Changes to staffing - animation and storytelling: Discussion thread.

[jcljules]

Got a lot of animations for a few weeks when the policy was implemented, during a big RPT I was involved in as well, they were absolutely fantastic. Had a few wished for animations after that with clan PCs, which were required for specific purposes... but no random ones since the first few weeks of the new policy.

[RogueGunslinger]

As someone who hasn't played in a clan, I've seen absolutely no change.

[Solifugid]

I saw a metric ton of animations before the change. Since then, I've seen precisely none.

That's just an observation, by the way. I'm happy either way.

[Agent_137]

As someone who hasn't played in a clan, I've seen absolutely no change.

i think it might help if you communicate with your indie staff a little.

[flurry]

It is a fine line. Give PCs authority who have proven they are capable of it, sure - that part I'm grateful for - but when those PCs realize that their place is only in the middle of the food chain and they are used to seeking guidance from their bosses, it is a lonely place to suddenly hear little but "do what you want." What they want to do is work with their superiors, and they can't really do that without having at least something to go off of.

Edit:
This isn't to say that we can't pursue our own plots; far from it.

To use a hypothetical example, your high-ranking aide wants to negotiate X for B purpose between two noble houses. X negotiation has the potential to impact the clan's entire direction, if W and Y or especially Z happens, so your aide wants to know what Lord Poobah thinks. Your are told "Lord High Poobah has nothing to offer." You the player are left feeling mildly confused and/or abandoned, because in all previous incarnations, Lord Poobah always had an opinion or a suggestion, even if it was "go right ahead, Minion 2343."

You aren't sure whether it means that Lord Poobah approves of your character enough to give them free reign, is tired of being pestered by your character, or just doesn't give a shit... because you have no IC context to go off of.

I can identify with this so much. Sometimes it's hard to get past the feeling that NPC clan bosses have become unseen, uninterested, and uninvolved in the affairs of any PC.

For me, "do what you want" doesn't feel empowering or liberating, without some kind of parameters to work within. I know I can't do just anything without support from clan staff. The idea for job descriptions, mentioned early in this thread, would help with this, I think.

Still, I think email works great for dealing with reports. I didn't seen NPC meetings all that useful for that even before, most of the time. I find it easier, and quicker, to provide context in an email, more often than not. The amount of animations I've seen since the change is probably about the same as before, just not with NPC bosses.

So I don't think it's a bad change at all, on the balance. I just think it put clan leaders in a somewhat difficult position, and it'll take some more time to get used to it.

[Thistle]

The following point of view only applies to a single storyteller (me) and is not the view of staff:

Initially when this change came aboard at the same time we were taking on new staff.  This can account probably for a vast amount of the random animations as new staff have a few things to learn and are not yet familiar with all of the characters and their plotlines.  Without the knowledge and experience of having been on staff, I think for a new staffer it is easier to do random animations, but after that experience is built there is a shift toward more focused animating.

A few tips on how someone is more likely to get me to animate something:

• Give me something to work with.  When players are moving about it is really hard and sometimes jaring to hop into an npc they might just walk right past.  The more a player interacts with the world around them the more easily a staff member can then interact with the player.  Pay attention to the npcs and vnpcs around you and role play with them regardless of if there is staff around and you'll probably see them come to life a little more.
• Wish up whenever you're doing something that you feel the staff would want to know about, that the virtual world should react to.  A great example is if you are sneaking into someplace you don't belong, traveling through enemy terroritory.. Ect.  Additionally email your clan staff ahead of time so they can know what's going on when and have time to prepare.
• You always have clan staff.  Even if you are independant there is a team whose job it is to watch out for you.  Know who your clan staff is and keep them updated on what is going on.  There are a lot of characters and it can be hard to pay attention to every one, especially if they are not emailing.

Anyway, those are my tips and views on the matter.  This is by no means an official post.  Thank you.

[Eloran]

I've noticed an appreciable increase in animations, echoes, etc.

I like the change.

[Niamh]

I personally love doing animations and echoes, especially random ones that add just a touch of flavor to whatever is going on.  However, you have to keep in mind some things when considering how often these things happen.  Watching PCs and animating NPCs is not the only thing the staff does.  We also:

*Process requests sent through the request tool.  Reimbursements, kudos, complaints, special applications, skill changes, description changes, questions, and so forth.  Some requests take longer than others to process.

*Answer emails.  Some staffers get totally swamped with tons of emails to answer, if they have a large and active clan, or if they have some players in their clans who simply send lots of emails for whatever reason.  This is part of the reason why now, someone keeps an eye on emails that go for a certain amount of time unanswered, to give us a little kick in the ass to say "Hey, this needs to be taken care of!"

*Build items/NPCs/rooms/areas.  Depending on what is getting built, and how much of it is getting built, this can be a very long and tedious process.  Sometimes, it requires enough concentration that we have to block out the rest of the mud world so that we can focus on it, get it done, and get it done right.  That isn't even touching new bits of code that get added in by the code gods.

*GMH staff has the responsibility of loading up items for sale by PC merchants and agents.  Depending on what sort of items are requested, how many of them are requested, and how vague or specific the requests are, this can either be very time consuming, or very quick and painless.  There are TONS of items in the game, and two keywords that one might think would bring up exactly what they want right away could potentially yield a huge list of similar items that has to be waded through in order to find the right one.  (This is also why some reimbursement requests take a while to get processed.)


Availability of staffers also fluctuates, which can cause certain staffers who were doing those things to be doing them at other times of the day.  We staffers also don't get to communicate with other about things in real time due to availability and playtimes, so we have to resort to slower email conversations that can gunk up the process of getting decisions made.

Concerning the rotations of staff, yes, it sucks to be stuck in a position with a character who's been doing things, and you suddenly have a new staffer who has no idea what's going on.  I've been in that position as a player myself.  That doesn't make it suck any less for us.  I've recently been rotated to a totally different area of clans, and I'm still catching up on everything that's going on.  You can't expect new staff to immediately know everything that is going on in your clan as soon as they switch in.  Sending them emails outlining your PC and their doings, as well as any plots they've been pushing is immensely helpful in getting your new staff brought up to speed, and helps to prevent the ball from getting dropped.  Yes, it sucks for a long lived PC where you would end up doing this multiple times, but if that's what it takes to keep things going for you, then that's what you should do. 

We aren't trying to screw anyone over, we really aren't.  We want you to have fun and get into trouble and die awesome deaths.  We just can't be there 24-7 to do everything that needs to be done, as much as we would like to.

[Reiloth]

Totes. I res'd this thread more to check in on how everyone's percieved this large change to the way staff interacts with PC's, especially leaders towards the top of the food chain (Nobles, Agents, Templars) who no longer have PC to NPC interaction In Game.

It was in no way meant as a jab towards the staff -- I think you guys are doing a good job. I think ASS (A strange shadow) has some good points in her posts as well.

I believe Arm would benefit from a grey area as far as staff interaction and IC events being translated through email. Instead of saying "We will not be animating your superior NPC's anymore", it might be more encouraging to say "Not as often as before."

While it is definitely tedious for staff, and players, to have higher up meetings that just 're-cap' what can be, or already was, sent in an email...In fact, such situations are -perfect- for emails and leaving it at that...I don't think the staff should cut higher up NPC animation entirely.

It's nice to plot against your boss, or disagree with -their- ideas that go against what your PC wants. While I love having the mentality of "Be the change you want to see"...I'd also like the game world to breathe, instead of feel like there's an OOC cuttoff that your PC can't get past, or acknowledge IG.

"I'll have to ask my boss about that." just has a different connotation now, I suppose.

EDIT: To add -- I meant to finish by stating a PC can't have an actual relationship with their boss now. They can't feel they hate them, that they want to work with them, that they want to off them, or that they could do their job better. Now it is much harder to seperate what an IMM feels and thinks should be happening IG from an NPC boss. It feels much more like an IMM now, for obvious reasons.

To immortals -- Do you still take the boss NPC's personality and foci into account? Have you considered this loss of personality to clan edicts and decisions?

[Sephiroto]

With the exception that 2 NPC's -might- have been Imm animated over the course of the past 3 RL months, I'd say that my perception of imm interaction IC and watchful oversight has decreased.  Heck, I don't even know who my clan imms are, though that's on account of my own laziness. 

Now, I'm probably just delusional, but I get the feeling that there may be things happen behind the scenes in response to some of my character's actions, that affect my character in a way I like much better than overt, immortal intervention.  No longer am I looking over my shoulder for an imm praise or correction.  Now I play a character who looks to the people immediately around him rather than some NPC avatar.  Now everything just works out ICly in a way that feels much more natural.  It feels like karma.

What I have noticed is an amazing amount of effort being put into modifying old code and build new code and that has made the play of 1.Arm a lot of fun.  It is really awesome.  I don't know if this comes to any changing in the staff protocol or assignments, but I hope the changes keep rolling.

[Lizzie]

What Reiloth said in his last post, reflects -exactly- how I've been feeling. I totally love the random animations, the occasional clan NPC that pops up to toss a wrench in the gears of clan living..the occasional noble npc who comes for a visit to the tavern and spread a rumor or offer a gift..

but I'd give up -most- of that..in exchange for occasional visits from my character's boss.

(most, because I still love those un-boss things!)

[Eloran]

It has been my experience that animated "boss" npcs usually squash any plans your pc has.

Underling npcs animated usually support plans your pc has.

Highly relative.

[Lizzie]

So what Eloran? No one's saying they want an imm-animated NPC to go along with their ideas. They're saying they want boss NPC interactions. Or, at least some of us are.

[Eloran]

So what Eloran?

So what? I enjoy having my ideas supported by npc colleagues as opposed to being shot down by bosses, that's what.

No one's saying they want an imm-animated NPC to go along with their ideas.

I never said anyone was. I was making an observation.

They're saying they want boss NPC interactions. Or, at least some of us are.

That's fine and dandy. I just personally prefer interactions with npcs that are on my level.

[Reiloth]

It has been my experience that animated "boss" npcs usually squash any plans your pc has.

Underling npcs animated usually support plans your pc has.

Highly relative.

I want an NPC boss to squash my idea. That gives me direction, and tells me what i'm doing wrong, or rather, what I can do that will appease my boss, and still get my shit done. I want to have something superior to my PC to either look up to, loathe, fear, or distrust. It's not very Zalanthan to feel like you're at the top of the food chain.

[FantasyWriter]

Are you NPC underlings going along with your idea because they agree with it, or because they know it's stupid and want you to feck up so they can get your job?

[Eloran]

That gives me direction, and tells me what i'm doing wrong, or rather, what I can do that will appease my boss, and still get my shit done.

In my experience, a lot of times bosses would chop down my ideas because they might conflict with their own progress in the clan's chain of command.

I want to have something superior to my PC to either look up to, loathe, fear, or distrust. It's not very Zalanthan to feel like you're at the top of the food chain.

Valid point, but I don't think you need boss npcs to accomplish this. There are other ways. Perhaps you could look up to, loathe, fear, or distrust a PC superior or nemesis?

[FantasyWriter]

Your superiors not wanting you to do something is a LOOOOOONG way from you not actually being able to do it.

[Adhira]

To immortals -- Do you still take the boss NPC's personality and foci into account? Have you considered this loss of personality to clan edicts and decisions?

We absolutely consider the NPC boss that something is reported to and their reaction. Their personality and their viewpoints have a definite input in to what reply people get in emails. We also try to represent the overall feeling that the house would have on something while letting players know that they have the power to action things

As far as loss of personality goes - yes, there is some disconnect with regards that the npc bosses are now much more a faceless entity than before. We do still animate senior npcs if the staff member feels it's needed, what we aren't doing is logging in to have that recap meeting with underlings. We found that many players often sat waiting for that meeting for direction or to be told what to do.  For most staff in game when looking at their clans they may have around 40 or so pcs to 'look after'. Not animating the bosses for the 4 - 8 leader pcs in that group as often as before means that they have the time to observe and add input and flavor for the rest of that group.

The system isn't perfect, and as one of the other staffers said we don't have the manpower to keep up with all the random interactions people want. There are definitely areas that we need to improve on, and we will likely be looking at the current system and reviewing it in a couple of months time.

Note - One of our other reasons for moving to this system is that based on feedback over the years, and feedback we had for Arm 2 players wanted a much more malleable world where they could have more influence, and they could get to the top of the food chain. The premise of Arm 2 is that it's a much more player driven world, which means creating the stories, making the changes and deciding the direction is done by players. This system is, in part, an experiment for us all to see how things might lean with players being the top dogs. Obviously due the to the restrictions and overhead that our huge virtual world has it's not ideal, there are still limitations, but it has been helpful in providing some insight as to where guidance is needed, where we should be stepping back, and where we need to step up.

[Reiloth]

To immortals -- Do you still take the boss NPC's personality and foci into account? Have you considered this loss of personality to clan edicts and decisions?

We absolutely consider the NPC boss that something is reported to and their reaction. Their personality and their viewpoints have a definite input in to what reply people get in emails. We also try to represent the overall feeling that the house would have on something while letting players know that they have the power to action things

As far as loss of personality goes - yes, there is some disconnect with regards that the npc bosses are now much more a faceless entity than before. We do still animate senior npcs if the staff member feels it's needed, what we aren't doing is logging in to have that recap meeting with underlings. We found that many players often sat waiting for that meeting for direction or to be told what to do.  For most staff in game when looking at their clans they may have around 40 or so pcs to 'look after'. Not animating the bosses for the 4 - 8 leader pcs in that group as often as before means that they have the time to observe and add input and flavor for the rest of that group.

The system isn't perfect, and as one of the other staffers said we don't have the manpower to keep up with all the random interactions people want. There are definitely areas that we need to improve on, and we will likely be looking at the current system and reviewing it in a couple of months time.

Note - One of our other reasons for moving to this system is that based on feedback over the years, and feedback we had for Arm 2 players wanted a much more malleable world where they could have more influence, and they could get to the top of the food chain. The premise of Arm 2 is that it's a much more player driven world, which means creating the stories, making the changes and deciding the direction is done by players. This system is, in part, an experiment for us all to see how things might lean with players being the top dogs. Obviously due the to the restrictions and overhead that our huge virtual world has it's not ideal, there are still limitations, but it has been helpful in providing some insight as to where guidance is needed, where we should be stepping back, and where we need to step up.

Thanks for the response Adhira.

I totally think the re-cap meetings IG between NPC leaders and their underlings were...Kind of redundant. I think emails, from what i've seen, have worked -very- well for that sort of thing. It really helps not having to arrange a pointless meeting between a staff member, who's obviously busy, and a player, who's obviously busy as well.

With that out of the way though -- Should we expect to see that random bump in with our bosses, from time to time?

There are some great relationships that I remember from even a year ago or so, where the boss NPC, even though animated sparsely, really -FELT- like a PC. They'd stop by, when they knew that the PC's they were asking for weren't online, just so underling A tells boss B "Hey, Soandso was looking for you". And that'd be enough to make them gulp. Y'know? There isn't a sense of that anymore.

The thing about these NPC's is that it's -impossible- for your PC to become their rank. If you do, you have to store. So -- If they don't like you, it makes you nervous. If they like you, you feel confident. If they are lazy, you feel jealous or uncaring of what they say. If they are gloating pigs, you talk shit about them behind their backs. Not across the boards, of course, but just sample 'emotions' that I feel are entirely missing now. We can't get to know our bosses. And it isn't really the same when you get an email that says "Well, In game, this would have happened." It seems more like a narrartive than actual interplay.

In essence -- Thumbs up to no more senseless animations just for the sake of covering it IG. Emails cover this nicely.

Thumbs up, also, to various random NPC animations of varying importance, ranging from beggars to bar-owners, to PC's superiors.

[Reiloth]

Your superiors not wanting you to do something is a LOOOOOONG way from you not actually being able to do it.

Not when your Superiors are 100% NPC's, which also implies that they are 100% staff run. Thusly -- Certain plots, that require the staff to complete (Usually a HL, if you are considering projects like building, destroying, or something along those lines) are impossible without their help / intervention.

On a whole -- I agree. 90% of plots I have run in leadership roles just involve other PC's. There's no real reason to have to go through IMM's for those kinds of things. If anything, those other PC's have to involve their clan's staff to load items or something of that sort. A festival, for instance, can happen with very little encouragement or intervention from the staff -- This allows the staff to enter the festival as 'seasoning', rather than the concrete foundation of the entire RPT. A war, on the other hand...Unless it's going to be a brawl between two orginizations in the streets or wilds, just PC's...Well. That'd require quite a bit of staff attention. Dig?

[a strange shadow]

Everything Reiloth said.

- the lass in front of ASS

[Jdr]

I feel a lot of times that I should do >change ldesc is standing here, a big yellow exclamation point above her head.

Without my bosses giving me expectations, I'm just a quest dispenser and babysitter. And before anyone says to play a character and not a leader, take into consideration that one's character may be ambitious and requires a goal to proceed, and one's own subordinates may be the same way.

[a strange shadow]

I've recently been rotated to a totally different area of clans, and I'm still catching up on everything that's going on.  You can't expect new staff to immediately know everything that is going on in your clan as soon as they switch in.

In my eyes, this is the perfect argument against staff rotation. I know you guys aren't trying to screw anyone over; I realize the challenges inherent in staffing over a playerbase that can act like a herd of insane tregils, and the complications which arise when trying to respect and work with established characters, especially if they are long-standing and multi-faceted - I realize that. That is why I think rotation should happen less often.

Consider that when you finally do get a handle on your "clan area" - it'll be time to move on. Does that feel conducive to efficiency? Armagedon's documentation and storylines are rich and deep, and the clans and the characters who populate them are no exception. Tackling an entire area of clans, learning them well enough to take them over with confidence, and then moving on in a mere six months seems highly unrealistic. It's a classic case of trying to stuff too much knowledge and learning into too short of a time, especially when considering that Armageddon is a hobby.

Perhaps this view is because I am more of a "long-haul" sort, but it's one that I think is legitimate and tempered with experiencing these situations over and over. I like situations that are rich, deep, and believable, and it's hard to accomplish that with only surface knowledge.

[Niamh]

To answer Reiloth's question about NPCs:  I do my best to take that into consideration, to try to find out before animating a "boss" NPC what this NPC is like.  The NPCs that I've built myself for various things all have a little something about their personalities in their backgrounds - something I did to help out any other staff who would be animating them to know what they're like, and hopefully to help keep consistency among how the NPCs are roleplayed.  As a player, I found it frustrating and jarring to have an NPC (especially a "boss" type) suddenly acting differently than they were before, so as staff, I try not to let that happen if I can help it.

In response to ASS:  I have been rotated twice since I came on staff a little over a year ago, and the only areas I didn't have to play catch-up in when I switched were independents, because they aren't a clan in the same sense, and Bards, because I didn't rotate away from them during the first changeover.   I can't speak for other staff,  but I personally would rather pick one group and stick with it, because it would help keep consistency and such.