.

[Morrolan]

I believe that Bebop's perspective has things to offer.  I would consider it an excellent exit-interview.  I am not saying that I agree with her perspective, but I do believe that it should be valued as honest and considered within its context.  I hope that it will be.  Bebop has obviously been involved in parts of the game that I have not.

I would appreciate it if people would respond to Bebop's concerns with a bit of compassion, if not agreement.  She has clearly been a part of this community for a while, and a committed member, at that.  If her post reflects bias, I can hardly fault her for that.  Leaving a community in which one is so entangled with would be an emotional time for anyone.

Defending Arm does not mean "defeating Bebop" but rather looking at what her position has to offer the community, and what it does not.  Bebop is not "the enemy" unless she is a personal enemy anyway.  The changes that have happened to Arm, that are bound to happen over time, are not ones that will make all the players happy.  Some will leave.  New ones will come.  But flaming arguments can hardly improve the noted situation of OOC cliques.  Taking her "attack" on Arm personally is not a solution to any problem.

So please, let's take a step back, take a few deep breaths, and get on with the game that is Armageddon.

Morrolan


--edit: please note that my post is now somewhat superfluous, because the posts I was generally responding to have been removed.

[brytta.leofa]

The second issue is the ooc community. I hope I'm just paranoid, but I've noticed a few ooc cliques appear in and around the game. Including immortals. I think this is what Bebop was getting at. It wouldn't be hard to imagine that the character or future characters might benefit for being a part of these ooc cliques.

Cliquishness, or some appearance of it, is inevitable as long as we have sponsored/apped roles, and unless the staff get buried in bureaucracy designed to prevent it.  Each staff member is surely going to wind up with mental lists:
- Who are the most colorful roleplayers?
- Who's good at in-game leadership?
- Who tends to ignore documentation or otherwise play unrealistically?  (By this I mean twinking, and by twinking I mean kittens.)
- Who stirs up headaches for me outside the game ("subpar OOC communication")?

So long as the staff keep some checks on each other and are mindful of their own occasional fallibility, this isn't a particularly bad thing.

[Nyr]

Disagree with each other.
Disagree with the staff if you'd like.

Don't break forum rules and flame people.

I'd be more than happy to temporarily remove posting privileges from people who break those rules.
If you want to respond to the OP, please do so in a nicer manner.  It is possible to disagree with someone without being a dick about it.
If you want to respond to people criticizing your posts, please do so in a nicer manner.  It is possible to disagree with someone without being a dick about it.
If you don't want criticism for the things you write and publish in an internet forum, do not post them there.

[Marauder Moe]

Whoa... there's a lot going on in this thread.  There's a lot of good points about imperfections the game has.  Too much for me to comment on at the moment, hehe.

One thing I will say, though, is that people always miss the "Good Old Days" of anything.  Bebop, you miss the good old days of people hating on magickers and throwing drinks at their ungemmed mates (me too, those days were fun!  ), but back then I know a lot of players missed the good old days of the Tuluki Rebellion, and back then I'm sure there were people who missed the good old days of clerics and PC mantis hanging out in the Gaj.

It's nostalgia, and I think it's natural and unavoidable.  Even if things do shift back towards past levels of magicker-hate or a new rebellion, it won't feel the same as anyone's memories.

You even said as much yourself:

But after playing for four years, I'm very disappointed to find myself well, disappointed and a little bit jaded.  My perspective of Armageddon is tarnished

Your lack of enjoyment of the game is partly your own fault too, not just a result of the changes that have occurred.  Temper your attachment to the past and perhaps you can once again enjoy Armageddon for what it is now.
(Please don't take that as a mocking of your beliefs, I'm a fan of Buddhism myself.  My dad decided to become a Buddhist in recent years too.)

[Morgenes]

Re: OOC Chat Rooms

To give some context, the chat rooms were designed before Arm 2 was announced as a proof of concept for the engine that Arm 2 engine uses.  Aside from some cosmetic changes it has remained unchanged for years.  Despite any appearances to the contrary, Armageddon 2 is far more than just a chat room.

The staff has not announced what the player facing side of the chat rooms will be.  For now they are used as a means of communication for staff and we plan to utilize them for newbie helping and for player/staff meetings like the one held last Saturday.  We may or may not open it up to allow players to chat, but if we do there will be two rules:

1) You won't be able to be in the game and in the chat rooms.

2) Everything will be logged and reviewed for abuse of OOC knowledge.

Stepping aside from the standard staff message, my view of the OOC chat rooms is as a place for staff and players to meet and talk in a more informal manner, as well as allow people to grow as a community like they do here on the GDB.   A place for players to organize outside of the game without having to know the latest IM or chat channel technology.  It's built into the engine. 

However, this is my view, and may not necessarily be what comes to pass.  I imagine at a minimum it will be used for staff, newbie helping and player/staff meetings.

[Thunkkin]

I really fail to see how increased communication between staff and players (chat rooms) could be a bad thing.  Aren't we all clamoring for more communication with staff and more transparency?  I for one appreciate the chat room and the possibility of using it in Arm 2 for easier communication with the staff, etc.

On a second note, while I think "exit surveys" or whatever are useful (just like the "first impressions" threads), the difficulty in publicly posting them is that necessary information is (and must be) left out.  With all context removed, claims/critiques can be read in a very open fashion.  Thus, as a beginner, when I read about OOC cliques excluding players from roles, etc., what runs through -my- mind is "Gee, yeah, I could see the frustration if one felt that one wasn't being allowed to play a half-giant or a krathi or something due to behind the scenes politics."  However, in a post now removed so I won't get specific, it was revealed what roles Bebop has been playing.  Roles that made my jaw drop.  Trust me, as someone with ZERO karma, I wouldn't be angry if I was so thoroughly excluded as to be given top karma, spec app-only roles like that.  For now, I'm eagerly looking forward to the day when I can play a d-elf. 

[RogueGunslinger]

I really fail to see how increased communication between staff and players (chat rooms) could be a bad thing.  Aren't we all clamoring for more communication with staff and more transparency?  I for one appreciate the chat room and the possibility of using it in Arm 2 for easier communication with the staff, etc.

On a second note, while I think "exit surveys" or whatever are useful (just like the "first impressions" threads), the difficulty in publicly posting them is that necessary information is (and must be) left out.  With all context removed, claims/critiques can be read in a very open fashion.  Thus, as a beginner, when I read about OOC cliques excluding players from roles, etc., what runs through -my- mind is "Gee, yeah, I could see the frustration if one felt that one wasn't being allowed to play a half-giant or a krathi or something due to behind the scenes politics."  However, in a post now removed so I won't get specific, it was revealed what roles Bebop has been playing.  Roles that made my jaw drop.  Trust me, as someone with ZERO karma, I wouldn't be angry if I was so thoroughly excluded as to be given top karma, spec app-only roles like that.  For now, I'm eagerly looking forward to the day when I can play a d-elf. 

What bebop was saying, is that only a select few people will be using the chat rooms and they will, by nature, enforce cliquishness. Not everyone even uses the GDB, they just play the game. And those players should be getting just as much attention as people who aren't playing the 'OOC game' as she calls it.

You kind of just enforced her point with the second paragraph(I think...*shrug*). Obviously she -was- playing the 'OOC game', and was winning al la her garnering such high karma roles. But now she's on the losing side, and as such, is sick of the 'OOC game'.

[Ourla]

Obviously she -was- playing the 'OOC game', and was winning al la her garnering such high karma roles.

Or maybe... just maybe... she earned them.  Through trustworthiness and good RP.  Maybe.   

[RogueGunslinger]

Yeah, hence the (I think... *shrug*)

I was thinking what I said was her point, not mine.

[Riev]

I just don't understand what the big deal is with the new fad of "Here is why I don't play Armageddon, and when you fix these issues, maybe you'll gain me back as a player" threads lately.

Many points that Bebop has made, I think are valid. Likewise, there are some that I believe only a few people actually see anyways, and perhaps are either a moot point, or something that only affects a small percentage of the entire player base. I remember Momma Gimfy and her Player Stats threads a while back, and we usually get like 200 unique logins a month (If not more, my brain is stupid). If 15 people are experiencing some OOC politics, or favoritism that affects others play, thats actually not TOO bad.

I've only recently started playing characters that aren't entirely code based (TWINKS) and focus more on personal relationships and the like. I havn't noticed a problem at -all-, except that if I don't know them OOCly, its hard to know when they are around to talk to.


Passing that:

It's nostalgia, and I think it's natural and unavoidable.  Even if things do shift back towards past levels of magicker-hate or a new rebellion, it won't feel the same as anyone's memories.

I think Moe has it, right here. I'm a HUGE fan of nostalgia. Whenever I hear stories of the "Game of Old" I get chills down my spine about "How cool it must have been to play back then". I love nostalgia in real life too. I hate modern cartoons. But you know what? Now I watch sitcoms, and excellent adult-themed TV shows aimed at my generation. Maybe this is what old Armers need to try to do; accept that the old days are over, and look for something themed at them (Or, if they don't exist, beg the imms for it!)

[Twilight]

Communication:  Staff can be curt.  Especially when you were expecting a paragraph instead of a sentance, this can be offputting, but I think you get used to it, once you change expectations.  That is as close to un-professionalism as I have seen, even when I was getting a beat down.

New Imms vs Old Imms:  I haven't noticed a problem, except that I can't play like I did 10-12 years ago and expect the same response from the staff.  However, this is just my perception, and although I would think it would apply more to new Imms than old ones, I don't know for sure.  For example, certain interactions felt like the staff was expecting me to use think or email them my activities.  I've been playing since long before think, much less feel, and I still hate it with a passion, refusing to use it more than minimally.  And I have never consistenty emailed staff.  Yet, now, as opposed to 10+ years ago, that seems to be the expectation.  New Imms might not have that perspective, but who really knows.

Chat Rooms:  Maybe all my misconceptions about staff in the previous paragraph will be cleared up if there was a way aside from APM to have actual conversations with staff.  Maybe not, too.