A Critique

[RogueGunslinger]

I've had good experiences with the game, that don't seem to fit what everyone is complaining about here.
I have my own concerns and frustrations, but these aren't them. We make our own hell.

[Ampere]

Minus the lure-into-apartment-lock-door-and-start-hacking incidents that apparantly still happen. Seriously people. You can do better.

I've yet to do this myself, but it's an entirely valid tactic --- I think it's rare that a (knive wielding) murderer would try to bring down their victim in a field.

[helix]

I left Arm about two months ago, and have little desire to return. I'll list my own reasons, as I don't agree with some of Bebop's. Others, however, I do.

Permissive vs. Non-Permissive: Arm, in my opinion, is a very non-permissive environment. It's been my experience that, no matter how good my roleplay there are some things that just won't be accomplished. Most of these things have to do with code - a merchant won't learn how to use a sword. A warrior won't learn how to hide. I'm not sure why the stance on this is the way that it is, but in my opinion, roleplay should be the fundamental goal of any system within the game. Not 'enforcing the harshness of the gameworld' or anything like that. Not enforcing class boundries. The end all of Arm should be to further the player's roleplay experience.

The crux of this particular matter came when I roleplayed out language lessons - eleven hours worth. Taking months, OOCly. Still, no branch of the language. I submitted a request to get it added and was told that - no matter how many logs I submitted, it wasn't going to happen because there was already a coded mechanism in place for this.

Communication: Like others have noted, communication is a cornerstone of a lot of player's problems. I've had the comment made to me that I had inadvertantly completely borked  a staffer's plot - of which I knew nothing about. Staff need to remember that in order for the players to think there is something going on, staff need to give them hints. I don't mean tell them everything - but subtle and not so subtle mentions in emails go a long way.

One thing I like about another RPI MUD I started to play after Arm is that there's a Staff Rumor Thread, where the STAFF posts rumors about what's happening in the clan, or if big enough, the gameworld. That gives me, the player, a framework to shoot for - I know that there's likely some footwork to be done on those plots, and I can put my character in a position to get that footwork done so as to involve other players.

I went back through and counted: I had two emails answered in eight months. Both with less than five words. That's a problem. At one point, my character was walking around with something in his pack that no normal non-noble/templar character should ever, ever possess. I sent in four emails - including two to MUD. No response. Eventually I chucked it in a chest like any other piece of junk, and when I got new staffers someone sent me the email, "Hey - do you still have that?" Heh.

Enabling vs. Disabling: Much like the non-permissiveness of the world, I've felt that my plots were cast aside in favor of imm-created ones. Those that I did attempt to bring about tended to either be ignored, or I was simply told that I couldn't do that, ICly and OOCly.

It's much more interesting and rewarding, especially for someone that plays a long-lived leader, to have staff back them. Wanting to run certain plots just met roadblocks, in some cases I feel because it conflicted with an imm's plan for the character in question, or because the imms wanted my character to do something different. When I, as a leader character, am either not responded to or have my decisions second-guessed by the imms - it makes you question how much of a leader you really are in your clan, if your goals aren't the ones that are being pursued, and your methods are overturned by immortals.

If an imm feels like the main portion of the clan wouldn't go for something - perhaps there's a splinter faction that might support it? We all know that political bodies in Arm are absolutely not black and white, it's my experience that they're portrayed so. I think that all clans need to be better fleshed out in Arm. Many of them, frankly, lack depth, or present far too unifed a front when coming out in disfavor of player ideas.

Attitude:

"There are a lot of different ways that we administer the game, many of which do not involve direct interaction with players.  We are not your servants; we work for the game, not for you." - a staff member

I remember this quote because I winced when I read it. In essense, the reverse is also true - we're here for the game, not for the imms. We aren't actors in your play - we're stars in our own. That's a fundemental tenant of storytelling, whether it's D&D, White Wolf, GURPS or anything else I've ever played. The characters, not the NPCs (the 'game'), are central to the story.

I don't mean to read into this quote - it was a response to a question that I could see might be annoying, to say the least. But in truth, it says to me that there's a basic uncaring attitude about characters and the player's enjoyment of the game.

Other players have brought up tone in emails and such. I think that's been covered, though I haven't had that experience, personally.

Bureacracy: The difficulty of getting anything done with staff feels enormous. A year and a half ago I wrote sixteen pages of documentation for a clan that had never been played before. It took two months to get the prelim approval - from my clan staff - to use them, they asked for revisions. I revised them several times, emailed them in as I was asked... nothing ever got done about it.

Players want to affect the gameworld in a positive manner. When they're prevented from doing so because the staff have to continually get approval from upstairs, that's very discouraging.  I'd rather this process be streamlined and I'd rather players be encouraged to create for Arm. To write documentation, to flesh out the world and the tribes and the cities. Yes - with the understanding that not all of it is going to be used. But, to be quite frank, there's a hell of a lot more of us than there are of staff. We are just as creative, just as motivated, and just as interested in seeing the game retain a high standard of quality.

Presence: I've played a leader in which I had two emails answered in eight months. Before that I played a GMH Agent awhile back that couldn't even get keys to the warehouse to pick up orders, much less get orders loaded. No emails in either situation, no replies from MUD. I understand this is a volunteer effort - but you have still volunteered for a position. If you are unable to meet the demands of that position for whatever reason, ask for help. Don't ignore your players, don't let them float in la-la land until they are so bored and sick to death of not being able to actually perform their role that they store.

These are all personal experiences - but this is why I no longer play Arm. I agree with some of what Bebop has said. I disagree with other points. I do believe that there's things that could be done better. I care about this game - I believe it has a very high quality in reference to other RPI's out there. But, to be honest, the amount of frustration the above problems engendered for me has soured me on the experience.

Having said all that, I had some very good times in Arm. I played some really memorable characters - but in the end, I got no account notes, no karma, no nothing for any of them. If it weren't, honestly, for the number of players that sent me kudos through either PM or the request tool, I'd think that I was a less-than-stellar roleplayer. Playing the characters was, in their own right, my reward. Still, it's nice to be noticed.

[RogueGunslinger]

Wow... Now that there what Helix posted... All of his points, every single one of them, are what I have a problem with with this game.

God I'm so glad he posted it 100x better than I ever could. All of his points... Those are what I want see DEBATED in a player staff meeting.

It really is overbearing how much it feels like the staff just don't give a shit about what we want for the story, and our characters. And how much they are unwilling to codedly change the game aesthetically for our benefit immersively.


Edited to add: Also what kiri said:

I left because after months of struggling with clan  IMM neglect and favoritism, I filied a formal complaint that never REALLY got resolved. Extra staff was assigned, but there was still no help, no answer to my pleas for suggestions or direction. There was ONE NPC animation, which didn't really result in anything but my PC being patted on the head and being told basically that she was being replaced by an apped PC.

There were critical issues that never got dealt with IC. Quite frankly, I felt like I was being stalled because the IMMs didn't want to take IC action against the other PCs involved.

The final straw was when, after several emails asking for help dealing with an OOC issue that had to be dealt with IC, I was ignored in favor of a demand for OOC information about my character's personal life (Information I withheld deliberately, as I did not trust the information to get "leaked" via NPCs).

It's pretty discouraging when you KNOW you could improve what you're doing in your role, and ask for help moving in that direction, and instead get ignored or persecuted. And then replaced by an "apped" PC.

[staggerlee]

Wow... Now that there what Helix posted... All of his points, every single one of them, are what I have a problem with with this game.

God I'm so glad he posted it 100x better than I ever could. All of his points... Those are what I want see DEBATED in a player staff meeting.

It really is overbearing how much it feel like the staff just don't give a shit about what we want for the story, and our characters. And how much they are unwilling to codedly change the game aesthetically for our benefit immersively.


Edited to add: Also what kiri said:

I left because after months of struggling with clan  IMM neglect and favoritism, I filied a formal complaint that never REALLY got resolved. Extra staff was assigned, but there was still no help, no answer to my pleas for suggestions or direction. There was ONE NPC animation, which didn't really result in anything but my PC being patted on the head and being told basically that she was being replaced by an apped PC.

There were critical issues that never got dealt with IC. Quite frankly, I felt like I was being stalled because the IMMs didn't want to take IC action against the other PCs involved.

The final straw was when, after several emails asking for help dealing with an OOC issue that had to be dealt with IC, I was ignored in favor of a demand for OOC information about my character's personal life (Information I withheld deliberately, as I did not trust the information to get "leaked" via NPCs).

It's pretty discouraging when you KNOW you could improve what you're doing in your role, and ask for help moving in that direction, and instead get ignored or persecuted. And then replaced by an "apped" PC.

I think what I was getting at here was that there has been a deliberate decision by staff to allow code to settle matters before rp.

I can't say it worries me, but it is something to think about IMHO.

[Delstro]

Attitude:

"There are a lot of different ways that we administer the game, many of which do not involve direct interaction with players.  We are not your servants; we work for the game, not for you." - a staff member

I remember this quote because I winced when I read it. In essense, the reverse is also true - we're here for the game, not for the imms. We aren't actors in your play - we're stars in our own. That's a fundemental tenant of storytelling, whether it's D&D, White Wolf, GURPS or anything else I've ever played. The characters, not the NPCs (the 'game'), are central to the story.

I highlighted something that could never be said enough.

[LoD]

I left Arm about two months ago, and have little desire to return. I'll list my own reasons, as I don't agree with some of Bebop's. Others, however, I do.

Permissive vs. Non-Permissive:
Communication:
Enabling vs. Disabling:
Attitude:
Bureacracy:
Presence:

These topics contain a lot of very good points, and I think that the frustrations and issues that you've experienced are part of what the Staff has been trying to work toward addressing with the new focus on player-driven plots vs. NPC-driven plots.  Many of the issues that you stated have been things that I've struggled with myself from time to time, such as running into plot obstacles that seemed insurmountable or having something bottleneck at a point where staff approval and/or permission was required.

I believe that steps are being made to alleviate many of these symptoms, attempting to place more control in the hands of the players.  Arm 2 is supposed to be less focused on mega-clans and more focused on the player-driven organizations that come about as a result motivated people such as yourself.  With a few more features, much of what you want could be possible:

> In-game crafting/purchase of doors, locks, and keys.
> In-game crafting/purchase of wagons, carts, and caravans.
> In-game branding/marking service on items chosen for clan/organization identification.
> In-game command of certain human resources, such as NPC shop keepers, estate guards, and cooks that could help fill gaps in a given organization's setup.
> In-game methods to adjust/rename rented rooms for specific purposes. (i.e. Being able to rent a 4-bedroom apartment and assign those 4 rooms arbitrary labels as long as you were the owner, reverting to their previous state if/when you give up possession.)

I'd also like to see us begin to move away from special apps, allowing the Imms to focus on all of the players instead of having to spend a lot of their time setting up special characters, loading up special clothes, assign special skills, and sifting through the applications themselves.  This would also address a lot of problems people have experienced with special app characters taking over leadership positions, making widespread changes to existing structures, or being perceived as getting "special treatment" over non-special app'd characters.

The more I think about it, the less I like special applications being part of the game.  I realize that they're a necessary evil in some circumstances, but I also think we could stand to cut down on the amount of them as we move closer to a more player-driven environment -- especially for Arm 2.

If some of these things are able to come to fruition, then I think you'll see a return to the type of environment that a lot of us older players enjoyed in the past; a world filled with individual agendas rather than clan-related business.  Part of this is due to the nature of Arm 1 moving slowly toward its end, and Arm 2 moving slowly toward its beginning.  Until that day arrives, there will be a certain "stress" associated with the goings-on for all parties involved.

Take a break, take a breath, recharge and come back when you feel the urge.

-LoD

[jhunter]

The more I think about it, there are times I've felt like clan staffers have decided that "I'm gonna help player A with their goals because I like their style (NPCs seem to side with them, etc). But player B, I just don't care much for their style so I'm not going to aid in furthering their goals. In fact, I'm going to hinder them with the use of NPCs as much as possible."
This may have not been the case and it is likely that it was my own perception/feelings at the time but it is a perception/feeling that I've had a few times playing this game where staff-controlled npcs got involved in clan stuff.
It just felt like that no matter what my pc wanted to accomplish, they were looked down on and shit on by the higher-up clan npcs. At the same time, other clan pcs were treated like their very shit was chocolate-scented gold.
Like I said, I try to have more faith in our staff than to believe this perception is true, but hearing some others express such feelings as well makes me wonder if it was completely my perception.
I did run into a situation where a staff member's pc used information garnered through their position on staff to do something they shouldn't have vs. my pc but that person is no longer on staff so I suppose they were caught up to no good another time.

[Olgaris]

I'd really like to see a coherent mission statement from the staff.  I think it'd clear up a lot of misunderstandings and help ensure that staff and players were working toward a common goal.

I think that a lot of the conflict regarding Arm revolves around misunderstandings and poor communication.

Ask, and ye shall receive:

Mission Statement:
***********************

    Preliminaries:

    Armageddon is not a company or corporation; Armageddon is a hobby. It's the equivalent of having a huge train set in our collective basement, and obsessively going down to tinker with it. We want everyone to enjoy being on staff, to feel that they're doing things purely because they want to, and in fact the primary reward anyone should expect for donating their time to a hobby is the enjoyment of the time spent.

    The one responsibility that everyone on staff has, and the thing you implicitly agree to when becoming a staff member, is to be an active member of the staff community. This means you should keep up to date on what is happening, in the form of reading the IDB and GDB on a regular basis, and provide information to others in the form of feedback on what they're doing, as well as sharing what you're up to. People who are not a part of the community are not contributing. If you don't enjoy being a part of the staff community on Armageddon, then you probably aren't going to be in charge of much.

    That said, we'd like to outline what we feel is most important to the game, because as Overlords, we think it's vital that our vision for the mud be clearly communicated. Armageddon has evolved and changed over the ten some years that it's been in existence, and it will continue to evolve, change and (hopefully) grow.

***********************

    Accountability:

    Accountability comes in three flavors: accountability to the game, to the players and to the other members of the staff. Here's how we see each:

    Accountability to the game: To keep working towards the goals of game stability, playability and consistency.

        * Building: Making items and NPCs that are consistent with the current guidelines.
        * Building: Keeping abreast of changes and events on the game.
        * Building: Taking charge of typos and ideas, fixing and verifying them and then making sure they get cleared out of the file once they've been verified/approved.
        * Coding: Not leaving code half-baked or unfinished.
        * Coding: Making sure code is balanced and consistent with the current documentation.
        * Coding: Spending time on code that will maximize people's enjoyment of the game, rather than focusing on code that is so specialized or complicated that it may never get used.
        * Coding: Taking charge of bugs and making sure that they are fixed, tested, and removed from the bugs file when resolved.
        * Staff: When posting on the Net, in the form of IDB postings, GDB, or the Armageddon webpage, or emailing players, to refrain from flamebait, statements which cast a bad light on the game, or insulting other MUDs.
        * Plots: Running plots that are consistent with current guidelines, which incorporate existing events, and which don't collide with things already existing on the game.

    Accountability to the players: Treating players fairly and consistently.

        * Building: Keeping your clans informed as to IC/OOC events, and making sure you check bugs/ideas/typos on a regular basis to fix things that affect them. If you have to take RL leave, make sure your areas are covered so the players aren't left in the lurch.
        * Coding: Testing changes thoroughly to make sure they don't crash us, and posting what's been done in case not everything was tested sufficiently so the crash bug can be fixed
        * Coding: Making sure command syntax is (fairly) intuitive and more importantly, that command syntax is consistent
        * Coding: Making sure new features are sufficiently documented in the form of helpfiles, as well as included in news, the MOTD and/or the GDB.
        * Documentation: Answering questions on the GDB, wishes, account mails, mails to clan immortals both informatively, politely, and in a timely way.
        * Plots: Running plots which are consistent with current documentation. Finishing plots completely, and not scheduling events for players and then failing to show.
        * Plots: Treating players fairly. This is not to say do away with the karma system, but hand out karma or perks to players who have earned them. Not because they're a pal in real life, or bought you beer.
        * Plots: If a player dies or is harmed as a result of your actions, emailing the account with a report on what happened, so if the player emails the account about it, their letter can be answered.
        * Staff: To be consistent in how things are done. For example: Setting out guidelines for approving/rejecting apps, and letting the players know what those guidelines are.

    Accountability to Staff: Respecting the efforts and time of the other staff members.

        * Building: Not interfering in another person's area of responsibility or doing something that will have a major impact on them without checking/letting them know ahead of time.
        * Coding: Airing major changes on the IDB ahead of time, and asking for input. Not making a major change without some consensus on the part of the upper staff.
        * Coding: Documenting changes thoroughly and letting people know what's new so they can incorporate it in their plots and building. Coding things that are useful to other staff members, and making sure there are no bugs in the code which create problems for people running plots or building.
        * Plots: Keeping each other informed of plots, events and other information they might need.
        * Staff: Treating each other fairly and consistently, trying to work out problems directly, or, in the case of Storytellers and Highlords, through someone higher up, should the problem not be directly resolvable. Not engaging in backbiting, or discussing other staff members with players.
        * Staff: Letting the rest of the team know when you will be absent, particularly when there are plotlines or projects that are dependent on you.
        * Staff: Adhering to the guidelines sent out in the Storyteller and Highlord documentation, including the staff contract.

***********************

    Priorities:

    The priority list for working in any area of the game, whether it's coding, plots or building, are:

       1. Stability: Increasingly, we're working towards less lag and longer uptimes. Being able to use the testport to test possible crash bugs will move us even further in this direction.
       2. Balance: Making sure code and building do not unbalance the game. Documentation and building like Halaster's template weapons or Krrx's template NPCs assists in this as well.
       3. Consistency: Adhering to the existing documentation. while continuing to expand it. Making code and syntax consistent overall.
       4. Accountability: As listed in exhaustive detail above.
       5. G-Factor: Things that make players go 'Gee-whiz, that's cool!' Anything from a small building detail to a slick piece of code or an inventive, atmospheric plot.

    Not on the list, but valid as long as they adhere to the above.

       1. I read this in a book...
       2. A few years ago...
       3. When I was mortal, we always played it that...

***********************

    Focusing on using/extending what we have:

    Code: The code shouldn't be so specialized. Any spell should be usable as a spice, as a poison, as a psi power, as a skill. And the other way around. We add new skills, and people want more spells, we add more spells, and people want more psi powers. And all of them have bugs and issues of game balance. Focus on using and extending the functionality of what's there.

        * Example: People make requests to see DMPL/Javascript extended here or there, or see fixes in DMPL/Javascript. This is a prime example since they're not asking for a whole new language, just a more stable and usable feature in DMPL/Javascript.
        * Example: Checking the bugs file to look for flaws in your own code, and making sure they get fixed, so the code is fully functional.
        * Example: Expanding the light code and adding color values while fixing it so the room echoes when someone moves in with a light.
        * Example: The gith_gear dmpl, which works with existing merchant code, rather than against it.
        * Example: Having the crafting code often work with forageable objects.
        * Example: All the additions Morgenes has made to the emote code, such as being able to use emotes with objects.

    Plots: Plots need to be followed through on. Starting a new plot is not a solution to leaving another unfinished. Plots, like code, should interact more. Plotts should also try to use what's there, to expand and amplify the existing world and documentation.

        * Example: Daigon doing Byn travel plots, and Keraptis coordinating with BlackMoon raiding plots.
        * Example: Plotts which use past events as a basis, such as Radoon's going to Mal Krian to find *** CENSORED *** there. Plots that ask players to find an item or NPC that is already in the game, rather than specifically built for the occasion.
        * Example: Bhagharva and Talley adding to the arena area, as well as the existing code there, to create the Gladiator RPTs.
        * Example: The plot where the elves & humans fight for territory in the 'rinth. This doesn't involve demons, ancient assassin cults, or anything, and the players are free to explore it and find out what is going on, they can take part, or flee it.
        * Example: Kadius sending people on weekly 'plots' to find items for the stock and warehouses. This makes them interact with the existing world and existing code to get what they need. They feel that there's a benefit to exploring and learning the various markets.

    Building: There's not as large a need for 500 new items, as there is for having the existing database used more.

        * Example: Rotating shop merchandise to get old items out into the game.
        * Example: Going through the existing database to fix old items or make sure they're flagged correctly.
        * Example: Revamping existing areas, such as Krrx did with the Red Desert and the Salt Flats.
        * Example: Making the crafting code work with as many existing objects as possible, rather than building entire new sets.
        * Example: Camps and villages. The wagon code wasn't intended to be used this way, but it is an excellent extension of existing code.
        * Example: Tents. Again, an imaginative, interesting extension of the wagon code which fulfills a player need.
        * Example: Lizards/Birds that are 'alive' that people use as pets. Rather than coding it to allow NPCs to exist within characters.

***********************

Summary: We've always been about quality over quantity; this is only backing up that ideal.

That has been the staff mission statement since long before I came on board in 2005.

[Vanth]

Since you've chosen to give your feedback in a public forum, I think it's only fitting to respond in kind.

Some of the things I am about to say are not nice.  Normally, I wouldn't get into a GDB argument with a player because a) it's a waste of time I could be devoting to enriching the world for other players b) I don't believe in rewarding bad behavior with attention and c) it's unprofessional.

But I think that a lot of these issues have been swirling around in OOC channels for some time now, since other recent threads have involved other people repeating your complaints on your behalf.  And I don't think it's fair of you to use them this way, even with their consent and of their own volition, when they do not know the whole story.  And since you're leaving anyway, I don't think it matters if I reveal the few bits that you haven't already shared with your friends.

Also, attacking someone who can't fight back is, simply, rude.  A lot of you get away with it, and there's been a lot of it lately.  Maybe you don't realize that's what you're doing.  I'm about to completely break the rules when I go on to tell you all what Bebop isn't telling you.  We normally just have to sit here and take it even when players are telling egregious lies (Bebop's aren't egregious).  I can't count how many staff members have chosen to take leave or leave the game entirely because they get so discouraged by the constant barrage of player attacks or players who assume we're attacking them.  We're not allowed to attack you.  We are allowed (and expected) to make you follow the rules of the game and the boards, and to react appropriately if you're not doing so.  We are also expected to bring the world to life, and unfortunately this means some of your roleplay ideas and desires get shot down.

As a player of four years that has stopped being involved in the game, I would like to offer this following critique of the game.  It's your choice to read it, but as a player that is quitting that has played for four years and has a few points of karma or so I would like offer my opinion as I currently do not care if I return to the game or not this is non-bias and extremely candid.  We've been talking a lot lately about player retention and since it appears I am bowing out I would like to offer my perspective.

Just so that all the facts are out there....  You've been talking about leaving for some time now.  But you just weeks ago applied to play a Nakki templar, so I assume you would have been playing if you'd gotten the role.  That seems like sour grapes to me. 

I have heard other players say, "the only thing I really still want to play is a _____" and templar is one of the commonest fill-in-the-blanks.  Frankly, I don't want to give a templar role to someone who thinks they're too good to play any of the other wonderful roles the game has to offer.  I want someone who is passionate about the game on the game's terms, not only if it's on their terms.

But after playing for four years, I'm very disappointed to find myself well, disappointed and a little bit jaded.  My perspective of Armageddon is tarnished and it's kind of like watching George Lucas twist Star Wars or having all of the copies in the world of your favorite book destroyed.

I think this is a pretty common reaction around the 4 year mark.  It comes earlier for some and later for others, but at some point the honeymoon ends.  Some romantic relationships can't survive when all the excitement and novelty are gone.  Other relationships find a way to make the old new again, or strike a deeper chord of connection.  And just like a relationship, some people will find a way to stick it out with Armageddon, and others won't.  It's not the game's fault, it's not the player's fault.  Either you last or you don't, that's all.

A Lack of Common Goals

This part is brief.  In the time I've been playing while the staff correspondences here are significantly better than some other online gaming communities I find there is still a significant lack of professionalism.  E-mails are not returned on time.  Roles are offered and players are not responded to for weeks or months. 

Oh good lord.  Some of the other applicants for the templar role were also applying for staff, which is why the whole group of templar apps got held up--because we were holding those roles out for non-staff members.

The reason your app in particular got held up even longer is because we were considering actually giving you the role, it was between you and one other person.  Now, I'm sorry our response time is not up to your standards, but after this response, I'm glad we made the decision we did.

Starting in March of '08 we instituted a policy where if an email goes unanswered for more than 7 days, the person doing mudmail will send an email reminder to the clan staff, to make sure they follow up.  This has greatly reduced the amount of email that gets ignored or forgotten.  Is it 100% foolproof?  Of course not.  Like any system that relies on humans, it is prone to human error.  That's why we've always said that you can and should send us a reminder if something hasn't been answered in a week or two.

IMMs can be short, sarcastic and even cruel in communication on the GDB and e-mail

That's right, you don't have a monopoly.

- definitely they are bias. 

Are we biased?  Yeah, actually, I'd say that we are in many cases.  Karma, for example, is a system of bias.  We're prejudging you on your ability to play a role, when you've never played that role.

But it's not a blind bias.  We're biased on the basis of observing players in game, in email, and on the board.  We made judgments on them, judgments which are almost always made on a group level, to some extent.  If one staff member has a negative impression of a player, other staffers may disagree.  I think that having so many opinions in the mix eliminates a lot of unjustified bias.

I have been playing for four years, in all those years I've heard discussion about upgrading the website (the game's first impression) to something more comprehensive and eye catching.  This has never been done. 

The discussion has been among players, not staff.  I'm sorry we didn't immediately implement your idea as soon as you posted it.  But there actually a lot more involved in improving the website than just throwing up a JPEG and changing the font.

Greatly appreciated tweaks have been made but it seems like effort isn't going where effort is due.  Case in point the new chat room system, but I'll get to that.  Overall there seems to be a general lack of organization.  Where the documentation was once very concise it seems that the documentation is currently always being changed or added to.

I can't actually think of an online multiplayer game that is the same as it was 4 years ago.  If you can find such a game, then you will have found your niche.  Happy hunting.

New Immortals - New Vision

Though many of the immortals have come in and done an amazing job I have a very huge concern about seniority.  There is a real lack of seniority right now.  Many IMMs that were around when I first started playing seem to have fallen away.  New IMMs are being introduced more and more,

Part of this is just something that everyone notices more the longer they stay around.  There is a pretty regular turnover, but I would say the current rate is about the same as it has ever been.  I don't think there's a lack of seniority.  Just because someone is now a HL who wasn't even on staff when you started playing, doesn't mean they haven't been on staff long enough.  It just means you've been playing longer, now.

We did lose a chunk of staff around the time that 2.0 was announced.  But I think overall we're back to a normal level.  At that time, I'd say we were maybe a little overstaffed, compared to what we had been before.  But I'd say our current staffing levels are at about the same player:staff ratio as they were in, say, 2003.

sometimes when I am in a clan I get a response from an IMM that I had never heard of, is not listed as an IMM for my clan and an IMM I never heard announced. 

I'm pretty sure this is hyperbole.

[Vanth]

(Part 2)

It's just like player retention - IMM retention is just as important.  If we can't keep senior immortals (and not just coders) what kind of standard is set for the new IMMs, and are they changing the standard.  It's like when you love a movie and then a new director makes the sequal and it's just not the same.  How is that effecting the game?

This game has a foundation.  The past has been successful.  The previous IMMs helped make this game what it is.  Suddenly it seems the entire game is being flushed out for a new one.  A new one that had no guarantee to be as successful with new IMMs that did not initially help this game become what it was. 

The game is being changed because a disgruntled, banned former player reported us to Hasbro for using DarkSun IP, and they want us to stop using it. 

So we had a choice between stripping every piece of that IP out of the current game (pretty hard, and imposssible to justify ICly) or starting afresh.

I feel there is a general lack of focus and game is degrading because of that.  Let's go back to the movie analogy.  The Matrix was huge, it was one of the biggest sci-fi kicks in a long while, the mythology started out being pretty darned intriguing.  Then the focus went to graphics and innovative cinematography instead of story and handful of years later the sequels are sitting on the four dollar rack at the grocery store.

Without IMMs to maintain a standard - the standard that brought this game ten years of success, I fear that a few things are happening.  One is a slow disregard for the documentation.  Clans are shifting and changing constantly and not necessarily to so much fit the game world that we've all come to love but to fit the newer "generation" of IMM desires.

Every major change to the game has to be approved by the OLs, two of whom have been staffing this game for over 10 years each.  Maybe, instead of a bunch of us trying to mutiny and steal the ship, they're just using their long range of experience and knowledge to improve the game?

New Changes to Clans and Storytelling

I have to say I'm greatly surprised about this change.  While I think that lumping the cities and their areas of society and otherwise was a good idea, I'm lost on all of the rest. 

I'll agree that the 'independent' group is a complete mishmash.  I mean, Bards, Guild, and Byn in one area?  Craziness.  I can admit that, and I'm the one who thunk it up.   I think the other 4 areas, though, are actually really exciting not only in terms of what staff will be able to do with them, but just how we look at the clans in general.

For example, anyone who went on the great GMH silt skimmer expedition knows what a multi-GMH plot can look like: awesome.  And combining all the tribal groups together is important in a couple of ways.  The non-gypsy human tribals have sort of been the redheaded stepchild of tribalism.  Mekeda made some great camps for them which are underused, for example.  Then on the other hand you have the Tan Muark, who have been long perceived to be given special attention that other clans don't get.  Well, now the Tan Muark are just another human tribe, and the attention is being spread more evenly.

I do admit that I'm biased about this plan, because I proposed it.  I'm willing to admit that it might not work.  But I think it's premature to say whether it will or not, at this early stage.

This was marketed to be something that will give players more capability.  This won't happen for several reasons.  The only real change I saw was that PC leaders are no longer going to be animated.

1) Now IMMs will have less time as they will be answering e-mails and animating NPCs - E-mails are already not responded to and lead to character storing in clans.

There will be just as many emails, and just as many staffers answering them as there ever were.  The difference is that the animations we do will (should) be animations that everyone from the boss down to the lowest grunt might have a chance to interact with, instead of what it used to be--one imm sitting in a closed room with one player, animating the boss NPC to receive a report that the imm already read in email.

Let's do the math: would you rather that one animation benefits 3 PCs, or only 1 PC?

2) Now IMMS will be able to manipulate the storyline using e-mail, final say and animating NPCs that have the ability to change your character's storyline while at the same time being privy to all OOC information being sent their way.

I'm not sure I understand your point.  Imms always had the final say when it comes to what the superiors of a clan think about an idea.  That's our job, to make sure that the virtual world react appropriately, good or bad.

This comes after not long ago there was a rule to decide that clans were going to be shifted.  They were hardly ever shifted and player fears came to life.  Sometimes clan that was once working like a well oiled machine changed direction under the new IMMs.  NPCs that had once faired one way, faired the other.  New IMMs had to be put up to speed after the shift. 

Are you sure you've been playing for 4 years?  We generally rotate staff amongst clans at least once a year.  For example, in my 6 years on staff I've worked on every clan except for the 'rinthi clans and Byn.  Some clans twice.

We rotate clans for several reasons.  One, it brings new perspective and ideas to clans.  One of the first things that happened after our first official clan rotation is that Tlaloc realized that the wage scale for clans was incredibly out of whack, like lower-tier noble house employees were making more than Borsail employees, etc.  Two, it helps to prevent or eliminate problems caused by imms making pets out of their favorite clan, and that clan getting more attention/goodies than any other clan.  Three, it makes every staff member stronger when they can look at a situation and see it from multiple angles.  So when a Kadian gets on the bad side of a Blue Robe, and the staffer has staffed both AoD and Kadius, they understand the situation from every angle.

It seems there has been lots of change to fill the front page but a real lack of substantiality and stability that the players can rely on.  The code maybe better and sometimes the service in some circumstance has become more dependable, but has the story really gotten any better?  Has the game really become more intriguing because of it?  I say no. 

Well, then you are probably much better off having made your decision to leave.

And I think no is in the numbers as I watch jaded players that played for years fall off the game one by one.

Like staff turnover, this is actually a pretty constant rate.  As I said before, some people stick past the honeymoon, others don't.

Not to mention I was enormously surprised to find the new chat system where people can create their own chats and mod them.  Not that this isn't already happening on various social websites and messenger systems but for IMMs to actually encourage this OOC spread of information and ability to create more clichés is really incredible to me.

Morgenes has already amply addressed this.

Especially when there are so many other ways that funds (monetary or time wise) could be utilized.

It's not your money or your time, so you don't get to choose how it's spent.

I know everyone is going to hate this analogy, and it's honestly not meant to be condescending, but: as long as you live in your parents' house, you have to live by their rules.  You may not get to pick what's in the fridge or what cable package they have either.  It's their house and their money.

Armageddon is an OOC Game - Politics and Elitism.

This is my final point and my largest.  Armageddon is an OOC game.  One may not notice it at first in the early stages of "newbdom."  But one quickly begins to understand that one must participate in an OOC game along with the IC one.

No.  This is so wrong I don't even begin to know how to address it.  Maybe if you weren't so involved in OOC, then other players wouldn't have been able to identify your characters and use them in their arguments against you in this thread. 

I can assure you that many of our finest players are not involved in OOC, and in fact that's part of what makes them our finest players.  Conversely, some players who are very popular OOCly are not admired at all by staff.

Are there cliques?  I'd say there are some.  I think there aren't as many as you think there are.  You do tend to be a little paranoid.

Is it worth it?  It might be - until you lose the OOC side and it begins to effect the IC.

The entire karma system is currently set up in a way that players are punished if their OOC communication is not up to par.  Even so much that it stifles progress in the game because players can not offer up due criticism for fear of being nerfed on special application or leadership roles. 

So you're saying that you think you didn't get the templar role because I wouldn't let you buy NPC slaves with your previous, 5-day unaffiliated commoner, and because you let me know what you thought of my decision?

Like I said, you almost got that templar role.  The reason you didn't is because you store all your nobles and templars the first time something doesn't go your way, and because you're so argumentative in emails that no one wants to sponsor you in the role.  It's easier to give the role to someone who is an equally good roleplayer but less of a pain in the ass.

If by being a "good OOC communicator" you mean that you have to be polite and not constantly accuse the other person of having it in for you, then yes, by all means, that is what you need to get ahead in this game and in life.

This is a very real problem.  It's an obvious problem.  And it's something that is disgusted on the various OOC channels of communication every single day.

May I respectfully suggest that if you spent less time comparing complaints over OOC channels you might not get so worked up over them that you appear (from our side) to be overreacting?

It has been made very clear that the Armageddon community is not one of a democracy but one that it is totalitarian in nature making players even more dependant. 

That's correct, it's not a representative democracy, where everyone's votes count.  We do listen to feedback, though, and allow dissent, so it's not totalitarian.

It reminds me of George Lucas making millions off of his fans and then saying that he doesn't take into consideration their criticism to his films.  The IMMs are holding all of the cards and criticism of their leadership is not only condemned and discouraged but punished whenever someone may apply for a role.

Dissent is allowed as long as it doesn't devolve to flames, and in the case of thoughtful, polite, constructive criticism, it is positively welcomed.

Bad account notes are actually put onto your account for GDB and OOC interactions regardless of your role play capabilities or success in former leadership roles. 

Well, yeah.  I definitely want to know if someone is going to be easy or difficult to deal with when I am contemplating beginning a correspondence of several emails a week for several months with them.

I'll put it this way.  Of the negative notes on your account, fully 1/4 are about your GDB antics.  However, since there have not been any more notes on this behavior in over 18 months (since your temp ban) I wouldn't take them into account.  However, another 1/4 of the notes are from staffers who have found you difficult to work with in clans.  And they're all different staffers.   Even if I'd never dealt with you before that would give me pause.  If that many people agree that there is a problem, then I don't care if you could roleplay a paraplegic black robe to perfection.  It's not worth the hassle when there are many fine roleplayers to choose from.

Regardless of how you may benefit the story of Armageddon the line of OOC discussion is a hard one to balance.  Not only in receiving a role but advancing your mundane character as well, even within the bounds of realism.

Is it realistic for an unaffiliated commoner with no particular political, economic, or social clout to have an NPC guard slave?  I will let you pose that question to your fellow players, since they are the ones thereby deprived of a fair chance at assassinating your character.

I think what IMMS and even players may fail to understand is that criticism is crucile not only to a relationship but to a changing community and a community that wants to continue to improve. 

Sure, if the criticism is based on facts, not just half-truths carefully edited to make you look better and us look worse.  But you have to accept that just because even 1/2 of players want a particular change does not mean it will happen or should happen.

I don't think players or IMMs should so much concern themselves with if the person criticizing is good at doing so constructively so much as if their criticism has validity instead of ultimately punishing that person if you don't agree or if they come off in a way you don't like.

I think you will find that life does not reward a negative attitude nor uncivil behavior any more than the staff of this game does.

The meat of this part of my critique is that the OOC game is one that everyone loses and one that we all play and it's getting worse for several reasons.  It's the elephant in the room so to speak.  I've had great OOC interactions, including the APM.  And I think people can definitely handle OOC information many times (though not all of the times) without letting it hinder their RP abilities.  But my issue comes whenever OOC politics become a game you must play in order to gain an advantage.

Conclusion

This is my conclusion as someone who wants the best for this game.  I recently had two very bad experiences with this game where role play and documentation were completely ignored.  Before that I had stepped away from the game for about two months.  I had those experiences stepped back a month, came back and played and then stepped back again.  I submitted one application where I felt I had done well before and could significantly attempt to make the game engaging only to never receive an e-mail regarding it.  Four years ago as a newb I played a character for three real life months that had no problem with magickers and ended up bedding one.  Through the course of three months the story was amazing.  I was enslaved, I was attacked, I worked various jobs regardless of guild.  In fact I think I only fought once.  When I got knocked up by a magicker I was attacked, cursed, warned and made an outcast.  Four real life years later, I walked into a tavern as a northerner and got pats on the back and smiles from a southron crowd in one of the grungiest southside tavern.  My first reaction was, seriously?  In the past months I've seen thing, after thing, after thing, after thing that clearly completely defies and entirely ignores the documentation.  The grittiness feels gone.  Let's face it, when you're into a character - and I mean IN to a character, that character becomes a part of you.  You bring that character to life.  That's an opportunity reserved for writers, artists and actors.  Armageddon gives us the opportunity to escape from monotony, learn and make some friends along the way.  I'm becoming more and more disheartened to see that process become discarded due to lack of respect for the foundation of the game.

I would really like to come back to the game.  I would really truly like to.  (After this criticism I may not be wanted back).  But my enthusiasm for it is really waning to the point I don't know if I ever will.  If I don't come back I felt those things at least needed to be said if I bow out permanently.

Thanks for your feedback.  I hope you'll consider my feedback as well.

[Synthesis]

Vanth, you scare me a little bit.

[SMuz]

Vanth, you scare me a little bit.

It was just waiting to happen. Especially with some of the other comments from people who stopped playing but still visit the GDB

[RogueGunslinger]

Vanth, you scare me a little bit.

I loled.


Seriously Vanth, that offers a lot of insight into how the staff work, think, and feel. Though you were only reinforcing what I thought anyways, it's nice to actually hear it put so bluntly. If I had seriously thought that I had to join certain OOC cliques to progress in the game I would have done a lot more ass kissing. I feel that (especially since being told how the special app process actually works) the staff handle things exactly as they should. By taking into consideration what the person does, how they act, and how they play, in judging what they might bring to the game. And if people seriously think their OOC personalities don't determine how they play, or how it is to deal with them via staff interaction, they should probably reevaluate how life works.

This post, however, doesn't help to alleviate what my concerns are with the game. Nor do I think there will ever be a way to truly do this. Obviously what my wants for the game are, don't exactly coincide with the general consensus of the staff(mostly due to their restrictions, not their willingness), and I'm fine with that. I still get to focus on my character, my story, and my enjoyment, and nothing staff or other players supposed OOC cliquishness can do(save for making my characters heart-attack) will change that. The game resides, for me, in imagination and storytelling, both of which I get to control a part of.

At any rate, thank you for responding to Bebop, I'm sure you've alleviated a lot of peoples concerns.


Edited to take out something that didn't make sense.

[Lakota]

Thank you, Vanth.

Your post = mine, but without all the vitriol and fucking. Polite and succint.

On that note, I take my leave.

[Dar]

Without commenting on the content itself of Vanth's post, I honestly think it would've been better if his/her reply was given to Bebop via email then public post like that.

Venting happens. Players tend to do it and then a month or two later go right back into the game

Staff response carry significantly more weight, whether it is the 'official' response, or just personal opinion. I'll admit Vanth tried to make her post not as heavy handed as it could've been. But as far as the whole 'player retention' gist is concerned, I think this did more harm then good.

[Lakota]

I...can't...resist..

Dar: After successive years of harassment and name calling, it's been a long time coming for a staff member to step in and defend their role as it pertains to ArmageddonMUD.

This. Was. Needed.

Trust me.

[Kassindra]

Well, it may depend on the player. I've experience being an IMM so I know what players can be like when they try to air out staff on forums and don't tell the whole story on what really happens and staff not being allowed to defend themselves. As a player here, I'm glad for the insight and in a way this would actually make me feel more connected to what is going on here and knowing that staff aren't exactly like Bebop's post made them out to be will keep me here. But that is just my opinion and I cannot speak for everyone else who plays here.

[FantasyWriter]

Seriously Vanth, that offers a lot of insight into how the staff work, think, and feel.
Though you were only reinforcing what I thought anyways, it's nice to actually hear it put so bluntly.

Thank you for this.

[Thunkkin]

This. Was. Needed.

[Semper]

Without commenting on the content itself of Vanth's post, I honestly think it would've been better if his/her reply was given to Bebop via email then public post like that.

Venting happens. Players tend to do it and then a month or two later go right back into the game

Staff response carry significantly more weight, whether it is the 'official' response, or just personal opinion. I'll admit Vanth tried to make her post not as heavy handed as it could've been. But as far as the whole 'player retention' gist is concerned, I think this did more harm then good.

If Bebop's reply was emailed, then I think an email response is appropriate. When you post on the GDB, it's for discussion, and you'll get responses, whether or not you agree.

Although I'd be concerned when staff starting using player account notes and the like to blow us away on every discussion, now and then, it's a fresh breath of air to hear staff imput, and maybe clear away some perceptions that we as player's aren't always privy to know, and thus make biased judgements on.

For those who have left Arm, come back when you can. The announcements to changes in the game should give hope that things can improve over time. And maybe you can kick up that honeymoon stage again. =D

[Lou]

I know everyone is going to hate this analogy, and it's honestly not meant to be condescending, but: as long as you live in your parents' house, you have to live by their rules.  You may not get to pick what's in the fridge or what cable package they have either.  It's their house and their money.

This is almost enough to stop me playing before I get too attached. Even as an vague analogy, I find it incredibly off-putting. I'm not your child; I'm your guest. You invited me here. I need to act appropriately, given it's your house. And you need to act appropriately, given I'm your guest.

If that analogy reflects the attitude of the staff at large regarding the power dynamic between staff and players, I would appreciate being told sooner, rather than later.

[Cutthroat]

I know everyone is going to hate this analogy, and it's honestly not meant to be condescending, but: as long as you live in your parents' house, you have to live by their rules.  You may not get to pick what's in the fridge or what cable package they have either.  It's their house and their money.

This is almost enough to stop me playing before I get too attached. Even as an vague analogy, I find it incredibly off-putting. I'm not your child; I'm your guest. You invited me here. I need to act appropriately, given it's your house. And you need to act appropriately, given I'm your guest.

If that analogy reflects the attitude of the staff at large regarding the power dynamic between staff and players, I would appreciate being told sooner, rather than later.

There is a certain level of dominance that comes from staff. That's how it's supposed to be by definition. But take a look around and you will find that this relationship is not so strict. We are allowed to give our opinions on matters without being overly inflammatory. Going along with the analogy, we players have no curfew, an allowance, and sometimes the staff lets us drink their beer.

Vanth is right, in my opinion. They established rules and by coming here as players we agree to abide by them. We are also given plenty of rights, though, and it's important you don't forget that.

[FantasyWriter]

I think big brothers/sisters would be a better analogy.

They were once just as young as us, but they have been around for while.
They take care of us when we needed, even give us a good beating when we deserve it.
We may hate them at times, but they usually have out best interest in heart when it is important.

Hell, we may even be a big brother or sister one day.

[SMuz]

I'd still the think that the parents analogy is more accurate. Yes, they were once kids and all. And they will never be the same innocent kids again.

Point is, they do it for the sake of everyone. Not for you alone. And if you're the one who's been tantruming around the house yelling at how unfair they've been to you, you should just take a step back and remember that they have other people to take care of. You are just one of hundreds of other players and the staff would be spending an unrealistic amount of time trying to cater to the whims of one or two powergamers.

If the staff kept quiet about it and let everyone vent without a public response, then everyone will wonder if the big, bad parents are selfish, sadistic pricks who are really there to fatten them up and eat them. Vanth might be yelled at by the other staff for the post, but IMHO, it was an inevitable solution.