Changes to staffing - animation and storytelling: Discussion thread.

[Agent_137]

this whole player driven clan thing didn't really work out for CAM. I hope with more oversight from immortals such a lack of PC leaders can be remedied quickly instead of left to stagnate. If its mostly going to be up to PC leaders, there needs to be plans for when they don't do their job/don't login, etc.

(don't get me wrong, if they are a bad leader ICly that's great. it can be dealt with ICly. but for AFK pc leaders? ones on haitus? clans with lots of folks but no one with the time to be leader? what then?)

[Lizzie]

Along with the concern of the above post, is the concern about clans with leaders who are lower-ranking leaders. Their clan docs are pretty clear that they don't have as much authority to do certain things, therefore pretty much requiring the IC presence of their clan superior NPCs at least "often" if not "regularly."

In other words, clan leader PCs need someone IC to report to, unless they are high enough ranking that they are authorized to make House-wide decisions on their own. Joe Junior Nenyuk Agent in Allanak probably doesn't have the authority to agree to giving Muk Utep's Legionairres a permanent 10% discount on all their housing needs in Tuluk. But Sue Senior Nenyuk Agent probably does.

[Nyr]

Being a good leader starts with reading The Prince logging in, and ends with not being a douche.

ftfy

I think it's possible to be a good leader and be a douche.

[Yokunama]

I hope with more oversight from immortals such a lack of PC leaders can be remedied quickly instead of left to stagnate. If its mostly going to be up to PC leaders, there needs to be plans for when they don't do their job/don't login, etc.

This is also a concern of mine.

[Adhira]

Posted by: Agent_137 

this whole player driven clan thing didn't really work out for CAM. I hope with more oversight from immortals such a lack of PC leaders can be remedied quickly instead of left to stagnate. If its mostly going to be up to PC leaders, there needs to be plans for when they don't do their job/don't login, etc. 

Absolutely this could be an issue. I think this is something that needs to be realised. This is not just a change for staff, but for players too.  It may be that some clans do not work at certain times. That the lack of leadership causes people to move on, move out and so on.

Obviously staff are not going to just ignore the clans and give them no love or attention, but we are putting some responsibility for your fun back on you, the player.   There does needs to be plans for when a leader doesn't do their job or login, I suggest that much of that planning can be done ICly. There should be work done in game to flesh our ranks, have a chain of command, communicate goals and objectives etc. Staff can assist the way we do now, when we see a gap we put out a call to fill a role. We won't be assisting by loading up the boss and telling you all what to do, but you may find us there with that merchant who has orders that desperately require certain tasks, or that noble that throw some sid at the byn to get a job done.  We'll also make sure that there are ways to get around things such as requiring that leader to log in so you can be released instead of having to wait for that never appearing leader.

The staffing change is also a reflection of our move towards Armageddon 2 where there will be less of the virtual and many clans or towns will rise and fall based on the actions of their players. I hope that this will work, this game is about the players and one bit of feedback we often receive is that the players want to be more central to the story, and that they want to make their stories work, not just fill out the rank and file of some huge unending plotline. This is an experiment, and we will be assessing it, and we will be asking players for feedback along the way.

[Mood]

Being a good leader starts with reading The Prince logging in, and ends with not being a douche.

ftfy

I think it's possible to be a good leader and be a douche.

[SMuz]

The staffing change is also a reflection of our move towards Armageddon 2 where there will be less of the virtual and many clans or towns will rise and fall based on the actions of their players. I hope that this will work, this game is about the players and one bit of feedback we often receive is that the players want to be more central to the story, and that they want to make their stories work, not just fill out the rank and file of some huge unending plotline. This is an experiment, and we will be assessing it, and we will be asking players for feedback along the way.

That sounds.. awesome. A game where the whole world moves along to player actions would be the game of my dreams.

[Ourla]

I'm amazed and grateful for how quickly I've seen this take effect IG.

[rishenko]

Not to tow the party line here, but I had a brief bit of interaction last night and though it consisted of only one emote and two other minor bits in the middle of nowhere, it -did- add a helluva lot more flavor to the happenings than what I'm used to. 

Please, keep that up.  Random or not so random animation of the surrounding world on a semi-regular basis would be cause for more personal glee than several hardcore, imm ran plots.

[Mood]

Out of general curiosity... is there a list of which staffers are assigned to which areas of the game?

[Clearsighted]

Being a good leader starts with reading The Prince logging in, and ends with not being a douche.

ftfy

I think it's possible to be a good leader and be a douche.

Definitely possible.

It depends on how much respect or fear they're able to wield, which serves well enough as an alternative.

[Archbaron]

Out of general curiosity... is there a list of which staffers are assigned to which areas of the game?

http://www.armageddon.org/general/staff.php

Sekret links are the bomb.

[Synthesis]

Yeah, I just about crapped my pants laughing at a certain Immstigated event earlier today.   

[Delstro]

What will the regulations be for Imms interacting with shady type characters? Will the Imms be restricted from reporting the actions of PCs that were not reported by the VNPC population? Will they have free reign to report any and all pick-pockets to the local PC militia and templars?

[Kassindra]

Thank youuuuu.

[Adhira]

What will the regulations be for Imms interacting with shady type characters? Will the Imms be restricted from reporting the actions of PCs that were not reported by the VNPC population? Will they have free reign to report any and all pick-pockets to the local PC militia and templars?

Staff will follow the same criteria that we have for them now, which is the same as applied to all characters 'shady' or not. I don't think this question applies to the new method of staffing.

[staggerlee]

It seems like a positive change to me, and I wish I had more time to play and check it out right now.

I do have a concern about the move to all player run content. It seems to me that the player base will never be enough to fully and consistently flesh out a population, everywhere at once.

If the staff are moving away from controlling their clans and leaving more power in the hands of players, won't that exaggerate the current fluctuations in the player base even more?  It makes sense to me that if Fale has no players for three months, the staff would still ensure that the organization continued virtually and was ready when players showed up, rinthers that decided to squat in the estate would be evicted, parties would still be (virtually) held, and during the council meetings they'd do whatever it is they do.

Placing all the power on players seems like it'd be really unstable and imbalanced. A large portion of the game is always going to be virtual, 40-90 players at peak simply can't flesh out an entire world.

That said... I can see the advantages too, and like I said, I wish I had more time to check it out.

[Decameron]

Few questions about this, still sort of iffy on it, myself.

"Staff will no longer be animating the 'big boss' and senior NPCs of the clans for report ins and general catch ups. When a player needs information from the higher ranks of the house this will, in general, be given via email. "

Wouldn't this necessarily destroy any suitable relationship from being formed between the character of that Merchant or Noble House with their own superior? One of the most interesting aspects of such a position, I felt, is being a part of a bigger organization, that there were things occurring within such an organization that my character lacked the control to manipulate or understand. This was generally shown in regard to a superior, who also provided as a primary example as what to do and what not to do. That individual achieved their rank for a reason, and provides at the very least an example to follow. I am not sure how well this is going to translate with individuals who never played Nobles or Merchant Families before, unless they are constantly being told what they're doing is wrong (when they are doing something wrong) in a 'letter' from their superior, which might lead to a negative approach to the role.

How much influence can a PC have before it's the cut-off point? Can a player still hope to gain one of those 'big boss positions' and keep their character without having to store?

What presently happens to on-going plots that were previously 'Imm-coordinated'? Are these now in the hands of the player, are they going to have some sort of conclusion, or is it now a clean-slate?

I am glad to read the comments regarding the Staff's random animation, and it's clear this is obviously having an impact, just a few questions that had been bugging me.

Thanks.

[Adhira]

It makes sense to me that if Fale has no players for three months, the staff would still ensure that the organization continued virtually and was ready when players showed up, rinthers that decided to squat in the estate would be evicted, parties would still be (virtually) held, and during the council meetings they'd do whatever it is they do.

I think I mentioned in the original post that the structures, houses and general makeup of society will remain. For instance though we dont' staff House Sath we always count it in to our factoring of Allanak society. Though House Nenyuk is closed for play if people want to rent property it's always House Nenyuk that the answer comes from, and we certainly would react if people were trying to take over that estate and make it their own.  The virtual world is still there, but the roleplay is focused at the level the players are at. If they escalate RP in a way that affects that next level up then staff will be there to react as appropriate.


How much influence can a PC have before it's the cut-off point? Can a player still hope to gain one of those 'big boss positions' and keep their character without having to store?

This is not something I can give a black and white, absolute answer on, there will be circumstances where promotion is possible. However, these kinds of promotion have to be assessed against the game world. This is no different to now, we make those assessments when looking at promotions. Sometimes it can be detrimental to player and the game world to let them rise too far. Certain roles carry great restrictions, these restrictions would mean that a player is effectively left without any RP.

What presently happens to on-going plots that were previously 'Imm-coordinated'? Are these now in the hands of the player, are they going to have some sort of conclusion, or is it now a clean-slate?
As I mentioned there is still a need for the staff to have an overview of the world and a sense of direction, purpose and theme. Plots that have been ongoing will not just suddenly cease to exist. What the players are doing with these will be a major factor. There's no point a storyteller having a plotline set up if no one is interested in playing it, and they'd rather do something else. We will always, however, be making sure that stories progress and succeed or fail in a way that makes sense for the gameworld.

You mentioned the example that superiors gave other players - there will still be these examples. The superiors aren't just going to disappear, but yes, it is likely that the sponsored role players may see less of these npc than they used to. Instead our time is going to be spread around more. We think there are other ways for people to see role models within their clans, and we are hoping to show that through different types of animations.  I acknowledge that the senior npc is often a great moment, but sometimes, somethings got to give. I'm hoping that we can manage to get the balance right.

[Lizzie]

I was -already- seeing less of the clan NPC superior, before these changes were made. I really REALLY miss those interactions and due to the nature of my role in the clan, would be extremely disappointed if this resulted in my only "higher up" interaction be relegated to e-mail, and not game play.

I know that I won't be spending -more- time e-mailing. I already do plenty of that, and I'm not playing Armageddon: The E-mail Game.

This is just leaving me with a very uncomfortable feeling right now.

[Adhira]

I know that the NPC superior interactions are going to be missed. The fact of the matter is that not only was a large amount of staff time spent animating these seniors for a small group, a lot of what happened in these animations were in fact things that had already been covered in emails. So, we may still animate those seniors, but we won't be spending 2 hours going over ground that is already known.

We also need to make sure that we share the love. Both on behalf of players, and staff. We want to make sure that staff are able to use their time to effect the game in the best way possible. At the same time we want to make sure that staff are able to have fun. Sometimes that fun may be animating the NPC senior for you, but more often than not it's going to be playing another type of role.

Finally, what we notice is that many players rely on their NPC seniors to direct their play. Part of this is because in the past we may have used the seniors to do this. We want players to choose their own direction, we don't want them sitting around waiting for 3 weeks, a month, sometimes longer to get that animation so they can finally get something signed off and do something. It is far more efficient for us to send an IC answer via email to many things, than to try and schedule in the animation time to get things done.

I understand that you don't wish to play the email game, we're not asking you to spend more time emailing. We're asking that you understand when you say "I need to ask my NPC senior how much sid I should exchange for a cart load of dung" we're going to reply to that via email, rather than in game.

[Marauder Moe]

Hurrah!

Waiting for staff/player playtimes to line up so I can tell/ask my NPC superior something that I've already emailed the staff I was going to tell/ask them was probably the single most frustrating aspect of clan PC life for me.

Also love the idea that we'll see more animations of lower-level NPCs.  I feel that far too often clan players forget to consider their virtual peers as much as their NPC superiors.  I think having animated junior nobles, aides of virtual nobles, maids, slaves, members of other guard/soldier/hunter units, etc pop up will help people get a better feel for the virtual world around them.

[Boggis]

Waiting for staff/player playtimes to line up so I can tell/ask my NPC superior something that I've already emailed the staff I was going to tell/ask them was probably the single most frustrating aspect of clan PC life for me.

Quadruple this for off-peakers. I've played a noble, Templar, Byn Sarge and Guild boss and in each of those roles I was lucky to get 1 NPC superior animation a month. Not knocking the staff but that's just the way things went due to conflicting playtimes. It was quite frustrating sometimes to get the go-ahead for certain things and more often that not I'd wind up agreeing a course of action over email in the end after much wasted time and effort on both sides. I much prefer the change of focus as outlined above.

[Semper]

It's a good move by the staff. While it may not be the best thing for -all- players (as some have brought up), I think this'll improve the gameplay overall, which, IMO is the better alternative.

It's just a matter of time and seeing the results of this.
GL to you leaders for the plots you generate for the near future. We haven't had a real HRPT in a while now. 

[mansa]

...Staff instead will be concentrating on facilitating the stories that players are creating. The overall goal is that gameplay happens at a level that is accessible to players, allowing them to feel a very real part of the action.

Another goal with the change is to move the focus of Storytellers from the administrative side of running clans, to the story oriented side. With a Highlord in charge of each group we hope that much of the admin work can be relieved and with dedicated HL's for each group decisions can get sign off at the team level.

The overall aim of this is to see STs out there animating every day, because they –want- to, to see plots and stories that reflect what players are interested in and want to achieve and staff supporting what you all are doing.

I guess I have the question as to how much will the world change, along with the stories that are created.

If someone has an idea to "burn" a tavern down, can we?
If someone wants to create a shop, can we?

But, more than just yes and no, what I would really enjoy is examples as to how the immortal staff would like us to go through with our stories and plots that we create.

I would really like concrete, step-by-step instructions, because I'm kinda slow.  I would give my forever thanks if some "correct procedure" as to how to make these plots come alive within the game world.  These are some examples that I had:

- a plot of a creation of a hunting clan, with a storehouse and NPC guards
- a plot of a creation of a new shop, with an NPC seller.
- a plot of a destruction of a current shop or building

I do realize there are many many ways to go about creating this sort of things, and some ways are more productive than others.  Since the focus is shifted to the storylines that the players create, how do we, as players, best go about to create these stories.  I'm really just looking for a simpler, step-by-step instructions, both In-Game and Out-Of-Game, so I can follow them in a directed way to be more productive along with the staff, rather than against what the staff wish to see happen with the creation of room objects / npcs / items.

Sorry if I'm confusing.